HOMEBREW Digest #4494 Mon 08 March 2004

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  Re: Make it more bitter ("Dave and Joan King")
  Medicine Taste/Chlorophenols - Masking ("Robert Bucinskas")
  Digest reconfigured... (Pat Babcock)
  Link of the week - Master Brewers Association (Bob Devine)
  Welding...Yeast K Factor ("Mike Sharp")
  Mixed Yeast  Strains ("Dave Burley")
  Search Engine ("Davison, Patrick")
  Re: Bourbon Barrel Club Project ("Rob Dewhirst")
  re: club project (Joe Yoder)
  Welders and S.S. (Inland-Gaylord)" <BrianSmith1@templeinland.com>
  Re: acetone odor ("Fredrik")
  Re: Grain bed depth in a 48qt rectangular cooler (CONN Denny G)
  Re: Grain bed depth in a 48qt rectangular cooler (Kent Fletcher)
  Dip Tubes ("Nick Nikiforov")
  BABBLE Leap Beer Brew Off Results (val.dan.morey)
  beer clarifying (Stan Gammons)
  Re: Grain bed depth in a 48qt rectangular cooler ("Dave and Joan King")
  Re: kegs/excess foam ("Dave and Joan King")
  Re: Grain Bed Depth In Cooler ("Ross Potter")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:37:49 -0500 From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com> Subject: Re: Make it more bitter Thanks Kerry. Marc Sedam sent me a note along the same lines, and added that we should include a few drops of lemon juice to acidify the hop tea. I'm going to try it next weekend. The reason for the wait is that I dry hopped the keg, and that'll make 4 weeks, time to pull the bag of hops out. I can easily add the hop tea while the keg is open then. I found an "earthy" flavor seemed to develop if I left the hops in for a few months (until the keg died). Since I've started pulling them out in 3 or 4 weeks, I haven't noticed that any more. Dave King, BIER - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerry Drake" <kerry.drake at cox.net> To: <post at hbd.org> Cc: <dking3 at stny.rr.com> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 4:11 PM Subject: RE: Make it more bitter > Dave relents about his too sweet ESB: > > >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:46:38 -0500 > >From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com> > >Subject: Make it more Bitter? > > >OK, I screwed up. I added too much 60L Crystal and Special B to what was > supposed to be an ESB. It's kegged in a >Corny keg, and it's probably OK, > but I'd like it a lot more bitter. How about boiling an ounce of hops in > plain >water for a while, and add it to the keg? > > >I did a Rager calculation, for an ounce of 15% AA Magnum hops, boiled for > 18 minutes in SG = 1.000, I should be able >to get 20 IBU. It might even > add significant hop flavor. Am I dreaming, or do you think this might > actually work? > > A few months ago I had a batch of pale ale that, although not too sweet, > needed more bitterness and hop flavor. I did exactly what you are > contemplating, making a hop tea, that is. I boiled about an ounce of > cascade for 45 minutes in two quarts of water, let it cool and added it to > the keg. It was less than a quart after 45 minutes of boiling. Initially, > the hop flavor was over whelming. With time it mellowed and was great. > > Kerry > > Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:33:38 +1100 From: "Robert Bucinskas" <Robert.Bucinskas at oir.commerce.nsw.gov.au> Subject: Medicine Taste/Chlorophenols - Masking I've just brewed my first "big" beer, which started at 1.098 and finished at 1.022. It's a small volume brew (15 litres) made up mostly of DME but also Cane Sugar, golden syrup (liquid invert sugar) and some specialty grains. It was fermented out with WLP500 at a reasonably warm (high 20's C) temp. This beast is now sitting in secondary and tastes a lot like medicine. I suspect the cause is chlorine in the tap water, as there was a fair amount of rain in my catchment before brew day and I suspect the Water Supply upped the chlorine to kill off the bugs from the usual stuff like road kill, dead wombats etc that find their way into the reservoir in a big storm. I sanitised with bleach but took great pains to rinse the carboy well with hot tap water and followed up with methylated spirits, more tap water, then a dose of iodophor and yet more tap water... maybe overkill, but the fermenter had been fallow for a while. Anyway, the taste is reasonably strong but not overwhelming. I was thinking of masking the taste somehow by racking the beer into another miniwort and letting it ferment out. The idea was to put together say 5 litres of wort with a big pile of dark roasted malt and choc malt and bitter it with a sizeable chunk of perle hops. Hopefully this ridiculously bitter and roasty concoction will overwhelm the phenolic taste... or am I just sending good grain after bad? Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:40:29 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Digest reconfigured... