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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  old extract ("Mark Arneson")
  Category 24 (Bev Blackwood II)
  Water analysis suggestions to improve mash ("Andy and Tina Bailey")
  RE:  Thanksgiving Beer ("eska")
  Re: Stirring bar damaging yeast ("Joe Uknalis")
  RE: digital thermometers (David Thompson)
  Digital Thermometer Recommendation (Fred Johnson)
  Titles at the table? ("Houseman, David L")
  Cat 24 again... ("Houseman, David L")
  digital thermometers ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  HB Shops in Anaheim CA? ("Keith Christian")
  call for judges ("Jeff & Ellen")
  Category 24 and Sweet Potato Beer (val.dan.morey)


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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:06:33 -0500
From: "Mark Arneson" <marneson at email.com>
Subject: old extract

I just brewed a chocolate oatmeal stout with some liquid extract (2
3.3Lb bags) in sealed plastic bags I had sitting around.  The bags were
about five years old.

How long does liquid extract stay "good"?

There wasn't any visible signs of contamination but I got to thinking
about it after a week or so.

The fermentation puttered out a little early.  It started at 1.62 and
looks like it's going to finish at about 1.3ish.


Thanks for any advice

Mark Arneson
marneson at email.com




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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:37:26 -0600
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: Category 24

> If anything, I'd like to see Category 24 become more restrictive by 
> breaking
> it up into subcategories for beers made with "extra" ingredients, beers
> brewed with unusual procedures (which could include beers made with 
> unusual
> ingredients that need to be processed in some way beyond throwing them 
> in
> the mash, boil or keg) and historical recreations. (I realize, though, 
> that
> the number of entrants probably wouldn't support this.)

The number of entrants is irrelevant since the style "rolls up" to the 
category level.  In theory, we could define every commercial beer on 
the planet into its own sub-category (650 page style guidelines 
anyone?) and still have 24 major categories.  I agree however, that the 
number of entries in the category (or specifically the sub-category for 
Historical Re-creation) would always trail behind other entry types.  
They are definitely in the minority according to my experience.

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
Brewsletter Editor
The Foam Rangers
http://www.foamrangers.com



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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:49:37 -0800
From: "Andy and Tina Bailey" <atmlobailey at cox.net>
Subject: Water analysis suggestions to improve mash

I am looking for some recommendations to alter the mineral content of my
local water to make it more suitable for all grain brewing. I live inLas
Vegas and the most recent available water anaylsis follows:

Temp hardness    131 ppm
sodium                84 ppm
chloride                71.5 ppm
sulfate                224 ppm
calcium                74 ppm
magnesium         28.6 ppm
pH                         7.9
Total dissalved solids     614 ppm
total hardness               302 ppm

Other than the temp hardness, it doesn't look that bad. ( I prefer to brew
british beers )

I have considered the following:

1) use all RO water and add all of the minerals I to replicate target water
2) dilute the tap water 50/50 with RO water and adjust the mineral content
3) add calcium choride, boil the tap water to remove much of the temp
harndess. My question with this option is, do I really need to decant off
the precipitate, or is the precipitate harmless once it has been taken out
of solution?
4) adjust the tap water with some of my 30% food grade phosphoric acid
(downside is that since this is so strong it can be very easy to add too
much)

Suggestions?

Also, I am the one with the brown malt questions a month or so back. I have
a batch of porter containing some brown malt, in the fermenter now, and
should be in a position to report back on it in a month or so.

Thanks for the help.

Andy in Las Vegas


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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:48:40 -0600
From: "eska" <eska at isunet.net>
Subject: RE:  Thanksgiving Beer

Funny that Garrett's book suggests a Saison to go
with a Thanksgiving dinner.  When he was the guest
on the recent "Talk of Iowa" Beer Show I asked him
what would go well with dinner and he said a beer
with a lot of caramel notes such as a English Pale
or a Marzen.  He also said a good Belgian Pale would
work, especially if you are trying to introduce good
beer to BMC drinkers.  ?????  Honestly, I think any beer
would work and I hope you plan on passing on the
wine or liquor and opt for your best homebrew.
Just keep it out of the Turkey Fryer!

