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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Homebrew Digest #458 (July 12, 1990) (Doug Roberts)
  Beer, Food & Wine and Penthouse (hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!att!drutx!homer)
  Dallas Brewpubs (Dave Jerzycki)
  Doin' A NEW Thing... (Chris Shenton)
  A Hot Ferment (bob)
  Homebrew Digest #458 (July 12, 1990)
  Kega and Deposits (Craig L. Flowers)
  Mashing techniques -- infusion, step-infusion, or decoction (Chris Shenton)
  Champaign-Urbana (Craig L. Flowers)
  old replies on kegs & oats (Alan Duester)
  mash/lauter tuns (Keith Winter)
  spiced ales for Christmas (Marty Albini)
  Re: Ginger Peeling (Clay Phipps)
  copper boiling kettles (dalley)
  X-Bud kegs -- how are you using them (Chris Shenton)
  Wort chiller design...suggestions? ("Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503  15-Jul-1990 2043")
  Wheat Beer head (Jake Turin)


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Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 11:08:36 MDT
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #458 (July 12, 1990)


> From: ferguson at x102c.ess.harris.com (ferguson ct 71078)
> 
> 
> brown at ocelot.llnl.gov (Dave Brown) writes:
> 
> > What are people's opinions on copper?  I
> > notice all the good breweries use *large* copper boiling kettles, so
> > it can't be bad, right?  
> 
> Does anyone know if this is really true?  I thought they used bronze.

The two breweries I've visited, Heineken in Amsterdam, and one whose
name I've forgotten in Copenhagen both used large copper vessels to
mash and boil their wort.

- --Doug
================================================================
Douglas Roberts                |
Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything
Box 1663, MS F-609             |  except temptation.
Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545   |  ...
(505)667-4569                  |Oscar Wilde
dzzr at lanl.gov                  |
================================================================

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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 11:12:26 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!att!drutx!homer
Subject: Beer, Food & Wine and Penthouse

There are two articles worth knowing about in current magazines.

The August 1990 issue of Penthouse has a one page article on homebrewing.
It contains a outline of the process, a quote from Daniel Bradford, and a
reference to CJoB.  The AHA address & phone are listed and a mention of
free information for beginners.

There have been several calls to the AHA recently asking for the free
information.  When asked "where did you here about us?" the response
has sometimes gone like:
	"Ummm ... ah ...well"
	"Was it Penthouse?"
	"Well .. yes."
The Penthouse does not say anything the intermediate brewer does not know,
but it is good to see the word getting out to prospective new brewers.

The August issue of Food & Wine has an article on matching beer and food.
Beers are divided into six groups, by body.  For each group there are
example beers, and suggestions on what type of food would go with the group.
The article also has six recipes, none of which use beer.  This is an ok
article on a subject that there has been almost nothing written about.


Jim Homer
att!drutx!homer


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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 12:01:20 mdt
From: Dave Jerzycki <daveje at hpgrla.gr.hp.com>
Subject: Dallas Brewpubs

 
  I'll be in Dallas on Aug. 3,4,5.
  Any suggestions on local brewpubs to visit would be appreciated.
  Thanks for the help,
  daveje at hpgrla
  Dave Jerzycki
  Hewlett Packard
  Greeley Storage Division
  Greeley, Colorado

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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 13:57:50 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Doin' A NEW Thing...

Mitch Evans writes:
> The lady at the store suggested that I put the crystal malt (after crushing
> in my coffee grinder for a brief time) in one of my wife's nylon stockings.
> I placed the malt in right before the boil, and it kept well (and FLOATED, I
> might add) throughout the 55 minute boil.

I would recommend against boiling the grains -- you may get astringency
from boiling the husks. What I did was crush the grains, place then in my
pot, add cold water, and then bring to a boil. Then I removed the grains
with a strainer or colander. Worked really well. The use of grains gave my
extract beers much more character than just canned extract.

> If it's so easy this way, why do folks mash & sparge?  

We're masochists. (I'll let more knowledgable people answer this one :-)

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Date: Thu Jul 12 17:27:01 1990
From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: A Hot Ferment

Hello Everybody?

     I'm new to this mailing list, and semi-new to homebrew. I
really like making beer and wish to make a superb brew. For me 
the best way to learn is through doing.  I'm a born tinkerer.

