---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

                  Beer, Beer, and More Beer
      Visit http://morebeer.com to show your appreciation!

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Throbbing Yeast ("Jack & Viv Wallick")
  When to plant hops / Homebrewers in vic Heidelberg, Germany ("Sasha von_Rottweil")
  BJCP  2004 style guideline spreadsheet. (Bill VanZante)
  RE:How to succeed in microland ("Rogers, Mike")
  Re: Batch vs. Fly Sparging (cboyer)
  Brass and Beer ("Eric R. Theiner")
  re:  Batch vs Fly Sparging (hollen)
  Re: propane burner problem (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Beetles & Yeast/Color (Jeff Renner)
  Attacking SPAM ("Pat Babcock")
  Candi sugar = invert sugar? (Denny Conn)
  Re: Batch vs Fly Sparging (Denny Conn)
  Re: grape vs. corn sugars (Jeff Renner)
  Wheat Beer Club-Only Competition ("Gary Glass")
  How to succeed in microland / business (brewinfool)
  Warning Gary Spykman! ("Alan McKay")
  corn vs grape sugar ("Alan McKay")


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*           The HBD Logo Store is now open!             *
*            http://www.hbd.org/store.html              *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*  Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*   Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:15:19 -0600
From: "Jack & Viv Wallick" <jvwallick at earthlink.net>
Subject: Throbbing Yeast

This may be of interest to brewers and other yeast aficionados out there.

An article in the latest edition of Science Magazine reports that the cell
walls of metabolizing yeast cells expand and contract thousands of times per
second.  Using the cantilever of an atomic force microscope resting on the
cell surface and measuring displacement by reflecting a laser off the
cantilever, researchers at UCLA found displacements averaging 6 nanometers
(3 nm amplitude) occurring at a rate of around one kilohertz (1000/second).
The phenomenon had apparently not previously been observed or reported.

The motion was determined to be characteristic of the contractile proteins
found in flagella and cilia found in numerous microbes.  One postulated
purpose of the movement was as a pump, to assist in the transfer of
nutrients and metabolites into and out of the cell.

The article is in the 20 August 2004 issue of Science, Number 5687, Volume
305, pages 1147 to 1150.

Jack Wallick
Brewsters Yeast
Colorado Springs, CO



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 10:11:23 +0000
From: "Sasha von_Rottweil" <sasharina at hotmail.com>
Subject: When to plant hops / Homebrewers in vic Heidelberg, Germany

Hi,

I have recently obtained some roots of various hop plants a month back. 
After planting them in pots I now have hop vines between 12" to 24". The 
vines are still growing strongly and there are several new shoots coming up 
next to the original vines.  Should I plant the hops now or let them 
hibernate in the pots during the winter and plant them next spring?

Also, are there any homebrewers in the Heidelberg, Germany region?

Thanks,
Marty



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 02:31:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill VanZante <vanzantewm at yahoo.com>
Subject: BJCP  2004 style guideline spreadsheet.

I was looking over the new 2004 BJCP style guidelines
and thought it would be more useful tome to have the
information in Excel. This would allow sorting y
gravities, IBU, yadda, yadda... Any of you BJCP'ers
have the 2004 guideline converted to excel or other
spreadsheet format that you would be willing to share?
Thanks in advance!

Bill VanZante



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:09:15 -0400 
From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com>
Subject: RE:How to succeed in microland

William Menzl asks:
>Here in Michigan, we have experienced quite a few openings and closing 
>of Microbreweries and Brew pubs.  Why....
Spencer Replies:
>In a brewpub, at least 50% of your sales must be from food.
I thought I should note that the correct percentage is 25%, and it should be
noted that it is from any non-alcoholic items...
Below is the full Brew Pub permit description which is available at the
Michigan Licensed Occupations Page
http://www.michigan.gov/careers/0,1607,7-170--60358--,00.html
<http://www.michigan.gov/careers/0,1607,7-170--60358--,00.html> 
Michigan Manufacturer & Wholesalers Section
License & Permit Types
Brewpub - License issued by the Commission to manufacturer up to 5,000
barrels of
beer annually. A Brewpub must also hold an on-premises license (Class C,
Tavern, AHotel,
B-Hotel or Resort) issued by the Commission. A Brewpub must operate a full
service restaurant with at least 25% gross sales from non-alcoholic items.
Brewpubs
may sell beer they manufacturer to consumers only for either on-premises
consumption
or for take-out. Brewpubs may not sell beer they manufacture to wholesalers
or retailers.
A person may have interest in up to three Brewpubs with the total combined
production of
all locations not to exceed 5,000 barrels per year. An investigation by the
Commission's
Enforcement Division is required along with local law enforcement approval
and local
governing body approval. Annual license fee is $100.00.

