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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: Jeff Renner's Grape v. Corn Sugar / Alcohol Increase Reply (HBD 4596) ("Charles Boyer")
  Fructose is NOT converted to Glucose ("-S")
  keg glueing update ("Alan McKay")
  Stalled Dunkelweizen - Help Please! ("Rowan and Jenny Williams")
  How to succed in microland / bunsiness ("Dan Listermann")
  RE: Jeff Renner's Grape v. Corn Sugar / Alcohol Increase Reply (Jeff Renner)
  Re: When to plant hops / Homebrewers in vic Heidelberg, Germany ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  'Free and Open Source' Brewing Stand Blueprints - comments please (cboyer)
  keg spear removal (Tom Davidson)
  Bone, Heartburn, & Diabetes Pills, No one needs to know... ("Eugene")


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Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 23:07:59 -0400
From: "Charles Boyer" <cboyer at ausoleil.org>
Subject: RE: Jeff Renner's Grape v. Corn Sugar / Alcohol Increase Reply (HBD 4596)

Jeff,

Using Promash, I entered in some numbers using a 5.0 gallon version of the
default Company 1 Red Ale recipe that comes with the product. Reason I chose
this recipe is because it is readily available for users a widely used and
trusted brewing program that's generally agreed to be pretty accurate in
it's brewing calculations.

To the recipe, all I did was lock the batch size and decrease the recipe
from 6.0 to 5.0 gallons.  Promash dutifully decreased the grain amounts
while keeping the points the same.  Since it is a theoretical recipe for the
purposes of the calculations, all of the other considerations were left
as-is.

Anyway:  Promash says if one achieves a nomimal brew that they should see 51
gravity points.  Using Wyeast American Ale/Chico yeast, a typical yeast for
a red ale, Specifically, Promash further reports that:

Default recipe
51 points
4.1% Alcohol by weight
5.24% Alcohol By Volume

In a perfect world.

Now, to test your numbers, I went back to the base recipe used above and
added 3.77 ounces of corn sugar (1 ounce = 28.4 grams, 3.77*28.4=107.1
grams) from the PM ingredient list.  Yes, I know that we are talking about a
bottling operation, but bear with me for the sake of experimentation.

Default Recipe + 107 grams corn sugar
53 points
4.24% ABW
5.42% ABV

So, your point regarding the increase in alcohol is true and well made, but
at the same time, there is a difference in the ProMash calculation of the
increase in comparison to yours, specifically, not that much of an increase
in alcohol percentage -- there, yes, but not at the scale you report.  Is
this a flawed methodology on my part?

Cheers,
Charles Boyer
http://www.homebrewhelp.com




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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:41:48 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Fructose is NOT converted to Glucose

Chas Boyer quotes BYO as ...

>More information about invert sugar, per BYO:
>
>"Invert sugar consists of equal parts glucose and fructose. When fructose
>is transported into the yeast, it's converted to glucose and enters the
>glycolytic pathway ..."

Once again BYO gets the story Bass-Ackwards.

Glucose in fermentation is converted to Glucose-6-phosphate then to
fructose-6-phosphate then fructose 1,6-biphosphate  which is the entry point
to the glycolytic pathway.

Fructose is converted to Fructose-1-phosphate then then fructose
1,6-phosphate where it enters the pathway.

It's closer to the truth to say that glucose is always rearranged into
fructose and certainly not the other way around.

Yeast have a lower affinity to fructose and so unfermented fructose is left
behind at much greater rates in beer.

 -S



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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 07:49:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: keg glueing update

Folks,

An update to my keg glueing.  I ended up using PL Premium construction
adhesive (which IIRC is polyurethane) and so far so good - the bond
seems to be extremely good.   Obviously only time will tell, but
it sure is looking good so far.

I applied the adhesive, fitted the rubber back on top, and then
flipped the keg over since it was full of malt-drink (not beer) so
that the weight of the keg would hold it in place while curing.

cheers,
 -Alan

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site





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Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:21:12 +1000
From: "Rowan and Jenny Williams" <rowjen at webone.com.au>
Subject: Stalled Dunkelweizen - Help Please!

Firstly, let me admit that I have cross-posted this to rec.crafts.brewing so
apologies to anyone who has already read this post...

2 Weeks ago I put a 24 Litre 1.055 SG Part Mash Dunkelweizen into primary
fermentation, using DCL K-97 re-hydrated yeast. All was going well until the
last couple of days (days 12 and 13) when the gravity crept from 1.024 to
currently 1.022. I fear that I may have a stalled wort and the yeast has
given up the ghost. I was hoping to be a lot closer to about 1.014 or
thereabouts.

I skimmed on day 3 or 4 in primary (can't quite remember) and removed a lot
of cold break and krausen - which returned minus the cold break "skin" the
following morning to my relief. That krausen has since fallen back into the
wort and I now have a cake of about half to three quarters of an inch in the
bottom of the fermenter pail.

What should I do - relax and keep an eye on the gravity and rack if it
doesn't change after a couple of days, as I normally do? I have never used
K-97 yeast before - has it run its race? Should I rouse the beer and risk
disturbing the cake that has taken nearly two weeks to form in the primary
fermenter? Put on the heating pad and push the wort temp up from 18C (64.4F)
to 24C (75.2F) and hope it gets a bit more fermentation out of the suspended
yeast?

I've never brewed a Dunkelweizen before and any comments from those who have
brewed this sort of beer or used DCL K-97 before would be gratefully
accepted.  The gravity sample looks, smells and tastes very nice but a few
lower degrees would be better - or is it???