     So I want to make beer, but I have a problem: It's summer 
and it's hot!  The coolest temperature I can get in the day time 
is around 70-80 degrees with an average of about 75 degrees.  
The evenings are the same but about ten degrees lower.

     My question to you all is Not how to keep my fermenting 
wort cool, although I would enjoy entertaining discussions on 
this topic, but rather what affect will this have on my beer?

     Of course the kind of beer I brew might make a difference. 
I was thinking of making a pale ale, with ingredients like:

            4 lb. Alexanders (Pale malt extract)
            2 lb. Klages malt grain (Similar to 2-Row pale malt?)
          1/2 lb. Wheat grain
          1/4 lb. Crystal malt grain
          1/4 lb. Munich malt grain

     Now the yeast up in the air :-}, I'm planning on using
Whitbread ale yeast, because I've never used it and want to give
it a try.

     Does anybody have an opinion as to a yeast which would do well
in a high temperature ferment?

     Now some of you may think trying to ferment at those
temperatures is a futile attempt, but I'm willing to try as long
as the final product isn't to flawed.  Has anybody out there had
experience fermenting in high temperatures?

     Looking forward to your replies.

- -- Bob Gorman
- -- semantic!bob at uunet.uu.net
- -- "I'm just here for the beer!"


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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 15:04:14 EDT
From: tim at sct60a.sunyct.edu (Tim Dennison )


Date: Thu, 12 Jul 90 13:01:59 EDT
>From: ferguson at x102c.ess.harris.com (ferguson ct 71078)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #458 (July 12, 1990)


brown at ocelot.llnl.gov (Dave Brown) writes:

>  > What are people's opinions on copper?  I
>  > notice all the good breweries use *large* copper boiling kettles, so
>  > it can't be bad, right?  

Chuck Ferguson     ferguson at x102c.ess.harris.com responds: 
>  Does anyone know if this is really true?  I thought they used bronze.


The West End Brewery located  in Utica, NY (notable for Matts, Utica Club,
and suprisingly they brew several speciality beers for different folks)
uses 2 LARGE copper boiling kettles. 

Tim Dennison 
Systems Administrator 
SUNY Institute of Technology
Utica, NY
tim at sct60a.sunyct.edu

PS. The West End Brewery has a fun and educational (to the average non-
homebrewer) tour.  Cost 2.00 includes 2 beers or root beers at the end.

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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 15:24:36 CDT
From: flowers at sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Craig L. Flowers)
Subject: Kega and Deposits

Gregg TeHennepe writes:
>When I worked for a wholesaler/distributer in MN (in conjunction with a
>local liquor store), I sold barrels and collected $50 deposits on keg and
>tap ($35 keg, $15 tap).

$15 for a tap!!!!  The last keg I bought (about a year ago) I paid a deposit
of $75 for the tap and $5 for the keg!  I live in Champaign, Illinois, a
college town.  Empty kegs are literally lying around on Fratenity porches and
apartment balconies.  But a tap...oooooh...those are like gold.

I'll take two taps please.  Bill ne for the $30.

 -Craig   (flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu)


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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 16:12:54 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Mashing techniques -- infusion, step-infusion, or decoction

Does everyone out there do infusion? seems easiest, and allows you to use
your lauter tun as a mash tun...

To those who do step-infusion: how are you doing it, on the stove?

Do any of you use decoction?

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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 16:25:40 CDT
From: flowers at sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Craig L. Flowers)
Subject: Champaign-Urbana

Chuck Ferguson maliciously writes:
>For my various heinous sins, myself and another engineer have been
>sentenced to a month in purgatory in Champaign-Urbana, Il (:->).

Well Chuck, as a resident of the fine twin cities of CU, let me say that
we love when people with your attitude come to visit.  Let me give you
some advice.  If you come here with an open mind, you just might really 
enjoy this town.  If you truly consider it purgatory, well, hell is on the 
way.

With that said, let me welcome you to CU and University of Illinois, 
home of the Fighting Illini.  There's plenty to do, plety to see and plenty 
to drink and one month might not be enough time.

As far a brewpubs go, there will be one soon (Chiefs) but I know the 
history of that place and I won't believe it untill it happens.  The other 
incorporated brewpub was  started by myself.  I have not been able to 
raise enough support (interest from those who know and money) so my 
plans are currently on hold.  

