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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  re: specific gravities ("-S")
  Corkage (Paul Edwards)
  Imported micros/hops and dogs (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Beer in Restaurants ("Lau, William T")
  Corkage ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Decoctions/CO2 tank Pressures ("A.J. deLange")
  What is bad beer? (Randy Ricchi)
  Enzymes during fermentation (Alan McKay)
  Dogs and beer and asking for craftbrews in a resturaunt (Michael Hartsock)
  2003 Georgia Craft Brew Challenge (Ted Hull)
  Going to SF ("Tom Viemont")
  Re: Insurance and CO2 Cylinders? ("Brewski")
  Where's Waldo, err, Jeff (Jeff Renner)
  Beano and stuck fermentations ("Dave Burley")
  What is Bad Beer? (Bev Blackwood II)
  Re: What is Bad Beer? ("Christopher Clair")
  restaurant beers ("Jeff & Ellen")
  Re: Brewers yeast, dogs ("Qubert Bohguz")


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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:46:51 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: specific gravities

Isaac Gibson writes,

>I have a few basic questions on when to take gravity readings.

1/ Pre-boil, after collecting all the wort, stir well(necessary) take an SG
reading AND a volume reading.

2/ Take an SG  reading after the wort is cooled, either before or after it's
separated from the break.  BUT take a volume reading of the cooled collected
wort after break separation.

3/ Take an SG reading of the wort after the bubbler has completely stopped
bubbling, or any time afterwards.  You must decarbonate the beer to make an
accurate reading anytime after pitching.

====

>If I want to calculate [...] IBU [...] then I need the 'specific
>gravity of the boil' [...]
>When do I take this reading,

Getting the IBUs to within 10% is mostly luck.   Some hops varieties decay
almost that much  per month !   You'll get that sort of variation difference
in using pellets vs whole hops, using a hop bag or living a few thousand
feet above sea level.  A big factor that is unaccounted for is the vigor of
the boil.  Physically the only SG values that could be relevant to IBUs are
those from the addition of hops thru to the cooling(or break separation).
The fact is it won't matter much which SG you use, or which formula but be
consistent.   Any of the formulas will give you a decent estimate.  Use a
formula in a consistent way and if you find you like your beers more or less
bitter than the formula indicates - then adjust accordingly.


>Also, how do I know
>exactly when to transfer my beer from the primary to the
>secondary?

That depends on your reasons for using a secondary.   You can make perfectly
great beer using a primary only.    If you want to collect clean trub free
yeast from the secondary to reuse for a later batch, then you can transfer
as early as 12 hours after pitching and as late as prior to the beer
clearing.   If you have a true top fermenting ale yeast which requires a lot
of oxygen to keep going, then you'll probably want to transfer around 48
hours after pitching.  The only hard rule is don't rack or unnecessarily or
introduce air to the beer after fermentation ceases.  That can cause flavor
problems.

In general I'd recommend transfer to secondary at 24-48 hours after pitching
or not at all.

>Do I need a gravity reading?

No.  The CO2 makes the reading pointlessly inaccurate.  Use the Force,
Luke.  Transfer to secondary only when the fermentation is 'active'.

As a beginner you may want to take some SG readings throughout fermentation
to gauge progress, but it's inexact when the yeast are producing CO2
bubbles.  Late in the fermentation when the yeast are often sluggishly
chugging along it may take a day or more to drop 1 SG degree.  Watching the
bubbler on a sealed fermenter is a far more sensitive indication of
fermentation activity.

>How do I know when to  bottle?

When the bubbler activity ceases (not just slows) and the beer starts
clearing it's likely that the fermentation is nearly over.  If you trust
it's over then give the beer a few days contact w/ the yeast, then take a
sample and decarbonate it.  If the FG reading meets your expectation then
it's over.  - prime and bottle.  Taste the FG sample too.  It tastes odd w/o
carbonation, but if it tastes very sweet and/or if the FG reading is
unusually high then you may have a "stuck" fermentation to deal with.  A
very common newbie problem is under-attenuated beer, and this is undoubtedly
due to poor yeast pitching and handling practices.

