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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  What Gravity to use for IBU Calculations (John Palmer)
  re: Decoction Gone Bad (Dane Mosher)
  Beer in Restaurants- Corkage ("Don Van Valkenburg")
  Re: Flax Seed in Beer (Todd Goodman)
  Re:  Brewers yeast,  dogs ("Houseman, David L")
  Racking to secondary ("Dave Burley")
  What is Bad Beer? (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
  Decoction (MOREY Dan)
  Re: Insurance and CO2 Cylinders? (Kevin Wagner)
  Re: Insurance and CO2 Cylinders? ("Kent Fletcher")
  beer in restaurants ("dave holt")
  BREWERS YEAST, DOGS ("Mike Racette")
  Beer at Restaurants ("Lee and Ant Hayes")
  Beano Beer ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  Re: Three pounds of Flax ("-S")
  Three pounds of Flax ("Chad Stevens")
  Low Efficiency=High Flavour? (Grant Family)
  re: Decoction Gone Bad (Leo Vitt)
  What's on Tap? (Alexandre Enkerli)
  pumps ("Patrick Hughes")
  Re: Asking for craftbrew (Kent Fletcher)


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Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:54:57 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at altrionet.com>
Subject: What Gravity to use for IBU Calculations

I just got back from Northern California Homebrewers Festival in 
Dobbins, CA, northeast of Marysville, which is about 40 minutes north 
of Sacramento. What a great time! Thanks to all the clubs for their 
hospitality and really good homebrews. And the 6 course Cajun dinner. 
And the duckballs, can't forget the duckballs. yum.

***

In my book, my version of Tinseth's equation uses the initial boil 
gravity. Why? Because utilization is a function of boil time and wort 
concentration (ie. gravity). The higher the gravity, the lower the 
utilization. Thus, IMO, if you were to use the final gravity for the 
utilization calculation (mathematical model), you would potentially 
underestimate your final IBUs. If you use the average gravity of the 
boil, you theoretically would be closest to the actual number, but how 
many factors will you use to determine it. Will you use a weighted 
average of the total amount of hops, distributed over their various 
boil times and estimate the gravity at each of those times, based on 
the total evaporation? Is the evaporation rate linear?

Or, you can choose the initial boil gravity, and base your total 
bitterness calculation on the gravity at the time of (typically) the 
greatest bitterness addition, and potentially overestimate the amount 
of bitterness from later additions, which typically only make up a 
third of the total bitterness. Thus your anticipated error is reduced 
to a matter of a few IBUs.

This is the way I advocate doing it, and hopefully my rationale is 
fairly clear, but the other side of the coin is to always take brewing 
calculations with a grain or five of salt, since no one has ever proven 
that their model is correct to the exclusion of all others. We are just 
trying to choose a consistent way of getting our brewing into the same 
ballpark as other brewers with their own methods and equipment. It's a 
ballpark thing.

John Palmer
john at howtobrew.com
www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer
www.howtobrew.com - the free online book of homebrewing



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Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:08:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dane Mosher <dane_mosher at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Decoction Gone Bad

"I tried my first decoction mash and it did not go
very well." -- Dave Larsen

I bet those words have been said many times.  I'm sure
your beer will be okay though.

I don't know what's up with your stove, but as long as
the grain darkened in color, I think your decoction
was effective.  Gumminess is a definite sign of
successful decoction.  Runoffs are always tougher with
decoction.  It's even worse when wheat is involved. 
However extract efficiency should be much better.

I also undershot my temps when I first started
decocting.  My solution has been to pull 50% or more
of the thick mash for decoction.  I use a strainer and
keep pulling grain out until I have a hard time
filling it up anymore.  I'm probably pulling more like
60-70% of the grain.  I now hit the temperatures that
I want.

Hope this helps.

Dane Mosher
Fort Worth, TX



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Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:50:39 -0700
From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <Brewing at earthlink.net>
Subject: Beer in Restaurants- Corkage

Many of my friends call me a beer snob. Ok, I don't apologize - I do like
beer - so be it, and have but one simple, modest request when dining out in
nice restaurants; I would like a good beer with my food. Not that yellow
fizzy stuff, but something substantial, something with flavor. Unfortunately
the availability of good selections of quality beer in high-end restaurants
is dismal, mostly mass-produced beer -the beer equivalent of cheep, bulk
wine.

But, there is a solution: Corkage.

