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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  The Bleeden Obvious ("Graham L Sanders")
  Baltic Porter (HOMEBRE973)
  Bottles and Labels (Calvin Perilloux)
  Re: Bottles and Labels (Kent Fletcher)
  Pump Orientation (Jim Stansell)
  Re: DON'T USE UREA! (Kevin Wagner)
  Re: Bottles and Labels (Joe Walts)
  RE: Excluding 19c (Andy) NSSC" <AndersonRW@NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL>
  RE: DON'T USE UREA! ("Ronald La Borde")
  Recycle bottles and labels - tip and question! (Derek Sheehan)


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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:29:54 +1000
From: "Graham L Sanders" <craftbrewer at bigpond.com>
Subject: The Bleeden Obvious

G'day All

Life always amazes me. Especially so when the bleeden obvious hits you smack
in the gob, and you realise what an idiot you have been. So it is that here
in the tropics, the build-up has begun. None of this subtle changes in the
seasons. Oh no, up here we go from a comfortable dry of 28C to instant low
to mid 30C temps and humidity shoots to above 80%. And this stays with us
now for 3 months and longer til "The Wet" breaks.

Yes its the season we call "goin tropo", or "mango madness". Both rightly
named for thats whats exactly happens if you dont slow down, relax and have
more than a few beers. Blowins from out side the region really show thru,
totally burnt out within an hour in this mindblowing energy sapping heat.

Now I mention having a few for good reason, as in Northern Australia in
these time, alcohol consumption blows right thru the roof. In fact its the
highest in the world by a long way. Over 200 litres a year for every man
woman and child, but far more drunk in these times.

I know for one fact my own brewery goes into overtime with the alcohol I
consume. Its really mind blowing.  Hard to believe I go thru so much beer.
Went thru 9 litres recently in one humid patch in 3 days. So what one might
say, been there done that, especially in ones younger days. But when you
consider this was done without even knowing it, and not feeling drunk, if
you like "just natural rehydration" instead of deliberately setting out to
drink beer, well thats scary.

Now I always thought the high alcohol consumption up this way was due to us
basically just sweating it out as quick as we put it in. Til a study at our
local University looked into it. Turns out one of the major reason people
lose it in the tropics is they cant sleep at night due to the high humidity.
They just stay awake sweating. Lack of good sleep leads to being irritable,
and that to loss of temper and so on. Hence "going Tropo". But the locals
have learnt a sure fire way to get a good nights sleep.

Yes thats right, Getting pissed every night, or at least nice a tipsy,
ensures you go to sleepy bow-bows with no problems. Yes the University
thought we were social misfits with our high drinking and went to prove it.
Instead they found it was in response to lack of sleep, and that the locals
have evolved so to speak, a big alcohol consumption for the main purpose of
avoiding "mango Madness", by getting a good nights sleep. Bloody obvious
when you think about it. Only thing is, how do you promote "getting tipsy is
good for your health".

Now you can blame that Mr Yates for my return >>>>>>From: "Phil Yates"
 ..When ever good practical folk take a spell from the HBD, it seems to me
that the lunatics take over the asylum.<<<<< I hear you mate!!!!!!!, So yes
I am posting, bringing some resemblance of sanity to the place. Mind you
what version of sanity is hard to tell. Seems clear at least from this
persons brain-box.

From: " Robert Zukosky" >>>>><I recently wacked a wyeast pack Bohemian 2124
dated 24 jan 2001. Six days
later it has swelled. My questions are:1. What condition can I expect of the
yeast.2. Can I expect mutations.<<<< In my radio interview to David Logsdon,
man in charge of Wyeast i put this question to him. (note one can hear this
on that website if you like). Anyway his answer simply is 1. If the yeast
pack swells, you can be sure the yeast is ok, and can be used. 2. The
chances of the pack dominated by mutated cells while not non-existant, is so
unlikely it doesn't register. In otherwords its safe to use.

Bloody hell, I cant let Phil off the hook that easy. What other gems did he
say. >>>>>>By some stroke of fate, I've been brewing bloody good beer
without understanding any of the basics at all.<<<<<< Its good to see you
finally acknowledged the help you got from the Guru of the North, my friend.
All those lessons haven't been in vain. Its one of those arts, to teach
people the necessary knowledge and skill and they dont know they have been
taught.

So Phil dont be down >>>>>>>>>I really must do something about my ignorance.
You just can't carry on enjoying your beer all your life!<<<<<< You dont
need to fret, I'm here, helping you all the way, in my own unique style.
Ignorance really can be bliss, with a few beers down the gullet.


From: "Dave Burley" >>>If it is any help, the Scandinavians used this basic
method of storing yeast at room temperature under distilled water in days
when mechanical cooling was not available and S. carlsbergensis kept for
about 30 years this way was still found to be viable.<<<<<<< Now I have been
routinely storing yeast under sterile water for ages, gee has to be 10 years
or more. I can testify its a great method. I reculture all my 20 plus
strains in my yeast station every three years or so, one time left some for
5 years with no problems. The lager strains are the least viable, but still
plenty for the next generation. Surprisingly Brett yeast are the most
stable.

