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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Cornelius kegs and parties (florianb)
  Cooling lager yeasts (Kenneth R. van Wyk)
  Re:  Malt Bricks (techentin)
  starter hops, IPA (RUSSG)
  re: Munich Malt (VANAGS)
  various items (Tom Nolan)
  Ken's sparging problems (florianb)
  Juniper Ale? (John S. Watson - FSC)
  wort chiller questions answered (florianb)
  Federal Excise Tax Increase (Dave Suurballe)
  Cleaning wort coolers... ("Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503  24-Jul-1990 1736")
  Recipes for extract based wheat beer (CORONELLRJDS)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #466 (July 24, 1990) (Ed Falk)
  (none) (FRISRM)
  novice brewer questions answered (florianb)
  off tastes from honey (mage!lou)


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Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: 23 Jul 90 12:40:23 PDT (Mon)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: Cornelius kegs and parties

Mark Leone writes to ask:

>Just out of curiosity, is it possible to attach a normal, hand-pumped
>beer tap to a Cornelius keg?  I.e., if you're bringing a keg to a
>party, do you have to lug along your CO_2 cylinder, etc.?

It should be possible to do anything, given enough time and resources.
The parts you would require to do this would be probably 50% available
and 50% custom.  Looks like a good hobby to distract you from life/family/
beer/etc.  Here's why:

1	There would be a lot of fabrication involved.
2	You will need CO2 anyway, unless you are going to drink all the
	brew at the party.      
3	Hand pumps probably wouldn't provide the uniform pressure needed
	to give a nice, smooth flow (required for head control)
4	Transportation of home beer in kegs leads to a churning up of the
	yeast layer on the keg bottom.  You will arrive at the party with
	a keg of muddy beer, ruining your chances of impressing that 
	special crowd with your incredible ability to make your own beer.
	(Unless you filter it first.)  

I still can't bring myself to share 5 gallons of hard-brewed beer with
a rowdy crowd of schludwiller-guzzling normals.  I find that inviting them
over to my territory is much more rewarding.  And finally, I've found 
that home brew is never as good after transportation beyond the place where
it was brewed.  I mean it just likes to stay home.

Florian


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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 07:23:58 EDT
From: Kenneth R. van Wyk <krvw at cert.sei.cmu.edu>
Subject: Cooling lager yeasts


Although I've made quite a few batches of ales, I'm still very new to
lagering (I did buy and read Noonan's book...), and I have a question
for all you lagerers (?) out there.

Noonan suggests (demands?!)  pitching the yeast at very low
temperatures (~45F, I believe) and that the starter culture be at high
krausen at pitching time.  Also, Wyeast says that its liquid yeast
cultures should be incubated at 70-80F.  Finally, Noonan says that
under no circumstances should the yeast be cooled more than 5F per day
and that the starter culture should be no more than 5F more than the
wort at pitching time.

So, how do you all start your yeast for lagering?  Get it going at 70F
and then slowly cool to 45F for pitching?  By Noonan's standards, that
would take 5 days just to cool the little beasties.

I pitched my yeast at cold (for summer) room temp, about 68-70F, and
then cooled the wort to 48F in my fridge, but I'm afraid that I
shocked the yeast into hibernation.  I'm concerned - but not worried
yet.  After all, every bottle that I own is currently full with some
fine (IMHO) ale...

Suggestions greatly appreciated,

Ken (a concerned parent) van Wyk

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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 07:36:22 CDT
From: techentin at Mayo.edu
Subject: Re:  Malt Bricks

zentner at cn.ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner) writes about problems with 
dried malt extract hardening into bricks.

I have had similar problems, but with dextrose as well as the malt.  
Mine never made it into bricks.  It typically became bag shaped with 
bits of paper stuck to it.  Not a pretty sight.

Now I pack all paper bags of dextrose and any half used bags of dried 
malt extract into a gallon ziploc with about a tablespoon of uncooked 
rice.  Uncle Ben's makes a pretty good desiccant.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Techentin                              Internet: techentin at Mayo.edu
Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN, 55905 USA             (507) 284-2702
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date:     Tue, 24 Jul 90 09:18 EST
From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (RUSSG)
Subject:  starter hops, IPA

Someone asked about adding hops to a yeast starter solution. I think that is
done to keep the risk of infection to a minimum; the hops provide an anti-
bacterial and preservative effect.

Has anyone tried a Ballantine IPA?  I had a few of them recently and liked it
very much. Falstaff Brewing Co.!  Why can't more small breweries make a good
beer, rather than try to compete with Swiller et.al?

RussG.

