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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Beer pet names (David Thompson)
  Pet names.... (Bev Blackwood II)
  Re: Beer related pet names (Robert Marshall)
  RE:Wyeast Roselaere blend / Lambic Blend ("Sven Pfitt")
  Beer related pet names ("larry")
  Carbonate Chemistry/Precipitation (Matt Brooks)
  re:Wyeast-roseleare/starter size (Nathaniel Lansing)
  Re: Batch Sparge techniques ("Nick Nikiforov")
  RE: Beer related pet names ("Isaacs, Richard J")
  peladow as source for calcium chloride ("Cox Stavros, Andrew")
  Re: Pets with beer-related names (Mark Kempisty)
  Sorbate ("Dave Burley")
  Re: Re: Hard Cider Recipe (Robert Sandefer)
  Re:Batch Sparge techniques (CONN Denny G)
  Flemish Red Ale and Roeselare yeast ("Raj B. Apte")
  Wyeast confirms timing of Roeselare mix ("Raj B. Apte")
  Re:Batch Sparge techniques (CONN Denny G)
  Roselare (Chet Nunan)
  What's on Tap? (darrell.leavitt)
  Re: Batch Sparging (Tim Howe)


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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:56:56 -0600
From: David Thompson <david at dtphoto.com>
Subject: Beer pet names

 - ----I'm curious as to how many people out there have
pets (or children, for that matter) with
beer-related names.-----

We've got a dog named Nugget.. and a cat named Saaz.


Dave

"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It 
helps if you have some kind of football team or some nuclear weapons, but 
at the very least, you need a beer."
 - Frank Zappa



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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:59:26 -0600
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: Pet names....

Not entirely BEER related, but products of malt!

My first dog, Mac, is an English Toy Spaniel, a favorite of Mary, Queen 
of Scots.   His name?  Thistlehill Macallan (Thistlehill is his kennel, 
Macallan is my favorite single malt scotch.)  On our way home from 
meeting him, my wife and I sat down for lunch and discussed a second 
dog...

I wondered aloud... "What single malt could I name him after?  Well, I 
like Auchentoshan, so I could name him that and call him Tosh!"  a 
momentary pause...  "We could call them Mac 'n Tosh!" a longer pause... 
  "We have to get another dog..."

And yes, you all should buy a better computer... unless you already own 
an Apple "Mac 'n Tosh!"

So now I'm up to four... One's a rescue, Nicole, so no choice on name 
there, but the most recent is Tal... or Thistlehill Talisker, if you 
want to know another favorite single malt of mine!



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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:25:04 -0800
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: Re: Beer related pet names

Though not "beer" specific, I can remember back to when my sister and I 
were really young. One of our cats had a huge litter of kittens (six or 
eight, as I remember!!!). What's strange is that we named two of them 
Brandy and Whiskey. Mind you this was what a couple of 7 or 8 year olds 
did without the prompting of their parents. (The others that I can 
remember were Sun Freckles, Moon Freckles and the Racoon Brothers).

Robert



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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:16:40 -0500
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE:Wyeast Roselaere blend / Lambic Blend

Several people ahve commented lately about less than optimal production with 
Roselaere blend.

About five years ago I started making (or attempting to) pLambic.

I used a recipe for Rodenbach Grand Cru (from  Clone Brews?), and brewwed 
around 11 gallons. This was split between two plastic fermenters which were 
pitched with WY1056. One was placed outside under an apple tree over night 
(with a sheet of cardboard suspended 6" above it.

After a week of primary fermentation, I added a smackpac of WYLambic blend 
to each.

At six months, I roasted some oak chips and added them to each fermenter.

At one year, I made a second batch, racked the first batch into two glass 
fermenters and racked the new batch on the lees of the first batch along 
with fresh 1056. Later I made an additional 5 gallon batch bringing my total 
to 25 gallons in various states of development.

A lmost two years ago I moved into a new house and was plesantly surprised 
that all fementers developed peleculi(sp) on top.