I have to take issue with a response on the fortnight of yeast on
zinc.>>>>>.Lou,
Most of the commercially available nutrients contain some zinc mainly in
mineral form as ZnSO4 or ZnCl2. Adding mineral zinc directly, which is
probably the cheapest way of adding zinc, is difficult for home brewers
because of the small amounts. Addition of 0.2-0.3 ppm zinc (0.4-0.6 mg/L
ZnCl2 or 0.5-0.7 mg/L ZnSO4) is not easy to measure without a proper
scale.>>>>> I'm sorry but this is totally inaccurate. By using simple
dilution techniques, you can get easily to these figure. And use ordinary
decent kitchen scales. From my article on zinc.

ZnCl2 Make a solution of 4.17g ZnCl2 (dry) per litre of de-ionised or
distilled water. This solution contains 2mg of zinc per mL. So for 20L wort
you add 4ml to get 0.4 ppm Zn in the wort

ZnSO4.7H20 Make a solution of 35 grams of ZnSO4 per litre of deionised or
distilled water. This solution contains 8 mg of zinc per mL. So for 20L wort
you add 1ml to get 0.4 ppm Zn in the wort.

Shout

Graham Sanders


Oh

That saltie that had a go at that young man. Wildlife officers are still
trying to work out why this lizard bothered to slid up a bank, and over 100
meters for a feed. Well the latest theory is one from the back blocks. Seems
our croc may have had a tooth ache. Yes you got it, one sore tooth, and
crocs start looking in tents for easy take-aways.

who says they aint like us.



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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:35:42 -0400
From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com
Subject: Baltic Porter

Two questions:  Does anyone have great recipe for Baltic
porter? COuld one use Czech Pilsener Yeast for a Baltic
Porter?
Thanks
Andy from Hillsborough, NC


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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Bottles and Labels

Rudi Wehmschulte notes in the previous HBD that some of 
the German bottles make for easy label removal (Bitburger,
Warsteiner, and Bavarian Weissbiers, etc.) and need "only"
a few hours of soaking. 

Well, perhaps so, but in some markets, there is aluminium 
foil on the neck that can be pure misery to remove.  I also
find that a few hours is longer than you need for a lot of
other, local brews, which are much easier to deal with.

Frederick Brewing Company (e.g. Wild Goose et al) has 
excellent bottles for this.  I use a dilute ammonia and
water mix (1 cup ammonia in a bucket of hot water), and 
those labels come off in *minutes*.  Real handy.  I think
Saranac was passable.  Brands that don't work as well:  
Dogfish Head, and Brooklyn.  And Sam Adams stickers are on 
so tight that if I encounter any of those bottles, 
they go straight to the recycle bin.

As for why the Euro bottles have easy-to-remove labels,
part of it could be the forced recycling regimen over
there, but perhaps also maybe that they don't expect their
beers to be kept in an ice-water mix all afternoon
like Americans do with their megabrews, so they 
don't need to use superglue.

And for sticking new labels on bottles (or kegs),
just use a glue stick.  Comes off easily in water
when you're done, but not "too easily", like milk-glue.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA



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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:08:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bottles and Labels

> Try to get some bottles of German beer such as
> Warsteiner, Bitburger or some of the Bavarian 
> wheat beers. 

European bottles use a different size crown cap, the
mouth of the bottle is slightly larger than domestic
bottles.  You can usually still get a crown cap on it,
but you may not get a great seal, depending on the
capper you're using.



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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:48:25 -0400
From: Jim Stansell <jim.stansell at comcast.net>
Subject: Pump Orientation

I checked with Bob Estabrook, who is the regional sales manager for March 
Pumps in my area.

I asked him specifically if the pump could be mounted both horizontally and 
vertically, and if one position was preferred over the other. His reply was 
that the pump orientation didn't matter, but if mounted vertically be sure 
to keep the pump housing up and the motor down.




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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:37:36 -0700
From: Kevin Wagner <Kevin.Wagner at watchmark.com>
Subject: Re: DON'T USE UREA!


At first I thought this was a troll - but google discovered some 
interesting stuff.

Urea is a powerful protein denaturant [1].

Excessive protein in [finished] beer causes haze [2] and poor head 
retention [3].

Urea [in beer] can lead to the production of ethyl carbamate, a known 
carcinogen [4].

Who uses urea to finish beer? Beeradvocate, at least makes the 
suggestion, that some of the big guys do [5].

The only finishing agent I've ever used in my beer is irish moss, but 
have considered using some of the miracle powders on the shelves of my 
LHBS. Do any of those contain this compound?