There are many fine bars and restaurants of all types such as 
coutry-'ish' (Silver  Bullet, Rose Bowl), yuppie (newly remodled Office, 
Office II), townie (Esquire, Pia's, Hideaway), dives (Tumble Inn) as well 
as campus favorites (Kam's, Murphy's, Illini Inn [also qualifies as a dive],
Deluxe).

For food, the real 'finds' serving special dishes are The Philo Tavern 
(froglegs),  Esquire (charbroiled burgers), Deluxe (fried fish on Fridays), 
Papa Dells (pizza), Wonderdogs (Vienna beef hotdogs), Ye Olde Donuts 
(it's obvious),  Schooner's (fried chicken), L'il Porgies (ribs), Elite Diner 
(old diner), Vriners (old-time ice cream) and The Home Stretch 
(Haystacks for the wee hours breakfast).  Of course there is also an 
assortment of the usual steak, italian, oriental, etc places too.

I'm going to a beer tasting on Saturday with the Whiners (a local wine 
tasting group on the verge of expanding to the 'real' beverage), so there 
is plenty of interest in beer around here.  I invite you to send me Email 
when you arrive and I'll let you know about the current happenings.  If 
any homebrew makes it passed this weekend you're welcome to try it.

Oh yeah, Chicago (home to Sieben's and Goose Island brewpubs , among 
others) is 150 miles away.  

 -Craig (flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu)

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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 17:32:56 EDT
From: capnal at aqua.whoi.edu (Alan Duester)
Subject: old replies on kegs & oats

Hi All: I'm back from Japan and have been slowly catching up on the
digest, so these replies will be a little outdated.

Sapporo black beer in Japan was disappointing, but then so was the can
of Guiness stout that came out of the same vending machine on the
street....

Oats may be available much easier. Check any supermarket or health food
store for Steel-Cut Oats. This may be what you are buying as "British
oatmeal", as they are cracked into 3-4 pieces per kernal, like the
recommended crack for barley brewing, instead of being smashed flat like
Quaker's. I would think regular oatmeal would hopelessly load your wort
with starches. (I tend to like this type of oatmeal for breakfast
better, even though it takes longer to cook (~20 min.)).

Re: Aluminum vs. Stainless kegs. There's an easy way to tell. Sodium
Hydroxide (lye) will etch aluminum like crazy, but I don't think it will
do a thing to stainless. Make a paste of some Red Devil lye, and smear
it on. If a reasonably polished surface turns cloudy immediately, it's
aluminum. Take all safety precautions like glasses, gloves, and plenty
of water to rinse with.

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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 13:18:20 PDT
From: winter%cirrusl at oliveb.ATC.olivetti.com (Keith Winter)
Subject: mash/lauter tuns


florianb writes:

> Nowadays, I use the picnic cooler method, which you quoted, and Pete Soper
> described.  Everyone I've talked to who has gone to this method is very
> pleased with it.  I use a rectangular cooler, 1/2" copper pipe, and the
> slots are cut every 1/2 to 1 ", about 1/3 the way through.  I was lucky to
> find fittings of various sorts which allowed me to secure it through the
> existing plug-valve with a good seal (no modification).  

I have seen this method mentioned several times but I guess I missed
Pete Soper's description.  I'm interested in knowing more about this. 
Does anyone have the description saved that they could send me?

On another note, I've noticed that in the past couple of digests, the
recipes that have been posted call for 'water crystals'.  Now, I'm a
complete novice (I've only brewed five batches, so far.  Can't drink
it any faster :-) so I'm not sure what this is or what it does.  I 
can't find any discussion of it in TCJOHB.  Is it a yeast nutrient?
What is it's purpose?

...not worrying about ANYTHING...

	Keith Winter

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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 16:30:23 PDT
From: Marty Albini <martya at sdd.hp.com>
Subject: spiced ales for Christmas

Thomas C. Palmer <palmer at kimchee.ncsc.org> writes:

> On another note, I'm looking for (extract) receipes for Christmas Holiday
> brews.  Time to lay some down.  Cheers -

	Indeed, these brews can take six months to age and
mellow--get cracking! I've had really good luck with "Fillmore
Christmas Ale '87" from _The_Winner's_Circle_, a collection of
AHA award winners. It has, all together, four ounces of hops
in a five gallon recipe, so it's just about undrinkable for a
few months.

