HOMEBREW Digest #4364 Fri 03 October 2003

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  Last Question-Dr. Cone 2003-mash hopping-Marc Sedam ("Rob Moline")
  Siebel Trends August 2003-The Styles Issue ("Rob Moline")
  RE: 99% beers use lager yeast ("Parker Dutro")
  RE Dane's simple solution ("Parker Dutro")
  Anchor Steam sludge ("Kevin Kutskill")
  Leo Vitt Subject: Difference between Ale and Lager ("Doug A Moller")
  Anchor Steam ("David Craft")
  It's not the FBI you should worry about! ("Paul Campbell")
  Pale Bock and AS Sludge (blutick)
  Rice Hulls ("A.J. deLange")
  Priming sugar ("Dave Burley")
  RE: Head Pressure Clarification (Jonathan Royce)
  An aside to the whole Texas definition thing... (Bev Blackwood II)
  priming sugar ("Charles Gee")
  unconverted starch for a lambic (Marc Sedam)
  re:  Handling the large volume of liquid in pLambic brew sessions (MOREY Dan)
  RE: brew pumps ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: difference between ale and lager ("Houseman, David L")
  Brewing with Tea (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Side-Effects of Taste Sophistication? (Alexandre Enkerli)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:47:17 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com> Subject: Last Question-Dr. Cone 2003-mash hopping-Marc Sedam Last Question-Dr. Cone 2003-mash hopping-Marc Sedam Folks, Wrapping up....this question was asked after the cut-off point and had nothing to do with yeast...... To wrap it up took more time, as I was trying to find an english brewer to comment.... and to date, no one was able to find any reference to the practice. Perhaps this subject needs more examination in other fora.... Dr. Cone, By virtue of a little experimentation, I stumbled across what may have been an older brewing process whereby the flavor and aroma hops are added to the MASH and not the copper. The resulting flavor seems to be more "full" and "smooth" when compared to regularly hopped batches of the same type. I also have seemed to notice that this phenomenon works best with soft water and/or with lighter beers. It shines in lagers, bitters, and IPAs, but seems to do little for porters and stouts. Do you know of anything in the literature which would suggest WHY this works? The flavor is similar to "first wort hopping" (the rediscovered German technique of adding flavor/aroma charges to the warm wort). Due to my observations on the water chemistry and beer styles, I'd suggest that pH may have a big role...but I am guessing. Cheers! marc Marc pH plays a role in hop utilization and flavour. The softer the water and the lower the pH the less isomerisation of alpha acids take place. Therefore you have a very low yield of hop utilization but a better aroma. That is why certain water qualities were good for certain beer styles. The very soft water of Pilzen produced nice hoppy Pils beer whereas the harder water in Dortmund was better for "export" beer. First wort hopping... I do not know any brewery in Germany that uses this technique, also none of my contacts at Weihenstephan and Doemens know a brewery that uses first wort hopping. In my opinion it does not make much sense. If you add the hop to the first wort you basically have hop in your wort from the beginning of the boil. This means that you have extensive isomerisation of your alpha acids which will result in a harsh bitterness. That is why you add the aroma hops at the end of your boil; you want the aroma compounds but not too much of the bitter compounds. Thank you Tobias The complete "Fortnight Of Yeast" can be found at http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/fortnightyeast.html Gump - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:52:17 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com> Subject: Siebel Trends August 2003-The Styles Issue Siebel Trends August 2003-The Styles Issue Folks, I am passing along this copy of the Siebel Trends Issue to allow yourself to be familiarized with it....subscribing is done at http://www.siebelinstitute.com/introduction/newsletter-signup.html Interestingly, the acknowledgement of the significance of the HB community is striking....and the reason for my forwarding to you.... Siebel Trends August 2003-The Styles Issue When the world's largest brewer releases an Irish-style stout and a European-style pilsner in the same year, you know the world brewing industry is paying attention to brewing styles. This issue of SiebelTrends takes a look at the new interest in styles, and some of the factors that have brought about this exciting trend. Beer Styles In The News In a recent edition of Brauwelt International, author Anders Kissmeyer of Copenhagen, Denmark wrote, "The U.S. Craft Brewing Industry today represents the strongest single beer culture anywhere in the world". Both the brewing media and mainstream publications are increasingly sharing such an opinion. Even the prestigious Wall Street Journal published a front-page article about the evolution of beer styles, focusing on how North American brewers are asking (and getting) previously unheard-of prices for "boutique" beers like Samuel Adams Utopia. While the U.S. builds momentum in new and unique styles development, Quebec has been quietly setting the pace in Canada's brewing community with it's rich interpretations of international styles, especially the traditional styles of Belgium. The evolution of styles is not isolated to North America. Belgian brewers