My solution is BYOB. Yep, I bring my own. The industry term for this is
corkage. This is perfectly legal and most better restaurants do allow you to
bring your own bottle. Corkage is where the restaurant will literally pull
the cork for you and provides the glassware and ice if necessary. Of course
restaurants can and usually do charge for this service, and the charge can
vary considerably (usually more than I pay for the bottle), so ask first.
But after thinking about it, most responded favorably, and about half the
time I am not charged.

Some may not want to pay an additional charge for simply opening their beer,
but if you are passionate about beer and, like me, prefer beer to wine, it
is worth the cost.

Note; I am speaking here of higher end restaurants where a cheep bottle of
wine might start at $20 and the average is more like $50.

Suggestion of what to take: Don't take a 6-pack, take instead a nice looking
magnum or at least 750ml bottle with a cork. If you are going to be charged
a corkage it might as well be a magnum of Anchor Christmas or something of
equal merit.

Cheers,
Don




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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:30:32 -0400
From: Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net>
Subject: Re: Flax Seed in Beer

* In HBD #4367, Chad Stevens asks:
> Anyone else played with flax in their beer?

Isn't flax seed about 40+% oil by weight?

It seems like you'd have competing foam negative and foam positive
components.

It's the source of Linseed oil after all.

Of course, I'd be real interested to hear how it works out...

Todd


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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:52:11 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Re:  Brewers yeast,  dogs

Mike,

I won't flame you for giving beer to your dog...lord knows they deserve
it...but just what are you doing with the budlight that you have it around
to give dregs from the bottle to the dog?  ;-))

Dave Houseman



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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:38:05 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Racking to secondary

Brewsters,

Dane Mosher suggests that the best time to rack is after the yeast have
settled and that waiting longer than two weeks will run the risk of yeasty
autolyis flavors.

I have a different suggestion.  I rack after the major fermentation is
finished and thrown a deposit but while the beer is still yeasty.  The yeast
in the secondary is clean of organic material and a good quantity of starting
yeast for your next batch, so don't leave it behind, just leave behind the
organic stuff from the fermentation.

Frankly, I think this autolysis danger is far overdone.  I have held yeast at
the bottom of a naturally conditoned bottle for months and not noticed any
real problem, so two weeks is a little silly in my opinion.  Now this will
depend on things like temperature and perhaps the strain of S. cerevisiae, but
I wouldn't let avoiding autolysis be a guiding principle, especially since
many cold fermented beers may stay over the yeast for six weeks in a quality
lager production.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:24:20 -0400 
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: What is Bad Beer?

What is Bad Beer?

I read things like, "life is too short to drink bad beer".  
What is bad beer?  I know I've had bad beer before.  
At least I think it was bad beer.  Maybe it was GOOD 
beer and I just didn't like it.  Does a beer have to have 
a medal to keep it from being a bad beer?  If a beer has 
a medal, does it mean it is a good beer?

I read things like, "that beer won a medal at the GABF" 
and I think to myself, that must be a good beer.  It can't 
be a bad beer, it won a medal.  Then I look at the list of 
winners at the 2003 GABF and see that there are only 
190 beers that won medals.  Must be  there are only 
190 beers that are not bad beers.  Does that mean that 
the other 1765 entries are all bad beers?  Could a beer 
win a medal and still be a bad beer?  How can you 
give a medal to a beer, if it's bad?  Do bad athletes 
win medals?  Do bad soldiers get medals?

I read things like, "If I have to drink AB or Miller or 
Coors, I would just as soon have iced tea".  Is AB 
bad beer?  Does Miller make bad beer?  How about 
Coors?  AB won 6 medals at the 2003 GABF and 
Large Brewing Company of the year.  Miller won 
4 medals.  Big Coors didn't win any medals, but 
their Sandlot Brewery at Coors Field won 4 medals.  
Pabst also won 4 medals.  That's almost 10% of
the medals!!!

Beer is beer.  Some we like.  Some we don't like.  
If we don't like it, is it bad??  I don't think so!

