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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Lizard Sweat Nanobreweries Location ("Brian McGovney")
  Re: Magnum hops (HBD #4517) ("Craig S. Cottingham")
  Re: Cheap Refrigerator Temperature Controller ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  re: Fix and the 40C Rest ("-S")
  Re: Fix and the 40C Rest (Jeff Renner)
  Wyeast 3787 (Question) (darrell.leavitt)
  AHA Big Brew Registration is LIVE ("Kathryn Porter")
  Where am I? (Dean)


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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:04:31 -0700
From: "Brian McGovney" <brian_mcgovney at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lizard Sweat Nanobreweries Location

At 10:12 PM 4/6/2004, Request Address Only - No Articles wrote...
>It's time for my semi-annual request that posters tell us their name
>and location.  It fosters community and might help answer questions.

Hi there,

Lizard Sweat Nanobrewery (aka my place) is in lovely Redondo Beach, CA, near
the breathtaking vistas of Perry Park. The latest product bottled was a
Chipotle Metheglin from August 2003. We're planning a Belgian Wheat for the
late spring, as well as a switch to all-grain brewing by the end of 2004.
Slainte!



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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 23:35:36 -0500
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig at cottingham.net>
Subject: Re: Magnum hops (HBD #4517)

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 23:30:46 -0500, "William Frazier" <billfrazier at
worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Pony Express brewery makes Rattlesnake pale ale.  It's a good beer with a
> strong bitterness.

Unfortunately, I've never taken to Rattlesnake. I wish the new
management had chosen to continue brewing their Tornado Pale Ale. Now
*there* was a beer I could stand to drink by the case, before I started
brewing my own. :-)

But I digress....

> The information given on their website says Magnum hops
> are used for bittering.

According to Boulevard's web site, they use Magnum too. However, I don't
think I've ever seen a homebrew recipe that calls for it.

> I've been having a debate with a beer making
> friend about how many ounces of Magnum to use in a strongly bitter ale.  I
> have no experience with the hop.

I've never used it either, at least not yet. That won't stop me from
rendering an opinion, though. :-)

According to http://www.ebrew.com/hops/magnum.htm , Magnum is derived
from Hallertau and has an AA% in the 12-14% range. So I'd think you
could expect the supercharged bittering of Nugget hops, but with a spicy
character instead of an herbal/floral one.

Boulevard says they use both Nugget and Magnum in Bob's '47. Given the
description of Magnum, I can understand why they use it (Bob's is billed
as a Munich-style lager, so you'd expect them to use Munich-style hops).
I always assumed they used Nugget for the high AA%, but now I wonder why
they don't use all Magnum.

I've recently started brewing a lager similar to Bob's. I was planning
to switch the bittering hops from Perle to Nugget, but now I think I'll
try Magnum.

Hope something in here was helpful.

- -- 
Craig S. Cottingham
Olathe, KS
craig at cottingham.net



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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:02:12 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Cheap Refrigerator Temperature Controller

On Friday,  9 April 2004 at  5:40:20 -0700, Michael Hartsock wrote:
> I dealt with this problem not too long ago.  I DO not
> recommend using the temperature genie.  I built this
> controller:
>
> http://hbd.org/mtippin/tempcont.html
>
> It is based on a radioshack module that must be
> special ordered over the phone.  It was 19.95 with
> 5.00 shipping.  I'm not sure that this module is
> cheaper than a store bought controller once all the
> other pieces are purchased.  But, unlike the cheap
> mechanical ones, I can set any temperature and any
> differential.  Also, I can switch it to heat and use
> it to operate a heating element (power resistor or
> lamp).

Interesting stuff.  A couple of comments:

1.  The instructions say:

      Insert the temperature probe into the refrigerator. The best
      method is between the hinges on the door. Tie it inside such
      that it is about 6" - 1 foot from the bottom of the box, and
      touching nothing.

    I've found that by far the biggest problem I've had with
    temperature control is that the wort temperature and the sensor
    temperature are different--by up to 10 <degree symbol> F.  I've
    learnt to guess how things are going to be depending on the
    progress of the fermentation, but I still can't get it quite
    right.  I *really* want a sensor that measures the wort
    temperature.

2.  I suppose it's clear that things have made significant progress
    over the last 16 years.  In particular, the possibility of using
    computers for this purpose has become a reasonable alternative.
    I'm not quite sure how to use that flexibility, though it could be
    useful for things like on-the-fly changes and remote monitoring.

My own "solution" is shown at
http://www.lemis.com/grog/brewing/temperature-control.html.  As
indicated, I'm not at all happy with the control, and I'm still
planning to do something based on Qouzl's temperature control unit
(http://quozl.netrek.org/ts/).