continue to find new markets for their diverse and sometimes demanding styles, creating legions of new fans for differentiated beers. Bavarian wheat styles continue to win over drinkers (both domestic and international) looking for beers that are as refreshing as light lagers but with more flavor and aroma. The U.K. still sets the pace in cask and bottle-conditioned ales, styles that are being emulated around the globe, and Ireland builds on its legacy of providing some of the best ales in the world by introducing new brands of stouts, red ales and traditional varieties from the Emerald Isle. The brewing community is beginning to work together to take advantage of the upsurge in media coverage about styles by building interest in pairing of food and beer, similar to the way the wine community built interest in wine varieties by nurturing consumption of wine with specific foods. High-end restaurants are building theme nights around beer, and several new books are creating an "upscale" image for beer & dining, including renowned brewer Garrett Oliver's beautiful publication "The Brewmasters Table". Brewing Competitions Gain Importance Twenty-five years ago, you would be hard-pressed to name three commercial brewing competitions. Today, every major brewing community holds a competition or two to find the best ales, lagers and specialty beers in their region or from around the world. Breweries know the value of a successful competition entry to their bottom line: A gold medal from a major competition can increase sales in existing markets and open doors to new ones. Where there once were only a handful of beer styles to be judged in competitions, there are now dozens. World Beer Cup, one of the world's biggest international contests, now lists over 100 categories or sub-categories of beer, including 30 American, 18 German, 14 Belgian and 22 British & Scottish beer styles. Brewers need more extensive technical training to meet the "style benchmarks" in these intense competitions, and those who consistently produce winning recipes reap financial rewards for their breweries. Some breweries have been so successful at creating a new beer experience that their names are practically synonymous with new beer styles: Sierra Nevada (American Pale Ale), Widmer (American-Style Hefeweizen), and Rogue (Imperial or Double India Pale Ale) are not only the standard bearers for these styles, they are also among the fastest growing regional breweries in the U.S. Homebrewing Ramps Up Much of the resurrection of styles can be directly attributed to the zealous enthusiasm of the homebrewing community. Homebrewers are the heart and soul of the brewing arts, working to reestablish forgotten styles while pushing the artistic limits of existing ones. Homebrewers tend to be the first consumers to try new varieties of beer, looking for new ideas to create recipes. Where once homebrewers created their beer from inferior malt extract and baker's yeast, the homebrewing community is now one of the most sophisticated sections of the brewing industry. Homebrewing clubs have flourished with the spread of the Internet, allowing brewers to move beyond simply sharing recipes to sharing some of the most advanced technical issues in brewing. One service, the Homebrew Digest, uses and "internet forum" format to allow brewers to post questions about the most technical aspects of brewing, which are answered by other brewers (both amateur and professional) with an incredible degree of depth and accuracy. Even the ingredients and equipment used by homebrewers has moved beyond extract in the stovetop kettle and plastic bucket fermenters. Homebrew supply stores carry a dizzying array of malts, hops, yeast, and specialty ingredients, allowing brewers to emulate any commercially produced beer. Companies like Beer, Beer, and More Beer now produce homebrewing equipment that allows brewers to emulate commercial brewing environments on a personal brewing level. Homebrewers can now buy items like a 24-gallon stainless steel, jacketed, temperature-controlled conical fermenter for home (or commercial brewery) use for about the price of a moderately-sized projection television. As today's homebrewers take advantage of the information sharing and technological developments in their hobby, they will lever their enthusiasm to continue to "push the envelope" of styles in the years to come. NEW! Siebel Institute of Technology Master of Beer Styles & Evaluation Program Chicago Campus Nov.10 - 14, 2003 The Siebel Institute Master of Beer Styles & Evaluation program is designed to give professional brewers the skills they need to formulate, brew, and evaluate gold-medal beer recipes. The Master of Beer Styles & Evaluation program is composed of three Siebel Institute courses: Sensory Analysis for Flavor Production & Control Master of Beer Styles Course Beer Judging Workshop Students can take each of the above three courses separately. Students completing the program will be issued a Master of Beer Styles & Evaluation certificate.The Master Of Beer Styles andthe Beer Judging Workshop are designed and taught by two of America's best known style experts: Ray Daniels and Randy Mosher. This promises to be one of our most popular courses ever, so register soon to secure your place in the 2003 course. You can get complete information on the Master of Beer Styles & Evaluation program on our web site at http://www.siebelinstitute.com/course_desc/master_styles.html. Siebel Institute