I personally would start on a smaller scale.  A 3bbl system, for example,
can brew a whole lot of good brew, even for distribution - see Dragonmead.
Some of the Michigan failures have been a result of over extending their
initial investments, thus requiring immediate significant/continuous returns
to keep up with start up payouts.  



Mike Rogers
Cass River Homebrewers
Frankenmuth, Mi.
www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers <www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers> 








Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:05:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: cboyer at ausoleil.org
Subject: Re: Batch vs. Fly Sparging

Eric Lande asks about batch versus fly (continuous) sparging:

> I have read in the past that batch sparging will boost extract
> efficiency because...(I don't remember the exact reason ....)

My experience says the opposite:  you need to add a bit more grains to get
the same number of points if you use batch rather than fly sparging.  John
Palmer has a set of calculations for the increase in grains and the run
rates of a two-sparge batch sparge in his dead-tree edition of "How to
Brew."

The benefits of batch sparging are 1) ease and simplicity -- you do not
have to closely monitor your water:grain level and equilibrate your flow
of sparge water in to wort out.  Secondly (and this is my opinion, YMMV)
pH problems and astringency are all but eliminated using the batch sparge
method.  Given the large water volume, you are not trying to rinse out the
last molecules of sugar from near-spent grains.  Third, batch sparging
shortens the brewing day, and that's always nice too, especially when you
have a wife tapping her toes with a Honey-Do list in her hands.  [Last
time I brewed, my wife did that, and she had a homebrew in the other hand!
;-) ]

There are proponents of no sparge brewing as well, and that requires even
more grains than does batch sparging.  They say that it is the secret of
some prize winning homebrews because it (supposedly) yields a richer malt
flavor.  It requires even less time than a batch sparge, but at the
expense of efficiency and thus cost.  Interestingly, it seems that
old-style brewing several centuries back were no-sparge.  You run across
descriptions of "first runnings" for high gravity beers and the elites,
"second runnings" in the middle of the point ranng and finally "third
runnings" of low(er) gravity brews for the peasants.  From all I can see,
this was no-sparge brewing done batch-style.

Fly sparging is a good thing (tm) too, but it requires more care and
attention.  Most commercial brewers use the continuous sparging method,
because they are naturally concerned with getting the highest scale of
economy possible.  As homebrewers, we are not so concerned with that,
because our batches are small(relatively) and the extra grains needed for
batch or no sparge operations is generally minimal.  That, and you need to
remember that their brewing operations are far more optimized than are
ours, and that they do this on a daily or near-daily basis.  For me, the
difference is less than  $5/US.

In most fly sparging instructions, there is a section that deals with
monitoring pH and ending the sparge when the pH goes up and thus starts
extracting from the husks of the grains.  Batch sparging seemingly
eliminates this, at least for me.

A great explanation of the three with the calculations is in "How to Brew"
but also download the errata because there was an ommission regarding the
batch sparging procedure.

Cheers, and good brewing,
Charles
http://www.homebrewhelp.com

> did).  I've now seen at least two references, over the last week or so on
> the HBD, to fly sparging being more efficient.  At the risk of starting a
> fight between the proponents of both methods, can someone give me a good
> explanation comparing and contrasting the two?  Thanks for the help.




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 9:05:36 -0500
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <rickdude at tds.net>
Subject: Brass and Beer

The question was posed as to whether or not it is 
acceptable for brass to contact beer, being a fluid with a 
pH below 6.0. It appears that this is true.

I don't know if faucets are chromed on the inside, 
though. If they are, they should be fine, but according 
to the US Food Code citing below, brass is not okay for 
beer to contact.

4-101.14 Copper, Use Limitation.* 
(A) Except as specified in (B) of this section, copper 
and copper alloys such as brass may not be used in contact 
with a food that has a pH below 6 such as vinegar, fruit 
juice, or wine or for a fitting or tubing installed 
between a backflow prevention device and a carbonator.