I have sampled these beers over the years, and all have failed to develop 
the lactic tartness. Lots of horseblanket, but no sour. So, about ten months 
ago, I made a starter and added fresh malted barley added after it cooled. 
This starter developed a wonderful lactic flavor and aroma after about two 
months(but stank to high heavens the first month).

This starter was pitched into a 2.5 gallon batch of plambic and allowed to 
ferment for about six months. It got REAL SOUR!

So, two months ago, I blended it with 5 gallons of pLambic form one of the 
other fermenters, added 1.5 cups of boiled sugar and a couple of tablespoons 
of fresh 1056 yeast from a starter that had chilled in the refrigerator for 
a couple of days and bottled it.

All three cases have failed to develop more than a very slight carbonation. 
All three cases are WAY SOUR now.

I suspect the low pH due to the lactic presence suppressed the yeast and 
allowed the live lactic culture to consume most of the sugar. Next batch 
will get only 12 oz of lactic to the 2.5 gallons before bottling. One of 
these days I'll get a proper ballance, If I don't run out of beer first.

On a lighter note, a really good summer desert is to take two scoops of 
vanilla ice cream in a large glass and pour a bottle of Rodenbach Grand Cru 
over it to make a Lambic float. The tartness of the Grand Cru nicely 
compliments the sweetness of the vanilla ice cream.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968



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Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:01:58 -0400
From: "larry" <lmatt at ipass.net>
Subject: Beer related pet names

I have two English Springer spaniels. One a female named Sierra and a male
named Nevada. I simply go out on the deck in the late afternoon when I can
get home early and call out to them. Sierra! Nevada!, then I think, it must
be time for a crisp fresh pale ale. Ain't life great.

Larry Matthews

Raleigh, NC
> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:20:51 -0800
> From: "Robert and Susan Rigg" <rsrigg at turbonet.com>
> Subject: Beer related pet names




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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:01:00 -0500
From: Matt Brooks <Matt.Brooks at uosa.org>
Subject: Carbonate Chemistry/Precipitation

In a recent post:

>From: "Martin Brungard" 
>Subject: Re: Carbonate precipitation
> Brian asked if calcium precipitates from wort like it does when plain
water is boiled. The short answer is no. The pH of the liquid is an
important factor in precipitation chemistry. 

If the water has not been previously boiled or the temperature raised
significantly and there is calcium and carbonate available then yes some of
it will precipitate out when boiling wort.  You wont notice this as it will
wind up with the Trub in the bottom of the kettle.

While you are correct about pH playing an important role in precipitation
reactions, including CaCO3, when it comes to Calcium Carbonate precipitating
out of solution, after it has reached equilibrium at a fairly neutral pH,
things get a bit more complicated.

CaCO3 is one of the very few compounds that precipitate out of solution due
to increasing the temperature of the water, most compounds in water have
higher solubility's when heated.  CaCO3 precipitation chemistry (when being
heated in water, not pH precip.) deals primarily with Enthalpy and the
Temperature Dependence of the Equilibrium Constant.  This reaction is
somewhat involved for posting to the "forum" but can be discussed offline if
there is interest.  In short it deals with the delta H, and delta G
(thermodynamic constants for species in water chemistry). This is the
primary reason that your hot water heater scales up even though you are not
"boiling" the water in the unit. 

CaCO3 is a very unique compound and has a lot of interesting attributes...I
believe the "Maker of all things" must have had a special interest in this
compound as he also conveniently made its Mol wt. come out to a perfect 100
and equiv wt. 50.  I cant tell you how much easier this makes it to perform
calculations/conversions on the fly.

Matt B.
Northern VA.



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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:12:28 -0500
From: Nathaniel Lansing <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:Wyeast-roseleare/starter size