> Is it when the beer has reached the gravity
> that I want  to stop it at to achieve a particular style?  Or is it when
the
> gravity stops dropping?

Beer style is partly determined by how fermentable the wort is.  Maybe its a
highly fermentable ale wort with 80% apparent attenuation expected or a bock
wort with only a 65% attenuation potential.  The degree of attenuation is
primarily is determined by how the brewer makes the wort,  most yeasts will
drop the fermentation to the same FG if you treat them right (at least very
close).

It's your job as brewer to make wort with the right attenuation property.
Do not prime and bottle until the yeast finish completely.  Let the yeast
tell you what the FG will be.

You will find that many fermentations, probably most, drop SG very slowly at
the end.
Very late in the fermentation that yeast reduce certain flavor chemicals
called VDKs into less flavorful forms.  This gives the beer a less 'green'
more mature flavors.  Don't be in a huge hurry to separate out the yeast.

As a rule you are better off  letting a beer sit on healthy yeast an extra
week versus separating the beer from yeast too soon.  Under my conditions
and at my 'typical' ale fermentation temperatures I think 8 to 10 days would
be about ideal from pitching to kegging.  YMMV.

The rate of fermentation is dependent on many factors and especially
temperature.  You may find that an ale fermented warm can almost hit the
target FG in 24 hours !.    A cold fermented ale might take weeks.

Here is the best one-line of advice I can think of for a beginning brewer.
http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html

 -S(teve Alexander)



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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:28:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Edwards <sdrawdep7821 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Corkage

Don,

re:  your post to HBD about taking your own beer into
a restaurant (Corkage)

That may be leagl in the state in which you live, but
that is not the case everywhere.

Here in Indiana, it is illegal to take an alcoholic
beverage into a licensed premises that wasn't
purchased from that license-holder. 

"IC 7.1-5-8-4  Taking alcoholic beverage on licensed
premises and serving setups prohibited

Sec. 4. (a) It is unlawful for a person who owns or
operates a private or public restaurant or place of
public or private entertainment to permit another
person to come into the establishment with an
alcoholic beverage for sale or gift, or for
consumption in the establishment by that person or
another, or to serve a setup to a person who comes
into the establishment." 

That's the law in many states.

Here in Indiana, homebrew and homemade wine are exmept
from this provision (IC 7.1-5-8-5)  I know, because I
pushed the law thru in Indiana, liberalizing our laws
about homebrew and homemade wine.  I wrote the
language that became law here in 1999.  Before that,
we weren't allowed to take homebrew off our property.

All that said, I have taken wine into restaurants that
did not have a liquor license.  That _is_ legal here. 

Cheer!

- --Paul


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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 07:55:56 -0400
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy at bergsman.org>
Subject: Imported micros/hops and dogs

The reason micros are listed with the imports is they cost the same amount,
more than the majors' beers.
====================================
I'm not a dog person so I don't remember the details, but I'm surprised no
one has brought up the fact that hops can be extremely poisonous to some
dogs.  A search of the archives will find details on which breeds are
affected.
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremy at bergsman.org
http://www.bergsman.org/jeremy


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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:13:37 -0400 
From: "Lau, William T" <william.lau at astrazeneca.com>
Subject: Beer in Restaurants

Just wanted to mention two interesting incidents my neighbor and I
encountered in local bars recently.  These places advertised $1 pints at
happy hour for domestic drafts.  One place had Anchor Steam and the other
had Flying Fish on tap along with the standard Bud, Lite, etc.  When we
ordered the Anchor or Fish we were charged the standard $4 for the pint.  At
that point we pointed out that both Anchor and Flying Fish were domestic
beers.  We were told they were "micros" not domestic.  After some fun
debating the definition of "domestic" with the management we just relaxed
and enjoyed our beers.

