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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  RE: Homebrew Digest #467 (July 25, 1990) ("BONAR")
  TCJoHB Index (Jeff Benson)
  Juniper Ale? (Wayne Allen)
  Ballantine IPA and Falstaff (Ihor W. Slabicky)
  Ballantine IPA (cckweiss)
  Re:  Why Homebrewing? (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Chilling Ale (Len Reed)
  Re: Cooling Lager Yeasts (Len Reed)
  lager yeast pitching (florianb)
  juniper berries (florianb)
  Original gravity (Bill Crick)
  grungy plastic (lou)
  Re: Cornelius kegs and parties (Chuck Cox)


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Date: 25 Jul 90 08:33:00 EDT
From: "BONAR" <bonar at pine.circa.ufl.edu>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #467 (July 25, 1990)

	The time has come when I have to have my name deleted.  I like
the list and will look for some way to pick it up later but I just don't 
have the time to give it lots of attention now.

Dave



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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 9:16:58 CDT
From: Jeff Benson <benson at chemsun.chem.UMN.EDU>
Subject: TCJoHB Index


Florian writes in HD 467:

>Hands down, Papazain's book "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" is the
>best beginner's book.  If it had an index, it would be better, but the
>index is available from electronic archives.  Query for more details.

Amen, let's hear it for 'ol CP!  I, like many other homebrewers, used
TCJoH to learn to basics of brewing and I still consult it regularly.

The index Florian mentions is fairly complete and accurate.  However, 
if you make a print-out of the raw text file, it comes out sized for 
8.5"X11" pages.  Since TCJoH is printed on much smaller pages, you have
to fold the index sheets in half to fit them in the book.  So, I got out
the mighty Macintosh/Word 4.0 duo and whipped that index into shape.
The final result has double columns, page headers, page numbers, with
fonts and layout chosen and sized to closely match that of the book.
Just print it out double-sided on your friendly neighborhood Laserwriter,
chop the pages down to size with a paper cutter and it's done.  I also
took the liberty of expanding the listings in a couple areas to make it
more complete.  If anyone would like a copy of this Mac Word document,
send me a mailing direct and I'll forward a copy as a Stuffit/Binhex
archive file.

To be fair, someone else (I forget who) has also converted the CJoH
index into Word 4.0 and advertised it a month or two ago in the Homebrew
Digest.  I haven't seen this person's work and it may be as good or
better than mine.  I can look up the posting if someone wants to know
who it was.  But talk about working in parallel: this other index was
advertised about a day before I was ready to post mine.  So I just held
off until now.

Jeff Benson                       Internet:  benson at chemsun.chem.umn.edu
Univ. of Minnesota, Dept. of Chemistry
Minneapolis, MN  55455

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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 10:18:56 CDT
From: wa%cadillac.cad.mcc.com at MCC.COM (Wayne Allen)
Subject: Juniper Ale?


John Watson (the "Civil Servant from Hell" !) quotes a nice Thoreau 
passage and writes:

>Did the juniper taste come from berries or its storage in juniper barrels?
>Assume the above juniper taste came from the berries,
>has anyone ever made an Ale using them?  I would think it might
>make a sort of gin tasting beer.  How much do you think you'd use?

I believe that juniper has been used in beer in Northern Europe for ages.
I have toyed with the idea of doing this, but haven't for some reason.

Mr. Watson also advises us to "Homebrew Naked!". I used to do this,
but the last time I did so I mistakenly turned on a burner underneath
a pyrex bowl containing a large quantity of cracked grains.  The bowl
exploded from thermal stress while I was in close proximity, covering
me (and my kitchen) with grain debris and tiny bleeding nicks.
Standing there naked, bleeding, and barefoot among hundreds of shards
of glass hidden under a fine coating of grain, I resolved to wear
something next time (if only tennis shoes!).
 _
 W	| Wayne Allen, wa at mcc.com uunet!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cadillac!wa
	| MCC/CAD, 3500 West Balcones Center Dr, Austin, Tx 78759 (512)338-3754
	| I really really really really really really really like girls!!!!
	| Oh yeah I really really really really really really really
	| like girls!!!  I like'm tall!! I like'm small!! I like'm
	| AAAAAAALLLLLLLL!!!!!!  - Hank Williams, Jr.


   

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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 09:33:19 -0400
From: iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Ihor W. Slabicky)
Subject: Ballantine IPA and Falstaff

	------------------------------
	
	Date:     Tue, 24 Jul 90 09:18 EST
	From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (RUSSG)
	Subject:  starter hops, IPA
	
	Has anyone tried a Ballantine IPA?  I had a few of them recently
	and liked it very much. Falstaff Brewing Co.!  Why can't more
	small breweries make a good beer, rather than try to compete
	with Swiller et.al?