We make the beer we drink!!
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, MI
(2.8, 103.6) rennerian
Where has Jeff been?  I haven't
 seen him in a while


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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:28:49 -0500 
From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com>
Subject: Decoction

Dave asks about decoction mashing:

> I tried my first decoction mash and it did not go very well. It was a
single
> decoction with steps at 140 and 160 degrees. I mashed in with 1.33 quarts
> pound at 11 lbs. I pulled about a gallon and a half of the thickest part
of
> the mash.
>
> The first problem: I heated and stirred but the thing never really came to
a 
> solid boil, even after over an hour on full heat on my stove.  It bubbled
a 
> bit here and there, but I would not call it a boil.  I kept adding a
little 
> boiling water because it just kept getting drier and drier.  After 75 
> minutes of that, I decided enough was enough and I infused it back into
the 
> main mash

I might be in the minority, but I believe the "thickest part rule" is not
justified.  First of all, I have never seen "thick" quantified in decoction
literature.  In my opinion 1 quart per pound is thick and is difficult to
work with even for a single infusion.  Usually people keep too little liquor
in their decoction.  It is the liquid that boils, not he grain.  There must
be enough liquid to keep the grain in suspension.

So here is my advice, keep the thickness between the main mash and decoction
as close as you can.  Stir the mash up to resuspend the grain and scoop out
what you need.  Yes, enzymes will be denatured in the decoction boil, but I
content there are plenty of enzymes left in the main mash.  On the opposite
process the "thin part" is removed and brought to a boil.  While there is
not complete conversion in the turbid mash, the conversion is still
significant.

Because you will lose water due to evaporation during the decoction boil,
you may want to start with a bit thinner mash such as 1.5 qt/lb.

> That is where the second problem occurred.  Instead of jumping up to 160 
> degrees it went to less than 150, going up 10 degrees instead of 20.  I
had 
> to add a ton of boiling water to bring up the temp.  However, my mash tun 
> filled up long before I ever hit 160 degrees.  I think it settled in at 
> about 157.  It was the most watery mash I've seen.

The beautiful thing about keep the liquid to grain ratio equal between the
main mash and the decoction, is it makes calculating the size of the
decoction mash easy because the specific heat of both mashes is the same.
As a result the decoction volume can be calculated from the desired
temperature change:

Mtotal = lbs_of_grain * (1 + (2.08 * thick_ratio)) = total mass of both
mashes (lbs).

where, thick_ratio is the ration of water to grain expressed as quarts per
pound.
       lbs_of_grain is the mass of total grain bill.

Mdec = Mtotal * (Ttarget - Tmm)/(Tboil - Tmm) = mass of the decoction in
pounds

where, Ttarget is the target temperature
       Tmm is the temperature of the main mash prior to adding the decoction
portion back.
       Tboil is the boiling temperature (212F).

To convert to volume measure, as it is easier to measure) use the following
approximation:

mash_density = (1 + (2.08 * thick_ratio)) / (0.093 + (thick_ratio/4)) =
density in lbs per gallon.

where 0.093 "fudge factor" to account for the volume of liquid in space
between the grain.

Vdec =  Mdec / mash_density = Decoction volume in gallons

> To make matters worse, the decoction made the mash really gummy.  I ended
up 
> with a nasty stuck sparge.

A decoction will result in a gummier mash.  Watch your grain bed depth and
sparge rates to avoid a stuck mash.

Dan Morey
Club B.A.B.B.L.E.  http://hbd.org/babble
[213.1, 271.5] mi



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Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:34:35 -0700
From: Kevin Wagner <kevin.wagner at watchmark.com>
Subject: Re: Insurance and CO2 Cylinders?

Bob Pelletier asks if his insurance co. can drop him if they found out
he has a CO2 tank in his home...

What is that 9oz tank rated at (1200psi?). My HPA 12oz tank fills at
3000psi. I was under the impression that normal tank pressure for
dispensing beverages is in the 700 PSI range. I don't do my own fills
because 1) the gear is expensive and 2) most operators won't let you
play on their fields. I'll bet the shop owner thinks you've got a high
pressure tank which, I don't know, maybe requires a rider on your
homeowners policy.

 -K


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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:39:57 -0700
From: "Kent Fletcher" <kfletcher at socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Insurance and CO2 Cylinders?

Bob Pelletier wrote:
> So this week end My bro in law and I bought CO2 powered paintball guns.
They
> come with tiny 9oz tanks. I figure no problem I can fill it from my 20#
> tanks at home. So I ask the paintball shop owner if he has the kit to fill
> the small gun tank from my big tanks. He said he won't sell them due to
> liability and that I shouldn't have the tanks in my house because my
> insurance co. can drop my policy if they found out.
> Does this make any sense?

