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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Lambic/Turbid Mash ("Chad Stevens")
  Sophistication in tasting (Michael Hartsock)
  Sophistication (AJ)
  re: unconverted starch for a lambic (Steve Piatz)
  Czech ingredients? (Ralph W Davis)
  Re: Side-effects of Taste Sophistication (Robert Sandefer)
  RE: Side-Effects of Taste Sophistication? ("Don Price")
  Food Network Special - The Great American Beer Festival (abarletta)


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Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:03:47 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: Lambic/Turbid Mash

I just did 25 gallons of lambic on Tuesday.  I did a modified turbid mash in
two separate mashes/boils.  The total grain bill was:

30 lbs Briess two row
20 lbs soft red summer wheat (Briess pre-gelatinized)
8 oz Sour Malt
2 lbs hard red winter wheat (ground to flour and gelatinized for 30 min)


So to 25 lbs of grain I added 4 gallons at 125 = 113 rest for ten minutes
(very thick like concrete).  then 6 qts boiling adjunct = 122 protein rest
for ten minutes.  Then 4 gallons at 180 = 148-152 for 30 min.  This
completely filled my big rectangular cooler.  As soon as I added the last
fill, I drained four gallons of turbid liquor and heated to 176 then
returned = 161 for 30 min.  If you really want starch in your final wort,
you could save a portion of that first liquor runoff for the final boil, it
is quite turbid.  I didn't bother.  Some people just add a little flour to
the boil, again, I didn't bother.  I plan on drinking most of this batch as
a Faro in the spring so I wasn't that concerned about having a bunch of
residual starch.

This is a new style for me as well, but this regimin seemed to work out
reasonably well.  The nice thing about doing the split batch is, what you
mess up in the first half, you can compensate for in the second half.  My
temps were a little too low the first time around (too much dwell time below
148) so I made sure I had plenty of higher sugars the second time around
(made sure I got from the 122 range to above 148 as rapidly as possible).

Having read up on turbid mashes a little bit, this was the best
approximation I could come up with on my setup and it seemed to work
reasonably well.  It was a fourteen hour day however, and I can't vouch for
the authenticity of the results.  Time will tell.

Good luck,

Chad Stevens
San Diego



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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: Sophistication in tasting

Alex asked whether brewing has made it harder for
others to appreciate average beer.

I have to say that it does, but I'm glad it did. 
Sadly, before I started brewing, I thought amberbock
was good beer!  What was I thinking!

The good thing is that if my beers meet my standards,
my friends won't be able to detect any defects.

The problem is that many of my friends percieve what I
see to be a beer's quality as a defect!  Its suprising
how many people who drink beer don't like hops and
don't like yeasty flavors in a weizen!

Mike,
Columbia, MO

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 13:25:49 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Sophistication

Those who know me will probably be thinking that sophistication is not 
one of the first words that springs to mind when my name appears  but, 
nonetheless, I press on. I found Alexandre's comments very interesting 
because yes, not only does being  attuned to beer spoil one's ability to 
enjoy a mediocre beer, it can spoil one's enjoyment of any beer. The 
likes of the membership here generally cannot just drink the beer - it 
must be  sniffed, tasted carefully, analyzed, retasted, reanalyzed and 
then discussed. I remember an incident in a brew pub in Boulder (can't 
remember which one - the brewing stuff is on a sort of mezzanine above 
the bar) in which a guy on an adjacent stool asked us to please shut up 
with words to the effect that it's just a beer - dammit. And I thought 
the musical analogue interesting too - can't listen without straining to 
see of that's really the Dorian mode you're hearing or was that a 
Picardian tierce  so you have to jump up and go get the score to see. 
Advanced amateur photographers analyze the lighting, composition, 
perspective... of magazine photo or movie/TV frame they see. Etc.

At the same time, of course, those who have experienced what Alexandre 
is describing know that such things can also greatly enhance one's 
enjoyment of a good beer. Not only do you know that it's good but you 
know why its good and can appreciate and admire the brewer's skill. And 
it's the same with music too and photography, cooking, macrame, stained 
glass window making, sports, poetry, breeding Schnausers - whatever you 
enjoy and are interested in.

