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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Sunshine Challenge ("Dave Burley")
  Re: Low Alcohol Brewing (Kirk Harralson)
  Buckling false bottems and pseudo beer (Jim Bermingham)
  units (Fix and the 40C rest) (Joe Fasel)
  Re: Ping Jeff Renner: Ballantine IPA Clone recipe (Jeff Renner)
  Beer and Dinner Parties (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Re: false bottom buckling due to expansion ("Rob Dewhirst")
  Re;  Low or no alcohol beer ("William Frazier")
  [Fwd: Re: Ping Jeff Renner: Ballantine IPA Clone recipe] (Bob Girolamo)
  Vigorous aeration and finishing hops ("May, Jeff")
  Barley in beer, tri-sodium phosphate and copper chillers ("Dave Burley")


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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:37:29 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Sunshine Challenge

Brewsters:

As Marc Sedam said, he and I and Jeff Renner were the guests of the Sunshine
Challenge a few years ago and we WERE treated like princes. I too support this
superbly run event. The contests were spirited ( and so were the contestants)
with groups from all over the South.  It was a great time and I got the chance
to meet great people and drink some great beer.

Is great the right word? Maybe WOW! nooo "great" is correct. I still think
about the fun the three of us had.  And to be at 0,0 Rennerian after all these
years was also ...Great.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:48:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirk Harralson <kirk78h at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Low Alcohol Brewing

After reading the posts on low alcohol / low calorie beers, I
looked through my box of old brewing books for the Classic Beer
series on Belgian beers.  Of course, when I need it, I can't
find it.  Anyway, the author includes a recipe called Belgian
Driving (or Drivers ???) Beer -- presumably fit for designated
drivers.  I brewed this beer some years back, and was very
pleasantly surprised at the flavor and character for such an
extremely light beer.  I've meant to follow up on this, and
tinker with it to my liking; but my brewing is currently on
hiatus.  Regardless, I still recommend it as a good starting
point.

By the way, from time to time I find it necessary to restrict or
limit carb intake (like a lot of Americans these days...).  On
those occasions, instead of drinking a beer or two at the end of
the day, I'll have a glass or two of wine -- 1g carb per glass
of white; 2g for red.

Kirk Harralson
Bel Air, MD


	
		


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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:57:16 -0500
From: Jim Bermingham <JBHAM6843 at netscape.net>
Subject: Buckling false bottems and pseudo beer

Pat from River Bound Brewery has a problem with his sst false bottem 
buckling  when hot.  I too had this problem a few years ago when I first 
got my current system.  Pat you may be able to solve your problem the 
same way I did.  Head on down to the river and get some baseball size 
river washed stones.  I place these around the edge of the false 
bottom.  They have done the job for me for more than 5 years now.

"Pseudo-beer"  There are some places in the US that brew Molasses beer 
today.  My Dad brewed it occasionally.  One of his favorite pseudo-beers 
was "Persimmon Beer"  He had a batch of this ferminting when he pased 
away in 1989.  No malt in this beer either.  You did however, add a cup 
of  cornmeal for a 5 gallon batch.

Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX



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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:18:27 -0600
From: Joe Fasel <jhf at lanl.gov>
Subject: units (Fix and the 40C rest)

In HBD #4525, I wrote

> I calculate the initial mass of water for that 20kg of malt
> to be 42.5kg.  In English units, this means an initial ratio
> of 1.02 qt/lb, with an addition of 0.38 qt/lb.

I meant "American units".  Those are US quarts, not Imperial.

- --Joe


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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:29:42 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Ping Jeff Renner: Ballantine IPA Clone recipe

Bob Girolamo <bob-girolamo at sbcglobal.net> writes:

>I've been researching this for a while and have noted your 1998 HBD
>archive of the recipe but, have had no luck finding it. I was wondering
>if you still had it somewhere and could post it.

Larry O'Mahoney of New Orleans posed the question in 1998 to which I 
responded with a recipe based on some research in Brewing Techniques, 
New Brewer and Zymurgy, I think.  He modified it and brewed a great 
clone - he sent me a 22 oz. bomber.