(B) Copper and copper alloys may be used in contact with 
beer brewing ingredients that have a pH below 6 in the 
*prefermentation and fermentation* (emphasis mine) steps 
of a beer brewing operation such as a brewpub or 
microbrewery. 


Rick Theiner



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:02:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: hollen at woodsprite.com
Subject: re:  Batch vs Fly Sparging


I batch sparge and I can verify that batch sparging is less efficient.
But so what.  I really have to laugh at people who tout their efficiency.
So what if they get 80% and I only get 72% extraction.  The point is being
able to hit a gravity you are shooting for exactly, not how much you can
get out of the grain.  Jeez, so what if you have to put in two more pounds
to hit the same gravity.

dion

- --
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen      Toys:  '85 4Runner, '86 4x4 PU


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:34:38 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: propane burner problem

"quinn meneely" <qmeneely at hotmail.com> writes:

>I have a camp chef style propane burner. My problem is that it takes forever
>to fire the thing up. I connect it up to the tank turn the valve and press
>the button. It seems that all that comes out is whats in the tube before the
>regulator, occasionaly it will light but will promply go out. So after
>unhooking the tank, opening/unopening valves, kicking, screaming, pleading,
>it will start. Any ideas on whats going on, cheap ways to fix it?  thanks

I'm guessing that you have air in your line and that causes the flame 
to go out.

Here's my hypothesis:  There is gas in the hose between the 
connection and the burner valve that is left there from when you 
removed the hose from the last time you used it, but then there is 
air behind it that got there when you connected it.  Then there is 
gas behind this.  Perhaps if you just relit it after it went out it 
would be fine, but if you remove the hose from the tank, you are 
getting more air into the hose, and the problem repeats itself.

Those built-in push button lighters can be finicky.  Perhaps a butane 
grill lighter would work better.  That's what I use.  The butane long 
since ran out but the sparker still works, so I just stick it into 
the burner, turn on the gas and click once or twice.

Hope this helps.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:45:11 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Beetles & Yeast/Color

Chip Stewart <Chip at stewartsplace.com> in Hagerstown, Maryland wrote:

>I occurred to me a good way to treat the barrels that seem to have
>powder post beetles would be with CO2.  You could probably make an
>airtight enclosure around the barrel using sheet plastic and duct tape.
>  Then fill it with CO2 and suffocate the bugs.  Should work and without
>any damage to the beer.

Clever idea, but I don't think it would work, at least not in any 
reasonable length of time.  I suspect that the CO2 wouldn't penetrate 
to the tunnels unless it was under pressure.  Todd in Idaho wrote 
that he asked his friend Craig, an Air Force entomologist, who wrote:

>Finishing the cask with shellac or some other product would help 
>prevent any future infestation.  It probably won't suffocate the 
>existing larvae.  There is enough air space is the wood for
>them to survive.

So it sounds like you'd have to displace the air in the wood space with CO2.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:23:48 -0400
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Attacking SPAM

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

In an effort to cut down on the amount of SPAM bouncing off of the HBD server, 
I've created a set of scripts (around wget, sendmail, cron and a makefile, for 
the curious) which downloads and installs the blacklist from spamlist.org as a 
criteria for rejecting mail into the HBD server. 

If you suddenly find yourself unable to receive or submit to the Digest, your 
address or (more likely) domain appears on this list.

If you suddenly stop receiving the HBD (in which case, you're reading this on 
the web or rec.crafts.brewing...), and then get a 550 error in response to any 
email into the HBD.ORG domain, go to the FAQ at http://hbd.org and read 
the "Hey! Why is my mail into the Digest being rejected?!" entry.

- --

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE MI
pbabcock at hbd.org


- --

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE MI
pbabcock at hbd.org


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 08:44:44 -0800
From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
Subject: Candi sugar = invert sugar?

In HBD 4595, Chip Stewart writes "In my Belgian style recipes, I use invert 
sugar, because it is the same as Candi Sugar, which is widely used in 
Belgian brewing."  I have heard this often and searched all over to try to 
find references to to this, without any luck.  I've even checked the 
website for Brewer's Garden, the most often seen brand of Belgian candi 
sugar, and they make no mention of it being inverted.  In brewing many of 
my own Belgian style beers, I have just subbed cane sugar for the candi 
sugar with fine results.  Now, I know those wacky Belgians use a lot of 
different stuff in their beer, and invert sugar could certainly be one of 
the things they use.  But can anyone point me to any data that candi sugar 
is inverted?