Bill Lau
AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals LP
587 Old Baltimore Pike
Newark, DE 19702
Phone 302-286-4948
Fax     302-286-4076
william.lau at astrazeneca.com





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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:19:16 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: Corkage

Corkage is not legal in all states.  And in some states it's only legal 
when the restaurant has no alcohol license.  Check your local laws.  As 
Don recommends, it's best to call the restaurant ahead of time, because 
even if it is legal, they may not want to do it.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI




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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:36:12 +0000
From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Decoctions/CO2 tank Pressures

In pulling the first two decoctions the object is to leave most of the 
dissolved enzymes back in the main mash though some are required in the 
decoction vessel as well as in most programs the decoctions are rested 
for protein and starch conversion. I've found that pulling wet grain 
with a big restaurant strainer without giving it more than a couple of 
seconds to drain works well. I always add some hot water to the 
decoction in order to start the temperature ramp (really to make up for 
the heat lost during the transfer) and  keep it thin enough that it will 
be kept in motion by the stirring apparatus. This is important for 
uniformity of temperature during the ramping part of the decoction and 
most important in order to prevent scortching during the boil. Prior to 
the boil I add about as much liquid as I expect to boil off so that the 
volume returned to the main mash is close to what was taken out.

For the third decoction the idea is to denature the enzymes so that one 
wants all the liquid he can get into the decoction vessel.

CO2 tank pressure is the saturated vapor pressure of CO2 at the 
temperature involved. At room temperatures this is about 800 psi and 
rises to around 1200 psi at the critical point which is 86 or 87 F (if 
memory serves). This is the pressure into the first stage regulator. 
Dispense pressures are more typically 7 - 15 psi. The bottles themselves 
are equipped with rupture disks set for much higher pressures. Again I'm 
asking memory to help me here but I think it's around 2500 or 3000 psi.


A.J.



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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:17:30 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: What is bad beer?

Bob Barrett asked the question "what is bad beer?" in yesterday's HBD.

Bob, Were you watching Andy Rooney just before writing that post? I
couldn't get
Andy Rooney's voice out of my head while I was reading it, the style was
so similar
to his. Then I look at the "from" part of the post and it says "Barrett,
Bob
(R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>, and I think, hmmm, what is that (R.A.)
about?
Rooney, Andy?





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Date: Wed,  8 Oct 2003 09:28:51 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: Enzymes during fermentation

First of all, Jon, see my FAQ for a better solution to your problem :
http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20020429215128446

I tried enzymes in the fermenter and it lowered my FG alright.  
And lowered it.  And lowered it.  And lowered it.  Down below 1.000
in fact.  Then came the exploding bottles.

The problem with this 'technique' (and I use the term loosely) is
that there is no effective way to stop it.  I guess with a great deal
of trial and error you could figure out how much enzyme to add
to do the job at hand.  But you will almost certainly end up with
several batches of exploding bottles before you get it right.

cheers,
 -Alan


- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
TCP/IP: telecommunication protocol for imbibing pilsners
        (Man-page of Unix-to-Unix beer protocol on Debian/GNU Linux)


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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:26:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: Dogs and beer and asking for craftbrews in a resturaunt

David Houseman wanted to know where the bud light
comes from.  The budlight is always around, because,
invariably, my father in law and friends leave it in
the fridge.  I'm not going to drink it, and if the dog
likes it... well, who am I to judge his tastes?  He
does lick his butt alot.

As for asking for craftbrews in resturaunts, the only
thing that really bothers me is when Killians Irish
Red is listed as an import.  Remarkably, Missouri is
doing well in the craft brew revolution (inspite of
the chokehold AB has on the state).  We have
Boulevard, Shfly, and many local brews.  The trend is
to separate beers into "domestics" and "premiums".