The question of your insurer possibly terminating (or more likely not
renewing) your coverage is an interesting one.  I was not able to find any
listed exclusion regarding compressed gas cylinders in general in my policy
(FUEL tanks were specifically mentioned).  But the shop owner might have
given you the short answer: You can't fill your paintball cylinder with your
beer cylinder.  That is, you can't fill it with anything other than
compressed CO2 gas.  Your beer tank doesn't have a siphon tube, to dispense
liquid.  If you fill your paintball tank with gas instead of liquid you
probably won't get many shots off before you're empty.  You could easilly be
out of gas before you're out of ammo.



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Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:57:55 -0700
From: "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com>
Subject: beer in restaurants

This has happened a couple of times in recent visits to restaurants and I 
still get a laugh out of it.

I ask the wait staff for a microbrewed beer.  I get a dumbfounded look.  
They then recite the megaswill list.  I then ask what else do they have.  
"Oh, we have imports too."  They then recite the import list.  Lo and 
behold, the microbrews are recited with the imports.

Ok, I have one of those imported Sierra Nevada beers.


Dave Holt
Chandler, Az

"Homebrewing is more than a hobby, it is a lifestyle."



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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:46:29 -0600
From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com>
Subject: BREWERS YEAST, DOGS

Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>  says:

"My dog has chronic stomach problems so I once tried to
get him to eat active yeast, in general its hard to
get a dog to eat something really bitter (i've found).
 But my dog will lap up the dregs out of a home brew
bottle, so sometimes I just dump it in his bowl.  But
don't be mean, give him more than just the last
swallow, he needs at least a few ounces.  Sadly (i'm
quite embarrassed) he's more of a budlight kind of guy
(sometimes i even have to cut it with water, but he
loves it).  He did like the CACA i made, but turns his
nose up at stout."

I always give 1 of my dogs (my other dog strangely doesn't like beer) the
dregs from my homebrew bottles too, and he loves any style including stout
and the hoppiest of IPA's. He makes a guttural, anticipating sound like
Homer Simpson does as soon as I hold the bottle out. Come to think of it, I
maybe make a similar sound just before that first taste of liquid nectar.

Can't seem to locate it right now, but I've seen a dog biscuit recipe using
yeast posted around here somewhere. Maybe you can search it out, Rob.



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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:47:38 +0200
From: "Lee and Ant Hayes" <anleo at worldonline.co.za>
Subject: Beer at Restaurants

The trick is at booking stage. Mention that you'd like to drink Urbock with
your meal. Ask if they have it. If not, ask what corkage they'll charge so
that you can bring some along. This will elicit one of two responses:

1. They'll quote you a price.
2. They'll say no and list the beers that they have.

Either way you get to decide whether to go there. Further, you will not
embarrass your guests.

(This idea comes from "Manners in the Cape Winelands 101")

Ant Hayes
South Africa



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Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 12:00:42 -0700
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: Beano Beer

Jonathan Royce asked about using enzymes to lower the level of 
unfermentables and the FG of a beer.  There was an article (a "Mr Wizard") 
or something in BYO about it recently where it was shown to be effective.  
No comments as to the taste, though.
It's still current and online at  http://www.byo.com/mrwizard/1112.html

As I have several diabetic beer-loving friends, I decided to do an 
experiment with the Beano on an Irish red Ale.  I used two standard doses of 
the liquid drops as per the BYO article. It was added at the apparent end of 
fermentation after racking to secondary and led to a slow bubbling that 
carried on for a couple of weeks.  I'm going by memory here, but the OG was 
about 1.050, FG dropped to 1.012 using a 1 litre starter of Wyeast 1084 
Irish Ale, and the final after-beano FG dropped to aboput 1.004, very low.

Mouthfeel, surprisingly, is better than a budmillcoors-type lager even 
though the fg is lower, but the beer refuses to clear after 6+ weeks of 
cold-conditioning and being fined with Polyclar, which has been a no-fail in 
the past.  Worse yet, there are some very noticeable disagreeable flavours 
(raunchy esters, a little diacetyl, as well as some I don't recongnize) in 
the beer.  This may be either the Beano, an unrelated beer infection, or 
possibly a contaminant/infection introduced by the enzymes.  I don't know, 
but I'm not ready to dump it just yet.

I'd love to hear about others' experiences.

