HOMEBREW Digest #455 Mon 09 July 1990

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Starter questions (Dale Veeneman)
  Sam Smith sale is over (RUSSG)
  Re:  Keg modifications (was Brewing Equipment) (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
  Diacytl, Samuel Smith, Bleach to clean bottles (Bill Crick)
  Ooops, My mistake! (Mike Charlton)
  Stupid rotten ginger ale again! (cckweiss)
  Xingu (doug)
  followup on Bud kegs (Kenneth R. van Wyk)
  Greg Beary (Dave Suurballe)
  fermentation crude (mage!lou)
  Yo, Joseph Palladino! (I can't send you the Oatmeal Stout digest) (Chris Shenton)
  hombrewing in NYC area (Rick Noah Zucker)
  brewsheet for the Mac (a.e.mossberg)
  Oars in the Water (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Re: Brewing Equipment ("Andy Wilcox")
  In search of O.P. & misc ("J.L. Palladino, Trinity College")
  temperature control (Pete Soper)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Jul 90 8:48:07 EDT From: Dale Veeneman <dev1 at gte.com> Subject: Starter questions When one uses a starter, how long should it go before pitching - a couple hours, one day, two days? Does it make a difference if you're using dry yeast or liquid yeast? Is the addition of hops to the starter mandatory? Finally, does one use the entire bottle of starter or just the sediment (assuming a longer fermentation duration)? Thanks in advance. Dale Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 90 09:04 EST From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET%mitvma.mit.edu at hplb.hpl.hp.com> (RUSSG) Subject: Sam Smith sale is over The sale on SS ales is over. Please, no more requests for the location of the store. I had no idea the thirst(!) for SS ales at that price would be so overwhelming. Just in case(!) I mention a sale again, the store is North End Market (or Variety or something) on the north end of Elm. St. in Manchester, NH. They have a good selection and great prices all the time, although sometimes the freshness of the beer is questionable. Sorry you missed it. Russ Gelinas R_GELINAS at UNHH.BITNET (I'm at University of NH) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 90 08:53:38 PDT From: bobc at Eng.Sun.COM (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering) Subject: Re: Keg modifications (was Brewing Equipment) >> From: Greg Beary <gbeary at uswat.uswest.com> >> Subject: Brewing Equipment >> >> I didn't remove the connections on top, or the long pipe inside. Does >> this need to be done to clean the barrels or am I ok as is? I got my keg system at Christmas. In response to some of the articles here, I did no modifications before trying the first batch in it. Some contend that leaving the long tube as is will work OK; your first pint poured will remove all of the sediment at the bottom of the keg. I found this not to be the case (for me, at least). So, using a tubing cutter, I removed about 1" from the end of the long tube. The next batch of beer came out crystal clear. Others recommend a flexible tubing/float arrangement; I have not tried this. Bob C. Return to table of contents
Date: 5 Jul 90 13:31:20 GMT From: bnrgate!bnr-rsc!crick at uunet.UU.NET (Bill Crick) Subject: Diacytl, Samuel Smith, Bleach to clean bottles I sent this in weeks ago, and it seems to have bounced. My apologies if it has already appeared;-( Someone asked about fining yeast out of beer to avoid the diacytl reduction, and get a beer similar to Samuel Smith. I've been doing this for years. I also boil all of the water. This drives off the oxygen,and I beleive when the yeast is short of oxygen in either the respiration, or reproduction phase, it tends to create more diacytl in the first place. It took me a while to figure out that it was the diacytl that was the secret to my highly popular "house flavors" that a lot of people who tried my beer liked so much. Put 1/3 of recommended gelatin finings in when you rack to secondary. add another 1/3 about a week later, and final 1/3 when you bottle. Note that the fermentation will go slower than you are used to! Has anyone noticed old bottles getting harder to clean? Lately, it seems more and more of my bottles are uncleanable due to a fine foggy deposit on the bottom. I rinse them after emptying as I always have. I can clean them with bleach, but suspect this might be the problem? I have two possible ideas on why this is: 1. The bottles are just getting beat! They have been through about 30 refilling cycles. 2. Using bleach to clean the hard to clean ones has damaged them. (I was once told by the girl who runs the dishwasher in our cafeteria not to clean my tea cup with bleach, because if I did, it would get dirty faster, and I'd have more trouble cleaning it, and would have to keep resorting to bleach to get it clean). Has anyone else heard this story? Maybe the concentration of bleach is a factor. Mayber the use of hot water to clean bottles with bleach is a factor?? Brewius, Ergo Samuel! Bill Crick Return to table of contents