I always ask what "premium beers" do you have?  If
they answer "michelob" or "Killians" or (worse)
"corona", I cut my losses and ask for a "pale ale" and
just hope they don't reply with "yes, we have rolling
rock".  Usually I get a SN or Boulevard.  

Michael
Columbia, MO 

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:37:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ted Hull <theartfuldudger at yahoo.com>
Subject: 2003 Georgia Craft Brew Challenge

November 1st, 2003 - Saturday, 8:30 PM to Midnight

Georgia Craft Brew Challenge
Max Lager's American Grill & Brewery, 
320 Peachtree Street NE, Atlanta

Georgia's craft brewers are going head-to-head to see
whose beer reigns supreme in Georgia. Come see who
wins and try them all at a Halloween-themed festival.
Over 40 beers from Georgia's craft brewers will be on
tap in one place for the first time, including ones
brewed especially for the event. Tickets are $20 in
advance and $25 at the door; for more information and
tickets, go to www.worldclassbeer.org. We're excited
to announce that Kingsized, Creative Loafing's 2003
"Best Loungecore Act" will be providing swinging tunes
during the festival. 

Hope you can join us and support our efforts to update
Georgia's antiquated legal definition of beer.

Ted Hull
Georgians for World-Class Beer
www.worldclassbeer.org



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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:26:48 -0400
From: "Tom Viemont" <tviemont at atstaff.com>
Subject: Going to SF

Hey There Fellow Aficionados

I ask the age-old question...where can I drink good beer in a strange
land?  I'm off to work a trade show in San Francisco from Oct 11th to
the 15th at the Moscone Center.  I'll be staying near the convention
center.  I will not have wheels.     

Any places I ought to go while I'm there that I can reach on foot or by
BART?   
Is there a place within walking distance of the convention center where
I can get good beer, preferably a dive?  In other words, I'm looking for
a home base. 
I live in a state where strong beer is illegal.  Anyplace I can get a
good selection of Belgians?

A quick search of Pubcrawler suggests the 21st Amendment as a good pub
to stop at, but doesn't really sound like a dive.  
I also see that a tour of the Anchor Brewery should be on my agenda.
Years ago, I stayed at the Hotel Monaco and found a suitable dive bar up
the street, but I'm sure much has changed since then...

Thanks!

Tom Viemont




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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:30:56 -0700
From: "Brewski" <brewski at inet99.net>
Subject: Re: Insurance and CO2 Cylinders?

My first CO2 tank was a 20 lb. CO2 fire extinguisher. It had the valve, hose
and horn assoaited with fire extinguishers and it was still fully charged.
Boy a lot of CO2 comes out of one of those things when you are just dumping
it. When you are fighting a fire I sure there isn't all that much CO2 in
there.

So this guy is saying you are not allowed to have a CO2 fire extingisher in
your home. Hum...

I took that emty extinguisher to Tri-State Oxygen (Ashland, KY) and they
changed the valve, replacing the fire fighting valve with the one we all
use, painted over the red with silver paing, put a CO2 sticker on it,
hydro-tested and filled it with CO2. I believe that cost about $20. They
didn't charge me for the modification they had to do. I suppose the fire
extinguisher valve cost much more than the regular valve they put on it.

Probably the standard CO2 cylinders are made on Mondays and the CO2 fire
extinguisher are made on Tuesdays, but they seem to be the same cylinder.

Talk to your local CO2 vendor. Ask how he, not you, should go about filling
paint-ball cylinders at home.

Mike



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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:14:59 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Where's Waldo, err, Jeff

Bob Barrett <rbarrett at ford.com>Bob Barrett of Ann Arbor, MI asked:

>Where has Jeff been?  I haven't seen him in a while

Kinda of MIA, huh?

Well, we went to England to drink cask ale the first two weeks of 
September and afterwards I came down with one helluva cold that's 
taken weeks to get over, so I've been lying low.