Thanks for any help!

	------------------------>Denny Conn
			  Noti OR



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 08:52:18 -0800
From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Batch vs Fly Sparging

Eric, in my experience, efficiency is much more related to grain crush and 
your lauter design than it its to the way you sparge.  I've done about 200 
batch sparged brews (thanks to a great paper by Ken Schwartz), and taught 
the method to dozens of brewers.  Some have seen their efficiency rise (the 
most dramatic was a 12 point increase over fly sparging), some have seen 
their efficiency fall (although usually not by more than a couple 
points).  My own efficiency runs about 83-85% in the kettle and about 
73-75% in the fermenter.  I feel that's well within the same bounds that 
most people see from fly sparging.  For me, the benefits are a faster brew 
session that takes less equipment to do, and not having to worry about the 
SG or pH of my sparge runoff.  If you'd like some info about my technique 
and equipment, see www.hbd.og/cascade/dennybrew.

         ------------------->Denny Conn
                           Noti OR

At 11:55 PM 9/1/04 -0400, Eric R. Lande wrote:

>Hi all - I have a question for the collective.  I have read in the past
>that batch sparging will boost extract efficiency because...(I don't
>remember the exact reason and it would take too long to explain if I
>did).  I've now seen at least two references, over the last week or so on
>the HBD, to fly sparging being more efficient.  At the risk of starting a
>fight between the proponents of both methods, can someone give me a good
>explanation comparing and contrasting the two?  Thanks for the help.




Return to table of contents



Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:03:14 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: grape vs. corn sugars

[Thanks to Charles, whom I cc'd originally, for catching an error on 
my part - I misremembered that 3/4 cup of corn sugar weighs 5 oz./150 
grams]

Charles <cboyer at ausoleil.org> writes

>Corn sugar ... in bottling ... its effect on the beer is
>negligible: an ever so slight increase in the percentage of alcohol

I don't think the increase in alcohol is quite negligible, or "ever 
so slight."  For typical priming rates, it adds ~0.35% alcohol by 
volume.  For a typical Pilsner, this will be about a 7% increase.

Let's say you want to make a 5% abv beer, so you brew it with an OG 
of 1.050 and FG of 1.013.  This gives 5.0% abv (3.9% abv).  So 5% of 
18.9 liters (5 gallons) of beer means that you have 945 ml alcohol.

A typical priming rate (Papazian and others) for five gallons of beer 
is 3/4 cup, or about 107 grams (I just weighed it).  This will 
ferment out to pretty nearly half CO2 and half alcohol, or 53 grams 
of alcohol.  Since alcohol has a specific gravity of 0.79, this means 
that you will have added ~67 ml of alcohol (53 g/0.79).  Add this to 
the original 945 ml of alcohol and you get 1012 ml of alcohol, for a 
new alcohol level of 5.35% abv.

This is ~7% more alcohol than you thought you had.  How significant 
this is, I suppose, is a matter of opinion.  You won't be able to 
taste it, but you will be fooling yourself if you think you are 
drinking a 1.050 OG / 5% beer.  It's +/- equivalent to a 1.054 OG / 
1.013 FG beer that is artificially carbonated.

Of course, it also means that your proudly brewed, all-malt 
Reinsheitgebot beer is really 7% sugar on the basis of fermentables.

===

Regarding corn sugar vs. grape sugar - according to several 
dictionaries, grape sugar is simply dextrose - same as corn sugar. 
Is anyone selling grape sugar?

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:31:25 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <Gary at aob.org>
Subject: Wheat Beer Club-Only Competition

The AHA thanks Steve Cook, Drew Beechum and the Maltose Falcons of Woodland
Hills, CA for hosting the Wheat Beer Club-Only Competition held August 27,
2004. This competition covered Category 17, Wheat Beer, of the BJCP style
guidelines. This was the first of six competitions in the August to May
2004-2005 cycle, with points going toward the Homebrew Club of the Year
trophy. Points are awarded on a twelve-eight-four basis for first, second,
and third place in the club-only competitions. First, second, and third
places in the first and second rounds of the AHA National Homebrew
Competition earn points on a six-four-two basis. 

