HOMEBREW Digest #456 Tue 10 July 1990

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Oatmeal (CRF)
  Xingu Beer (Ihor W. Slabicky)
  Ginger Beer, kegs, and lauter tun (Eric Pepke)
  Bud Kegs & Magnets (S_KOZA1)
  Stupid rotten ginger ale again! (Doug Roberts)
  followup on Bud kegs (Doug Roberts)
  In search of O.P. & misc (Doug Roberts)
  Brewpub (RUSSG)
  Re: ginger ale problems (Glenn Colon-Bonet)
  Bleach/Borax (boubez)
  When to pitch starter (cckweiss)
  Follow up on Bud kegs (Dave Brown)
  XINGU (David Baer)
  Hard Water and Fermentation Startup (Mark Law)
  Stainless, and Magnets? (Bill Crick)
  Re: Xingu (a.e.mossberg)
  AUTO ANSWER MESSAGE. (mike_schrempp)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 10:12 EST From: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU Subject: Oatmeal Hi there! All of the recent discussion about oatmeal stouts (particularly Sam. Smiths) has had me thinking about something, and I decided to see what you lot had to say. In cooking, when one is preparing British recipes calling for oatmeal, one goes out and buys British oatmeal. The reason for this is that British oatmeal is prepared and cut entirely differently from American oatmeal (i.e., Quaker Oats). If one used American oatmeal, chances are the recipe wouldn't turn out very well. Why shouldn't the same hold true for brewing? After all, ingredient processing/preparation is important in brewing too. That this might be a valid point occurred to me when I received and read Chris Shenton's oatmeal recipe digest. On reading the recipes, I realized that I was automatically planning to go to a local store that carries British oatmeal, and buy and use that. Based on my cooking experience, I was automatically assuming that the type of oatmeal would make a significant difference. While I still plan to buy and use British oatmeal whenever I get around to making the stout (right now my framboise is still making me crazy; that's enough for the time being :-), I was wondering what others' reactions to this idea might be. So: what do y'all think? Yours in Carbonation, Cher "God save you from a bad neighbor and from a beginner on the fiddle." -- Italian proverb ============================================================================= Cheryl Feinstein INTERNET: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU Univ. of Fla. BITNET: CRF at UFPINE Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 10:05:25 -0400 From: iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Ihor W. Slabicky) Subject: Xingu Beer From: hpfcla!hplabs!gatech!ee.ecn.purdue.edu!zentner (Mike Zentner) Subject: Spruce Essence PS. Does anybody else out there like the taste (or ever had) Xingu Black Beer from Brazil? I have had it and I like it. It reminds me a little of the smokey flavor of the steinbier (sp?) available from Europe - the one where the brew is heated by dropping red hot stones into the mash to heat it up. I think that Xingu has a very nice flavor and look - a dark, black, smokey lager. Yes, lager, even tho it looks like a great stout. The following I had posted to rec.food.drink some time ago, and is lifted from an article in All About Beer about 2 years ago: Xingu - pronounced 'SHIN goo' comes from the Caccador Brewery, State of Santa Catarina, Brazil (~600 miles southwest of Rio). It is an Indian recipe converted to a brew of barley, water, hops, and yeast. The grain is roasted by open fire malting. It is a black, dense, opaque, LAGER beer. It is brewed on site, using Brazilian hops and barley. The brew was developed by Alan D. Eames. Brazil used to brew quite a few great 'black' or 'escura' lagers. Unfortunately, these have been discontinued in favor of lager production by the majors (Brahma, Kaiser, and Antartica). The Indian tribes along the Xingu river and it's tributaries (Amazon area) still brew these beers. Their process is basically malted grains, lupine herbs, and airborne yeasts - with the women chewing the grain and spitting the mash into pots, the resulting 'mash' being cooked over open fires and giving the beer it's 'blackness' from the smoke - and lagered in underground clay pots. Eames took their recipe and converted it to a commercial process. The resulting brew pours and looks like a stout but tastes like a lager. It is BLACK. It has ~4 % alcohol by volume. It is distributed by Caparra Sales Co., Randolph, MA (617) 986-2337. Maine artist Eric Green painted the Xingu label, based on antique maps of the Xingu river region and included a Txukahamei warrior with a lip disk. It is available in NYCity in the SoHo area - a deli on the east side of Broadway, about three blocks north of Houston Street has it. Also in Boston, at Ballards package stores... Ihor Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 1990 10:35:55 EDT From: PEPKE at scri2.