Ingredients were: 1.7Kg Wheat extract, 1kg Pale Malt Extract, 1Kg Munich
Malt, 200g Caramunich, 200g Amber, 100g Pale Choc Malt with a single hop
addition of 1oz of 5% A/A Hallertau for the 60min boil.

Your thoughts?

- --
Cheers,
Rowan Williams
Canberra Brewers Club
Australia

[9588.6, 261.5] Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:00:36 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: How to succed in microland / bunsiness

I am plotting a little different approach to microbrewing.  I own a homebrew
shop and manufacturing facility.  My overhead is fairly well covered.  I am
hoping to brew and bottle condition beer to sell to my shop's customers.  I
feel that the stream of customers we have now would be very interested in
beers we brew and would not mind bottle conditioned beer.  Bottle
conditioning can be done with far less equipment when compared to
counterpressured beer.

If the above works out, I will spring for the extra $4000 to sell it by the
glass and then develop the front room into a brewpub.  Our shop is only two
blocks from Cincinnati's Xavier University.  I don't care to sell any more
food than legally necessary or practical without hiring cooks, etc.

It could work.

Dan Listermann





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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:19:23 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Jeff Renner's Grape v. Corn Sugar / Alcohol Increase Reply

Charles Boyer wrote (above):

>So, your point regarding the increase in alcohol is true and well made, but
>at the same time, there is a difference in the ProMash calculation of the
>increase in comparison to yours, specifically, not that much of an increase
>in alcohol percentage -- there, yes, but not at the scale you report.

Yes - you show half the increase in alcohol as I did.  Nice job of 
using ProMash to investigate this.

>Is this a flawed methodology on my part?

No, I don't see anything wrong, nor can I see anything wrong with my 
numbers.  Of course, ProMash is a black box.

Can anyone else see the reason for this discrepancy?

If not, we can ask Jeff Donovan of ProMash.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 07:33:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: When to plant hops / Homebrewers in vic Heidelberg, Germany

Marty Writes: 

"Should I plant the hops now or let them hibernate in the pots during the
winter and plant them next spring?"

Personally I would throw them in the ground now before your wet, windy and
rainy fall starts. Maybe do a cutting and leave some of the rhizome in the pot
over the winter. My neighbor cuts and plants new rhizomes from the pots on his
porch. He has been doing this for several years with great success. He then
runs a string from the potted bines to his porch roof. It looks great in the
summer. The cuttings that he moves into the earth in his back field are
starting to really take off in the different areas. 

I think that you should talk to the people that run the castle and see if you
can plant hop bines around it. 

Marty also writes: 

"Also, are there any homebrewers in the Heidelberg, Germany region?"

I get to Heidleberg several times a year as I work for SAP. I know that there
are several SAP employees that are in your area that brew. I will see if I can
pass on some names to you. 

I also have to note that you are one lucky S.O.B. living so close to the
KULTURBRAUREI! They make about the best Dunkels that I have ever had anywhere
in Germany. 

C'ya!

 -Scott

=====
"Dad... Parents can't have fun..."
 - Heather Braker

http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page
http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club


		


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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:11:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: cboyer at ausoleil.org
Subject: 'Free and Open Source' Brewing Stand Blueprints - comments please

Hello fellow HBDers --

As part of my efforts at 'give-back' to the home brewing community,which
for the past twenty years has not only given me immeasurable help but also
life-long friendships, I have converted some of the original plans for my
second brewstand into 'blueprint' level files and put them up on my little
web-site for all to use freely as they wish.  I call this a 'free and open
source' plan set, because the idea is to emulate what is going on in the
world of software, where there is a great deal of idea sharing and
collaboration and thus everyone as a whole benefits.  Best of all, no
charge.  I've seen plans for sale from some vendors, and I guess that this
is fine, but on the other hand, it would be nice too if there were some
created at a professional level that were free.  The best decisions are
made from the most information.

This system is a half-barrel keg system that has a "two and one"
alignment, where the mash tun is directly above the hot liquor tank, and
the boil kettle is beside the hot liquor tank. This is a fairly common
configuration.  As for the plans themselves, there are 3-D pictographs, as
well as PDF files that take each part down to the cut sizes, etc. so that
if one was interested in building the device, they could actually print
everything off and take it to a  metal fabricator or if they had the skill
and equipment, build it themselves.

If I may ask, and if you are interested, I would appreciate getting some
feedback on how they might be improved, based upon your experiences or
observations.  If you're game, a link to them is on the web site below my
signature [you can't post these things to the Digest! :-) ]

Cheers to all,
Charles Boyer
http://www.homebrewhelp.com





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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 13:00:30 -0400
From: Tom Davidson <tj.davidson at comcast.net>
Subject: keg spear removal


I am well acquainted with the removal of the spear in most sankey
kegs but I have a couple of freshly donated kegs that are
different and I'm at a loss. The brewery gave them to me because 
they don't know how either.

Keg #1 is a sankey type valve but it screws in rather than just
slide in. I have unscrewed it where it is nice and loose. I can
raise it up about a half inch but it will not come out. I thought
maybe it had a second set of threads down low but I don't seem
able to engage them if they exist. I was pretty sure I've
removed screw in valves before without this problem but apparently
not.

Keg #2 is a Bass\Tennents keg and it has a completely different
valve. It is triangular with rounded corners rather than circular.
There is no retaining ring. Rather than a ball in the center there
is a flat stainless piece surrounded by a 1/8" wide gasket. It
cannot be depressed like the ball in a sankey. Manufactured in
Germany by Thielmann.

Any guidance is appreciated.

TIA,
Tom Davidson
Baltimore, Maryland, USA, Earth



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