Of the 43 entries the winners were: 

First Place
John Eustis of Pagosa Springs, CO
Representing the Homebrewing Order of Pagosa Springs with a Bavarian
Hefeweizen

Second Place
Greggory Bergquist of New Bern, NC
Representing the Oriental Regional Brewing Society with a Weizenbock

Third Place
Patrick Payne of Palm Bay, FL
Representing the Space Coast Association for the Advancement of Zymurgy with
a Weizenbock

Congratulations to all of the winners, and thanks to all of the club
representative brewers who entered!

Gary Glass, Project Coordinator
Association of Brewers
888-U-CAN-BREW
(303) 447-0816 x 121
gary at aob.org 
www.beertown.org 

The Great American Beer Festival is coming! Plan to be in Denver Sept 30-Oct
2. See www.beertown.org/events/gabf/index.htm for details.

- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
 



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:54:23 -0500
From: brewinfool at juno.com
Subject: How to succeed in microland / business

Well talk about a lurker jumping out suddenly...

Spencer states: A brewpub (basically a restaurant that brews its own
beer, in Michigan 
law) has to be a good restaurant.

Absolutely! Look at any business plan and its in there. But I know of one
example here in WI that is still here 6 years later and is well known for
its poor highly priced meals ( but great sandwiches) but serves a great
beer selection. Not exactly sure why they are still filling the place
most nights, but everyone I talk to says they have the worst Prime Rib
ever. I had the worst Fettucini Alfredo ever... by FAR. Best Muffaletta
sandwich ever. Nobody has a good comment on the menu food, but the
sandwiches are good. But the people still come... WHY? Theres a shortage
of good restaurants in the area. Its either sub sandwiches, burgers or
here. 

Spencer states: In a brewpub, at least 50% of your sales must be from
food.  If you've got a full bar, maybe 50% of your bar proceeds are from
beer, and some fraction of that 
is your own beer and the rest is guest beers.  So less than 25% of your 
revenue is from your beer.  You will live or die on your food, not your 
beer (and intangibles like service and atmosphere).

In Madison, WI there is a brewpub near the college campus which got in
trouble a few years back because there was some agreement that only half
of the sales could come from beer. This brewpub has walls full of awards
from national competitions, and only a fraction of the beer business of a
brewpub on the other side of the Capitol area downtown, which is further
from the college campus. Lesson: Local agreements to obtain licensing may
change what is allowed to happen to your profit line, not to mention
politics. They eventually came into compliance ( or possibly later
renegotiated?) to stop the problem. But only 1/2 mile away, on the other
side of downtown, the college kids play in the poolhall that is attached
to the brewpub there, and drink away a substantial portion of hard earned
money, turning it into big profits. Unusual point, but its there. 

Like any business, theres a hundred ways to fail, and a fairly narrow
path to success, but never underestimate how much a variety of variables
can come together to create either success or failure. I just started a
business, totally undercapitalized, and was told by those educated in
business that we had a slim chance to make it,  but due to my knowledge
and ability and dedication to make it happen, it has worked out. We have
survived the cash flow stage, and now we buy up inventory of those who
tried, but did not have either the skills or luck to have made their
dream happen. I wish all who try the best, but never underestimate the
power of committment and dedication to make things happen. Above all,
know who your customer is, and find a way to reach them,

But thats enough rambling for now.... Hope I didnt exceed the limit.

Mike Teed
Republican County, WI, USA





Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:11:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: Warning Gary Spykman!


You are treading on dangerous ground giving Daniel any information
on making beer with steam!  You are risking the wrath of his wife
Andrea, whose first rule is : "Don't give him any ideas!"
An engineer with an idea can be a dangerous thing!

:-)

In seriousness, Daniel has crafted some pretty impressive gadgets
and I look forward to what he comes up with in the realm of
steam-fired.  And I have to say I am very lucky to have a wife
who is as understanding of my hobby as Andrea is of his.  But
I still would never risk breaking Rule #1 !!!

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site





Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:18:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: corn vs grape sugar

>From what I've seen and tasted, what we in North America call
"corn sugar" is the same as what in Germany was called "Traubenzucker"
(grape sugar)

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site




Return to table of contents

---