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Date:    Tue, 24 Jul 1990 8:35:48 CDT
From: VANAGS at ADCALC.FNAL.GOV
Subject: re: Munich Malt

In Homebrew Digest #462, Gerald Andrew Winters asks

>  Does anybody know a source of dark Munich malt (20 L)?  I have about 5 or 
>so homebrew catalogs and all list the light Munich malt (10 L).  If anybody 
>knows a source I'd sure you'd pass it along.  Thanks.   Jerry

We're fortunate to have many good homebrew supply shops in the Chicago area, 
but the best (IMHO) is the HEADHUNTERS c/o The Lil' Olde Winemaking Shoppe.  
They have almost everything you'd want.  They even have an Amber Munich 
malt by Ireks - nothing darker though.  You can contact the owner Greg 
Lawrence at (708)554-2523 or write for a catalog at RT1 BOX 64W, Sugar Grove, 
Illinois 60554.  If you're ever in the Chicago area, the Headhunters Homebrew 
club has monthly beer tastings. 

						Cheers,
						Laura Vanags
						vanags at adcalc.fnal.gov

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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 10:37:06 EDT
From: nolan at lheavx.DNET.NASA.GOV (Tom Nolan)
Subject: various items

To Captain Kirk, who wants to know about left-handed potato peelers:
Most peelers I have seen are double-edged, so they go both ways! I know a
guy who says his mom (left-handed) always exchanged peelers with her
neighbor (right-handed) after six months. Then they'd buy two new ones
and repeat the process. 

To russg, who wants to know about Italian beers:
When I'm in a Chinese restaurant, I always order Tsing Tao. I don't
know what theory I'm operating under. Its kind of ridiculous, because
the "real" Chinese always drink Budweiser. Anyway I always order
Italian beer at Italian restaurants, too. There are three that I see
with regularity, and Moretti is the best of the lot. It's a malty
lager with a creamy feel. I can't seem to conjure up the names of
the other two. Probably I'll think of them right after I post this.

To Gary F. Mason, who wants to know about hops in starters:
Its the preservative effect. Many bugs don't like hops, but yeasts
don't seem to mind it.

Finally a request: I'm sorry if this causes a repetition (I may have
lost a digest or two), but I'd like to see Pete Soper's plans for
the mash-tun based around a picnic cooler. Thanks.

Tom


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Date: 24 Jul 90 12:58:56 PDT (Tue)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: Ken's sparging problems

Ken Johnson says,

>Also, I was wondering how I can be more efficient with my sparging.  For a
>five gal. batch with 10 lb of grain (8 pale and 2 crystal or munich) I was
>getting an IG of around 1046.  It seems that this should be higher. I'm
>
>that of the grain.  I use about five gallons of sparge water.  Yesterday,
>I brewed a batch with 10 lb of pale malt using the same technique and got
>an IG of 1055.  What up?

Lawzee!  Something's broken.  Do you use a grain bag?  If so, throw it 
away.  Are you following the usual rules such as recirculation, pH adjustment,
and so on as recommended in the good books?  Could you describe your lauter
tun in more detail?  Is it a Zapap system or a single 5-gal bucket with
a vegetable steamer?  Are you testing for complete starch conversion using
iodine?  Anyone else want to touch this one?

The 10# of pale 2-row should provide approximately (10/5)*33=66 sg points.

Perhaps you should continue to sparge until the sg drops to 1.002-1.003,
then boil down farther to concentrate the solution.

Hope this helps,  Florian


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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 13:12:27 PDT
From: John S. Watson - FSC <watson at pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Juniper Ale?

 
Hi Folks,

I've recently came across  a reference that mentioned Juniper 
might once have been an ingredient in ale:

From "Cape Cod" by Henry David Thoreau,  Oct. 1849, page 117:

"I picked up a bottle half buried in the wet sand,
covered with barnacles, but stoppled tight, and half full of red ale,
which still smacked of juniper, --all that remained I fancied
from the wreck of a rowdy world, -- that great salt sea on the 
one hand, and this little sea of ale on the other, preserving
their separate characters.  What if it could tell us its adventures 
over countless oceans waves!  Man would not be man through such ordeals as it
had passed.  But as I poured it slowly out onto the sand, it seemed
to me that man himself was like a half-emptied bottle of pale ale, 
which Time had drunk so far, yet stoppled tight for a while, and drifting
about in the ocean of circumstances, but destined erelong to mingle
with the surrounding waves, or be spilled amid the sands of distant shore."

(Could it be he's confusing ale and some other drink of yore (gin)?,
or maybe he's confusing juniper and spruce? )

Did the juniper taste come from berries or its storage in juniper barrels?
Assume the above juniper taste came from the berries,
has anyone ever made an Ale using them?  I would think it might
make a sort of gin tasting beer.  How much do you think you'd use?