Steve Dale-Johnson
Brewing at 1918 miles, 298 degrees Rennerian
Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada.



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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:29:16 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Three pounds of Flax

Chad Stevens notes ...


> I managed to answer my own Flax Mucilage/Foam Stability question

> http://www.herbalgram.org/iherb/expandedcommissione/he036.asp
>
> Flax mucilage appears to be:
>
> 8-10% Galactose
> 9-12% Arabinose
> 13-29% Rhamnose
> 25-27% Xylose
>
> and roughly 30% Galacturonic & Mannuronic acids.
>
> Flax mucilage increasing mouthfeel seems fairly intuitive; it's gummy in
> solution and composed chiefly of non-fermentable sugars.  It would be like
> adding gum arabic or xanthan gum to your beer.

Right - that's an apt analogy.   I have some concerns that the xantham gum
type body may be distinct, odd and perhaps out-of-place compared to beer
protein body & mouthfeel.  Much the way that a MacDonald 'milkshake'
(and I use the term loosely),  fake whipped cream substitutes and many ice
creams seem  more like a mouthful of dilute rubbery chewing gum than a
real proteinaceous product.  Perhaps that's just a matter of degree.  It's
more than worth the experiment IMO.

A certain difficulty is this noted in your source  ... "Flaxseed contains
fixed oil (30-45%); triglycerides of linolenic, linoleic, oleic [...]".
Flax is a very high oil content seed and those UFAs are head-killers at well
below the 1ppm level.    Yeast will gobble up some of the lipids, but you
are asking for a lot if you include a significant amount of flax.  By
comparison barley and wheat and their malts are ~2% lipids.   Oats are ~6%
lipids and give an interestingly silky smooth mouthfeel (perhaps due to
lamanarin and other viscous gums)  *but* oats cause foam/heading problems
due to oils.    At 30% lipids is you can't afford to use much flax.  But
perhaps you won't need to ...

> These gums appear to provide the best foam stability at .05 to .1% (by
> weight? volume?)

Almost certainly by weight.

 -S




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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:56:17 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: Three pounds of Flax

Steve writes,

> "Flaxseed contains
> > fixed oil (30-45%); triglycerides of linolenic, linoleic, oleic [...]".
> > Flax is a very high oil content seed and those UFAs are head-killers at
well
> > below the 1ppm level.

Mucilage is the outer coating.  What I've done is boiled the whole seeds
with adjuncts extracting the coating only, presumably leaving the majority
of the oils intact inside the seed.  Apparently pure mucilage (for a myriad
uses from hair gels to constipation) is extracted by soaking the seeds for
up to twelve hours at room temp then putting them in a "crock pot" for
several hours.  The limited heat/pressure/shear leaves the oil intact in the
seed while putting the mucilage into solution.

Chad Stevens



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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:46:30 +1100
From: Grant Family <grants at netspace.net.au>
Subject: Low Efficiency=High Flavour?

Has anyone noticed how ProMash assumes that colour extraction
is static regardless of your efficiency - although if you end up diluting your
wort because of extra efficiency, the colour will decrease...

Anyway, this got me thinking about what efficiency does/doesn't measure. It's
ostensibly a measure of the brewer's success in extracting sugars from grain -
but does it also act as a measure of their success in extracting "malty
flavours" from grain?

I was wondering this because the above "dilution" scenario did happen to me. I
was doing my first all-grain batch and had no idea what efficiency I would get.
I used ProMash and set my efficiency at 70% (call me a pessimist...). I ended
up getting 88%, and so chose to add more water to keep the OG down.

What I was wondering was that if my extra efficiency in extracting SUGARS was
not accompanied by extra efficiency in extracting FLAVOURS (eg. maltiness), I
basically ended up with diluted flavour. What do people reckon?

I suppose it comes down to whether or not the bulk of a beer's flavour can be
directly attributed to its sugars or not.

When looking through the "More Homebrew Favourites" book (with 260 recipes),
my quick survey found that many of the award winning recipes in there had
quite low expected efficiencies. Is this because people were stopping their
sparge runoffs early and getting the "best" of the wort? Or is there some
other link between low efficiency and high flavour?

Sorry, that one's been brewing (so to speak) in my mind for a while...
Thanks
Stuart Grant
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.



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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:59:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Decoction Gone Bad


Dave larson described some problems he ran into with a decotion.

It has been some time since I did a decoction mash.  I'll tell you what
I can remember.

