---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

                  Beer, Beer, and More Beer
      Visit http://morebeer.com to show your appreciation!

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Re: Try It For Yourself ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Re: O2 & Yeast ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Try It For Yourself and Hops Containers (Robert Sandefer)
  Berliner Weisse and Alt (Robert Sandefer)
  Grind and efficiency ("Andrew Tate")
  re: CO2 Regulator Problems (K.M.)" <kmuell18@visteon.com>
  Re: Wine Oxidation--Wine Bottle Headspace Pump (Jeff Renner)
  Growing hops in containers ("Jay Spies")
  Upper Mississippi Mash-Out Moving ("Steve Fletty")
  Cleaning Sankey Keg fermenter ("Cave, Jim")
  Brewing with Steam (Bill Velek)


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*           The HBD Logo Store is now open!             *
*            http://www.hbd.org/store.html              *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*  Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*   Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:42:31 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Try It For Yourself

On Saturday, 21 August 2004 at 21:52:45 +1000, Phil Yates wrote:
> Fred L. Johnson writes:
>> Hey, I, too, want to believe I can reduce my mash time to 20 minutes,
>> but please give me some data to convince me it works!
>
> Fred
> I'm surprised that after all these years of brewing, you're still wanting
> someone else's data on what does and doesn't work. Why don't you try a 20
> minute mash for yourself? Then you will have your very own results from your
> very own experiment. You won't need anyone else's data. If it doesn't work,
> you won't do it again.

One obvious reason: if somebody says "I've tried that, and it gives
results that makes Bud Light look good", you might save yourself a lot
of effort and some expense.  

A similar example: I've had some trouble with yeast viability, which I
think is related to the water I use (rain water with *no* minerals
whatsoever).  Some of the brews had an unpleasant phenolic taste, and
I finally got rid of it with a combination of heavy wort aeration
(another sensitive button) and about 20 ppm of magnesium in the wort.

So which made the difference?  To find out, I'd have to retrace my
steps and make another ruined batch of beer.  Guess how much interest
I have in doing that.

Greg
- --
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:46:45 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: O2 & Yeast

On Saturday, 21 August 2004 at 18:51:23 -0400, Dave and Joan King wrote:
> Yes, the yeast need the O2 to reproduce with.  Even a big starter can't
> begin to hold enough O2 for a 5 gallon batch.  It's good to pitch a big
> starter, near high Krausen, no doubt, but trying to saturate the whole wort
> (once it's cooled down) is best.  You can't practically have too
> much yeast.

David Logsdon of Wyeast seems to disagree.  In a talk he had round
here a few months back, he specifically stated that you shouldn't
pitch Weizen beers as heavily as others.  To quote:

  "He then suggested 1 kg/hectolitre (hl) of yeast slurry for ales,
  but not more than 1/2 kg/hl for wheat beers. Overpitching is also
  bad, though not as bad as underpitching."

See http://www.lemis.com/grog/brewing/yeast-talk.html for my
report on the visit.

Greg
- --
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:53:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Sandefer <robertsandefer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Try It For Yourself and Hops Containers

>Why do so many brewers want data about things they
can try for 
>themselves?
>There is nothing to fear about trying something for
yourself (if you 
>are
>curious) and making your own determination.

Good point. On the other hand, there are good reasons
to ask others' experiences/opinions/data.
Personally, my brewing list is so long that it will
take at least two years of constant brewing to
complete. 
Also, any personal experience is still a single point.
By comparing results with other brewers, we can as a
community determine knowledge (rather than just
anecdotes).

Hops Vine Containers:
As I live in an apartment, I have been forced to grow
hops in large tubs (~30x10x8"). I have one rhizome per
tub. The first year the vines were fairly small and
did not produce any flowers. (I was living in DC at
the time and the summer was fairly cool.) This is the
second year and the warm summer in SF has helped
produced great growth. The cones are still immature so
I cannot comment on potential yields. Be sure to mulch
the tubs during summer and to water frequently.

To come: I have conducted a few brewing comparisons
the Digest may be interested in.

Robert Sandefer
Resettled in Novato, CA


		


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Sandefer <robertsandefer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Berliner Weisse and Alt

Berliner Weisse:

A while back, I detailed two different Berliner Weisse
recipes I had brewed (one used "standard" ale
techniques of wort boil and hopping while the other
had no wort boil and was sparged with a hop tea). 

The two have been bottle-aging. At five months of age,
I noted the following differences:

The unboiled beer is more sour/lactic and has
developed nut/sherry/cardboard tastes (it's actually
quite tasty). The boiled beer is fairly bland, less
sour, and no nut/sherry/cardboard.

Both beers are good but not really that similiar.

Alt:

Between Designing Great Beers and the HBD archives,
there seems to be a big question as to the best grist
for Dusseldorf altbier. Unfortunately, I have not
tasted the real thing so all comments are based on my
personal opinion as to which was the better beer.

I brewed two 5-gal batches. Each was bittered with 3oz
Spalt (4.5% alpha acids), fermented with Wyeast
European ale yeast, and bottled with 4oz corn sugar.

The first had a grist of 7.5 lbs German pilsener malt,
2 lbs light German Munich malt, .5 lb German
Caramunich, and 3 oz Carafa II.

The second (based on Al K's posts) had a grist of 9
lbs light German Munich malt, 1 lb Belgian aromatic
malt, and 1 oz Carafa II.

These two beers are decent and not that similiar. The
first's taste was sulfury and roasted with hints of
malt, chocolate, earth, and herb. The second (my
favorite) was malty, nutty, chocolate with hints of
earth and herb.