So, here are a few comments on England.

We started our trip with the Maidstone Beer and Hops Festival 
http://www.camra.org.uk/SHWebClass.ASP?WCI=ShowDoc&DocID=4378.  It 
was great.  Our friends and hosts, Paul and Maria Crossley, used to 
live near Maidstone in Kent, and are members of the Maidstone chapter 
of CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale http://www.camra.org.uk), even though 
they now live in Essex.  Kent is, of course, the center of English 
hop growing.

Paul and Maria work at the festival every year and signed us up to 
work as well.  This is actually the reason we went this time of year, 
and we really enjoyed mixing with the English real ale crowd.

The nice thing about working is that you get to sample a splash (or 
more) of any beer you want.  You don't have to work the whole time at 
all.  When you want to stop, you just go behind the tent for a break. 
When you want to work, you go back and find a place behind the 
trestle and start.  There were 94 cask ales, four ciders and a perry. 
All were gravity served.  (In the south, the cognoscenti are not 
bothered whatsoever by a total lack of a foamy head on their real 
ale).

One of the things I had wanted to do on this trip was to taste as 
many milds as possible.  This is an interesting and disappearing 
style, and I was able to taste five at the festival and a few more on 
the rest of our trip.  They ranged from dry to rather rich and sweet, 
from hardly bitter to moderately bitter, and from chocolaty to malty. 
I found that I liked the dry ones better than the sweet ones.  All in 
all, not my favorite style, but one that's a nice change.

But it was bitters that I really wanted to taste, and I spent the 
rest of my time at the festival and in pubs tasting rather than just 
relaxing and enjoying them.  This was in some ways a little dumb on 
my part.  I kept saying that I was looking forward to just going into 
a pub and having a few pints, but then I'd see the list and order a 
half (able to taste more that way) and pull out my little spiral 
notebook and start taking notes.  Not that I didn't enjoy this and 
the beer, but it did make it a little bit like work.

The trip confirmed for me that I really like snappy, hoppy bitters of 
moderate to low gravity, with hop flavor and aroma as well as 
bitterness, and good fruit aromas and tartness.  My favorites were of 
this style, with enough malt complexity to balance the hops and 
tartness.  This is a beer you can drink pints of and not find it 
tiring.

My favorite beer was Deuchar's IPA brewed in Edinburgh by Caledonian. 
It is a most un-Scottish bitter - very much in the style I described 
above.  It has won many prizes 
http://www.caledonian-brewery.co.uk/awards/deuchars.htm including 
2002 CAMRA Champion Beer of Britain.

We spent a wonderful week with the Crossleys in N. Yorkshire.  We 
rented a newly updated seventeenth century cottage in the village of 
Grassington and took day trips from there.  It is beautiful country. 
Those of you who remember the BBC series "All Creatures Great and 
Small" about a Yorkshire veterinarian, James Harriot, or the books it 
was based on, will remember the dales, fells, heaths and moors and 
the farms and villages.

But N. Yorkshire is rather a beer desert, at least compared to the 
south.  A few breweries dominate the pubs, and the beer is often kept 
indifferently, even in CAMRA rated pubs.

I'll post some specific beer comments at another time.


Seen on a t-shirt at the Maidstone Festival:

"The liver is an evil organ.  It must be punished."

Now there is a slogan!  I think we should consider it for our next 
club t-shirt.

Cheers

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:55:06 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Beano and stuck fermentations

Brewsters:

Jonathan Royce asks a series of questons about using enzymes as to how to get
through a stuck ferment and provides an article on the use of enzymes.

I was not overly impressed with the article.

First, Jonathan make sure you truly do have a stuck ferment by using Clinitest
<kit >( pharmacy or brew store) to determine the amount of reducing sugars you
have remaining. A stuck ferment will have lots and a ferment near the end will
have less than 1% .