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) Subject: Ginger Beer, kegs, and lauter tun 1) Ken Weiss' ginger ale problem Since I was a kid I used to make regular ginger ale (sweet, little alcohol). It involved peeling and slicing a few ounces of ginger. Now, peeling ginger is a pain, so I made one batch without peeling it. The overnight fermentation in the pot went fine, producing the appropriate amount of bubbles. However, after I bottled it, no more fermentation occurred, and the ginger ale was flat. I speculated that there was something in the peel of ginger which yeast marginally disliked. The ginger had been boiled, so organisms in the peel were not to blame. Since then I have always carefully peeled the ginger first and have had no problems. I haven't tested this under controlled conditions, so it may be all wet. 2) Stainless steel kegs I, too, am interested in finding small stainless kegs for use as kettles. I don't want to use aluminum for the simple reason that I want to hang some dohickeys off of the kettle, and unless you have a heliarc setup (which I don't) aluminum is a pain. So, I would be interested in anybody's experience of which brands of kegs are aluminum and which (if any) are stainless. 3) Lauter tun I have improvised a great lauter tun, which others might find useful. It's a Coleman 2-gallon cooler with a spigot at the bottom, and a stainless steel vegetable steamer at the bottom. This arrangement allows the sparging of the mash of about 7 pounds of grain. If the grain is properly crushed, no bag is needed. The flow rate is quite satisfyingly slow. The cooler is insulated, so the temperature of the water stays at the right level. The spigot can be wedged open with a fork handle, allowing relatively unattended sparging. Also, the Coleman is comparatively inexpensive. I sparged some mash a couple of weeks ago with this arrangement and got quite an efficient sparge. I didn't use a flushing tube but just filled the bottom with hot water before adding the mash, as Noonan suggests. Only a small amount of the initial runoff needed to be run through the mash again. Unfortunately, I later had an accident which involved boiling wort and my foot. Though my foot has, for the most part, regenerated, the wort is forever lost, so I will not know how effective it was in the long run. When I can figure out a safer arrangement, I will try again. Eric Pepke INTERNET: pepke at gw.scri.fsu.edu Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET: pepke at fsu Florida State University SPAN: scri::pepke Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 BITNET: pepke at fsu Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions. Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 10:42 EST From: <S_KOZA1%UNHH.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu> Subject: Bud Kegs & Magnets Hi All, Many stainless steel alloys have little to no magnetic susceptibility and Bud kegs could be produced from one of these. My first impression is that if the kegs are indeed aluminum they would need to have a special internal coating to avoid a severe dissolution of Al in the carbonated and low pH brew. Is there a lining? If there isn't one I would think that the keg is indeed stainless steel. If there is one it is possibly Al and if you didn't want to use it for wort boiling it would still make a SUPER lobster or steamed clam pot 8-). Happy Fermentations, Stephan M. Koza Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 08:59:20 MDT From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts) Subject: Stupid rotten ginger ale again! [Description of beer that is flat after priming & bottline...] Your procedure sounded fine to me, so the only thing left that I would suspect is your bottle capper and/or bottle caps. - --Doug Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 09:02:38 MDT From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts) Subject: followup on Bud kegs > Hmmm. Looked a bit like aluminum to me. I figured no problem, if > it's not what I want, I'll just return it for the deposit (before > cutting it apart...). Got home, and it didn't pass the refrigerator > magnet test (magnets stick to steel, dontchaknow). Bud kegs are made > out of aluminum. :-( > Some Bud kegs may be made out of aluminium. The one I have is stainless, *and* be advised that magnets will not stick to many alloys of stainless steel. If I were you, I'd have someone else look at your keg to be sure. - --Doug ================================================================ Douglas Roberts | Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything Box 1663, MS F-609 | except temptation. Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545 | ... (505)667-4569 |Oscar Wilde dzzr at lanl.gov | ================================================================ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 09:11:10 MDT From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts) Subject: In search of O.P. & misc > 2) What is the current consensus on Edme dry yeast? I was suprised to > notice that the package doesn't specify ale or lager but rather that > it is 'good for all types of beers' or something like that. I suspect it > is a top fermenter. I pitched at 2:00 and by 6:00 there was a very > active fermentation going on (at 68 deg F)! My own personal experience with Edme (ale -- I don't think they even make a lager yeast) is that is only so - so. I thought it generated a kind of off flavor that might be described as slightly rancid. Lots of other people seem satisfied with it, however. - --Doug ================================================================ Douglas Roberts | Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything Box 1663, MS F-609 | except temptation. Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545 | ... (505)667-4569 |Oscar Wilde dzzr at lanl.gov | ================================================================ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 11:17 EST From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu> (RUSSG) Subject: Brewpub For those of you in the Boston/MIT area: Go to the Cambridge Brewing Co. brewpub in Kendall square, near Draper Labs. Top-notch brew, MUCH better than the Commonwealth Brewery. That's all, just go. Russ Gelinas R_GELINAS at UNHH.BITNET Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 09:31:52 mdt From: Glenn Colon-Bonet <gcb at hpfigcb.hp.com> Subject: Re: ginger ale problems Full-Name: Glenn Colon-Bonet In Homebrew Digest #455 Ken Weiss writes: > I have opened six more bottles of this beer. Every bottle has been > absolutely flat, no carbonation at all. I noticed a small 'ring around > the collar', which has been mentioned as a warning sign of bacterial > infection. I've had a very similar experience with my second batch of beer, in which 9 out of every 10 bottles were uncarbonated and showed signs of infection. The remaining 1 bottle was perfect! Upon inspecting the bottlecaps that I was using, it was clear that these cork lined caps tend to dry out and crack, allowing the carbonation to escape and infection to enter. Check the bottlecaps that you are using because they can certainly cause problems like this. I would tend to suspect your bottling equipment rather than a simple infection, especially since there was no sign of infection immediately prior to bottling. Hope this helps! -Glenn gcb%hpfigcb at hplabs.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 11:55:40 EDT From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu Subject: Bleach/Borax Hi there! What are homebrewers' opinions about using Borax instead of bleach? We've been using it at home for household cleaning (this IS Earth Year, after all (-: ) and I was wondering about using for my homebrew cleaning and sterilising. toufic Toufic Boubez boubez at caip.rutgers.edu - -- We didn't inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrowed it from our descendants. -- H.D. Thoreau Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 08:23:01 -0700 From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu Subject: When to pitch starter Dale Veeneman asked about the correct timing for pitching a starter into the wort. According to my impeccable source - the label on a package of Wyeast liquid yeast - the starter should be pitched when it reaches "high kraeusen". I've been interperting this to mean when you've got a nice layer of foam on top. Works for me, as I get lots of activity in my wort within 12 hours of pitching the starter. I've been opening one bottle of the cursed Ginger Pale Ale each day. Yesterday's bottle actually had a small trace of carbonation. Could the gelatin finings slow fermentation down that much? I'm now 14 days since bottling. The beer is still *crystal* clear, but basically uncarbonated. I had a thought on a blow-off system I'd like to bounce off the group. I've noticed in my tours of microbreweries that their blow-off system is simply a tube that comes out the top of the fermentor, and bends 90 degrees, extends out past the side of the vessel, and turns 90 degrees down. The tube simply dangles there about three feet off the floor, and a bucket is placed below to catch the blow-off. What I'm thinking about is the exact same system, but scaled down to 5 gallon carboy size, and using pyrex lab tubing instead of stainless. That way I could just immerse the tube in bleach solution to clean it, and boil it if things got really nasty. Reactions? Ken Weiss krweiss at ucdavis.edu cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 10:02:51 PDT From: brown at ocelot.llnl.gov (Dave Brown) Subject: Follow up on Bud kegs I must admit that I am the one that started Ken on a search for Bud Kegs. I purchased a book from the person who started Buffallo Bill's a local Brew Pub here in the Bay Area. In this book he claims that Bud Kegs are Stainless Steel and make great brew pots. Well I think he's mistaken as well. Ken writes: Hmmm. Looked a bit like aluminum to me. I figured no problem, if it's not what I want, I'll just return it for the deposit (before cutting it apart...). Got