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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Stirring a yeast starter before pitching (Kent Fletcher)
  Saison Recipe (darrell.leavitt)
  Stirring bar damaging yeast (Fred Johnson)
  RE: $50 Temp controller ("Martin Brungard")
  RE: HBD Digest, Category 24 & Honey beers (Bill Tobler)
  immediate reply posts (Jeff Renner)
  re: preventing boilover in starters (Michael Owings)
  re: Stirring a yeast starter before pitching (Michael Owings)
  Thanksgiving Beer ("Martin Brungard")
  digital thermometers (homebre973)
  Category 24 (Chris Colby)
  Re: preventing boil-over in starter wort while boiling in Erlenmeyer flasks ("Rob Dewhirst")
  Boiling in Flasks ("H. Dowda")


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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:30:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Stirring a yeast starter before pitching

Gary said:

> Anyone have any knowledge about the speed to set a
> 1" stir bar to rotate at? I find that because of
> the convex inside of the Erlenmeyer, the bar raps
> hard on the glass as it spins. I'm wondering if 
> all that whacking's going to be a problem with it
> killing the yeast?

I don't think you'll kill the yeast, but a noisy stir
bar can be a real PITA, especially to SWMBO or other
non-brewering household members.  As to the speed, you
want to make a vortex, nothing more.  You might want
to get a larger bar.  I replaced my small 1.25" bar
after I broke my E flask one night and had to use a
growler instead.  The small bar would not stay coupled
over about 250-300 rpm in the growler due to the
bottom.  E flasks actually have a much flatter bottom
than most other vessels.  There are bars available
with a raised "spin ring" around the middle which you
might look into.

Kent Fletcher
Brewing in So Cal





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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:27:57 -0500
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Saison Recipe


I just couldn't resist sharing this recipe...in that it tastes GREAT! I 
think that it is one of the best Saisons that I have made, and I make one 
every 6 months or so...

It was the second use of the WhiteLabs saison yeast,...the first batch had 
spices in the batch, so some may have carried over into this batch, but I 
didn't add any spices to this second batch.

the recipe:

9 lb Golden Promise 2 row
1 lb wheat 
1 lb belgian special aromatic
1 lb cara amber
2 oz Fawcett's brown malt

2 stage infusion (148F for 40 min, 158F for 40 min)

2 hour boil

1 oz Fuggles at beginning of last 60 minutes
 .5 oz fuggles at 30
 .5 oz Saaz at  30
1 oz fuggles  at  15

og 1.062
fg 1.01
% abv was 6.5

This to me tastes like one of the Ommegangs...

Happy brewing, and Happy Thanksgiving!
 ..Darrell



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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:35:40 -0500
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: Stirring bar damaging yeast

Gary asks if the stirring bar hitting or grinding on the bottom of an 
Erlenmeyer flask in his starter culture is killing the yeast.

Undoubtedly, it is killing yeast, but the number of cells destroyed is 
not especially significant, although this is a general concern in cell 
culture.  For that reason, the "spinner flask" was invented.  This type 
of flask has the stirring bar suspended above the bottom of the flask. 
I do all my yeast starters with one of these flasks (3 L). These flasks 
also have ports for pumping in wort, air, or whatever else you heart 
desires, or for sampling--perfect for performing aerobic, continuous 
infusion starters.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:44:45 -0500
From: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard at trow.com>
Subject: RE: $50 Temp controller

The electronic temperature controller that getting mentioned here is the
Johnson A419 controller.  You can get an 'un-corded' version for around $50.
I've pasted an address for one source for the controller.  You may have to
paste the URL back together in your browser if you want to take a look at
this unit.

http://energyequipment.com/Components_Division/Manufacturer_Line_Card/Johnson
_Controls_Products/Johnson_A419/johnson_a419.html

If you're a klutz and can't do the wiring, then the $99 corded versions sold
by various brew shops is the way to go. Handy folks can probably manage to
get this electronic controller up and going for about $60 after shipping and
picking up an extension cord to wire in.  I have found that this is a very
nice controller for my use.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL


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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:11:07 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: HBD Digest, Category 24 & Honey beers

Philip feels that some reply'ers have access to individual messages or at
least access to the "queue".

I don't think so.  (Other than the Janitors)  I know when I reply to a post,
I always send the post to the person I'm replying to and the digest.  Very
often, I see a reply in the same digest I replied to.  I like it the way it
is.  If you like more real time, check out the Forum page at
http://hbd.org/forums/  There is a great bunch there every day.  You can get
instant answers, good talk and lots of info.  It could come in handy during
a brew session if you're not sure on a procedure so something.

Bev Blackwood has a problem with honey beers in contests.  He asks,

> Do honey beers cause anyone else angst depending on where they're
> entered?

Bev, I'm drinking a Honey Wheat right now, and it's not causing me any
problems at all! (yet) :>}  But how you handle it at the table is another
thing.  This problem could be solved by including "Honey" in the ingredients
of Cat. 3b, American Wheat.  Honey Wheat's seems to be a favorite in this
country, and that is what the categories are all about.  "Honey" would
probably have to mentioned in the title of the beer so the Judges can score
accordingly, and the OG would have to be a little higher.