Greg
- --
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:37:35 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: Fix and the 40C Rest

Stuart Lay writes,

>In a post in HBD 4515 discussing head retention, Jeff Renner talked a
>little about a George Fix mash schedule that used a rest at 40C:

Fix posted in HBD about a 50-60-70 C rest schedule for UNDERmodified malts
and 40-60-70C rest schedule for well modified malts years before AoBT.  I
had several discussion on this matter w/ George.

I believe any (all malt) rest below 143F(62C) should only be made for the
purposes of eliminating haze and also minimized.  Virtually all commercial
lager malts today are much better modified than the PA malts of 1980 !  They
have lots of available FAN and do not require or benefit from extensive low
temp rests - rest which can severely damage head & body if overdone.   I
believe that the less time spent mashing the better (reduces oxidation and
preserves natural anti-oxidants better), but that issue is necessarily
secondary hitting reasonable extraction, fermentability, clarity and other
primary wort qualities.  I do not think highly of overnight mashes or even
additional half-hour steps that perform no clear function. I think the 40C
half hour rest is best eliminated.

>A couple of questions...Fix indicated his research showed that yields
>were improved by having a rest at 104 when compared with a single rest
>at ~ 150 degrees.

>From discussions , this statement appeared to me (sadly George isn't around
to explain it) that he meant that the release of extract was faster after
the 40C mash-in.  He stated that he didn't expect enzymatic breakdown in the
40C rest, tho' he called it "hydrolysis" implying enzymatic breakdown.  I
preferred the term "hydration" for his meaning.

In AoBT Fix claims that the 40/60/70C rests achieve 15% greater yield than a
single infusion (of unspecified time).  15% is about 5-gallon-degree/lb.
Personally I doubt it's as high as 15% for equal mash total times, but in
any case - malt is cheap to the homebrewer and time and effort aren't.  I'd
gladly give up 15% efficiency (about $1 per 5 gallons in malt costs) in
order to save half an hour and the diddling of gallons of boiling infusion
water.   Fix notes that single infusions produce equivalent flavor results
as the 40/60/70C schedule - so why bother ?  Marginal yield efficiency
issues are for cheap commercial breweries.

>Does your experience differ?  Have malts changed
>that much in the ten years or so since he wrote this book?

Fix states in AoBT pp 27 "series 2" that nearly all malts are well modified
so he prefers the 40/60/70C schedule which avoids the head & body damaging
45-55C range by boiling water infusion.  His thoughts match modern malt
characteristics, tho' the value of the 40C rest is still suspect.

>Did Fix modify his opinion concerning the utility of this rest after he
>published An Analysis of Brewing Techniques?

Not that I'm aware of.

>I agree that resting first at 104, then infusing to 140 then 158 leads
>to a very dilute mash.

Unless you infuse, you spend a long time in the head&body killing 45-55C
range.  It's impossible to parse out the full details from AoBT, but it
appears he infuses 0.4qt/lb of boiling water to hit 60C from 40C (16L
boiling /20kg malt).  If I am doing the math right George must have added
only 0.3 qt/lb at mash-in - which seems improbable.  In short the figures
for "series 2" in AoBT look wrong.  The 16L boiling water infusion is NOT
sufficient to raise the mash temp from 40C to 60C (20kg of malt  at  40C + X
liter of mash-in water  at  40C + 16L @100C => ... @ 60C) unless the amount of
mash-in liquid (X) is incredibly small.

If your heart is set on a 40C rest I'd suggest a thick rest at 40C and a
boiling infusion capable of taking the whole to 60C.

FWIW Kunze also discusses similar mash schedules and notes that very few
breweries bother with the low temp (35-40C) mash-in.

>In at least one BYO article, John Palmer has
>described a mash with 2 quarts liquid/pound of grain to be a normal
>mash.  What's a normal mash for you?  Are there advantages to a stiffer
>mash?

There is a lot of baloney around about thicker mash advantages.  In short
thicker mashes allow some enzymes to last longer dues to substrate
stabilization.  Unfortunately these same enzymes have lower activity in the
thick mash.  The enzymes survive longer but do less useful "work" so what's
the point ?   The only case where this seems of value is if you cannot do a
temperature step and you NEED a protein rest - then you can get one (sort
of) by mashing in very thick and longer at 60C instead of thinner/normal at
50C.  For HBers, infusion or step mashing is a better technique than thick
mashing.

In thin mashes enzymes are more labile and temp overshoots can cause greater
denaturing loss of enzymes.  The great fear would be that overshoots can
destroy beta-amylase and reduce fermentability of the wort too much.  Thick
mashes are thus preferable for newbies or when using unfamiliar hardware.
Otherwise no difficulties occur w/ thin mashes..