of Technology 1777 North Clybourn Avenue Suite 2F Chicago, IL. 60614-5520 U.S.A. Phone 312-255-0705 Fax 312-255-1312 E-Mail: info at siebelinstitute.com Web: www.siebelinstitute.com Further, I have learned that brewers can get a 500$ discount to the Tour Course and a 200$ discount to the Daniels/Mosher course, merely by being subscribers! Cheers! Gump "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:20:50 -0700 From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: RE: 99% beers use lager yeast Huh? I frequent a few microbreweries that use Ale yeast in all their ales and lager yeast in all their lagers. Typically, the ratio is 5:1 ales/lagers. Lager yeast imparts unwanted (icky) flavors when fermented at most ale temps. (With the exception of new warmer fermenting lager yeast) And most ale yeasts will go dormant at lager temps. To lager is to store. The term lager is being applied to beers brewed with yeast strains of the 'Saccharomyeces Uvarum' family. These yeast live and work in a cooler temp range. They work slower and are "stored" longer, typically at temps just above freezing. Ale yeast is in the 'Saccharomyces cerevisiae' family. They live and work in warmer temps and therefore tend to do there jobs faster. That's the short version. Hope it helps. Parker Dutro "To every man, in his acquaintance with a new art, there comes a moment when that which before was meaningless first lifts, as it were, one corner of the curtain that hides its mystery, and reveals, in a burst of delight which later and fuller understanding can hardly ever equal, one glimpse of the indefinite possibilities within." C. S. Lewis Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:20:50 -0700 From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: RE Dane's simple solution Dane, you give the most down to earth answer. Though I can think of a few reasons to hate this answer, it's the simplest. Dane wrote: >Have you checked >your dictionary for definitions of lager? Mine says >it is any beer stored for several months. Aha! That >could be applied to any beer. Doh! That makes sense to me. "To every man, in his acquaintance with a new art, there comes a moment when that which before was meaningless first lifts, as it were, one corner of the curtain that hides its mystery, and reveals, in a burst of delight which later and fuller understanding can hardly ever equal, one glimpse of the indefinite possibilities within." C. S. Lewis Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:36:46 -0400 From: "Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek at comcast.net> Subject: Anchor Steam sludge Peter Flint Jr. had a question about some Anchor Steam that he had in the back of his fridge for close to a year, and had some sludge at the bottom of the bottle. What you are probably looking at is some protein that has precipitated out and settled at the bottom of the bottle. For those beers that are not bottle conditioned, it is a sign that the beer is well past its "best before" date, even if there isn't a "best before" date on the bottle. If you see that "sludge" in bottles that are for sale at the store, don't buy it. You will get exactly what you experienced at home with this Anchor Steam--a beer with flavors that shouldn't be there, and you are not tasting the beer at its best. Kevin Kutskill Clinton Township, MI beer-geek at comcast.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 05:55:18 -0500 From: "Doug A Moller" <damoller at intergate.com> Subject: Leo Vitt Subject: Difference between Ale and Lager "That doesn't really make beers like Paulaner Doppelbock an ale, but the labels I see in the USA have the word ale on them. " Actually that is exactly why they have it on the label. To conform to state laws. Doug A Moller Brewmaster Oklahoma Brewing Ltd Co brewmaster at intergate.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:06:56 -0400 From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net> Subject: Anchor Steam I took the tour a few years ago and remember it this way. The beer is krausened and naturally carbonated in tanks. It is then bottled in a carbonated state. The line was not running when we were there. As for filtering, I do not recall. Great beer, great tour! Brewing on, David Craft Greensboro, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:09:10 +0100 From: "Paul Campbell" <paulrcampbell at blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: It's not the FBI you should worry about! There is a news story at http://www.telegraph.co.uk which may be of amusement regarding the "threat" of WMDs. Just search for 'distillery of mass destruction' (the URL is too long to post). Note that the DTRA was set up to provide a valuable service, and I'm not knocking them, it's just a funny story....... Paul, Dundee, Scotland. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:47:32 -0500 From: blutick at juno.com Subject: Pale Bock and AS Sludge >Witness the goofiness when Celis Brewing (RIP) sold a "bock". >Remember Celis Pale Bock? Celis' decision to call that beer "bock" was a marketing decision and had nothing to do with goofy Texas alcohol laws. They were taking advantage of consumer's natural association of the word "bock" with a well known, established regional beer - Shiner Bock. We, of course, know that neither beer fits our definition of a bock. So what? Breweries frequently misuse style identifiers in an effort to sell their beer. > I poured out a bottle of Anchor Steam recently that I had in the back of my fridge for close to a year. When I got to the bottom, a bit of what looked like yeast sludge dribbled out as well. My guess is that the sludge was precipitated protein. I've seen this in lots of Belgian ales that have been on the shelf too long. Jim Layton Howe, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:52:28 +0000 From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: Rice Hulls Dane Mosher's comment on rice hulls caught my eye. Since they do nothing for the beer until lauter I don't put them in until just before transfer to the lauter tun. The mash is thin at that point (from infusions along the way) and they just mix right in. This exposes them to a minimum of mechanical disturbance so that they go to do their job with a little or no damage. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:07:41 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Priming sugar Brewsters: Robert Sandefer asks why not use sucrose rather than dextrose/fructose for priming? Answer is: it doesn't make any difference since sucrose is turned into dextrose ( glucose) and fructose by the external invertase generated by the yeast before it uses it. There is a prejudice about using table sugar ( sucrose) in beer making because it was presumed a cidery taste would be generated if you used it. This stems from the Prohibition days when the amount of malt extract was low, relatively, and sanitation wasn't all it should be. It also was likely encouraged by homebrew stores to boost sales. No need to make invert sugar either for the above reason and the acid used for this "dries" out the beer if left unneutralized. I have never had a problem using sucrose for priming. There is some idea that this inversion is a slow step amd will reduce the rate of carbonation. I have never seen such an effect but I have seen situations where users did not have a good mixture of sucrose and the beer at priming and the sugar was not available for priming. I always make up a syrup of the sucrose in 4 vol oz of water to 8 wt oz of sugar and then one volume oz of the syrup equals 1 wt ounce of sugar. I often dilute this into cool boiled water so that I can easily measure the appropriate volume into each bottle using a pipette or a measuring spoon. Sounds tedious but it takes less time than washing and sterilizing a bottling bucket, adding the beer into and out of it and then washing the bucket again. I believe there is no need to use a "bottling bucket" as this just mixes in more air ( a very bad thing) and likely you will not get a perfect mix, so your bottles will be inconsistently carbonated. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:18:08 -0700 From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com> Subject: RE: Head Pressure Clarification James Ray wrote with much clarity: "I think that what Todd Ashmann was getting at was that top pressure is better than the alternative and the norm in most breweries and that is bottom pressure through a carbonating stone. I think that the stone could stir up the fermenter and prevent the yeast from clearing as quickly as with top pressure." Which I read and thought, "D'oh!" After reading James' post, I have more faith then ever in Ocham's Razor. Thanks James. (It was a good discussion nonetheless, although I'm not sure I'll spend the effort on doing a lab experiment with turbidimeters now.) Jonathan Woodbury Brewing Co. www.woodburybrewingco.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:22:07 -0500 From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com> Subject: An aside to the whole Texas definition thing... It was interesting to note that in a conversation with Fritz Maytag, he noted that they (Anchor) had to do a special bottling run for Texas because of the whole definition issue. Anchor Steam Beer apparently can't be called "beer" due to it's alcohol content, so they call it simply "Anchor Steam" on the labels and tap handles. They aren't the only ones affected of course... Samuel Adams allegedly couldn't call their Cream Stout a "stout" because it wasn't alcoholic enough! (That second one I'm not as sure about, but it's a bit of Texas beer lore, so what the hey...) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:23:54 -0700 From: "Charles Gee" <cgee at mhtv.ca> Subject: priming sugar Always have used sugar myself which is half glucose half fructose. I like to age my brew for a month or so before bottling so I always add a fresh packet of ale yeast rehydrated of course to the priming solution of sugar about a cup to 5 real gallons dissolved in some water. Just to be sure there enough little yeasties around to do the job works for me. Charles Haida Gwaii, British Columbia. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:26:39 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: unconverted starch for a lambic The easy answer is to drop a few ounces of wheat flour into the boil. It's unconverted and will give you gelatinized starch in solution. 