PS Anyone looking for a decent dunkelweizen grist,
here one is: 50% Munich malt 50% wheat malt (thanks
Jeff Renner!).

Robert Sandefer
Novato, CA


	
		


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 02:40:47 -0500
From: "Andrew Tate" <atatepilot at hotmail.com>
Subject: Grind and efficiency

I'm a new all-grain brewer, and have been having a strangely low effiency.  
I batch sparge and get effiencies around 55-65%.  Reading in the archives 
and in the web, the best thing I can come up with is the crush on my grain, 
which is done at my LHBS.

Here's my procedure:  I divide my boil volume by two, e.g., if I want 6 
gallons I add enough mash water to get 3g of wort after grain absorption, 
drain, then add enough water to bring the temperature to 170 and yield 3 
more gallons.  I drain this into my kettle and go on.

Is the crush of my grist a reasonable culprit?  If I run it through their 
mill twice will this help?  Any other suggestions are appreciated.  Thank 
you!

Andrew



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 07:17:16 -0400
From: "Mueller, Kevin (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com>
Subject: re: CO2 Regulator Problems

Rich, 
Sounds to me like the diaphragm in your regulator blew.  Where are you
located in Michigan?  If its local, we've got a ton of brewers in the
metro-Detroit area that I'm sure would be willing to assist.

Kevin
Canton, MI



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:24:19 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wine Oxidation--Wine Bottle Headspace Pump

Catching up on HBD after a week in central Wisconsin (an aside - in 
Madison I picked up a six-pack of most of the standard lagers and a 
few other brews of the two local breweries, Capital Brewery 
http://www.capital-brewery.com/ and New Glarus Brewing 
http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/.  Capital's were very good, but in 
general, I preferred the New Glarus beers.  They were excellent.)

Anyway, Todd in Idaho, masquerading as "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico 
at hotmail.com> writes:

>While we are on the topic of oxidation, I'd like to solicit opions on the
>best pump to buy to remove air from the headspace when a bottle of wine is
>uncorked.

I know of only one, Vacu-Vin http://www.vacuvin.nl/ (select products 
from the menu on the left).  I've used one for years and have been 
very happy with it.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:12:47 -0400
From: "Jay Spies" <jayspies at citywidehomeloans.com>
Subject: Growing hops in containers

All -

Chris wonders about growing hops in containers....

I live in the city in Baltimore and grew Cascade hops in 40 gallon garbage
cans on my roof deck.  Can't get much bigger of a container than that and
still be mobile with them.....

What I found was that the growth would be slightly stunted b/c of the size
of the root ball.  They grow tremendously fast and within a year, they root
structure took over the entire trash can.  The size of the leaves was also a
bit small (biggest leaf was maybe 6 inches across compared with usual 9 or
so inches for normal, in-ground hops.

It can be done, though.  I'd recommend setting up an automated watering
system. They are voracious drinkers (kinda like HBD readers) and if you miss
waterings, you'll severely handicap their growth season and output.  Also,
fertilize, fertilize, fertilize.  I use a 30/40/30 mix - or you can just
miracle gro them.  Container gardening is hard, and the yields are not high.
I actually stopped growing them after three years of trying.  Too much work
for not enough hops...and I'm lazy.

Good luck!

Jay Spies
Head MAshtun Scraper
Asinine Aleworks
Baltimore, MD



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:03:38 -0500
From: "Steve Fletty" <fletty at umn.edu>
Subject: Upper Mississippi Mash-Out Moving

The Upper Mississippi Mash-Out, one of the Midwest's largeest home brew
competitions, is moving from May to the icy depths of
January.

Please mark you calandars for the weekend of January 27-29th, 2005. Don't
worry football fans, that's the weekend before the Super Bowl.

Surf on over to http://mnbrewers.com/mashout/ to check for updates.

We'll be expanding the number of award categories this year from 19 to 25.
The eis beer category witll also be back.

Judging is slated once again for the Holday Inn Metrodome next to the Town
Hall brew pub. Summit will again host the BOS.

Hey, we're dumb enough to live here through the winter, why not drop by and
have a pint or two with us?

- --
Steve Fletty
2005 UMM Organizer Dude




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:27:56 -0700
From: "Cave, Jim" <Cave at psc.org>
Subject: Cleaning Sankey Keg fermenter

	I broke another demi-john fermenter.  Fortunately, the beer was
at high krausen, and although messy, I managed to recover all but 8
litres and without infection, or oxydation (I was amazed).  I would like
to use a sankey keg from now on as a fermenter. My thoughts are to
remove the valve assembly and then use a bung with blow off tube in the
existing coupling for the valve assembly.  I checked out the archives
for information on cleaning sankey kegs, and got a couple of ideas, but
has anyone out there been doing this, and what is the best approach to
remove the sticky residue on the sides of the keg, when you can't
actually see it?

Jim Cave



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:04:03 -0500
From: Bill Velek <billvelek at alltel.net>
Subject: Brewing with Steam

Personally, I'd like to hear more information about your use of a 
wallpaper steamer, but if you'd rather not post it in Homebrew Digest, 
please feel free to send me any info directly via email: 
billvelek at alltel.net

Coincidentally, I just finished reading an article about steam that can 
be found here: http://tinyurl.com/5odht

By the way, I checked out your website hoping to find some info there 
about steam; you have some absolutely beautiful furniture.

Cheers.

Bill Velek




Return to table of contents

---