Raj points out, >> I complained to Wyeast
and they said it should start more-or-less normally.
They also said they had no other reports of sluggish
starts. Please report this to them--they have a
quality control problem.<<
  Before you bother them with a long-distance phone call,
please check to see if your retailer stored it properly. If they
don't have a refrigerator thermometer they very likely are
abusing the yeast. Ask them if they know what the proper
storage temperature is. (34-36F) This is especially important with the less
popular yeasts that may linger under refrigeration for a few
months. 1056 turns over rapidly and is always a fast starter.
I've checked a couple packs of lagers that were 1-1/2 years old
and they still puffed at 1 week. 
  Wyeast propagates weekly, yeast is packed with 99% viability.
It's up to the retailer to maintain that viability.
  The "pitchable tubes" from Whitelabs and Wyeast contain
approximately the same cell count, about 50 billion cells.
This represents the yeast from approximately a 500 ml
culture. A 1/2 liter starter is marginal. Using the normally accepted
starter/brew-length ratio of 1:10, I recommend a starter of
2 liters for ales (5 gallon batch). A starter will restore the viability
levels of the older tubes and help give you rapid start every time.


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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:25:46 -0500
From: "Nick Nikiforov" <NNikifor at dos.state.ny.us>
Subject: Re: Batch Sparge techniques

This sounds like a good idea and I would do the same thing
if I had a larger tun. I use an 80qt picnic cooler for 12 gallon
batches.
I mash in about 25 lbs grain with 7 gals of water.
I shoot for 148deg. My temp drops to low 140s after about 45 minutes
and I infuse with 4 - 5 gallons of boiling water, mix it all up, and
rest in the
mid-high 50s. I recycle and drain this into my boiling keg, infuse 170
deg sparge water,
mix, recycle and drain again. If I had the capacity I would lauter only
once as you do.
First runnings can be as high as 1.090 and second runnings never
lower than 1.030, so I would guess there is no tannin extraction. 
Mixing everything
up after infusing helps extract more sugars. 

My grainbed never gets gummy and I don't get stuck sparges. I built a
rectangular
copper manifold. My efficiency dropped on the last 10 gals from 80% to
65% which has me a bit stumped
but I am sure it was because I did something foolish. I think I was
enjoying too many homebrews
while brewing. 

The beer is awesome!! I have 20 gallons
fermenting as we speak...yeeehaaaa.

Nick
Albany, NY


Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:56:34 -0800
From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: Batch Sparge techniques

I have recently been batch sparging and am impressed with the results
and ease of the process.  I use a fairly large SS mash tun, and wonder
about a change in the procedure.  Mash in as usual, but instead of
draining the tun and adding the second hit of sparge water I thought
it
might work well to add the second measured amount of water at the
pre-destined temp to bring everything up to mash-out temps and drain
the
whole thing in one fell swoop.  This would avoid the grain bed getting
"gummy" after the first drain and would allow me to re-circulate only
once before draining instead of twice, one before the first drain and
one before the second.  This may help keep clearer wort and less
tannin
extraction.  Are there any reasons that this would be a BAD idea?  Or,
perhaps, does anyone here batch sparge this way?  I appreciate help.


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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:38:38 -0600
From: "Isaacs, Richard J" <jake.isaacs at Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: RE: Beer related pet names


Funny this thread should come up.  We just added Barley (a chocolate
lab/Australian shepherd mix) to our pack:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?R5F2427C7

 -Jake in Nashville



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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:55:07 -0500
From: "Cox Stavros, Andrew" <acox_stavros at amacad.org>
Subject: peladow as source for calcium chloride


Can one use peladow (ice melt) as source for calcium chloride for adjusting
water chemistry?  The data sheet from Dow's web site lists the composition
as the following:

Calcium Chloride	90%
Total alkali Salts (as NaCl) 3.7%
Total magnesium (as MgCl2)	.03%
Other impurities	.6%
Calcium Hydroxide  .07%
Calcium Carbonate .02%

That only adds up to 94.42% so I don't know what the rest is.

I live in an area with very soft water. 

Thanks!

Andrew Cox-Stavros


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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:18:56 -0500
From: Mark Kempisty <mskhbd at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pets with beer-related names

Bill Wible of Brew By You writes:

My store cat, Maris Otter, just died on me
last August.  She was the best cat I ever had.
I really miss her.


I can attest to how friendly a cat she was.  When picking up supplies once, I 
had left my coat on the floor in a corner.  When I went to pick it up I could
not figure out why it was so heavy all of a sudden.  Only when Marris came
tumbling out did I know.  She picked the warmest and coziest spot she could 
find.  