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to you chronograph... I've reconfigured the Digest to mail out prior to my normal snooze time. With the nu,ber of spam, worms and viruses bouncing off of the posting adress these days, this step should help keep the garbage out of the Digest by not leaving the gates unguarded prior to publication as often. Lemme know how it works out for you... - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor at hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle" - Arlo Guthrie Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:11:46 -0700 From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Link of the week - Master Brewers Association An interesting comparison for HBD readers is to look at the topics discussed at the Master Brewers Assn. website: http://www.mbaa.com/ Bob Devine Santa Fe, NM Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:30:05 -0800 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: Welding...Yeast K Factor Scott McAfee looks for guidance on welding... If TIG is out of the question, you might consider silver-brazing, as long as there's a pretty decent area of contact. I've had particularly good luck with this, and even found I could readily braze stainless sanitary ferrules to the inside of copper tubing. I ran thousands of feet of 2 1/8 inch ACR copper refrigeration tubing around a facility using sanitary ferrules for valve connections. Machining the end of a coupling flat, and brazing it to a thin stainless wall shouldn't be all that hard. I like the high silver content brazing rod/wire. It's been a while since I've done it, but it seemed to me like the stuff with a small amount of phosphorus worked really well. Steve mentioned killer yeasts...I've always been curious about this. What is different about a killer yeast, and is it effective against, say wild yeasts? Are they effective against other spoilage organisms? Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:54:49 -0500 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Mixed Yeast Strains Brewsters: Steve A's point that mixed yeast strains will give varying results is likely correct, but the fact is most historical beers were always brewed with mixed strains and it wasn't until the early 20th century that single strains were used widely in the industry. I doubt that historically expectations for a standardized product were the same. With our ability to control temperatures and such being much better than in the past we should be able to overcome wide variations. Dornbusch makes the point that ancient German beers were likely ales in the summer and lagers in the winter as the storage and brewing temperatures changed with the weather. London Ales were made up from two or more strains, some of which were flocculating and some were powdery. Things and expectations were different in those days. A small amount of powdery yeast did two things - it helped finish off the fermentation and provided a source of yeast during the carbonation of the keg. I think mixed yeast blends will provide a new avenue for amateur experimentation and has the potential to provide a more complex beer. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:59:07 -0500 From: "Davison, Patrick" <Davison at nsf.org> Subject: Search Engine In HBD #4493, -S, responding to Pat and Debbie's failed efforts to search the HBD archives, laments, "That has a lot to do with the loss of Spencer's excellent search engine ... much missed." I have successfully used a feature in Google.com to search the HBD archives. At the Google.com opening screen, click on the "Advanced Search" link. In the top four text boxes, write in your search requirements. Then, about halfway down the screen, under the heading "Domain," type in 'hbd.org' in the appropriate box and hit 'Search.' The search will return HBD pages with the requirements you specified. I have no affiliation with google.com; other search engines likely have this feature. Good luck, Pat Davison Ferndale, Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:42:42 -0600 From: "Rob Dewhirst" <rob at hairydogbrewery.com> Subject: Re: Bourbon Barrel Club Project Our brewclub did a similar project last year. I did not coordinate it, but this is from memory. > If the barrel is still wet inside, could it be considered > sanitary? Not sanitary, but good enough for your purposes. > If we keep it topped up and sealed from the atmosphere, is > it reasonable to assume that oxidation will be kept to a > minimum? yes. > What about putting some kind of sealer on the > exterior of the barrel? probably wouldn't accomplish much. > Would the filled barrel hold a few > psi of CO2 pressure without quickly emptying the bottle? We drained at least one 5lb co2 tank trying to push beer from ours. They are hard to seal. Tapping for a spigot would be a better idea. > Any alternative suggestions to the plumbing plan? I would build a good-sealing bung from hardwood and seal an inlet and racking port in the top. Also, I would expect your "perpetual" beer will eventually turn undrinkable. Once the alcohol level in the liquid is thoroughly diluted and the barrel has had plenty of time to harbor lots of bacteria, you might end up ruining any beer you put in it. The shelf life of our bourbon barrel (stout, not barleywine) was about 4 mos. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:01:12 -0600 From: Joe Yoder <headduck at swbell.net> Subject: re: club project Steve Jones' writes about his brew clubs project: > 12 of us are going to brew 5 gallons each of a barleywine, > each using our own recipe. We will each ferment in our own > primaries, then rack to secondaries for a month or so. Our > only criteria is that it needs to fall roughly within the > OG and IBU guidelines for the style. Steve, the Lawrence Brewers Guild (Lawrence, KS) had a similar project last year. We used a foreign style stout and left it in the barrel for a couple of months. It became very bourbonny. I think that after you remove the first five gallons you may reconsider leaving the beer in the barrel much longer. As far as sanitizing the barrel, I doubt that you can ever be secure about sanitation. We just poured the beer in on the leftover bourbon (probably about a pint or so was still left in the barrel). I don't think that there were any infection off flavors, though judges in a competition noted a solventy aftertaste. The CO2 method of filling kegs is exactly how we filled ours, it worked but it did take a bunch of CO2 until we got everything sealed properly. This year we are talking about filling a smaller new barrel with an IPA. Good luck, sounds like fun! Joe Yoder Lawrence, KS Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:49:43 -0600 From: "Smith, Brian (Inland-Gaylord)" <BrianSmith1 at templeinland.com> Subject: Welders and S.S. Scott, While I have never tried weld stainless, I do quite a bit of welding on my other hobby (restoring British Sports cars). I have the Lincoln 110v mig welder (Weld-Pak 110 I think). I know you can weld Stainless with it with the proper wire and gas (pure argon, I think). I bought this welder because of the wide control of both voltage and wire speed. I can tell you it is easy to "blow holes" in thinning metal, but it can be done. Thanks my recommendation. I also considered the "Miller" version of this welder, but I chose the Lincoln because I could buy it at Lowe's/Home depot. Brian Brian Smith Big Ring Brewery Bogalusa, LA ********** Confidentiality Notice ********** This electronic transmission and any attached documents or other writings are confidential and are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) identified above. This message may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable law. If the receiver of this information is not the intended recipient, or the employee, or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or storage of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender by return email and delete the electronic transmission, including all attachments from your system. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:56:33 +0100 From: "Fredrik" <carlsbergerensis at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: acetone odor > Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:49:23 -0500 > From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> > Subject: acetone odor > Much like Zemo, I spent enough time in a chemistry lab to know the smell > of acetone. Well, I mean, it *could* be something else but it really > does smell like nail polish remover. I've had some Belgian trippels > take on the same odor which will mellow over time...just never had it > with a wheat yeast before. Oh well. To the keg it goes, how it will > taste nobody knows. > Hello Marc, Maybe you've seen the excellent biocyc pages but FWIW, I don't know how likely this bacteria is to occur in brewing, or in as contaminants in brewing yeast but check the nice sites below for one possibly pathway to acetone. Bacteria: Clostridium acetobutylicum featured pathway: pyruvate -> acetyl-CoA -> acetoacetyl-CoA -> acetoacetate -> acetone + CO2 http://biocyc.org:1555/META/new-image?type=PATHWAY&object=CENTFERM-PWY&detai l-level=1 http://www.accessexcellence.org/LC/SS/ferm_graphics/process.html /Fredrik Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:43:11 -0800 From: CONN Denny G <denny.g.conn at ci.eugene.or.us> Subject: Re: Grain bed depth in a 48qt rectangular cooler Dave, I can tell you that if you batch sparge, grain bed depth makes no difference at all. You might consider that method if you have concerns. ------------>Denny Conn Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:55:18 -0800 (PST) From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Grain bed depth in a 48qt rectangular cooler Dave was a little concerned about having a relatively shallow grain bed depth in his newly made 48 quart rectangualr cooler mash/lauter tun. Dave, I made mine with a 56 quart high insulation cooler, cause that's the one I already had. I've made batches varying from 5 gallons to 22 (a Mild, with a 28 pound grain bill) in it, my efficiency is consistently in the high seventies, the shallow bed on the 5 gallon batches doesn't seemed to have hurt. Kent Fletcher Brewing in So Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:46:55 -0500 From: "Nick Nikiforov" <NNikifor at dos.state.ny.us> Subject: Dip Tubes I am a bit behind in my HB reading but wanted to comment on the dip tube thread. I cut an inch off using a pipe cutter. The inside of the tube where I cut it pushed in just enough so that when I pour a beer I get an initial shot of foam. Instahead. BTW, by cutting the tube I don't get the glass of yeast on the last pint or two of the keg. IMO, there is nothing more depressing than having the last glass pulled be undrinkable. It sort of ruins the "moment of silence" ritual for a dead keg. As far as getting the last of the sanitizer out. I turn the keg upside down and let it drip dry. I flush with CO2 before filling. I have had beer age in such a treated keg for 6 months. It tasted great. Until I run into trouble I will not spend the time to do anything extra. Nick Albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:34:26 -0600 From: val.dan.morey at juno.com Subject: BABBLE Leap Beer Brew Off Results BABBLE is pleased to announce the winners of the first BABBLE Leap Beer Brew Off. 119 entries from 36 different brewers were judged at The Onion Pub and Brewery. BOS winners are: 1st George Krafcisin for his robust porter 2nd Scott Prutton with his Belgian pale ale 3rd Michael Pelter for his Russian Imperial Stout For a complete list of winners see: http://hbd.org/babble/Leap_Beer_Winners_2004.html For a complete list of sponsors visit: http://hbd.org/babble/prizes_and_sponsors.htm We would like to thank everyone who participated (entrants, judges, stewards, and staff). We also are grateful for our sponsors who helped make the vent special. Please support those who support the homebrew hobby. Score sheets and prizes should be in the mail soon. Cheers, Dan Morey Club BABBLE http://hbd.org/babble/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:07:04 -0600 From: Stan Gammons <s_gammons at charter.net> Subject: beer clarifying I was wondering about clarifying beer, especially styles like IPA or lighter colored "yellow" beers. I recently made an all grain IPA that turned out pretty well other than being rather cloudy. I thought about using Isinglass to help clarify it, but I've never used it before and I wanted to see how it turned out without any sort of clarifying or filtering. Anyone here having any advice on how to use Isinglass? What point would you recommend using it? The method I normally use it to let the beer ferment out in one carboy and transfer to a second carboy then let it sit at least 5 days before I keg it. Does anyone use a filter to clarify their beer? If so what kind? I have a corny keg system so a filter that is used in conjunction with those isn't a problem. Thanks in advance. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:26:17 -0500 From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com> Subject: Re: Grain bed depth in a 48qt rectangular cooler Dave asks; - ------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:05:28 -0500 From: "Dave Thompson" <thompsdc at mcmaster.ca> Subject: Grain bed depth in a 48qt rectangular cooler Well I've been lurking around the HBD for quite some time, and am finally preparing for my first all grain batch. I'm making a mash/lauter tun using a cooler and a copper pipe manifold. My question is this: I have a 48 qt rectangular cooler. I will be brewing ~5Gal batches. Is 48qt too big? Ie will the grain bed depth be too shallow? Most of my batches will have a relatively normal OG...so I guess that means I'll be using about 9 lbs of grain. If anyone has any experience lautering a 5 gallon batch in a 48qt rectangular cooler, any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Dave in Hamilton, Ontario. - ------------------------------------------ I've been using a 48 qt rectangular cooler with a Cu pipe manifold as a mash tun for several years, and have fine success. You do need to be sure the grain bed is reasonably level. I have had a couple batches where the grain got piled up on one end, and the extraction I got was poor (60 some%). I normally get around 75% theoretical grain extraction, which I don't think is too bad. My grain bill is normally around 12 to 14 lb, to get OG of around 1.055 