Thanks,
John S. Watson, Civil Servant from Hell    ARPA: watson at ames.arc.nasa.gov 
                                           UUCP: ...!ames!watson

Homebrew Naked!

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Date: 24 Jul 90 12:43:55 PDT (Tue)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: wort chiller questions answered

In yesterday's HBD, Todd Koumrian asks:

>I've just assembled a wort chiller.  There is some residual crud on
>the copper tubing that was there when I got it.  Assuming it doesn't
>come off with soap and water (which I haven't done yet), how should
>I clean it off?

Use nail polish remover, a scouring pad, some neutral solvent, or all.

>I've seen the previous wort-chiller cleaning discussion and am likewise
>not interested in finding out what TSP or bleach will do to copper.  I
>feel that dumping the thing in a boiling pot of wort ought to sanitize
>it, so I'll stick to soap and water until I hear of something better.

I'll tell us anyway.  TSP won't do anything to copper.  In my experience,
bleach doesn't either.  I wash my chiller all the time in tri-chlor,
which is a combination of TSP and chlorine bleach.  Yes, dipping it into
boiling wort will sanitize it.  But you shouldn't use soap on it.  Soap
films are "bad" for beer (thanks, Mr. President).

Florian


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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 13:43:22 PDT
From: hsfmsh.UUCP!suurb at cgl.ucsf.EDU (Dave Suurballe)
Subject: Federal Excise Tax Increase

I picked this up at the Oregon Brewer's Festival last week.  It's on the
stationery of James C. Sanders, president of the Beer Institute, whatever
that is, at 1225 Eye Street, N.W.  Washington, D.C. 20005, (202) 737-BEER
FAX (202) 737-7004.

start of transcription ----------------------

TO:     Brewers & Beer Importers Doing Business in the U.S.
	Beer Institute Associate Members
	Wholesale Beer Association Executive Secretaries

FROM:	James C. Sanders

RE:	Federal Excise Tax Increase - Assistance During
	Fourth of July Recess


	With President Bush's announcement that increased taxes
will be a part of deficit reduction efforts, additional pressure
will be imposed upon members of the "budget summit" and the U.S.
Congress to include federal excise tax increases on beer as part
of the budget package.

	It is important that you immediately contact your members
of Congress, while they are at home during the Fourth of July 
Congressional Recess between June 29th and July 9th, to voice
your opposition to any increase in Federal excise taxes on beer.
In addition, special emphasis should be given to members of the
budget summit (copy attached), Senate Finance and House Ways and
Means Committees.

	As noted in the attached talking points, increased excise
taxes on beer are regressive.  Excise taxes on beer cost Americans
with annual earning of between $10,000 and $20,000 three times
more in percentage of income than those earning over $50,000.
Increased excise taxes will result in loss of sales and loss of
employment, including those who supply the beer industry (i.e.,
agriculture and packaging).  

	We would appreciate any feedback you may get from members
of Congress and we hope that you will call if you need additional
information or assistance.

Enclosures

cc:  Brewers Association of America
     Association of Brewers
     Trade Press



end of transcription ----------------------


I do not have the enclosures mentioned, and I did not transcribe two lines
of text which were apparently added (by a slightly different typewriter) to
the original letter.  The first is at the end of the second-to-last
paragraph: "Would raise the cost of a six pak 1.00$", and the second is
centered at the bottom of the page: "Call 1 800 33- TAXES and voice
your disaproval".  From the incompetant spelling and the format of the
price increase and phone number I guess the writer is a recent immigrant.


Anybody know what this Beer Institute outfit is?  Is it the brewing
industry's lobbyist?

Suurb

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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 14:48:22 PDT
From: "Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503 24-Jul-1990 1736" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Cleaning wort coolers...

I had the same question - what to use to clean it.  I steel-wooled all obvious
coatings, glue, etc. from my materials prior to assembly, but now have flux all
over.  I'd prefer an immersion cleaning, because of the possibility of missing 
something by hand.

Does anyone know what's in Dip-It?  It works great on my steel thermos.  Maybe
I'll try a furniture stripper (commercial - large tank).  Or a furnace - anyone
know the melting point of solder?  8')

As for the question on kegging purchase - I finally stopped splitting hairs 
and went with the Frozen Wort.  Prices were very competitive; they are 
reasonably close to me (I'm in NH, they're in MA, so no taxes); and Charlie
was very cooperative and helpful, always a plus. [As an aside, I haven't found 
a single person associated with this avocation that hasn't been cooperative 
and helpful.  What a nice group to be a part of.]  I also got my pot from him. 
I couldn't find a better deal or a better pot (highly rated by my chef type
friends - Vollrath), even from Rapids.