I brewed a batch three years ago, slightly modifying the recipe(s), 
and lazily left it in the secondary too long, and it oxidized, I 
guess.  Tasted bad, anyway, with a strong acetaldehyde flavor chief 
among the flaws.  I dumped it - one of the few batches I've ever 
thrown out.  I should brew it again.

Larry's post is below.  In rereading it, I am surprised at the amount 
of corn sugar I suggested.  I used less in my brew, as did Larry. 
Mine was OG 1.066, FG 1.007.

BTW, if you want to read about a really legendary Ballantine brew, 
google Ballantine Burton Ale.

Please post the result if you brew it, and if anything isn't clear, 
let me know.

Jeff:

=============
From: "O'mahoney, Larry (LLOM)" <LLOM at chevron.com>
Subject: Ballantine IPA

Since many of you have been waxing nostalgic about "old" styles, CAPs and
krausening, I think I'll add a little grist to your discussion mills. For
quite some time, I'd been looking for a recipe to duplicate Ballantine IPA,
an almost legendary beer (and sponsor of the N.Y. Yankees for many years)
brewed in Newark, N.J. After some electronic poking around, I was fortunate
enough to receive a recipe from Jeff Renner.

I modified Jeff's recipe a little, mostly because I only had 6 lbs. of 6-row
and 1.5 lbs. of corn sugar.

Ingredients for 5 gallons		Jeff		My Brew

6 row pale ale malt			6.7 lb.		6.0 lb.
Light crystal (50-60 L)			0.75 lb.	0.75 lb. (10 L)
Flaked Maize				1.9 lb.		2.0 lb.
Corn Sugar				2.6 lb.		1.5 lb.

Hops
Bittering: Bullion or Tettanger		1.4 oz.		1.4 oz.
Flavor:	Cluster				1.4 oz.		1.4 oz.
Aroma:	Saaz				0.5 oz.		0.5 oz.
Dry hop:Saaz				---		0.25 oz.

Bitter to 40-60 IBU. Hop additions were somewhat improvised. I didn't know
how to partition the bullion and tettanger hops for the bittering, so I used
0.7 oz. of each. Using the Garetz method I ended up with 43 IBU calculated.
I put a very hard crush on the 6 row, and mixed all the grains with 1.2
quarts/lb. in the mash. I added two tsp. gypsum to the mash, as I have
extremely soft water. The step infusion was 126 degF/15 min. 153 degF/45
min. 158 degF/10 min. 165 degF/10 min. The sparge effluent was the most
beautiful, deep golden color I've ever had. The effluent cleared after less
than a cup (I use an Easymasher in a 5 gallon SS pot.) The sparge was
incredibly easy. I don't know why so many people knock 6-row pale malt. It
is great stuff.

I boiled for 70 minutes adding the Bullion/Tettanger for 60 minutes, the
Cluster with 20 minutes to go, Saaz with 5 minutes to go. OG = 1.069  at  60
degF. I used Wyeast 1098, figuring it would probably be closer to
traditional British IPA yeasts than Wyeast 1056, although Jeff recommended
1056 as the proper yeast used by Ballantine's. I dry-hopped after seven
days, as several references I have indicate Ballantine was "dramatically"
dry hopped. After two weeks of single-stage fermenting at 65 degF (FG= 1.012
 at  60 degF) I bottled using 5 PrimaTabs/22 oz. bottle (I calculated this to
be equal to about 3 oz. priming sugar per 5 gallons).

After a week in the bottle, I couldn't wait any longer. Excellent
carbonation (maybe too much), clearing nicely, great white head, and a bead
and Belgian lace that lasted over an hour. At this stage the taste could be
described as raw, muscular. After only one week it was "green" as expected.
After three weeks, it has mellowed well. It has a complex flavor profile.
First, there is a good clean, strong bitterness, followed by a very strong
Cluster flavor. Next, a pleasant but subdued Saaz flavor and aroma. All
these are underlain by a mild caramel flavor, probably from the crystal.
Normally, I don't care for caramel flavor in my beer, but this was good. If
you don't like Cluster flavor, this is not the beer for you. It is very
alcoholic (calculation ~ 7.1% ABV). Twelve oz. of this beer had me looped!