	It also has cinnamon, cloves, orange peel and
(peeled!) ginger root, so it's a really spicy, thick, chewy
ale best served at red-wine temperatures or warmer.

	On a related note: the cinnamon flavor and aroma
didn't come thru well. Admittedly, it's got a lot to compete
with, but it's just about undetectable. Cinnamon's flavor and
aroma seem's quite fragile; overboiling or under-steeping will
result in weak results. Has anybody out there figured out
appropriate boiling or steeping times for cinnamon in spiced
ales? Should I "dry-spice"? Boil longer? Steep, but not boil?
Drop a stick in the drinker's cup? Should I use powdered or
stick? Do commercial extracts work well in beer?

	Do I ask a lot of questions, or what?
- --
________________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"He that will an ale-house keep must have these things in store: a
cham-ber and a fea-ther-bed, a chim-ney and a Hey, no-ney no-ney Hey 
no-ney no-ney, hey no-ney-no! Hey no-ney-no, hey no-ney-no!." 
- --Thomas Ravenscroft
phone    : (619) 592-4177 UUCP     :
{hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya Internet :
martya at sdd.hp.com (or  at nosc.mil,  at ucsd.edu) CSNET    :
martya%hp-sdd at hplabs.csnet US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W.
Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA
well?

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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 15:49:10 -0700
From: hplabs!garth!phipps (Clay Phipps)
Subject: Re: Ginger Peeling

In HOMEBREW Digest #459	for Fri 13 July 1990,
hplabs!garth!phipps (I) wrote:

In my ".signature", I warned readers:

>[...] this message was written and mailed after normal business hours. [...]
                                           ^^^^^
Unfortunately, it was apparently too late for me to post something 
and get it all correct.

>Peeling ginger is indeed a pain [...]
>The trick, as I was taught in a local chinese cooking class,
     ^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>is to use a small knife held parallel to the surface, 
                              ^^^^^^^^
What I was taught in the class was to hold the blade *perpendicular*
(or for the mathematically picky: perpendicular to a tangent).

>and *scrape* the skin off.  

I suppose many readers puzzled out what I intended to say,
but since I did describe it as a "trick",
I decided that it was best to own up to my error, and then fix it.

I introduce the ginger when the wort begins to boil, and leave it in 
for the entire boil: more than 1 hour, but much less than 1_1/2 hours.
I am only able to do partial boils: approx. 2_1/2 gals. in a 4-gal. kettle, 
diluted after boiling to a little over 5 gal.  With 6--8 lbs. extract,
I tend to use 2--3 ounces of peeled smashed ginger root per kettle-full.
It seems that 2 oz. is about the right amount to keep the ginger noticeable,
but difficult for nonbrewing friends to identify.  Its presence becomes 
fairly identifiable with 3 oz., but I don't consider that to be "too much".


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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 16:52:09 PDT
From: dalley at vicom.com
Subject: copper boiling kettles

Most American brewpubs and micros use stainless steel containers.  For
an additional fee, you can have stainless boiling kettles, lauter
tuns, etc., covered with copper so they look really neat when
delivered.  Of course, copper takes much more work to clean than
stainless steel does.  Anchor uses a copper boiling kettle which they
purchased from a German brewery, at least this was true a couple of
years ago.  It needs to be polished constantly to maintain its rich
glow.

Kevin Dalley
dalley at vicom.com  -or- ...{ ames | apple | sun }!vsi1!dalley 

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Date: Thu, 12 Jul 90 11:14:39 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: X-Bud kegs -- how are you using them

On Wed, 11 Jul 90 08:38:57 PDT, Carter Stein <carters at sirius.cax.tek.com> said:

Carter> I also had them weld a 5/8" fitting (bushing?) about an inch from
Carter> the bottom into which I put a 1/2" ball valve.

What kind of metal? Did they weld or use a compression fitting, or...? 

Carter> I connected a short, 2" X 3/8" piece of copper tubing to
Carter> that.  When it's time to run the wort through the chiller, I
Carter> connect a piece a plastic tubing to the copper from the ball
Carter> valve to the chiller and then open the valve and let the hot
Carter> wort flow through the counter-flow wort chiller.