Date: 5 Jul 90 13:07 -0500 From: Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.umanitoba.ca> Subject: Ooops, My mistake! Ooops. I seem to have goofed. Al writes: >Mike Charlton writes: >>we have had alot of trouble with fusel alcohol >>rack off the trub before you pitch the yeast. He maintains that since the >>wort is below 80 degrees F, contamination is not a real problem. >I've seen several references to Miller's book and was shocked. I >don't know if he's been misquoted or Miller himself is misguided. It seems that I may have misquoted him. Unfortunately I can't seem to find my copy of "The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing". That'll teach me to shoot off my mouth when I can't back things up :-). I was, however, quite sure that he mentioned that the wort loving bugs are partial to wort at temps between 180 and 80 degrees F and that this was justification for his practice of letting his wort sit overnight. Pete Soper writes: > Assuming you thought (and I thought) that you were paraphrasing Miller's >book "The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing": Wow; This sets some kind of >record for distortion. [A quote (refuting my statement) from Miller's book deleted] It does seem that I was wrong (too much homebrew, I guess!) >> We decided >>to pitch the yeast immediately (more for time reasons than for worrying) so >>we were not able to rack off the trub. I have two questions (finally). > Why not? We didn't have enough time the next day to rack off the trub. For some reason I'm also under the impression that the fusel alcohol whose production can be attributed to the trub, is produced within the first day or two of fermentation. Does anyone know if this is true? (I just know I'm going to get into trouble again -- I can feel it!). If this is the case, then racking after you start the fermentation may be fruitless. Anyway, I'm sorry for any misinformation I've propagated. Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 90 13:38:29 -0700 From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu Subject: Stupid rotten ginger ale again! Apologies if I'm becoming tiresome on this subject, but yet another weird occurance has fallen upon my latest batch of beer (Ginger Pale Ale). If anyone can offer a clue, I'd be a much more relaxed person. I tasted the first bottle of this batch about 10 days after bottling. It tasted okay, and had good carbonation and a nice head. It was very clear, maybe even brilliant. I have opened six more bottles of this beer. Every bottle has been absolutely flat, no carbonation at all. I noticed a small 'ring around the collar', which has been mentioned as a warning sign of bacterial infection. I was ready for a gusher, but not for flat beer! There is no taste discernable to my (abused and untrained) palate that would indicate that there really is an infection. I suppose it's possible that I mis-capped six bottles in a row, but it doesn't seem likely. It also doesn't seem likely that the priming sugar could have been so poorly distributed through the beer as to result in some bottles being okay and some being completely flat. Ditto for yeast. Here's the exact procedure I followed for bottling: Before bottling, I ran all my bottles through the dishwasher with no soap. I use a glass carboy for a secondary. I filled my siphon hose with bleach solution (mild), put the siphon in the carboy, and siphoned out about a pint of beer, to make sure that all the bleach was run out of the hose. I then added my cooled priming sugar syrup and 1 packet of Knox unflavored gelatin (dissolved in cool water) directly to the carboy. I gave the carboy a stir with the racking tube and proceeded to fill all my bottles. I then capped all the bottles, using boiled bottle caps, and one of those cappers that looks kind of like a drill press. The yeast used was Edme ale yeast, and the bottles have been sitting at around 70 degrees F. Woe is me. I don't really want to bottle another batch until I figure out what happened to this one. HELP!! Ken Weiss krweiss at ucdavis.edu cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 90 18:09:16 EDT From: hisata!doug at gatech.edu Subject: Xingu Mike Zentner asked if anyone has ever had Xingu beer. I had it a few wks ago when I was in Boston and it was delicious! Also, about the darkest beer I've ever seen--I couldn't see a bit of light through it. I seem to have as very vague recollection of reading about it some time ago in rec.food.drink. I know it's made by the Amazon Indians. I seem to recall reading that the grains are ground by Indian women chewing the grains then spitting them into a vat. This would, of course, introduce more enzymes. Has anyone else heard this, or am I just contributing to urban legends? Can anyone provide some enlightenment about this beer? Doug gatech!hisata!doug Return to table of contents