It's been decades since I had a commercial Ballantine's, but the moment I
tasted this IPA it struck a faint memory from somewhere deep in my mind,
which makes me think that this is a very close rendition of the original
Ballantine. I'm quite pleased with the results so far. If I were to make any
changes, I'd increase the 6-row to the original 6.75 lbs., and drop the
protein rest to 10 minutes. Fifteen minutes was too much for long-lasting
head retention. I'd maybe decrease the amount of Cluster flavor hops by
half. The bitterness was very clean, and did not display any of the black
current flavors many have associated with Bullion hops.

If there are any former Ballantine brewmasters lurking around out there, I'd
enjoy your comments on this, to see if I've gotten close to what you used to
brew.

BTW, since making the Ballantine's, I've made a CAP again using 6-row malt.
This really is great grain. Beautiful color, super easy sparge and the
flavor is fine.

Larry
New Orleans
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:37:06 -0300
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Beer and Dinner Parties

Been to a few dinner parties recently. Among French-speakers at least, 
it's common practice to bring a bottle of wine (or two) when you go to 
someone's place. Part of this does relate to the perceived 
sophistication of wine and people often comment on wine choices on 
those occasions.
While I like to offer beer to guests at my place, I don't tend to bring 
beer instead of wine at dinner parties but it would seem to be a good 
way to get people interested in knowing more about beer, with the 
ensuing conversations about beer variety.
Do some of you bring beer to dinner parties? If so, what types of beer 
do you bring? Do you try to pair styles with food? Is the beer usually 
well-received?
We've talked about similar issues WRT etiquette in restaurants and 
such, but I'm asking more about casual dinner parties at someone's 
private home. And I do realize that it might be illegal to bring 
homebrew to someone else's place in some regions...

Cheers!

Ale-X in Moncton, New Brunswick (soon to be back in Montreal, Qc)



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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:39:22 -0500
From: "Rob Dewhirst" <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: false bottom buckling due to expansion

Get a piece of 2" or 1.5" copper pipe the same length as the distance from
the center of the bottom of the mash tun to the bottom of the false bottom
(if that makes sense).

Drill a bunch of holes in it.

Place in center of tun bottom before putting in hinge screen.

You can park a car on it.



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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:55:03 -0500
From: "William Frazier" <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re;  Low or no alcohol beer

Look up my February 4th, 2000 HBD post about Malz Bier.  I brewed a recipe
using saccharomycodes ludwigii, which is probably Wyeast 0058...I talked
with Wyeast at the time about acquiring the yeast but eventually got it form
Jim Liddil who had access to a wide variety of yeasts.  The beer had a 1048
OG.  I split the batch into two parts.  Part 1 used S. ludwigii yeast and
part 2 used Wyeast 1728.  After 5 days both parts appeared finished with
primary fermentation. The result~part 1 SG 1045 and part 2 SG 1010.  The
part 1 beer that used S. ludwigii had about 0.5% alcohol while part 2 had
about 5.0% alcohol.

This yeast will result in very low alcohol beers.  My notes say the S.
ludwigii beer was still malty sweet after fermentation.  If I made this type
beer again I would shoot for a 1025 OG and expect the finished SG to be
about 1020 to 1023.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

























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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:08:49 -0700
From: Bob Girolamo <bob-girolamo at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Ping Jeff Renner: Ballantine IPA Clone recipe]


Subject: Re: Ping Jeff Renner: Ballantine IPA Clone recipe
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:49:29 -0700
From: Bob Girolamo <bob-girolamo at sbcglobal.net>
To: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>


Jeff,

Thanks for the plethora of info. I'll be working on this project in the
next two weeks. I am also familiar with the history of Burton Ale, which
I will attempt also by dialing up this recipe to Old Ale/Barleywine
strength and let it age in stainless with French oak chips for 18 months
at cellar temps.
I will include you with info on all phases of this project and also post
on HBD. You will also be provided with samples at various ages of both
brews as we all head down the space time continuum.