Gary

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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 16:02 MST
From: CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU
Subject: Recipes for extract based wheat beer

Greetings:

	I know this has been discussed in past issues, but I'm curious to 
get fresh input.  My brew partner and I are planning to brew a wheat beer 
soon, so I'm looking for extract-based recipes.  I notice that Charlie has 
completely ommitted from CJoHB (extract based) wheat-beer recipes.  I 
suspect that the lack of malted-wheat extracts at the time of publishing is 
probably the reason for this.  I'm thinking of a Bavarian-style wheat beer.  
Any suggestions or comments?

		Thanks for your help,
		Chuck Coronella

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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 15:23:31 PDT
From: falk at Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #466 (July 24, 1990)

Hi; could you shut off my feed for a while, I'm going on vacation.

ADVthanxANCE,
	-ed falk, falk at sun.com

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Date:         Tue, 24 Jul 90 17:42:32 EDT
From: FRISRM%morekypr at pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
Subject:      (none)

I just purchased some used equipment (air traps and a racking tube) and they
look kind of grungy. Can anyone suggest a good way of cleaning them. I was
thinking of just soaking them in a bleach solution, but I remembered someone
saying that bleach might be damaging to some equipment. These are plastic
parts with rubber stoppers.

thanks,
Rick
FRISRM at MOREKYPR

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Date: 24 Jul 90 17:04:23 PDT (Tue)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: novice brewer questions answered

Michael Rosen asks some basic questions:

>I am new to the idea of homebrew, and everything attached to
>it, but it is a subject that intrigues me a lot.  I was wondering
>if there were any standard texts,  or advice that all of you
>vets out there can give me.

Hands down, Papazain's book "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" is the
best beginner's book.  If it had an index, it would be better, but the
index is available from electronic archives.  Query for more details.

>Also, I was curious about the economic realaties of homebrewing.
>Is it the type of thing where beer/mead/whatnot is produced cheaper
>commercially?  I acknowledge that making it is half the fun, but
>was curious if it was also cheaper monetarily.  (Or on what scale

Yes, beer is produced commercially cheaper, in some cases.  You can
figure $10 for 5 gallons of a basic recipe, not including heat to boil.
For $15 per 5 gallons you can brew a real good home brew including liquid
yeast starter.  But as with many other things, there is little value in
discussing price when quality and personal satisfaction is involved.  How
much does fish cost if you go out and catch it yourself?  Do you include
the transportation, the rod and reel, the time, etc?  The point is that
for $15 you can brew 5 gallons of beer which you cannot buy anywhere else.
Plus, it will be the best beer in the world, because *you* brewed it!

>would it be profitable?)  I'm also curious as to the timescales
>that are involved.  (How long does it take to make a "good" beer)
>What kind of capital is needed?

By profitable, I take it to mean professional.  You must brew at least
1000 bbl per year to support a brewpub, as far as I can tell.  Above that,
the sky is the limit.

It takes about two weeks for a microbrewery to brew ale.  It takes the
homebrewer about 4-6 weeks to brew a comparable ale.  As for lager, the
homebrewer can brew in about the same time as the US commercial brewers--
at least 6 weeks.  2-3 months is preferred.

To be able to brew a good beer without creating a disaster in your kitchen
and pissing off everyone who lives in the house with you, you will need 
certain basic equipment.  This equipment will cost about $50 for the 
materials needed to brew an extract beer.  To go all grain will require
another $25-$50.  After that, various other pieces of equipment will enter
in to the picture.  These will be devices to aid in the brewing, such as
a wort chiller, etc.

Other contributors will have different, but similar experiences and
comments.

Now stop wondering about it and join in!! You will have endless joy
and intrigue in your future!!  Start getting that equipment together!

Florian


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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 21:59:59 MDT
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: off tastes from honey

RussG writes:

>I've also got a brown ale of sorts that has been bottle for 10 days or so, and
>it is not clearing at all (unlike all my other batches). I also has a sharply
>"homebrew" taste (sour, bitter, off, but not particularly bad). It is my first
>batch using honey (2 lbs. of bargain stuff). Is the honey responsible? Is is
>the dreaded "I" word?  I'm letting it sit for a couple of weeks.....

Honey beers take much longer to age than other beers.  Try letting your beer
set for a couple of months.  I often make ginger-honey beers (a la TCJoHB) that
can take up to six months to be drinkable but eventually become heavenly.

BTW, I object to the expression `"homebrew" taste'.  There was some traffic
recently ranking homebrew as somewhere below American microbreweries and above
American megabreweries.  If anyone doesn't consider homebrew to be better than
the microbreweries and generally as good or better than the best commercially
available brews, then that person has been drinking the wrong homebrew.

Louis Clark
mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #467, 07/25/90
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