Cheers, A.J.




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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:30:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve Piatz <piatz at cray.com>
Subject: re: unconverted starch for a lambic

Marc Sedam said:
> The easy answer is to drop a few ounces of wheat flour into the boil. 
> It's unconverted and will give you gelatinized starch in solution. 
> 6oz?  8oz?  1lb?  Don't really know the right amount but the concept 
> should work.

I added a cup or two of whole wheat flour to several extract based
lambics I made back in 1996.  I quit doing that after a discussion with
Frank Boon on his turbid mash process in 1997.  As I recall, Frank felt the
extensive turbid mash process would result in a clearer wort in the
kettle than a more "typical" mash process.  I do continue to make my
lambics with extract and some maltodextrin powder.  Being somewhat of a
lambic fanatic, I try to keep my nine lambic fermenters full at all
times.

- -- 
Steve Piatz in Eagan, MN


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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:48:38 -0400
From: Ralph W Davis <rdavis77 at erols.com>
Subject: Czech ingredients?

Since St. Pats of Tex is discontinuing selling brewing ingredients 
(they're still carrying equipment) and they had some terrific malt, 
hops, DME, malt extract, etc,  imported directly from the Czech 
Republic, does anyone out there know of any other suppliers taking up 
the slack?  As far as I know St. Pats was the only US supplier who 
carried Czech stuff, even carrying Budvar undermodified malt---and I 
made some very tasty brews from Moravian malt and Bohemian hops...  Best 
catalog out there too--very sad the O'Conners are getting out of  brew 
ingredients supply.  Anyway, you folks know of other places with Czech 
ingredients?



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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 13:45:53 -0400
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
Subject: Re: Side-effects of Taste Sophistication

The urge to evaluate/critisize my own beers can become a problem, but 
generally I can "force" myself to evaluate the whole (good, bad, enjoyable, 
not) rather than the parts (body, carbonation, color, etc).

In school, I had the same problem with music; I had to force myself to 
listen to the over all effect of a live band/group.

Robert
Arlington, VA



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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:28:10 -0400
From: "Don Price" <dprice1 at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Side-Effects of Taste Sophistication?

The side effects of homebrewing are terrible and the nightmare of living in
the beer-culturally deprived environs of Tampa Florida only makes it worse.
I now find myself asking questions like "What beer do you have that I can't
get at 7-11?" when I go out to eat.  I gave up on "what do you have?" after
realizing that most of the wait staff can't remember anything past the most
common 6 or 8 mega-swills and mega-swill lights. I know they have Bud & Bud
Light...but at least it is dependable.  Worst of all was a recent trip to a
suburban pseudo-Irish Pub.  The Bass tasted of diacetyl, the Newcastle was
skunked, the Pilsner Urquell was stale/oxidized, and the Hoegarden was
uninspiring.  Good thing I stuck one of my underlings with most of the bill.
Was the beer that bad?  I'm not sure but I'm really getting used to my
homebrew after 100 or so batches.  Tonight I'll try to detour by the brewpub
(no megaswill!) before the comedy club which is sure to be an evening of
over-priced mega-swill.  Better get the starter started...

Don




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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 17:45:58 -0700
From: abarletta at mgm.com
Subject: Food Network Special - The Great American Beer Festival

Of interest from FoodNetwork.com:


 "Join us for the country's biggest celebration of all things ale - The
Great
 American Beer Festival.  We follow 3 brewers as they travel to Denver, CO

 to put their beer against the best in hopes of winning a gold medal."


 Air times:

 Oct. 05, 2003  at  9PM ET/PT

 Oct. 06, 2003  at  1 AM ET/PT

 Oct. 11, 2003  at  4 PM ET/PT

 Oct. 12, 2003  at  5 PM ET/PT.

Tony Barletta
Los Angeles, CA




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