I may be misreading your posting, but I hope that you are NOT
implying that Falstaff is a small brewer.  Falstaff, in it's
heyday, was (imho) the King of Swiller!  In the late 60's and
early 70's, they would buy up all these smaller, local, breweries
that were falling on hard times, take their brand names, close the
breweries, and brew these brand names in their bigger breweries
at a much reduced taste and quality level.  I think they gave the
buy-the-little-guy-and-be-a-big-conglamorate idea to the big boys.
Ballantine of Newark, and Narragansett of Rhode Island are two
examples that I can think of on the East Coast, and I think they
are the the forces behind General on the West Coast (and correct
me if I err).  Ballantines was closed, and their brews went to hell
when they started being brewed out of Cranston and Fort Wayne.
Probably the four good brews they made were Ballantine's Brewer's
Gold Ale (during the late 70's and early 80's), Narragansett Porter
(which was not too bad but I don't think is available now), the
Haffenreffer Malt Liquor (rather malty) and Ballantine IPA (which
is still made, and surprisingly, does have a unique taste, and a
good one, too!).  The Brewer's Gold was somewhere between the
Ballantine XXX Ale (almost no hops taste) and the IPA (can sometimes
be TOO hoppy) in taste and strength of hoppiness.  The Narragansett
brewery in Cranston was closed in the early 80's, so everything is
now brewed in Fort Wayne.  Meanwhile, Falstaff is sitting on the
property in Cranston, maybe waiting to open up the place as condos
or a minimall :-(

Enjoy the Ballantine IPA, but remember it is made by one of the
earliest brewry busters and taste ruiners around!

Ihor

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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 08:24:28 -0700
From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu
Subject: Ballantine IPA


Russ Gelina asks if anyone has tried Ballantine IPA (now brewed by Falstaff).

I was introduced to IPA at the tender age of 17, by my freshman year calculus
instructor. As I recall, he said "This is real good beer. I drink five or six
of these, and wake up the next mornining with no memory." Back then (1970)
Ballantine was still an independant brewery, producing in New York. I've 
tasted IPA recently, and I think it was a more strongly hopped and more
alcoholic product back then. Could just be time distortion, though, and the
effect of getting used to a more highly hopped beer than the Genessee and
Colt 45 I drank in my youth.

On the topic of lost beers of my bygone days, has anyone tasted a beer called
Trommer's (The All Malt Beer)? I'd love to see a recipe that came close to
duplicating it...

Ken Weiss
cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu

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Date: Wednesday, 25 Jul 1990 13:34:55 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Why Homebrewing?

>Date: Mon, 23 Jul 90 13:47:02 -0500
>From: Michael Rosen <mirrosen at silver.ucs.indiana.edu>

>I am new to the idea of homebrew, and everything attached to
>it, but it is a subject that intrigues me a lot.  I was wondering
>if there were any standard texts,  or advice that all of you
>vets out there can give me.

The two basic texts I rely on (and I like having both, as they
have different approaches) are
_The_Complete_Handbook_Of_Home_Brewing, by Dave Miller, and
Papazian's _The_Complete_Joy_Of_Home_Brewing.

The most basic advice I can give to the first time homebrewer is
this:  Write down everything you plan to do before you do it, and
leave room for notes about lessons learned or extra steps
performed.  This will be invaluable in doing it the first few
times without forgetting something.

>Also, I was curious about the economic realaties of homebrewing.
>Is it the type of thing where beer/mead/whatnot is produced
>cheaper commercially?  I acknowledge that making it is half the
>fun, but was curious if it was also cheaper monetarily.

This discussion comes up on a regular basis.

                   Big Breweries               Homebrewers
                   -------------               -----------
Supplies           Cheaper in bulk             More expensive
Labor              They pay for some           Not counted
Distribution          ditto                    Not done
Advertising           ditto                      ditto

So, if it costs you $10-$20 to make two cases, will you end up
spending more than buying beer?  Depending on the quality of the
commercial beer, the answer may be yes or may be no.

On one hand, you may never end up making a stout you like as much
as Guiness, but you may also find your own bitter or amber ale
better than what you can find in the stores, and your favorite
coffee porter or rasperry lager may simply be unavailable at all
commercially.

An analogy I use a lot is with bread.

The megabrewers only make the equivalent of Wonderbread.

The regional brewers make the equivalent of packaged whole grain
etc. breads.

Your local brewpub or microbrewery makes the equivalent of bakery
bread.

Your homebrew is like fresh baked bread right from the oven.

John "And fresh beer is like fresh bread, a taste that can't
easily be described, but is wonderful." DeCarlo

ARPANET:  M14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm at mitre.arpa)
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 10:24:34 EDT
From: holos0!lbr at gatech.edu (Len Reed)
Subject: Re: Chilling Ale

J.L. Palladino, Trinity College" <PALLADIN at vax1.trincoll.edu> writes:
>Has anyone tried chilling an ale down to 55 deg F while it was
>in secondary (glass) in order to get suspended yeast to settle faster?
>It seems to be working but I'm *concerned* (not worried) that when I 
>bottle at room temp the yeast will not reactivate and carbonate, leaving
>flat beer.  Any suggestions?  