Date: 5 Jul 90 21:13:59 EDT (Thu) From: hplabs!gatech!oldale.pgh.pa.us!ken (Kenneth R. van Wyk) Subject: followup on Bud kegs After bringing it up here on the digest, I walked into a beer distributor (don't ask, it's Pennsylvania...) this evening looking for an empty keg of Budwieser. First two places said no go - "it's against the law to sell empty kegs in PA". Third place was all for it; the clerk was helpful and sounded real interested in the idea of homebrew. After a round of "how's it taste", "how much is it", and "how long does it take" questions, I got my 1/4 keg of Bud for $10, the price of the deposit. Hmmm. Looked a bit like aluminum to me. I figured no problem, if it's not what I want, I'll just return it for the deposit (before cutting it apart...). Got home, and it didn't pass the refrigerator magnet test (magnets stick to steel, dontchaknow). Bud kegs are made out of aluminum. :-( Now, there are those out there right now getting ready to hit the REPLY key to say that aluminum is just fine. Lord *knows* I don't want to be responsible for starting *that* holy war this time. I'm not saying that aluminum is any better or worse than stainless steel; merely that it wasn't what *I* was looking for. It was certainly worth the try, though. I'm interested to hear what other folks come up with. Are there any stainless steel kegs that would be suitable for modifying into brew kettles out there? Meanwhile, my latest ale, a half-mashed effort, is fermenting away downstairs. Any other half-mashers out there want to compare war stories? Using 3.3 lbs. extract and 4 lbs. grain, I get an OG of 1.046 - with only a wort chiller and sparge bag (total cost $15) in addition to my all-extract equipment. The effort has paid off for me. Cheers, Ken van Wyk krvw at cert.sei.cmu.edu (work) ken at oldale.pgh.pa.us (home) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 90 19:03:08 PDT From: hsfmsh.UUCP!suurb at cgl.ucsf.EDU (Dave Suurballe) Subject: Greg Beary Greg Beary! Go out to your garage and empty those Cornelius cans the minute you get home. Chlorine bleach is corrosive to the stainless steel. I know. I ruined one that way, and I had bought it new and never used it. I sterilize them now with Clorox before use. Between uses, I store them upside down, dry, and disassembled. Suurb Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 90 22:35:23 MDT From: hplabs!mage!lou Subject: fermentation crude In HBD #454 Mitch Evans writes: >I get an ugly brown residue along the wort/air boundary during my >initial fermentation. I have been assuming that this is yeast, or some >other related (read non-nasty) product of the fermentation process. BUT, >with all of the sanitation articles floating around, I have begun to >worry. I take very intricate precautions with sanitation, and would hate >to think I have been allowing mold or other critters into my beer for the >past two years ;) Mitch, I think you have a bad case of the worries. Take two homebrews and call me in the morning :,) I think your initial assumption is correct and this is some non-nasty by product of fermentation. I use the blow-off method and always get some of this gunk adhering to the top of my carboy and the rest gets blown off. This is one of the reasons why I like using blow-off. More to the point, however, is that there are at least as many "right" ways to brew as there are brewers. If you like the beer you have brewed over the last two years then you are doing it right. If something about your technique fails to meet someone else's sense of esthetics, well that is their problem not yours. If you didn't like your beers then maybe you should be concerned, but don't look for problems without a reason. Louis Clark Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 90 11:24:40 EDT From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Yo, Joseph Palladino! (I can't send you the Oatmeal Stout digest) Sorry for the broadcast, but I can't reach you, Joe. Can you get me another address? As you can see below, I've even tried routine through uunet... Help! Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown From: MAILER-DAEMON at uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 <palladin at muscle.trincoll.edu at uunet.uu.net>... Host unknown I'd hate to post the message here -- it's 10K... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 90 10:42:41 -0700 From: noah at cs.washington.edu (Rick Noah Zucker) Subject: hombrewing in NYC area I have just returned from a trip back east. Two of my friends were very interested in learning about homebrewing since I have taken it up. What I was wondering was: 1) does anybody know of a homebrew organization in the New York City area? One of my friends would prefer having the opportunity to watch over someone's shoulder to get a feel for what is involved before going out and getting all the equipment (which could take a fair amount of space in a small Manhattan apartment). 2) Does anyone know of homebrew supplies stores in the New York area? I found only one which was on Spring Street. This guy also sells wine making equipment, coffee and tea. I found it surprising that NYC has only one store since we in Seattle we have four or five stores that are pure brewing supply places. Rick Zucker noah at cs.washington.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 90 14:09:33 EDT From: a.e.mossberg <aem at mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU> Subject: brewsheet for the Mac Frederic Brehm has ported Chris Stenton's TeX brewsheet to Microsoft Word 4.0 for the Mac, and it is now available at the homebrew archives on mthvax.cs.miami.edu as ~ftp/pub/homebrew/brewsheet.sit.hqx aem Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 90 14:19:21 PDT From: Martin A. Lodahl <hplabs!pbmoss!mal> Subject: Oars in the Water HOMEBREW Digest #454 was rich indeed. Mitch Evans asked: > I get an ugly brown residue along the wort/air boundary during my >initial fermentation. I have been assuming that this is yeast, or some >other related (read non-nasty) product of the fermentation process.. This is a source of great debate among ale brewers. At various times I've been told that it must be skimmed off to avoid off flavors, that skimming it off poses more of an infection hazard than it's worth, that blowoff fermentation is superior because it gets rid of this brown stuff, and that blowoff fermentation is needlessly wasteful because it gets rid of a portion of the beer, including this brown stuff. I truly can't tell the difference, having had good batches each way. Beers I've brewed where I've allowed the brown kreusen to sink back into the beer have shown no sign of infection. Algis R Korzonas observed: >Charlie Papazian says "fusel oils." I don't know which is correct. My father, a homebrewer and moonshiner during prohibition, used the same term, as did the moonshiner who pointed out to me the (oily) appearance of the fusels on the surface of a batch of fresh distillate. Chemically, though, I've been told their alcohols. And concerning the feud over Miller's recommendations: I've followed the suggestion in the paragraph Pete quoted, and it works. Chilling right down to the 30's produces a truly impressive cold break, and leaving it to slowly warm up to pitching temperature over night assures trub removal without yeast loss. Removing brown krausen hasn't made a difference in my beer that I could taste, but removing trub sure has. The "wort spoilers" seem only to thrive in a specific temperature range, so the trick seems to be to move through that range as quickly as possible. Granted, handling the beer again (racking unpitched wort from the settling vessel to the fermentor) when it's at pitching temperature presents a significant risk, but one I believe to be justified by the results. And Gary F. Mason echoed my own mind: >If one wishes to aerate the wort when pitching yeast, and have it >mixed well too, wouldn't the ideal method be to pour the starter into >the fermenter first, then rack the wort in on top of it in a splashy >manner? That same thought struck me, so I tried it. Works fine. = Martin A. Lodahl Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff = = pacbell!pbmoss!mal -or- mal at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM 916.972.4821 = = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, = = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) = Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 90 22:19:09 EDT From: "Andy Wilcox" <andy at mosquito.cis.ufl.edu> Subject: Re: Brewing Equipment Using those stainless bud kegs is a great idea. In days past, my college roomates and I made a STILL out of a 7.5 gallon keg. It produced liquid *so* frightening (we used a slobber box and all, really quite elaborate), we only used it once. But I digress... Does anybody have the "definitive guide" to brewing/fermenting with these kegs? How big a hole should you cut in the brew pot? Using the big kegs (15.5g) to make 2 or 3 5gal kegs is a great and very appealing idea. I'd love to hear experiences from anybody whose done it. -Andy Wilcox (andy at ufl.