"The first problem: I heated and stirred but the thing never really
came to a solid boil, even after over an hour on full heat on my stove.
 It bubbled a bit here and there, but I would not call it a boil.  I
kept adding a little boiling water because it just kept getting drier
and drier.  After 75 minutes of that, I decided enough was enough and I
infused it back into the main mash."

I use 1.33 qt/lb for infustions.  For Decoctions, my choice has been
1.5 qt/lb.  Because the liquid quantity will be reduced by the boiling.

There have been frequent questions from the past about what is the
think part of the mash.  My approach has been to scoop of the majority
of the grain with liquid mixed in.  When you look at your decoction in
its seperate kettle, there is enough liquid to keep all of the grain
submerged.  I occasionally checked the temp and it was at least 210F.
So, I called it boiling.

Boil - I have used thin kettles to do decoctions.  That forced me to 
stir constantly (well, nearly constantly) during the boil.  When I
stir,
it doesn't look like it is boiling.  If I stop stirring, it does
bubble.

My typical time to boil a decoction was 15 min.  A dark beer (dunkle,
bock) would have at most 20 min.  O'Fest would fall into the 15 min for
me.  I have done 5 min for Helles.

"That is where the second problem occurred.  Instead of jumping up to 
160 degrees it went to less than 150, going up 10 degrees instead of
20.  I had to add a ton of boiling water to bring up the temp."

Quantity in the decoction:  I started doing decoctions with 1/3.  I
never reached the step I wanted when recombining with that amount.
I increased the quantity to 40-45% of the mash went into the first
decoction.

I have not had problems with a stuck sparge when doing decoctions.
It was always normal.




=====
Leo Vitt
Sidney, NE



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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:46:47 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: What's on Tap?

Nice thread, full of technical advice. How to order beer in Swilltown...

All tricks seem to work, at least in some situations. Here in Montreal, 
the issue takes a slightly different angle. Obviously, the 
Molson-Labatt oligarchy means that it's sometimes hard to get anything 
interesting but it also means that wait staff at a macro-selling bar 
will often say things like "we've got [Labatt, Molson] products," which 
is short enough.

Not to give you the wrong impression as the situation is far from bleak 
here. The beer-drinking public is increasingly both curious and 
selective and there's a wide variety of places that do carry micros and 
imports, sometimes at a premium.
Now, could someone explain this? Why is beer from a local microbrewery 
not considered "domestic?"  ;-)

Speaking of price, just figured out something. Maybe the major reason 
restaurants and liquor boards push wine instead of beer is just because 
of the higher profit margin. Doh!

In terms of what to reply to the scarcity of choice, asking for water 
does seem to have an impact. Especially if it's done in a teasing way. 
As the joke goes "well, nobody else is having beer..."

As for being labeled a snob, that's just between the waitperson and 
you. As others have said, tips and candid conversations do carry a lot 
of meaning.

Alex, in Montreal
[555.1km, 62.8] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:11:43 -0500
From: "Patrick Hughes" <pjhinc at eriecoast.com>
Subject: pumps

I am sorry to hear that Moving Brews is out of business. They were very
helpful when I was building my system and much cheaper for the pump. U.S.
Plastics also carries the March pumps and a selection of mag drive pumps .
Great service easy to work with and they sent a discount coupon for my
second purchase. Also go to the March pump web site and go to find a
distributor in your area. That is how I found the pump housing to replace
the one I broke .  That is another subject.
 Stupid homebrewer trick # 179. Bought a Colder quick disconnect that
attaches to the garden hose , and then I attach this to my HERMS plumbing.
Use this to flush out system when needed with just plain hot water. I
thought this was a pretty slick idea until I shut down the output valve
without first turning off the water supply. The polysulfone pump housing
burst like a ripe tomato. It was already developing some stress cracks so I
had known it was due to be replaced. Just thankful it was during the
cleaning stage and not brewing. About $7.00 per housing. I bought 3!

Patrick




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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Asking for craftbrew

While living in California certainly has it's
downside, I do have to say that I'm lucky in this
respect.  I live 5 miles from one of the best LHBS to
be found (as remarked by many non-local visitors), and
less than 2 miles from a BJ's.  Not only do they have
some great brews of their own, they actually have a
separate menu card for bottled Belgians!  I give them
all the support I can.

Kent Fletcher
Brewing in So Cal



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