HOMEBREW Digest #4519 Tue 13 April 2004

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


                  Beer, Beer, and More Beer
      Visit http://morebeer.com to show your appreciation!

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  Pitching Cold Yeast into Cold Wort ("John Kennedy")
  Brewoff scoresheets (Jim Bermingham)
  fermenting in a corny ("Todd M. Snyder")
  RE:re: Fix and the 40C Rest ("Sven Pfitt")
  Refrigeration Question ("Kevin Eggemeyer")
  question about hot trub and pumps ("Tate, Charles D.")
  Temp of fermeting wort, low T mash ("Dave Burley")
  Mash Thickness (MOREY Dan)
  Head Retention ("Janie Curry")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * * http://www.hbd.org/store.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Spencer Thomas (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:34:50 +1000 From: "John Kennedy" <johnk at readybake.com.au> Subject: Pitching Cold Yeast into Cold Wort Hi Brewers, I have just finished my 8th all grain brew, my first smooth run, (I new it would get easer). My question is, my wort is at 2C (61F) ready for cold break removal, can I pitch the liquid yeast into an oxygenated starter of the same tempture, providing both are the same tempture, and let them rise to the correct tempture...? John K. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:09:18 -0500 From: Jim Bermingham <JBHAM6843 at netscape.net> Subject: Brewoff scoresheets I think I finally know why I didn't bring back the gold from the Bluebonnet brewoff. My beer was just too good! My beer must have been so good that the judges, when tasting such a golden elixir that I had produced, couldn't get enough of it and drank all three bottles. Then realizing what they had done, destroyed all evidence of my having entered into the contest. I know that this must be the case because I haven't received my score sheets. The Bluebonnet was healed on March 19-20 and the score sheets were to be mailed out the next weekend. I haven't received my score sheets so I just know that my beer was the best and I would have won the gold if it hadn't been for the thirsty judges. Bev Blackwood's beer won only because his was the best of what was left. Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:35:55 -0400 From: "Todd M. Snyder" <tmsnyder at buffalo.edu> Subject: fermenting in a corny >I am considering conducting my primary ferm in glass and my secondary in a >corny keg. To secondary in a ball lock corny keg, one easy way to attach an airlock is to remove the poppet 'guts' on the gas-in connector of the keg so that the gas can get out. Then slide a 1/2 copper sweat union over the post, these are ~$0.25 at any hardware store if you don't have one already. Then insert an airlock on top of the union using a small drilled stopper. It's the same size used for attaching an airlock to 12 oz bottles so you might have one of those already too. Todd Snyder Buffalo, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:45:40 -0400 From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com> Subject: RE:re: Fix and the 40C Rest In "-S"s response toStuart, he penns: ...snip... >I do not think highly of overnight mashes or even additional half-hour >steps that perform no clear >function. I think the 40C half hour rest is >best eliminated. ...really big snip... >Frankly, there are only a few important parameters that result from the >mash & sparge - SG, clarity >(freedom from haze), lack of overextraction >flavors, degree of fermentability, adequate FAN, >sufficient foam & body. >If you've mastered these (from a given set of grists), then there is >little >to be gained from exotic mash schedules. Yeast handling methods >and yeast, malt & hops >selection are more important to beer quality than >exotic mash methods. >-Steve ...end... While I occasionally experience chill haze, I don't worry about it too much. I just opened a bottle of Goliath from Wychwood last night that exhibited chill haze, and I have seen it in other commercial beer. It is a minor detractor in my opinion. I'm aware of no impact of chill haze on flavor which it my primary concern. More to the point, what do you find detremental in overnight mashes? Or is it just a matter of inconvienence? Oftentimes when I brew, I will do a 5.5 gallon batch and an 11 gallon batch. The 11 gallon batch is done in a two tier system based on half barrel Sankeys for the mash tun and boiler. The 5.5 gallon batch will be started the night before in a 5 gallon Gott. I do the mash in at 90F in a ss pot, and once the grain is damp I add it to the Gott which has been preheated with 165F water. This usually gets me close to my target of 152F. Minor additions of boiling water or cold water are used to tweak the final temp. The Gott is closed and wrapped with blankets until the morning. In the morning, the Gott contents has usually cooled to around 125F, so I will usually pull about half the mash out, boil it and add it back to bring the total up to 170F. I set the Gott up to drain into the boiler, and add 170F water during the sparge. While this small batch sparges, I mash in the main batch in the Sankey. While it goes through it's mash steps (usually two at most except wheat beer, often it is a single infusion mash) I boil the small beer. Once the small beer is done, I clean out the boiler of hops (whole) and then begin sparging the main batch. -Steve, What negative effects to you feel this will have on beer quality of the small batch? For me, it is very convenient to make two batches like this. IT allows me to brew every other month, instead of every month. Although I admit that the small batch is always a lower gravity beer and it does not last more than two months in a keg, so I probably do not have the time to see any effects that would show up due to aging. Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery http://thegimp.8k.com Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian "There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:01:31 -0500 From: "Kevin Eggemeyer" <KEggemeyer at charter.net> Subject: Refrigeration Question I am building a refrigeration temperature controller out of an old PC. A fairly simple circuit using an analog-to-digital converter and two LM34 temperature sensors connects to the parallel port to read the temperature. A solid state relay controls the power to the refrigerator. Additional sensors and relays can be added to control additional refrigerators. The sensors monitor both the ambient temperature and the wort temperature. The ambient temperature is used as the control. The wort temperature is monitored so the set point of the ambient temperature can be lowered if the fermentation generates a lot of heat. My questions have to do with the running the compressor on the refrigerator: 1) Is there a minimum amount of time the compressor should be on? That is, once the refrigerator kicks on, how long should it stay on? Or, can it be shut off quickly without stressing the refrigerator? 2) Is there a minimum amount of time the compressor should remain off between cycles? 3) Are there any other control parameters that should be set to extend (or rather, not shorten) the life of the refrigerator? Any help would be appreciated. Kevin Eggemeyer O'Fallon, MO Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:14:56 -0500 From: "Tate, Charles D." <Chip_Tate at baylor.edu> Subject: question about hot trub and pumps I have just build my "dream" system that has valves, a pump, etc. and like it quite a bit. The problem is that I've created a new problem for myself. My old system required me to lift my full kettle up on a counter top and then siphon the wort through the chiller. Other the minor risks of hernia and fatal scalding, this system was great and gave me crystal clear work from the kettle. My hot trub stayed in nice big flocks and settled with the hops. Now that I'm pumping my wort from the kettle, it seems like my pump is whipping the hot trub back into the wort during recirculation before my hop filter bed gets set up. Any ideas, or should I just crack open a cold one and not worry about it? Thanks, Chip Tate Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:30:20 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Temp of fermeting wort, low T mash Brewsters: Greg comments that the temperature of his fermenting wort is oft times 10 degrees above the refrigerator temperature. Greg, I put the temperature sensor into the wort to correct for this. It can get messy and I have tried a testube with water in it immersed in the wort with a plastic hose covering the wire, the sensor taped to the outside of the fermenter, plastic bags etc. None are great, but the immersion of the sensor is the key to getting the temperature correct. It helps to cool the wort before pitching. - -------------------- I still use a low T mash ( and did before I heard of G. Fix) as I found it allows the malt to get thoroughly wetted out and hydrated so that the enzymes can do their work at higher temperatures. I basically disagree with the C. Papazian attitude ( repeated by SteveA) to add additional malt to make up for mashing inefficiencies, as I feel doing a good mashing job brings with it additonal flavors ( perhaps the melandoins Steve speaks about) and mouthfeel. I have never really had a problem with a short low T rest giving head formation problems. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:40:08 -0500 From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com> Subject: Mash Thickness Stuart asks: > I agree that resting first at 104, then infusing to 140 then 158 leads to a very dilute > mash. In at least one BYO article, John Palmer has described a mash with 2 quarts > liquid/pound of grain to be a normal mash. What's a normal mash for you? Are there > advantages to a stiffer mash? Dornbusch gives an good overview of mash thickness in the appendix of Bavarian Helles. In this book the ratio is reported as mass:mass. Converting to qts/lb: Ratio m:m quarts/lb 2:1 .96 3:1 1.44 4:1 1.92 5:1 2.40 (sites this a practical limit for most mash tuns) I routinely use 1.9 qts/lb as my standard ratio, (I used 1.33 qts/lb when I 1st started brewing). I believe there are two good reason for using a thinner mash: 1. Increased thermal capacity which results in less temperature loss for a given period of time. In other words, more stable mash temperature. 