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 90 13:53 EST From: "J.L. Palladino, Trinity College" <PALLADIN at vax1.trincoll.edu> Subject: In search of O.P. & misc Greetings: 1) Has anyone succeeded in replicating Theakson's (?) Old Peculiar? Papazian suggests adding a cup of molasses to a pale ale recipe. Does this work? I just started a batch using 1 cup unsulphered molasses added to 6.6lbs extra light extract, 1.5# crystal and 0.5# toasted malt. 2) What is the current consensus on Edme dry yeast? I was suprised to notice that the package doesn't specify ale or lager but rather that it is 'good for all types of beers' or something like that. I suspect it is a top fermenter. I pitched at 2:00 and by 6:00 there was a very active fermentation going on (at 68 deg F)! I'm not worrying or anything, just curious. Thanks, Joe P. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 90 21:06:19 EDT From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com> Subject: temperature control ___Chill-Fining In a recent Digest cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu (Ken Weiss) wrote: >Does anyone know how commercially produced beers like Sierra Nevada get >the yeast in the bottle to get kind of hard, so it doesn't cloud up the >beer when poured? I think the answer to this is that 1) the yeast packs very well and 2) Sierra Nevada doesn't let much sediment into the bottle in the first place. In January of 1989 Rob Gardner wrote this in the Digest: >I have started using a fairly simple method to reduce the sediment in >the bottle, even with single-stage fermented beers. Just before >bottling, I place the entire fermenter in a cold place. I have >successfully used the fridge, the wintery outdoors, and a tub of >ice-water. The fermenter should stay in this cold place for 12-24 >hours. During this time, a ton of yeast will settle out of the beer to >the bottom of the fermenter (and will therefore not be available to >settle on the bottom of your beer bottles. ;-) After bottling, you >should store the beer at whatever temperature you would have >ordinarily for conditioning. Rob's posting happened to come when it was around 20 degrees F outside my house. Instead of bottling my next batch of beer as usual I first put the carboy of wort in the garage and marveled at the layers of sediment that fell out of it, leaving ever clearer bands of wort above. After a couple days I bottled as usual and enjoyed a drastic decrease in the amount of sediment in each bottle. Seventeen months and many sample points later I'm here to tell you that Rob's scheme works very well. I use a fridge instead of Mother Nature except when it is cold here (about 48 hours per year :-). Chilling for 1 to 4 days at 40-50 degrees is usually enough to give me beers with just the slightest smudge of sediment. If I am extra careful during the racking prior to bottling and the yeast is a type that packs well then I don't even get a smudge - just a layer of yeast stuck to the glass on the bottom of the bottle. Not only is there still enough yeast left to provide carbonation but bottling after chilling results in more dissolved CO2 than I would otherwise get since the chilled beer looses a lot less during the bottling process. So I actually get a head start on carbonation and can get away with less priming ingredients than I would otherwise use (in fact it is important to take this into account to avoid over-carbonation). Note that depending upon the temperature of your fermentation before you chill, your mileage (in the form of dissolved CO2) will vary. I know that those of you without a spare fridge can't get too excited at this time of year. So for you I'd suggest parking this idea away for a cold day unless you can get a good deal on ice. And sure, this is mainly just a time tradeoff. Given enough time the yeast will settle out properly at room temperature, but who wants to wait? This scheme is also of course just for warm-fermented beers. ___T-shirt cooling This is a followup about evaporative cooling of fermenters. I recently started a porter fermenting and since my fridge was tied up with lagering another beer I couldn't use it. So I used the wet T-shirt trick but this time I instrumented everything to track the actual temperatures. Note that I had a little fan blowing air on the T-shirt constantly and the