to 1.070. Dave King (BIER) [396.1, 89.1] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:50:09 -0500 From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com> Subject: Re: kegs/excess foam Steve asks; - -------------------------------- Went to a restaurant this afternoon and ordered a Fat Tire. They said that their keg was too warm, and all the beer was coming out as foam so I would have to wait till the keg cooled down. What causes this? Is it simply that the warmer beer can't hold as much dissolved gas, so the beer is quickly degassing, or is there something else going on? Related point: I recently tried to siphon beer from a cold keg into cold bottles and had excess foam. I had already tried to dispense using just a pound or two of pressure, but my keg had a gas leak, so I couldn't maintain a steady pressure. So, I tried taking the lid off and siphoning directly into bottles. I could not get a clear siphon. It was almost all foam. Ended up having to quit because there was so much overflow. I am wondering if my problem might somehow be related to the problem that the restaurant was having. Any thoughts? -Steve (Arkansas Steve) ___________________ Here're my thoughts. The science is right, the numbers are mine, so they're just opinion. The problem is that the colder the beer, the more CO2 it'll hold at a low pressure. If you warm it up, you need more pressure to hold the CO2 in solution, but when you open the spigot, it pushes out so vigorously, the activity is like shaking a bottle, the CO2 comes out, doing a lot of foaming. If you cool the keg down to about 30 degrees and keep about 7 psi on it, you'll get a slow flow, and not a lot of foaming. At 1 atmosphere, the gas wants to come out, but if the beer's still relatively cold, and you don't thrash it around a lot, the CO2 will only come out slowly. If you want to fill bottles from a keg, the best thing to do is get a counter pressure bottle filler (CPBF), that'll balance the pressure, keeping the beer under nearly the same pressure as in the keg while quietly dispensing. The lower the temperature, the easier this is. If you don't mind low CO2 levels, just go for it, skip the expensive CPBF, and have the capper ready. Do this in a pan, and drink your spills. Adds to the pleasure. :-) For normal dispensing into a glass, you need to keep the keg at around 35 to 40F, and about 10 psi. If you want more carbonation left in the beer, you can use a longer hose on the outlet (I use about 10 feet). This allows a gradual pressure drop when you open the tap. You have to experiment to find the right values for your setup. You can use lower temperatures, but anything below about 40F tends to kill the flavor. I often take beer in a soda bottle to club meetings, and use a "carbonator" cap. I fill the bottle about 3/4 of the way with a piece of siphon cane crammed into the dispensing spigot. That way I can more "quietly" get the beer into the bottle, minimizing foaming. I sit the bottle in a pan, and it'll overflow the bottle with a little foam. I quickly get the lid on, rinse it off, and then top this off with about 20 psi on the carbonator. This works fine. Dave King (BIER) [396.1, 89.1] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:49:22 -0800 From: "Ross Potter" <BurningBrite at charter.net> Subject: Re: Grain Bed Depth In Cooler >>In response to Dave Thompson's question about >>"Grain bed depth in a 48qt rectangular cooler": Dave, I have used exactly that system for my lauter tun for about two years now and it works marvelously well. In fact I just did an Irish red ale this weekend, 9 lbs of grain and 6.5 gallons (preboil) of wort, and had no problems with bed depth, runoff, etc. I batch sparge (usually two sparges), use between 1.25 and 1.5 quarts per pound for most mash-ins, and get very reasonable efficiencies (>75%). I have done a barley wine and imperial stout with pretty high gravities too, and the cooler had sufficient capacity (with some work and quadruple sparges) to handle it. The only problem I run into consistently is being able to add enough hot water to bring the temperature from lower saccharification ranges (~150 degrees) to mash-out temperatures (~170 degrees) without exceeding the cooler's capacity. Whenever I feel denaturing the little enzies is important enough for the beer to turn out right, I will add a partial decoction step prior to the first runoff. Boiling and returning several quarts to the tun helps ensure it hits mash-out range. This partial decoction also helps with setting the grain bed (as long as I am careful about pouring the reheated liquor back into the tun). Precise timing and +/- 0.1 degree adjustments aren't feasible for me with this setup, but hey - -- relax, don't worry... ...Ross Potter Richland, WA Return to table of contents
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