Thanks again,

Bob Girolamo aka Brewer Bob


>  
> Bob Girolamo <bob-girolamo at sbcglobal.net> writes:
> 
>  >I've been researching this for a while and have noted your 1998 HBD
>  >archive of the recipe but, have had no luck finding it. I was wondering
>  >if you still had it somewhere and could post it.
> 
> Larry O'Mahoney of New Orleans posed the question in 1998 to which I
> responded with a recipe based on some research in Brewing Techniques,
> New Brewer and Zymurgy, I think.  He modified it and brewed a great
> clone - he sent me a 22 oz. bomber.
> 
> I brewed a batch three years ago, slightly modifying the recipe(s),
> and lazily left it in the secondary too long, and it oxidized, I
> guess.  Tasted bad, anyway, with a strong acetaldehyde flavor chief
> among the flaws.  I dumped it - one of the few batches I've ever
> thrown out.  I should brew it again.
> 
> Larry's post is below.  In rereading it, I am surprised at the amount
> of corn sugar I suggested.  I used less in my brew, as did Larry.
> Mine was OG 1.066, FG 1.007.
> 
> BTW, if you want to read about a really legendary Ballantine brew,
> google Ballantine Burton Ale.
> 
> Please post the result if you brew it, and if anything isn't clear,
> let me know.
> 
> Jeff:
> 
> =============
> From: "O'mahoney, Larry (LLOM)" <LLOM at chevron.com>
> Subject: Ballantine IPA
> 
> Since many of you have been waxing nostalgic about "old" styles, CAPs and
> krausening, I think I'll add a little grist to your discussion mills. For
> quite some time, I'd been looking for a recipe to duplicate Ballantine IPA,
> an almost legendary beer (and sponsor of the N.Y. Yankees for many years)
> brewed in Newark, N.J. After some electronic poking around, I was fortunate
> enough to receive a recipe from Jeff Renner.
> 
> I modified Jeff's recipe a little, mostly because I only had 6 lbs. of 6-row
> and 1.5 lbs. of corn sugar.
> 
> Ingredients for 5 gallons               Jeff            My Brew
> 
> 6 row pale ale malt                     6.7 lb.         6.0 lb.
> Light crystal (50-60 L)                 0.75 lb.        0.75 lb. (10 L)
> Flaked Maize                            1.9 lb.         2.0 lb.
> Corn Sugar                              2.6 lb.         1.5 lb.
> 
> Hops
> Bittering: Bullion or Tettanger         1.4 oz.         1.4 oz.
> Flavor: Cluster                         1.4 oz.         1.4 oz.
> Aroma:  Saaz                            0.5 oz.         0.5 oz.
> Dry hop:Saaz                            ---             0.25 oz.
> 
> Bitter to 40-60 IBU. Hop additions were somewhat improvised. I didn't know
> how to partition the bullion and tettanger hops for the bittering, so I used
> 0.7 oz. of each. Using the Garetz method I ended up with 43 IBU calculated.
> I put a very hard crush on the 6 row, and mixed all the grains with 1.2
> quarts/lb. in the mash. I added two tsp. gypsum to the mash, as I have
> extremely soft water. The step infusion was 126 degF/15 min. 153 degF/45
> min. 158 degF/10 min. 165 degF/10 min. The sparge effluent was the most
> beautiful, deep golden color I've ever had. The effluent cleared after less
> than a cup (I use an Easymasher in a 5 gallon SS pot.) The sparge was
> incredibly easy. I don't know why so many people knock 6-row pale malt. It
> is great stuff.
> 
> I boiled for 70 minutes adding the Bullion/Tettanger for 60 minutes, the
> Cluster with 20 minutes to go, Saaz with 5 minutes to go. OG = 1.069  at  60
> degF. I used Wyeast 1098, figuring it would probably be closer to
> traditional British IPA yeasts than Wyeast 1056, although Jeff recommended
> 1056 as the proper yeast used by Ballantine's. I dry-hopped after seven
> days, as several references I have indicate Ballantine was "dramatically"
> dry hopped. After two weeks of single-stage fermenting at 65 degF (FG= 1.012
>  at  60 degF) I bottled using 5 PrimaTabs/22 oz. bottle (I calculated this to
> be equal to about 3 oz. priming sugar per 5 gallons).
> 
> After a week in the bottle, I couldn't wait any longer. Excellent
> carbonation (maybe too much), clearing nicely, great white head, and a bead
> and Belgian lace that lasted over an hour. At this stage the taste could be
> described as raw, muscular. After only one week it was "green" as expected.
> After three weeks, it has mellowed well. It has a complex flavor profile.
> First, there is a good clean, strong bitterness, followed by a very strong
> Cluster flavor. Next, a pleasant but subdued Saaz flavor and aroma. All
> these are underlain by a mild caramel flavor, probably from the crystal.
> Normally, I don't care for caramel flavor in my beer, but this was good. If
> you don't like Cluster flavor, this is not the beer for you. It is very
> alcoholic (calculation ~ 7.1% ABV). Twelve oz. of this beer had me looped!
> 
> It's been decades since I had a commercial Ballantine's, but the moment I
> tasted this IPA it struck a faint memory from somewhere deep in my mind,
> which makes me think that this is a very close rendition of the original
> Ballantine. I'm quite pleased with the results so far. If I were to make any
> changes, I'd increase the 6-row to the original 6.75 lbs., and drop the
> protein rest to 10 minutes. Fifteen minutes was too much for long-lasting
> head retention. I'd maybe decrease the amount of Cluster flavor hops by
> half. The bitterness was very clean, and did not display any of the black
> current flavors many have associated with Bullion hops.
> 
> If there are any former Ballantine brewmasters lurking around out there, I'd
> enjoy your comments on this, to see if I've gotten close to what you used to
> brew.
> 
> BTW, since making the Ballantine's, I've made a CAP again using 6-row malt.
> This really is great grain. Beautiful color, super easy sparge and the
> flavor is fine.
> 
> Larry
> New Orleans
> --
> Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
> "One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:20:07 -0400
From: "May, Jeff" <Jeff.May at uscellular.com>
Subject: Vigorous aeration and finishing hops