fermenter (7 gallon glass holding 5.6 gallons of wort) was in a pan of water so the shirt was constantly wicking water up. Also, this was in a small bathroom which was kept with the A/C vent open fully and the door shut all the time. Outdoor highs were generally upper-80s to mid-90s and lows were around 65. The house A/C thermostat was set at 77 degrees. I had a thermometer under the T-shirt and in contact with the glass of the fermenter, an electronic thermometer probe in the wort and a third thermometer to measure the overall bathroom temperature. In addition I took rough measurements of the time between fermentation lock "glubs". Here is what I measured: Day inside under in lock glubs bathroom T-shirt wort per minute 0,1pm 65 59 75 0 0,8pm 65 59 65 1 1,8am 71 66 67 10 1,6pm 68 62 63 30 2,8am 71 66 68 120 2,6pm 65 60 62 90 2,8pm 65 60 62 40 3,8am 71 66 68 30 3,6pm 65 61 62 2 4,8am 68 65 65 4 4,6pm 64 61 61 2 5,8am 69 64 65 2 5,5pm 64 60 61 1 6,8am 70 65 65 1 I was concerned with getting the wort temperature down after pitching since it is against my religion to exceed 70 degrees with an ale fermentation and my tap water is so warm my chiller wouldn't do any better than 75. Anyway, I was pouring water on the T-shirt to augment the wicking action and hoping for the best when I put the thermometer in the wort a few hours later. I was amazed to see that the wort had cooled 10 degrees in 7 hours. Despite the large drop in temperature I had CO2 production after just a few hours and a nice cover of foam a few hours after that. Except for the first few hours I relied on the wicking action of the shirt to keep it wet. Note that it is important that the shirt be all-cotton or as close to this as possible. The more polyester in the shirt the less effective the wicking will be. One observation is that when the temperature outside the house was high the A/C ran a lot which pumped a lot of cold, dry air into the bathroom containing the fermenter. As can be seen, the wort temperature was driven down at the end of each day's A/C activity and warmed back up overnight when the A/C was almost idle (and the air in the bathroom grew damp). Before you conclude that large temperature drops don't matter, let me share a a thought. Maybe it is superstitious, but maybe not. I believe that if I had pitched a liquid culture, even with a starter, the 10 degree drop in wort temperature might have created a big problem. As it was with 14 grams of very carefully rehydrated yeast (Whitbread Ale) I got away with it. I bring this up because I have been sloppy with temperatures while using liquid cultures in the past and I've gotten nailed more than once. So If I were going to do this again with a liquid yeast I might arrange for the starter to be at 70 degrees and pitch it into the wort after perhaps 3 hours of "shirt cooling" to more carefully match up the temperatures. ___Rehydration temperatures Speaking of rehydration, I've got a scheme for this now that works well for me. I boil two beakers of water in my microwave oven with a temperature probe in one. I then let the water cool until the measured sample is at 105 degrees. I assume the microwaves slaughter anything in the air in the microwave and the boiling takes care of the water in the beakers. I then mix the dried yeast into the other beaker, slap some aluminum foil on it and put both beakers into a shallow pan of water with a couple ice cubes. Over roughly a half hour the control beaker drops from 105 to 75 degrees (and I assume the yeast+water is at a similar or lower temperature. The added yeast should drop it down but the foil cover would tend to slow cooling). Then I pitch the yeast and water slurry which is foaming nicely and matched very closely to the temperature of my ale wort. I had not used the pan of water in the past and found it took 3/4 of forever to drop from 105 to the wort temperature. ___Fridge-power To give you an idea of how impressive that 10 degree drop with a wet T-shirt was let me compare it with something else I did recently. In making a batch of lager recently I cooled 5.3 gallons of wort in my spare fridge, which is a full sized model capable of running down to 5 degrees F (god knows what the freezer section goes to!). It took this fridge, pre-cooled to 28 degrees and running flat-out afterward, 3 hours to drop my lager wort from 70 to 60 degrees. It took 3 more hours to get from 60 to 53 degrees. So in comparison evaporative cooling with a T-shirt and house A/C looks pretty good. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #455, 07/09/90 ************************************* -------
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