Brew on,
Mark
Richboro, PA




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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:24:13 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Sorbate

Brewsters:

Marc and Jeff comment on stabilizing cider with additives, esp one that has
been sweetened.

BOTH metabisulfite and sorbate are needed if you sweeten it. The sulfite to
stop further growth of existing yeast and sorbate to prevent the colony from
expanding.  If it is dry ( no sugar added),  then metabisulfite is
appropriate, as in wine making. Mainly to help reduce oxidation but in the
lower alcohol cider to stabilize it biologically also.

I don't know of any properly reviewed paper that demonstrates that asthmatics
and sulfite are a problem.  Nor do I know of any properly reviewed paper that
demonstrates that sulfites cause headaches in wine drinkers.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:09:02 -0500
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Hard Cider Recipe

Jeff wrote:
> I can't argue with success, but I think that using potassium sorbate 
> rather than Campden might be more reliable and would avoid SO2, which 
> might cause asthmatics problems.  On the other hand, SO2 will also avoid 
> oxidation and keep it fresh tasting.

Sorbate shouldn't be used without sulfite (added at the same time). There 
are several bacteria that while sensitive to sulfite can turn sorbate into 
weird tastes (geraniums or rotting fish are two of the oft-quoted 
descriptions).

Robert Sandefer
Arlington, VA



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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:49:44 -0800
From: CONN Denny G <denny.g.conn at ci.eugene.or.us>
Subject: Re:Batch Sparge techniques

Parker, that's pretty much what I do.  For more info, check my website at
www.hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew or the Jan. issue of Brew Your Own.

	--------->Denny

> I have recently been batch sparging and am impressed with the results
> and ease of the process.  I use a fairly large SS mash tun, and wonder
> about a change in the procedure.  Mash in as usual, but instead of
> draining the tun and adding the second hit of sparge water I thought it
> might work well to add the second measured amount of water at the
> pre-destined temp to bring everything up to mash-out temps and drain the
> whole thing in one fell swoop.  This would avoid the grain bed getting
> "gummy" after the first drain and would allow me to re-circulate only
> once before draining instead of twice, one before the first drain and
> one before the second.  This may help keep clearer wort and less tannin
> extraction.  Are there any reasons that this would be a BAD idea?  Or,
> perhaps, does anyone here batch sparge this way?  I appreciate help.
> 
> Parker
> Portland, Oregon


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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:33:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "Raj B. Apte" <raj_apte at yahoo.com>
Subject: Flemish Red Ale and Roeselare yeast


For those interested in the style, I have prepared a
few webpages on the subject, including text from a
lecture/tasting I have given.

http://www2.parc.com/eml/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml

Your comments, recipes, and assistance greatly
appreciated.

raj



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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:52:37 -0800 (PST)
From: "Raj B. Apte" <raj_apte at yahoo.com>
Subject: Wyeast confirms timing of Roeselare mix

All,

I just spoke to Wyeast. Primary fermentation should
begin, in the absence of starters, the same as
pitching any other yeast: six hours on the outside.
They also confirm that appreciable sourness should
come from the first summer, when temperatures may
drift to the high 70s. Without 4-6 months and warm
temperatures, sourness is very unlikely.

Anyone who waited days and got barnyard results had a
Brett fermentation, perhaps without Saccharomyces
participation.

They are checking the batch from the first week of
January that I had problems with. If you had slow
starts and still have the vials, check the dates and
let me know.

best,
raj




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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:18:30 -0800
From: CONN Denny G <denny.g.conn at ci.eugene.or.us>
Subject: Re:Batch Sparge techniques

Parker Dutro asked about adding batch sparge water to the tun at a hot
enough temp. to bring the mash to mashout temps.  Parker, that's pretty much
what I do.  The difference is that I use only enough mashout/infusion water
to get half my total boil volume.  If I'm going to get close to half of my
total boil volume out of the first runnings, then I use batch sparge water
at about 185-190F to accomplish what you suggest.  What you propose is
pretty much a "no sparge" brew, and your efficiency will likely suffer.  For
more info, check my website at www.hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew or the Jan.
issue of Brew Your Own for my article "Cheap'n'Easy Batch Sparge Brewing".