2. Quicker conversion, shorter mash time (30 to 40 minute rest instead of 60+). Less time also means less temperature decay. ==> quicker brew day with "more consistent" mash temperature. I don't necessarily agree with the first statement that resting at 104F first, infusing to 140F and then 158F leads to a dilute mash. Accepting the ratio above as reasonable/normal, it is possible to step mash and not exceed these values during the final rest. The calculations are not difficult, but are iterative because temperature loss is dependant on the thermal capacity of the mash (amount of water present and grain during each phase). Using boiling water for the infusions reduces the amount of water required. I've written my own brewing software to perform iterative calculations with very good success. After Big Brew 2003, others observed how the calculations simplified my brewing day and they requested that I teach them how to perform these calculations. After a year, I'm final getting around to their request. I'm preparing a paper, to compliment the presentation. In the paper I give an example of a 50/60/70 mash with a final water to grist ratio of 1.9 qts/lb. In this example, the solution converged with an initial step of 0.96 qts/lb (thick, but within reason). For a 40/60/70 mash, I suspect the first step would be very thick, closer to 0.5 qts/lb. Contact me off line if you would like a draft copy of the paper. The final version will not be ready until July. Only when I'm trying to brew light colored lagers from high carbonate water do I use an acid rest. Unless brewing beers with a high portion of adjuncts, protein rests are not necessary. In general, I agree rest below 140F can be avoided. Dan Morey Club BABBLE http://hbd.org/babble [213.1, 271.5] mi Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:17:56 +0000 From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com> Subject: Head Retention On 7 April, Jeff Renner replied to my post where I requested help with a head retention problem. Sorry to post and run Jeff, but shortly after posting my question I split for the mountains and spent 3 days on the Salmon river fishing for Steelhead trout. Didn't catch anything, but it sure was nice to be on the river. He also points out that I sign my posts with my name, but mascarade as my wife. Not sure why this happens, but will consult with SWMBO and sort it out. Jeff also wonders if I'm the hound or the calico...well, I'm a veterinarian by training and have been informed by SWMBO that both the dog (walker hound blue tick cross, rescued from abandonment) and the cat (another rescue) have been spoiled entirely by me. I named the winery / brewery in their honor. I'm now catching up on a very interesting thread. Yes, I mash using the GFix 40/60/70 schedule. I use 1.33 quarts of water per pound of grain, and boost the temperature steps using a propane burner. I don't have AoBT with me right now, but I do remember GFix recommending a step around 95-100 F to break down beta glucans. I hate stuck mashes, so I almost always use this step. I also remember reading in Noonan's New Brewing Lager Beers that doughing in at room temperature prevents dough balls. So, I mash in at room temp (scoop grain into water a little at a time and mix well), let the grains soak a bit, boost to 96Fx 30 min, then 140 x 30 min, then the final rest x 30 minutes or more typically 1 hour, final temperature determined by the style of beer. I try to get through the 120 - 140F range fairly quickly to prevent excess protein degredation. I measure wort pH using a cheap but calibrated pH meter. I measure the pH of the wort at room temperature after doughing in before the first temperature boost. I allow the grains to settle and insert the probe in the top layer of liquor. I adjust mash pH with lactic acid. I usually experience 80-86% efficiency. Any insight on the head retention problem now that you have more details? I purchased PBW for the first time a few weeks ago and haven't had a chance to use it. How long will diluted PBW maintain it's activity? Obviously, the activity will be reduced in the presence of large amounts of organic matter, but when do you pitch it and make up a new batch? As Steve suggests in his 12 April post, I will use a boiling water infusion to rapidly boost from 40C to 60 C. While in the mountains, I managed to collect 14 gallons of snow melt run-off from a fast moving mountain stream. It's time to brew my first lager. Would snow melt require mineral additions? Wired up the RANCO temperature controler last night, which leads me to another question. I plan on using the temp controler to run a used commercial True beverage refrigerator out in my garage. The True refrigerator has a fan that runs all the time when plugged into the GFI outlet in the garage and the compressor cuts on and off as needed. When I use the temp controler to control the True, the power shuts off completely, shutting the fan off. Will cycling the power, which cycles the fan on and off, hurt the refrigerator? Will fire up the GPS for the Renerian calculator tonight. Todd in Idaho Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 04/13/04, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster@hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96