SG is not a good indicator of a stuck ferment unless you have lots of
experience with the exact same brew and have no carbon dioxide bubbles on the
hydrometer, which will give a high reading. Degas your sample under a vacuum
or by heating and cooling before reading SG.

Most often a failure to complete has to do with the state of the yeast and a
high alcohol brew can cause problems.  Simply adding more yeast and/or a yeast
nutrient will help in this case.

If you rehydrated your yeast in the wort directly and not in water at less
than 105F you may have generated disrupted yeast cells ( aka petite bodies)
and these often can't finish.

You may also have a too-low temperature problem which begins to be a problem
this time of year.

I would explore all of these before adding any enzymes which will produce a
very dry and boring higher alcohol beer.

Beano goes after the branched chain carbohydrates.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:27:11 -0500
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: What is Bad Beer?

Bob Barrett asks about what is "bad beer"  and has a lot of very valid 
points about the subject.

I'll reply with "Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder."  I.E. It's 
subjective.

Having been to the GABF on several occasions, I can honestly say I've 
been very impressed with beers that didn't win medals and underwhelmed 
by beers that have won them.  I know several folks who have judged at 
the GABF and I trust their palates.  However, I have also heard tales 
of people who "couldn't judge their way out of a wet paper bag" or who 
held adamant opinions about beers that other judges didn't consider to 
be medal-worthy.  So just because something wins doesn't mean it'll 
blow you away and just because something didn't win doesn't mean it's 
inherently "bad"  The fourth place beer in a 43 entry category is still 
among the best... sometimes the 30th place entry is still very good.

I think, however, that breweries who consistently win at large events 
like this gain a lot in terms of reputation for producing quality beers 
on a consistent basis.  So while 1 medal in 5 years of competing is 
good, 7 over 5 years is better and I'll have more trust in that 
brewery's product.

Do I consider "Macro" products to be "bad beer" in spite of their 
impressive medal totals?  Shoot yeah.

Two reasons:

First and foremost is the categories they win in.  Non-Alcoholic (Beer) 
Malt Beverage (This is a "gimme" with 4 total entries), American 
Lager/Ale or Cream Ale, American-Style Light Lager, American-Style 
Lager, American-Style Premium Lager, American-Style Specialty Lager.  
In other words, how many ways can you say "Light Lager?"  Under BJCP 
guidelines, these 5 would roll up to 2 medal categories, and that would 
leave out American Dark Lager and American-Style "Light" Amber Lager, 
which also would fit into the two BJCP categories.  I am of the opinion 
that this is a concession made by the GABF to large breweries which 
might otherwise have a whopping 2 categories that they could win in.  
Last time I checked, AB "owns" all entries and all the beer served at 
the GABF.  Without their largesse (or that of another Macro) this 
contest would likely be too difficult and/or expensive to put on, so 
it's a classic case of "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours."

Second, I question the very "beer-ness" of the Macro products.  I have 
a great deal of respect for the Macro brewers and for what they can do: 
make a consistent product, worldwide, in huge volumes.  However, 
there's a reason that FDA labeling laws cut off the number of 
ingredients at 72 before a beer maker has to start listing what's in 
it.  I don't think some administrator just made that number up on a 
whim, especially since we all know that Germany gets by just fine with 
a whopping 4 ingredients.  Call me a big conspiracy theorist if you 
want, but based on what I've seen in industry publications about foam 
stabilizers, additives and so forth, Macro breweries are as much 
massive chemical plants as breweries.

However, I know several folks who've had the "good" beer and still turn 
right around and go back to Coors Light or Bud when it's convenient.  
Me? I won't go there.  Again, it's purely subjective.  (I am also one 
of those folks who also seem to get really nasty headaches from some 
Macro products.)