home, and it didn't pass the refrigerator magnet test (magnets stick to steel, dontchaknow). Bud kegs are made out of aluminum. :-( Yes, I purchased a Keg a few weeks ago, but I just got time to test out my Keg this weekend. It seems like aluminum to me too. I tried the magnet test: it sticks to my 4 1/2 gallon stainless stell pot, but not to the keg. Since Bud sells beer in aluminum cans, I am sure they would have no hesitation to sell a keg of beer in aluminum. Since I want a 15 gallon pot, and a 15 gallon stainless steel pot is way out of my price range (try $250-$350), I might still consider using it. Now, I don't want to start a holy way either, but since I haven't following this debate, can somebody from each camp, Stainless Steel and Aluminum reprise your best arguments *briefly*. David. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 10:25:37 PDT From: dsbaer at EBay.Sun.COM (David Baer) Subject: XINGU I have tried Xingu black beer a number of times. It is very mild and like a milk-stout without as much residual sweetness. Very nice beer. To confirms doug's statement about Indian Spit as part of the Xingu recipe: About a year ago the San Francisco Chronicle ran an article about the fellow that brought Xingu from the Amazon. I can't remember his name, but I'll look in my files and see if I can find the article. Well, the article said that the original recipe did include a process where the women of the tribe that brewed Xingu actually chewed the barley and then spit it into the mash. I think this added pepsin (??) or some enzyme that acted like amalyse and broke down starches into sugars. The article finished by qualifying the above statements saying the brewery in the Amazon today uses more "modern" methods. So I think it is safe to say the tribal spitting no longer takes place and Xingu uses more Imperial practices. Try it you'll like it, Dave Baer (Sun Micro, soon to be Stanford U.) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 90 16:28:55 -0400 From: Mark Law <law at iec.ufl.edu> Subject: Hard Water and Fermentation Startup Most of my previous batches made with Wyeast have gotten a fairly active fermentation going within 12 hours of pitching. My most recent batch, however, has been a real slow starter with very little CO2 even 36 hours after pitching. The temperature of the wort has been about the same and the original gravities have been in the same range. The main difference is that in the most recent batch I added a tablespoon of gypsum. Has anyone ever noticed a correlation between the hardness of the water and the rate of fermentation? I can't really identify any other possible cause. -Mark Law law at iec.ufl.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 9 Jul 90 21:10:14 GMT From: bnrgate!bnr-rsc!crick at uunet.UU.NET (Bill Crick) Subject: Stainless, and Magnets? Someone mentioned testing to see if a keg was stainless steel, by trying a magnet on it? isn't Stainless steel nonmagnetic (paramagnetic?)? Maybe tring to file it to see how hard it is would work? I also believe that a normal oxy-acetylene torch won't cut stainless? Brewius Error Sum? Bill Crick Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 90 03:20:23 GMT From: aem at mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU (a.e.mossberg) Subject: Re: Xingu In digest <1990Jul9.071138.2479 at mthvax.cs.miami.edu> homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com (CHANGE THIS IF NECESSARY) writes: >I seem to have as very vague recollection of reading about it some time >ago in rec.food.drink. I know it's made by the Amazon Indians. I seem >to recall reading that the grains are ground by Indian women chewing the >grains then spitting them into a vat. This would, of course, introduce >more enzymes. Has anyone else heard this, or am I just contributing to >urban legends? Can anyone provide some enlightenment about this beer? It is a commercial beer, *inspired* by a traditional black beer of an indian tribe. Indians do not make it, or have anything to do with its production. The process of making it is not even close to that of the indian's black beer. The owners of the brewery might spit in the vats to bug gringos though. aem - -- a.e.mossberg / aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem at umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion You are what you watch. - The Media Foundation Return to table of contents
Date: 9 Jul 90 17:08 -0800 From: mike_schrempp%14 at hpg200.desk.hp.com Subject: AUTO ANSWER MESSAGE. Hello, I have changed jobs and now work at PCG in Sunnyvale. My new HPDesk address is hp4200. My phone number is 720-3279. Please review your distribution lists and remove my name if it is no longer appropriate. Thanks, Mike Schrempp Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #456, 07/10/90 ************************************* -------
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 06/29/00, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96