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

Eric
Ames, IA





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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:55:35 -0500
From: "Joe Uknalis" <birman at netaxs.com>
Subject: Re: Stirring bar damaging yeast 

Yeasts are tough beasties, you can sprinkle them on a coverslip, plasma coat
em in gold and look at them under the 20kv beam of an electron microscope
under high vacuum & they'll still grow when you take them out.  They grow
well also in regular erlenmyer flasks on a shaker  too.

Joe U



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Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:20:36 -0600
From: David Thompson <david at dtphoto.com>
Subject: RE: digital thermometers


>There a a lot of relatively cheap digital thermometers on the market.
>Most are less than $25 and are designed for oven roasts.  Has anyone
>purchased these and used them for mashing?  If so are there any
>you would recommend that are durable and relatively accurate?

I bought a digital stem-type unit from WalMart.  About 16 bucks. No 
branding on the unit itself, so I don't know it's brand.  It was one where 
I could calibrate it at freezing or boiling, and it's calibrated to read 
212 when the water is boiling (calibrated here because the mash is at temps 
in the 140's to 150's..).  I use a thermothingie from Zymie in my mash tun 
(converted cooler) and I've had good success.

The probe types.. need to be careful. I bought one from Target, brand is 
TAYLOR.  It's "OK". If the probe gets wet above the join to the cable, 
it'll short and cause incorrect readings. I found by baking the probe in 
the oven at 200 degrees for a while, it'll dry out and return to "normal" 
readings, but it's still a few degrees off from reading 212 at boiling.


Dave

"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It 
helps if you have some kind of football team or some nuclear weapons, but 
at the very least, you need a beer."
 - Frank Zappa



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Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:48:49 -0500
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: Digital Thermometer Recommendation

Homebre973 asks for recommendations for a digital thermometer. (We on  
the Digest would really like to use your name. I think you'll find that  
we're a pretty friendly bunch.)

I've been using the thermometer seen at url for Cole-Parmer for several  
years. You'll have to paste together the url below.

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp? 
sku=&cls=&par=6207,6263,6264&cat=1&sch=523&sel=9020500&lstBool=true

The long stem makes it very handy for manual mashing. Don't get the  
electronics wet, or you'll find yourself disassembling it (carefully),  
drying it out, and trying to get it to working again. This has happened  
to me several times, and I've always managed to revive it.

It appears to be very similar to a thermometer shown at the link below  
from Cynmar  (Priced nicely at $15.75.)

http://www.cynmar.com/product_info.php?products_id=553

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:06:25 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Titles at the table?

Bill Tobler wrote:

"Bev, I'm drinking a Honey Wheat right now, and it's not causing me any
problems at all! (yet) :>}  But how you handle it at the table is another
thing.  This problem could be solved by including "Honey" in the ingredients
of Cat. 3b, American Wheat.  Honey Wheat's seems to be a favorite in this
country, and that is what the categories are all about.  "Honey" would
probably have to mentioned in the title of the beer so the Judges can score
accordingly, and the OG would have to be a little higher."



Bill and all,

I've organized many competitions and judged in over a hundred of them and I
don't recall a competition where the title of the entry was provided to the
judges.  Nor the ingredients except for those categories where such is
required (Herb, Fruit, Spice, Specialty).  I would view giving the recipe or
the name of the beer to the judges as a serious breach of judging etiquette.
Only the style/sub-style (and in the case of special categories) should any
ingredients be given to the judge and never the name of the beer.  Names of
the beers could give subtle and subconscious messages to the judges.
Complete anonymity needs to be maintained for fairness.

Dave Houseman 


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Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:18:40 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Cat 24 again...

Chris says: "Judging an open category should pose no more problems than
judging a best of
show panel."

Here I have to disagree again.  I actually have enjoyed this discussion of
category 24; some of these comments may make it into the new revision of the
style guide.  I do concur, on retrospection, that judging an open category
wouldn't be entirely subjective as we would certainly be able to detect
process flaws.  And the key to any good beer is balance, how all the pieces
come together in the whole.  