Do you have any problems with leaf-hops clogging your plumbing?


On Wed, 11 Jul 90 09:54:09 PDT, brown at ocelot.llnl.gov (Dave Brown) said:

Dave> How about brazing
Dave> copper to the keg, will that work?  What are people's
Dave> opinions on copper?  I notice all the good breweries use
Dave> *large* copper boiling kettles, so it can't be bad, right?

I believe both copper and stainless are the metals of choice; I've seen
some which have copper tops (which the customers see) and stainless bottoms
(which are hidden behind other equipment). I don't know if there are any
advantages to either, except you don't have to worry about oxidation of the
stainless... 

Dave> I don't like the idea of using gas pipe

No kidding, but I don't know why. Anyone know of any problems with this
stuff?

Dave> To anticipate your next question, how do you fire the thing?
Dave> ... How they did it at Buffalo
Dave> Bills is to create a stand to hold the pot (15.5 gallon) and
Dave> Used an old gas water heater element to fire the pot.  They
Dave> used the gas main from the house, but an important point is
Dave> that they used a gas regulator from a fire-place and some
Dave> other fittings to ensure a professional and safe apparatus.
Dave> ... suggested using the apparatus from a gas grill...

Yeah, that sounds doable. Or could an electric element be bonded to the
bottom of the keg? That, too, would require a stand of some sort. Any ideas
on just immersing an electric element from a hot-water heater?
Carmelization? 

Random questions: does `Buffalo Bill' have any articles/books out on this
kind of stuff? Can anyone (dis-)reccommend the Bill Owens book "How to
Build a Small Brewery at Home"?

Is anyone trying to use these kegs for mashing/sparging vessels?

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Date: Sun, 15 Jul 90 17:58:31 PDT
From: "Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503 15-Jul-1990 2043" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Wort chiller design...suggestions?

I just fashioned my wort chiller, but before I solder it up in final form, I'll
take any hints you are willing to offer.

I used 3/8" soft copper tubing - 40 feet - in a double coil.  I started by
wrapping it down around my 10# CO2 tank, then inverted a plastic birdseed 
pail over the lot, and wrapped it back up the outside of that.  The result 
is a pair of concentric coils that just fit inside my 40 quart Vollrath SS 
brewpot.  Both entry and exit extend over the sides of the pot.  The plan 
is to use the ends to support the coils on the edge of the pot, and then 
put the cover on, sealing all but a 1/2" slot allthe way around while cooling 
(I could drape a cleaning solution soaked cloth over the lot, just in case).  
I will be soldering hose fittings on each end (after suitable fittings are 
added to get from 3/8" to 1/2" to mate the fittings).  The ends bend down the
pot about halfway on the outside to minimize possible splashing or leaking
fittings contaminating the contents of the pot.  I plan to solder stiffeners 
to keep the coils spaced apart, and the individual wraps spaced as well.  
Silver solder everywhere, of course.

Did I miss anything?  Any design changes in order?  Suggestions for stiffeners?
Brazing rod perhaps?

Thanks...Gary

BTW - Buy at a plumbing supply house, NOT at a hardware store, no matter how
large.  The tubing cost me about $11 at the plumbing house, while 50' at the
hardware emporium (the cheapest one I could find) was around $35!!!

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Date: Sun, 15 Jul 90 23:11:51 MDT
From: turin at jupiter.nmt.edu (Jake Turin)
Subject: Wheat Beer head

I've recently made two wheat beer variations (all extract), my first
experiments in that direction.  One a light wiezenbier, the other an
impressive weizenbock.  Both came out fine, and I'm quite pleased with
the results.  My question is, what about the mystical wheat beer head?

According to a Williams catalog, 
"When poured, wheat beers invariably give rise to a billowing, cloud-
like head that lingers through the last taste, clinging to the sides
of the glass and leaving a delicate lace of foam, like rings around a
tree, testifying to the depth of each swallow."  

I admire the prose, but question the accuracy.  My two beers both had
fair to middling head qualities, similar to my all barley malt brews.
Am I missing something, or is the Williams quote a load of hooey?

The stuff tastes so good it won't be around too long one way or the
other.  

Thanks,

Jake Turin				New Mexico Tech
turin at jupiter.nmt.edu			Socorro, NM


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #460, 07/16/90
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