 -Kevin

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea
[2] http://foodsci.unl.edu/OnlineEdu/webclass/chapter7.htm
[3] http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-4.html
[4] http://www.bioteach.ubc.ca/Bioengineering/beerandwine/
[5] http://www.beeradvocate.com/news/stories_read/496/


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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:50:42 -0400
From: Joe Walts <jwalts at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bottles and Labels

The labels on the couple of Avery bottles (from Colorado) I've come
across have been extremely easy to remove with a quick rinse of water.

Joe


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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:36:18 -0400
From: "Anderson Robert W (Andy) NSSC" <AndersonRW at NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: RE: Excluding 19c

Phil,
  It's not "geopolitical correctness", but it is consistency. If you look
back at the records from January 2001 when we last hosted a Spirit of
Belgium (SoB III), you will see that BURP excluded Biere de Garde at that
time as well. And those were the days when the only negative comments made
concerning the French dealt with personal hygiene issues or their unusual
love of Jerry Lewis.

    The selection of which styles we are using for the homebrew competition
of the Spirit of Belgium is an issue that we have thought about for quite
awhile. For example, we are excluding a Belgian-brewed  style of beer which
constitutes over 50% of their consumption (pils), and we are also excluding
a style which is made outside of Belgium but almost entirely for the Belgian
market which for want of a better phrase I'll call "Belgian Scotch Ale"
(Gordon Scotch Ale, Douglas Scotch Ale, etc.)

    Actually, I'm glad you wrote, as this gives me an opportunity to update
what Tom Cannon had previously sent to JudgeNet and HBD. He had listed the
old BJCP styles & numbering scheme, and we had actually decided to use the
new BJCP style guidelines. What this means is that another style is added to
our contest: Belgian Blonde Ale (and before anybody protests about that, I
just got back from a vacation to Belgium & was quite surprised in the
increased numbers of Belgian Blond Ales found over there just in the 3 years
since my last visit.) 

    I also will be updating the web page to omit the Category numbers, as
those will inevitably cause confusion. So, anybody entering a beer will just
enter the style name as opposed to a number. In addition, anybody entering a
"Belgian Special" will be required to explain why it should be in that
category (e.g. it's an Orval Clone, or, it uses mustard as a special
ingredient, etc.)

   So, with that being said, here are the styles of beers we will be
accepting as entries in SoB IV:


Witbier 
Belgian Pale Ale 
Saison 
Flanders Red Ale 
Flanders Brown Ale/Oud Bruin 
Straight (Unblended) Lambic 
Gueuze 
Fruit Lambic
Belgian Blond Ale 
Dubbel 
Tripel 
Golden Strong Ale 
Dark Strong Ale
Belgian Specialty Ale


Prost,

Andy Anderson
SoB IV Homebrew Competition Organizer




- -----Original Message-----
From: Philip J Wilcox
To: andy at burp.org
Cc: post at hbd.org
Sent: 10/29/04 9:24 AM
Subject: Excluding 19c


Andy, 

What kind of geopolitical correctness crap is this? Biere de Garde is a
"French" style? The French wouldn't have any beer styles if it weren't
for the Flemish influence of the area. So your going to exclude Biere de
Garde because some French king, married off a kid to someone from
Brussels 300 years ago and granted them political autonomy? What kind of
crap is that? Its a Belgian styled beer, now residing in France. 

Why exclude it? Has BURP been penetrated by right wing radicals from the
Bush Administration? Haven't we excluded the French for long enough? Why
can't we all just get along? ;<)

Phil Wilcox
Graphic Designer
Corporate Communications - Consumers Energy


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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:58:09 -0500
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: DON'T USE UREA!

>From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
>
>   DON'T USE UREA!

How right you are!
Hmm, I was reading the label on a gallon bottle of vinegar, some tips.
One suggested adding a cup of vinegar to your washing machine rinse
water to remove urea from clothes.

Huh? Urea from clothes, well, maybe so.

So ,checking the Urea Cycle on Google pulls up this:

"Uric acid is the chief nitrogenous waste of

    * insects
    * lizards and snakes
    * birds "

Yuck,
On second thought  - double yuck!

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde




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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:10:59 -0400
From: Derek Sheehan <w7rex at comcast.net>
Subject: Recycle bottles and labels - tip and question!

I found a great site that sells dry-gummed paper to people to make their
own art-stamps. Apparently it is a popular art form! Anyway, I ordered
some paper designed to go through color laser printers and tried it out
for beer labels. Awesome result. I purchased the 60# KromeKote paper.
Check out the link:

https://wcp-nm-ssl.qwknetllc.com/osc/catalog/
product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=113

I tested a label that has been on for a month and it readily came off
with a short water soak.

Now for my question: Who/how can I purchase a volume amount of bottles?
I am interested in finding a bulk supply to share with some of my
homebrewing friends. Who sells bottles in bulk amounts? What is a bulk
amount (50 cases? 100 cases? a pallet?)??

I have searched all over the net and can't seem to find any bottle
wholesalers.


Derek in Dexter, MI



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