	--------->Denny



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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:30:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Chet Nunan <katjulchet at yahoo.com>
Subject: Roselare 

Marc S. asks about experiences with Wyeast's Roselare
yeast. 

I have a 5 month old Flemish Red aging in glass.  OG
was 1.062, currently at 1.012.  The lag time was
approximately 24 hours (used just a smack pack, no
starter).  

At 3 months, the taste was just slightly sour, and
very dry.  About a month ago, white fuzz started
appearing on the surface.  

After reading your thread, I decided it was time to
take a sample for gravity and taste.  It is more sour,
but still nowhere near what I consider appropriate. 
It's very strong at the outset, but fades quickly in
the aftertaste.  

The gravity hasn't changed in two months (although
there is a fair bit of carbonation in the sample, so
that may be interfering with my reading).  

The aroma, however, is outstanding.  Smells very much
like Duchesse de Bourgone (sp?), a great example of
the style.  Color is also right on target, a nice
reddish brown.  I have high hopes for this beer after
another 5 - 6 months.

Chet

  



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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:14:15 -0500
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: What's on Tap?

Cumberland Head Brewery 3/19/04

Ales on Tap/Pigs: (9)

Scottish Blonde Ale
Presidnet's Stout
American Pale Ale
Had-a-Dream Hefe
Ground Hog Hefe
Not-a-Hefe 
Bavarian Brown Ale
Teddy Boy II
Chocolate Saison


Bottled Ales: (16)

Scottish Blonde Ale
President's Stout
American Pale Ale
Bavarian Bogart (Krystal Weizen)
Had-a-Dream Hefe
Ground Hog Hefe
Bedford Ale
Bedford Best Bitter
Bavarian Brown Ale
Kolsch II
Licorice Saison
Teddy Boy II
Licorice Porter
Christmas Ale
Scottish Christmas Ale
Gabe's Jelly Bean Trippel Stout


Mead/Wine in Pigs: (2)

116 Merlot
Merlot Mead


Bottled Mead/Wine: (7)

Blackberry Mead
Cherry Mead
Apricot Mead
Orange Mead
Champagne Mead
Punxsutawney Merlot
Merlot Mead 

 ..Cumberland Head Brewery
Plattsburgh,NY



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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:47:50 -0500
From: Tim Howe <howe at execulink.com>
Subject: Re: Batch Sparging

Parker says:

>I have recently been batch sparging and am impressed with the results
>and ease of the process.  I use a fairly large SS mash tun, and wonder
>about a change in the procedure.  Mash in as usual, but instead of
>draining the tun and adding the second hit of sparge water I thought it
>might work well to add the second measured amount of water at the
>pre-destined temp to bring everything up to mash-out temps and drain the
>whole thing in one fell swoop.  This would avoid the grain bed getting
>"gummy" after the first drain and would allow me to re-circulate only
>once before draining instead of twice, one before the first drain and
>one before the second.  This may help keep clearer wort and less tannin
>extraction.  Are there any reasons that this would be a BAD idea?  Or,
>perhaps, does anyone here batch sparge this way?  I appreciate help.

I don't batch sparge in the way you're suggesting, but I don't see any 
reason why it would be a bad idea, beyond possibly losing a couple of 
points of efficiency. There should be enough sparge water involved to 
easily raise the temp to mash out temps. I've found that a rest of about 20 
minutes is required in the "traditional" batch sparge method of draining 
and refilling, so it might not be a bad idea to do the same on your first 
time out with this method. I can't see this method resulting in clearer 
wort (if this is a concern, use Irish moss in the boil  & chill the beer 
for a month or so after bottling) nor can I see it resulting in less 
tannins, which as far as I'm concerned is a theoretical bogey man, not a 
practical problem that requires a practical solution. As always, the proof 
will be in the mug. If you run a recipe using both methods, a side-by-side 
taste test will tell you all you need to know. I'd be surprised if you 
notice any difference at all, unless you're really perceptive of subtleties...

Cheers,

Tim Howe
London, Ontario



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---