Most HBers use 1.25-1.5qt/lb which is common for UK thick ale mashes.  Lager
mashes have traditionally been thinner.  Kunze suggests 1.5 to 1.75 qt/lb
for dark beers and 2 to 2.5qt/lb for pale beers..  Even thinner figures
appear in the lit for decoction.

Thicker mashes cause more caramelization and Maillard reaction and
darkening, *BUT* IMO the best of Maillard reaction come from the maltster.
When a maltster kilns damp malt it's at a better moisture content,
temperature and pH for Maillard creation than any mash or decoction.  "Buy
your Maillard compounds" is my approach.

>I ask because I would like to use a 40/60/70 schedule, but since my tun
>is a converted cooler, I think the mash will be too dilute.

I doubt it's too thin, but I also doubt there are quality advantages to the
low temp mash-in, and certainly a great opportunity to damage your beer in
the 45-55C range.  It's your time and your beer - so do it if you want.

>After settling at 150, my mash ends up diluted to about 1lb/2 quarts.
>I've read a number of posts from folks who use RIMS/HERMS that use
>about 1lb/1.25 quarts.   Do I have room for improvement here?

Thinner mashes in the range discussed (1 to 2.5 qt/lb) will generally
convert faster, have higher extract yield and be less prone to darken.  None
of these will impact the result to an extent that should worry anyone except
a commercial QA type seeking to produce precisely the same beer as on a
previous run.   If you do mash thinner then cut back correspondingly on the
sparge water to avoid overextraction.   3.5qt/lb total water (mash+sparge)
is about the upper bound.

==

Frankly, there are only a few important parameters that result from the mash
& sparge - SG, clarity (freedom from haze), lack of overextraction flavors,
degree of fermentability, adequate FAN, sufficient foam & body.   If you've
mastered  these (from a given set of grists), then there is little to be
gained from exotic mash schedules.  Yeast handling methods and yeast, malt &
hops selection are more important to beer quality than exotic mash methods.

 -Steve




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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:16:57 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fix and the 40C Rest

Stuart Lay <zzlay at yahoo.com> writes from "San Angelo, West-by-God Texas"

>A couple of questions...Fix indicated his research showed that yields
>were improved by having a rest at 104 when compared with a single rest
>at ~ 150 degrees.  Does your experience differ?  Have malts changed
>that much in the ten years or so since he wrote this book?

I haven't done a 104F/40C rest in some years, but I think that my 
efficiency probably was a bit higher.  It just wasn't worth the 
trouble.

I doubt that malts are that much different, although George pointed 
out that the Kohlbach index of malts was rising across the board 
during the late 90's, as I recall.  He wrote also of new barleys that 
produced insipid-flavored beers if not properly malted, or even if 
they were.

Higher Kolhbach numbers mean, I think, that protein rests are more problematic.

I'll leave mash dilution answers to someone who is more informed than I.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:06:05 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Wyeast 3787 (Question)

I have just recently used Trappist High Gravity for the 3rd time, and its 
behavior is odd...to me.  After a day or two of very violent fermentation, 
it slows drastically....for several days if not weeks.

Is this typical for this yeast?  I have had it well within the 64-78 F  
that is called for...closer to the low end,..but even up here in the 
NorthCountry it is warming up and the ambient room temp never gets to the 
low end...

Any comments/ observations from those of you who have used this before 
would be appreciated,...as I plan to use it again.

Perhaps I should hug the high end of this rather wide temperature range?

 ..Darrell




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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:08:59 -0600
From: "Kathryn Porter" <Kathryn at aob.org>
Subject: AHA Big Brew Registration is LIVE

For those of you anxiously waiting out there in Homebrewland, 
the registration site for AHA Big Brew is live. Please visit:
http://www.beertown.org/events/bigbrew/index.html and then 
click on the link for site registration. 

AHA Big Brew is the day to celebrate National Homebrew Day
with your brewing and non-brewing friends alike. Host a brew
session at your place and invite all your buddies! By registering 
your site and remitting your final numbers, you provide the AHA 
with statistical information we can share with the media. Check 
www.beertown.org for results a few weeks after May 1. 

Keep homebrewing alive and plentiful in your neighborhood and 
around the world by participating in this year's AHA Big Brew!

Cheers,
Kate
_________
Kathryn Porter
AHA Administrator ~ mailto:kate at aob.org 
Association of Brewers ~ www.beertown.org 




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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:09:01 -0700
From: Dean <dean at deanandadie.net>
Subject: Where am I?

The Midnight Hour Brewery operating in Redwood City, CA.
[3291354 meters, 273.7] Apparent Rennerian

- --Dean - Unscrambler of eggs
- --
Take your time, take your chances
[2045.2, 273.7] Apparent Rennerian
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It matters not how strait the gate / How charged with punishment the scroll
I am the master of my fate / I am the captain of my soul.    -- Invictus --
                                                        -- William E Henley --


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