But on the subject of BOS judging, there is a big difference.  In a BOS
round, one is judging whether a given beer is closer to its style than
another beer is to its style.  I have judged BOS rounds where specialty
beers have won, in those cases the specialty beer was judged on it's base
beer and overall balance.  But otherwise we're always comparing the beers to
their styles, not judging it as an open competition with 10-24 beers without
objective metrics.  

Dave 






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Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:34:54 -0500
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at comcast.net>
Subject: digital thermometers


Check out CYNMAR at www.cynmar.com.  They carry a digital thermometer with a
8 inch probe for $15.75.

http://www.cynmar.com/product_info.php?products_id=554

I have been using this in my brewing and cooking for several years and am
very satisfied with it.  The long probe is great for getting deep into the
mash, or to avoid burning the fingers while grilling.

NAJASC

Reif Hammond
Durham NH




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Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:31:00 -0800
From: "Keith Christian" <kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: HB Shops in Anaheim CA?

Brewers,

I just moved to Anaheim CA and I am not able to locate any local hb shops.
Are there any around?  Is there a current hb shop list somewhere out there?
Phone book and internet searches have not turned up very much.

TIA,

Keith



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Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:29:34 -0500
From: "Jeff & Ellen" <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: call for judges

KK Koenig and the Dunedin Brewers Guild are sponsoring the Barley Wine and
Russian Imperial Stout AHA Club Only Competition the weekend of December 5.
Judging will start Friday evening at 6:30 and continue Saturday morning at
9:00.  The event will be held in Dunedin, Florida, a quaint little town just
north of Clearwater.  KK has many other events scheduled for the weekend,
including the Walk the Line on Barleywine Festival Saturday afternoon and at
least three pub crawls.

For more information on the events, see the DBG website
http://hbd.org/dunedin/

If you can help judge or steward either session, write a note to me at
jeffngladish at ij.net

Jeff Gladish, judge director, WTLOBW



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Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:01:56 -0600
From: val.dan.morey at juno.com
Subject: Category 24 and Sweet Potato Beer

>From reading the style guidelines for Category 24 S/E/H, I would not
conclude it is an open style.  Even for historical styles, it say the
brewer may include a copy of the text references.

For an open category to be meaningful, the judge needs to know the
brewers intentions.  I would expect the brewer to provide full set of
guidelines:  aroma, appearance, flavor, and mouthfeel.  Also, it would be
good to note any commercial examples that may have inspired them, and
what they want to be different from the those examples.

This gives two forms of feedback:

1.  The information provided was truly pre brew targets and goals, thus
confirming the recipe formulation and processes.
2.  The information provided was post brew, which is probably more
likely, then the brewers evaluation and sensory skill and the ability to
put it to paper is judged.  It would let them know how well they judge.

Both forms have there value.  Originally I was opposed to an open
category, but if people are willing to provide their guidelines, typed
for readability, then it is feasible and a good idea in my opinion.  Any
entry with a supplied without guidelines would be DQ.

> I should mention here that I actually like Category 24. I brew a couple
> "basic beer style with a twist" beers every year. (I'll be brewing a
sweet
> potato ESB this Friday.) 

Just opened this years sweet potato beer, base beer was a big amber ale. 
I finally got the spice balance right, giving a good balance of sweet
potatoes, malt, and spice.  Here is this years recipe for
Thanksgivingfest (sweet potato pie ale):

Batch size 5 gallons

10.0 lb 2-row US pale
1.0  lb crystal 60L
0.5  lb biscuit malt
5.0 lb sweet potatoes (pealed sliced and boiled)
1.1 oz N. brewer hops (50 minutes)
1.0 tsp ground ginger (15 minutes)
0.5 tsp ground all spice (15 minutes)
1 2" stick cinnamon (15 minutes)
1.0 oz Willamette hops (2 minutes)
White Labs East Coast Ale  WLP008

O.G. 1060  F.G. 1.015

Boil the sweet potatoes in the infusion water for at least 10 minutes. 
Add sweet potatoes with the infusion water to the mash.  Single infusion
for 90 minutes at 152F.

I'm just curious, a few months ago we discussed potato beers.  I thought
some feed back would be interesting.  Did anyone give it a try?  What
were your thoughts?  I hope you enjoyed it!

Dan Morey
Club B.A.B.B.L.E.  http://hbd.org/babble/


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