When I say "Life is too short to drink bad beer"  it's expressing a 
disdain for products that I consider to be inferior.  (Apply it to a 
different product and it might be "Life is too short to eat Red 
Delicious Apples" since I pretty much refuse to eat those as well (I 
prefer Galas)) However, if there's no such thing as a "bad beer" for 
you, well, life is good and you'll certainly never run short with 24 
can suitcases on sale for $11.00!  Me?  I'll stick with my $7.00 six 
packs of craft brew and enjoy them with you.

Cheers!



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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:23:16 -0400
From: "Christopher Clair" <buzz at netreach.net>
Subject: Re: What is Bad Beer?

Bob Barrett writes "What is Bad Beer?"

Great question.  Probably no good answer.  Many people
posting here would say AB, Miller, and Coors products are
bad.  But many others disagree (hence their market share,
like it or not).  Still others would look at beers out of
style as bad.  Some could care less about styles.  Remember
the pepper beer thread?  Yet another example to keep us from
finding the answer to what is bad beer.

IMHO, bad beer is in the mouth of the beholder.  My beers
are seldom up to my standards yet friends and family give me
compliments and my "horrible" alt took first in a
competiton.  While we can sit and give 500 reasons why a
beer is bad, you will never truly know if it is until you
try it yourself.

Which brings me to "life is too short to drink bad beer". 
To me, this means that if you don't like it, and YOU think
it is bad, don't drink it because it is your only option. 
Drink something else that you will enjoy (beer or not).

Then again, maybe this is a BAD answer to the question! ;-)

Christopher Clair
West Chester, PA

http://hbd.org/buzz

"The mouth of a perfectly happy man is filled with beer."
 - Ancient Egyptian Wisdom, 2200 B.C.


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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:10:06 -0400
From: "Jeff & Ellen" <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: restaurant beers

I've been enjoying the reaction to this restaurant thread.  But wouldn't it
be much better for all of us if we could actually order a specific beer with
our entree, as do the wine people?  I'm talking not just Bavarian Wheat with
your pasta, but King Ludwig Hefeweizen.  What if I wanted a Samuel Smith
Pale Ale with my Thai fish?  (Think of the buttery flavor with the spices.)
Or McEwen's IPA with my Sag Ghost?  Wine people have so much more brand
choice than we do and yet so many fewer flavors.  I remember a meal I had a
year ago in Brooklyn that paired my entree with Saison Dupont.  I was
impressed that the restaurant even had it at all, but even more overwhelmed
at how well it matched the food.  The three other people at my table were
jealous that they ordered wine after trying my beer.  I'm not expecting
miracles to happen, but a choice would be nice.  A pale ale, a scotch ale, a
belgian, a german wheat are not too much for a restaurant to keep cool.  The
fact that I feel like a snob to have to ask for a verbal recital at all is
kind of stupid.

The corkage idea sounds nice, too.  I've been to restaurants in the past
that had not yet received a liquor license who were happy to serve me my
homebrew with the meal.

I've seen many restaurants open up with quite a nice beer list only to
eliminate the slow movers as they grow into the mainstream.  I guess it's
our lot in life to help these poor souls understand the epiphany of beer and
food.


Jeff Gladish, Tampa FL




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Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 03:06:44 +0000
From: "Qubert Bohguz" <jafea78 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brewers yeast, dogs

Stretching the topic a bit... a small number of dogs (mostly greyhounds, 
IIRC), seem to have had an allergic reaction to hops which can be fatal. 
These stories seem to be based on the dog eating a large pile of hops, for 
example after the brew day.

I'm going to guess, based on my absolutely no biological background, that 
alcohol and sheer volume would probably kick in before a dog would get a 
dangerous dose of hops from drinking beer. And if I remember the olfactory 
consequences of giving dogs brewer's yeast correctly, you probably wouldn't 
be feeding the pooch enough yeast to cause a problem either. (Stay upwind of 
ol' Fido for a while...)

But as a hop pellet user, it seems that there's probably a good amount of 
hops in my yeast cake. So personally, I'd play it safe.

 -Joe Murphy



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