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian








 



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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:19:00 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: immediate reply posts

"Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard at dsionline.com> wrote:

>I have often times seen
>reply posts to questions appear immediately after the question which
>means the reply'er had access to individual messages or at least access
>to the "queue".

Not true - it simply means that the original poster cc'd the person 
they were responding to, as I am here to you.  If you are reading 
your email frequently and wanted to, you could have a reply to this 
in the same digest, maybe even right behind this.

The janitors are the only ones with access to the messages in the 
queue before the digest is sent out.

As far as having access to the queue, you can see the queue any time 
you like by sending the message "queue" (without the quotes, of 
course) to request at hbd.org.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:13:49 -0600
From: Michael Owings <mikey at swampgas.com>
Subject: re: preventing boilover in starters

There's a product out called "Foam Control" available through a number
of hombrew retail stores and mail order outlets. (I'm pretty sure
hoptech carries it -- www.hoptech.com). This is sold as a means of
controlling the head produced during fermentation, but works extremely
well for preventing boilovers in both starters and kettle boils.

I use a drop or two in my 4 liter erlenmeyer just as the starter is
coming to a boil -- no boilover at all. In fact, I can pretty much use
the flask to its full capacity if I want. Good stuff. If used to
prevent boilover, one order is nearly a lifetime supply, since you
only ever need a few drops.

Cheers -- m
====
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html


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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:16:23 -0600
From: Michael Owings <mikey at swampgas.com>
Subject: re: Stirring a yeast starter before pitching

Set the stirrer as high as you care to go. As (I think) has been
discussed here before, any damage to the yeast population should be
either non-existent or insignificant.
====
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html


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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:55:21 -0500
From: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard at trow.com>
Subject: Thanksgiving Beer

Following the lead presented in Garrett Oliver's book, The Brewmaster's
Table, I'm going with a Saison-style beer for Thanksgiving dinner.  I'm
fortunate that Saison Dupont is now available locally.  Another Saison option
is Ommegang Hennepin.  I find that the Saison Dupont is a little more tart
than the Hennepin and the Hennepin is a little more appley.  Both are
delicious and should go nicely with the melange of foods on most Thanksgiving
tables.  Both of these beers are available in 750ml bottles, so they make a
nice presentation at the table.  

Do yourself a favor and pick up a few of these bottles.  Do yourself another
favor and pick up that book too.  Beer is meant for food.  Having a guide to
potential pairings is helpful.  From what I've found, the book has a much
more comprehensive pairing list compared to the resources I've found on the
web or elsewhere.  

Enjoy the day!

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL


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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:12:45 -0500 (EST)
From: homebre973 at mindspring.com
Subject: digital thermometers

There a a lot of relatively cheap digital thermometers on the market.
Most are less than $25 and are designed for oven roasts.  Has anyone
purchased these and used them for mashing?  If so are there any
you would recommend that are durable and relatively accurate?





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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:40:02 -0600
From: Chris Colby <colbybrewery at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Category 24

I don't feel that judging an open category would be entirely subjective.
There are many, many aspects that separate good beer from bad beer. Many of
these are explicit, such as the presence or absence of beer faults,
freshness of ingredients, well-run fermentation, proper conditioning,
clarity, head and etc. (Granted, there are exceptions here among official
beer styles -- German wheat beers are cloudy, for example -- but these are
well-known and brewers can always specify either their underlying beer style
or give a description of what they were shooting for.) Many other aspects of
beer quality are "intangible."

Judging an open category should pose no more problems than judging a best of
show panel. Plus, I believe that brewer's entering an open category would
understand that the judges will be making many "apples and oranges" type
judgments -- how could they not?

I should mention here that I actually like Category 24. I brew a couple
"basic beer style with a twist" beers every year. (I'll be brewing a sweet
potato ESB this Friday.) My only point is that this category is actually
very restrictive (which is fine), not the open category it is often
represented to be. 

If anything, I'd like to see Category 24 become more restrictive by breaking
it up into subcategories for beers made with "extra" ingredients, beers
brewed with unusual procedures (which could include beers made with unusual
ingredients that need to be processed in some way beyond throwing them in
the mash, boil or keg) and historical recreations. (I realize, though, that
the number of entrants probably wouldn't support this.)


Chris Colby
Bastrop, TX


 



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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:25:22 -0600
From: "Rob Dewhirst" <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: preventing boil-over in starter wort while boiling in Erlenmeyer flasks

> Subject: preventing boil-over in starter wort while boiling in Erlenmeyer
flasks
>
> I like to boil my starter wort the day I want to proof my yeast, which is
> usually the day or two before I brew. Does anyone know how to prevent
this?

I have never been able to 100% prevent this, but I have some strategies that
can HELP prevent.

1) Use a bigger flask.   I recommend the 1400 Kimax flasks that Willaims
sells.
2) use a beaker instead of a flask.
3) a tiny amount of hop leaves may help.
4) bring the heat up very slowly
5) use the smallest stove you can tolerate.

Hope that helps.  Hate that burnt caramel smell.



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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:14:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Boiling in Flasks

Don't. An excellent way to get scalded



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