6oz? 8oz? 1lb? Don't really know the right amount but the concept should work. - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:32:50 -0500 From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com> Subject: re: Handling the large volume of liquid in pLambic brew sessions Dave asks about pLambic brewing: >I'm gearing up to do a batch of pLambic. In my usual 'collection of >background and procedure' stage, I've found 2 methods that interest me most: >the Cantillon Modified Turbid Mash and the Boon Modified Turbid Mash. Both >methods are in the Brewing Techniques 3-part article on making Lambics at >home. Problem is, both methods produce a huge pre-boil volume (9 gallons >pre-boil to yield 5 gallons to the fermenter). I had hoped to make 8-10 >gallons due to the time invested, but I can't handle an 18 gallon boil with >my setup. >1. How does everyone else handle this problem? Do two boils? ?? >or Based on an initial boil volume of 9 gallons for 5 gallon yield, I suspect this is for a three hour boil. My normal evaporation loss is 1.35 gallons per hour. Normally, I boil only two hours for this style which reduces the starting volume. Also, boil off is not proportional to batch size, rather is directly related to you boil time. For a three hour boil assume 4 gallon loss, same as for 5 gallons. Thus you will need to collect 12-14 gallons rather than 18 gallons for your desired final volume. >2. Has anyone used a different procedure to get around the large volume >problem? How do you ensure that you are getting some unconverted starch >into the fermenter? See above. I use short mash steps around 15 minutes each in length. Keep the mash thin to dilute the enzymes. For mash out, bring the entire mash to a boil. Sparge with 200F water. I have a paper I presented on Belgian ales which included information on Lambic brewing. When we restore the information on the BABBLE website (currently being rebuilt), I will pass along the link. Dan Morey Club B.A.B.B.L.E. http://hbd.org/babble [213.1, 271.5] mi Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:39:19 -0400 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: RE: brew pumps It's been discussed here in the past but not recently, but since Moving Brews is no more, don't forget to look at Granger. They are in many communities throughout the US and do have a web site and mail order. They don't sell to individuals, only to companies, but I've found that just about anything qualifies and they took my personal credit card. I bought my pump, Teel? or Mach?, from them for my system, as well as a number of other parts including components to motorize my mill. Great prices. NAYYY. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:39:20 -0400 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Re: difference between ale and lager Yes it's the yeast, and in some jurisdictions the legal definition. But yep, some lager styles are made with ale yeast and some ale styles are made with lager yeast. A neutral, clean fermenting ale yeast fermented at relatively cool temperatures will result in few esters so that the resulting beer will pass as lager. Similarly, lager yeast fermented at relatively higher temperatures will yield some esters and the resulting beer will pass as an ale. Yuengling makes their Porter with lager yeast. The real difference, IMHO, between ale and lager isn't just the yeast used but how the beer if fermented and subsequently handled (as in lagered). The resulting "cleanness" of the beer, as in the presence or lack of esters, is a key defining difference between an ale and a lager. Ignore the various strange laws but don't get hung up on bottom or top fermentation either. Which yeast is used is important but it's the resulting beer profile that is the most important, IMHO. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:03:09 -0400 From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu> Subject: Brewing with Tea Well, I'm more a coffee drinker (the strong homeroasted moka pot brewed type you can stick a spoon in) than a tea drinker but I've been thinking about brewing something with tea for a while. One of the first inspirations was the idea of a hop tea to add to a boil. Then thought about different herbs recently (and brewed a first hopped herb beer) and thought about tea as an option. After all, tea's cheap and can be quite aromatic. There's been something about tea recently when talking about caffeine in beer but I'd be interested in more detailed info on how an actual batch went. For instance, how do you solve the tannin problem? Add it while chilling? Prepare tea on the side and mix it in the boiling wort? Maintain your wort at 194F after boil? Then, what kind of tea do you use? Gunpowder Green? Oolong? Earl Grey? Orange Pekoe? Alex, in Montreal [555.1km, 62.8] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:09:14 -0400 From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu> Subject: Side-Effects of Taste Sophistication? Hello again, Did anyone here ever have the problem of not being able to enjoy a merely decent beer because of increased sophistication in tasting? Brewing does enable you to improve your taste but doesn't it have the side-effect of making you too critical of even your own beer? There's something similar in any art. Part of it is simple self-criticism but there's also the fact that the quest for improvement leaves little room for "merely enjoyable"... In classical music, those who have the capability to finely distinguish slight variations in tuning based on absolutely frequency (so-called "perfect pitch") often have problems listening to music that is slightly out of tune but has other qualities. Oversensitivity to, say, oxydation, would similarly be a problem for some brewers, no? Just a thought. But related to anecdotal evidence... Alex, in Montreal [555.1km, 62.8] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
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