I was wondering about something.  I have recently started 
aerating my wort with a SS air stone during pitching.  I am
now achieving the lowest FG I have ever experienced!  
Needless to say, I'm hooked.  However, I'm concerned that
vigorous aeration could drive off most or all of the precious
flavor and aroma from my finishing hops.  Dave Miller talks 
about how aeration can be effective in floating off a large 
portion of the cold break material. The foamy scum is then 
skimmed off. [Miller,Dave:Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide; 
Storey Books; 1995 Pg.181].  I just wonder if this action is 
scrubbing the hop compounds as well.

Jeff May
Mayzerbrau Nano Brewery
Wilmington, NC 
AR [649.7, 148.6]



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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:02:12 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Barley in beer, tri-sodium phosphate and copper chillers

Brewsters:

Randy asks for some details on how much raw barley I include in my brews and
how I prepare it. And I have to answer by saying it depends.  I have used as
much as 2 pounds for a 5 gallon batch using a total grist of 10 pounds if
memory serves.  More normal is a pound. I have included this latter amount
with both two row and six row barley malt batches.

Here's how I prepare it.  I use feed grade barley from the animal feed store
( no fungicides, as in seed grade, please) wash it in three rinses of hot
water and boil it for 30 minutes in twice the volume of water as the barley.
Then allow it to stand and swell overnight ( or for a few hours). It will
swell to absorb the majority of the water and you may have to add a little
more water for the next step.

A quick trip through the blender to "crush" into chunks ( not finely divided)
the now softened and swollen barley - avoid excessive blending - and you are
set to include this in your mash.  Measure and include the water you used in
your calculations.

As I recall, the yield is about 80% or so of normal malt, but then feed grade
barley is of lower quality than the malting grade and will likely vary with
the source.

This is different from a cooked cereal mash in that when I make one of these,
I include some crushed barley malt ( about a pound for a typical adjunct load)
to keep it from sticking to the pot and to lower the viscosity.  In the case
of the raw barley the husk and slow gelatinization keeps this from happening.

Also, Randy, TSP should not attack copper so you can use it.  I would rinse
the chiller very carefully as TSP is a salt and is alkaline and may induce
corrosion if there are any other metallic unions ( like solder) around . After
using it to lift and disperse organics, I suggest a dilute vinegar rinse
followed by water.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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---