No problem.  Even dropping the temperature into the low forties won't kill
the yeast; they will go dormant (or nearly so) at lower temperatures.  Enough
yeast will remain in suspension for bottle priming even if the beer
is perfectly clear.

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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 11:05:23 EDT
From: holos0!lbr at gatech.edu (Len Reed)
Subject: Re: Cooling Lager Yeasts

Kenneth R. van Wyk <krvw at cert.sei.cmu.edu> writes:

>Noonan suggests (demands?!)  pitching the [lager] yeast at very low
>temperatures (~45F, I believe) and that the starter culture be at high
>krausen at pitching time.  Also, Wyeast says that its liquid yeast
>cultures should be incubated at 70-80F.  Finally, Noonan says that
>under no circumstances should the yeast be cooled more than 5F per day
>and that the starter culture should be no more than 5F more than the
>wort at pitching time.
>
>I pitched my yeast at cold (for summer) room temp, about 68-70F, and
>then cooled the wort to 48F in my fridge, but I'm afraid that I
>shocked the yeast into hibernation.

You probably have shocked the yeast.  You didn't say which strain of
yeast you used.  Get the temperature of the wort up to 53-56 and wait.
It may take four weeks to ferment since the yeast must be revitalized.
The beer may also take longer to age, but I'm not sure about that.  If
you're made of money you could pitch more yeast.

Noonan talks about traditional German lager brewing without much indication
of how things differ elsewhere in the world.  His fermentation schedules
don't work too well with some Wyeast strains.  Because of his low temperatures,
I shocked a few batches until I quit trying to be so fancy about day-to-day
temperature adjustments and settled upon the strategy I now use.  (Shock
is when fermentation slows to a crawl because the temperature was prematurely
lowered.  Raising the temperature back causes fermentation to pick up, but
at a far lower rate than was occurring before the shock.)

I use home-canned wort for a starter.  I pop the seal on the Wyeast pack
and leave it at room temperature.  When it is swollen, I add it to the
starter which is 50 degF.  I let it ferment at 55 degrees until it's at high
kraesen.  I then pitch it into the 53 degree wort.  I let fermentation
run to completion at 52-56 degrees.  Allow 3-4 days from popping the
yeast seal to pitching into the main wort.

I don't like temperatures over 56.  Fifty or below may shock the yeast.
Forty-five *will* shock the yeast.  (Beware that I'm talking about the
temperature of the wort as measured with a probe; at high kraesen the
temperature in the fridge will be about 5 degrees lower.  The fermenting
wort is a considerable source of heat.)

As fermentation completes, I slowly lower the temperature to settle the yeast.
I don't lower the temperature at all until the beer is almost done
fermenting--at least down to 1.016.  I'm still experimenting with lagering
schedules, but I'm certain about the fermentation.

I consider Wyeast's suggestion to pitch at 70 degrees wrong.  There's
no reason ferment this high.  Doing so probably won't shock the yeast, though;
that seems to be caused more by low temperature than by lowering the
temperature.

Be wary of Noonan's temperatures.  If you cold shock your yeast a
fermentation that should take 10 days will take four weeks, even after
you raise the temperature back up.  My fermentation schedule works great
with St. Louis, Danish, and Bavarian yeasts.  It should work with New Ulm--
but I have only negative data here: high forties shocked that yeast.
It is said that the German lager yeast (#308?, I'm working from memory
here) works better at low temperatures and needs a diacytl boost; I have
not used that yeast and wouldn't recommend complicated fermentation
schedules to a beginning lager brewer.

I should note that I've not recommended a strange schedule.  Much of the
world including the US and Holland/Denmark ferment in the low to mid fifties.
Applying Noonan's method to American or Danish yeast is asking for trouble.

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Date: 25 Jul 90 11:25:07 PDT (Wed)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: lager yeast pitching

In yesterday's digest, Kenneth R. van Wyk asks about pitching yeast in
lager beer wort:

>So, how do you all start your yeast for lagering?  Get it going at 70F
>and then slowly cool to 45F for pitching?  By Noonan's standards, that
>would take 5 days just to cool the little beasties.
>
>I pitched my yeast at cold (for summer) room temp, about 68-70F, and
>then cooled the wort to 48F in my fridge, but I'm afraid that I
>shocked the yeast into hibernation.  I'm concerned - but not worried

There are quite a number of ways to do this.  Normally, I make the starter
at 70F or so.  Then I pitch the yeast into the chilled (70F) wort, areate,
then jam it into the frigerator.  Within one day, it is cooled to 48F,
and I usually witness the yeast forming the foam layer shortly thereafter.

An alternative would be to make the starter at 48F, chill the wort to 48F
and pitch when the starter is at high krausen.  If you broke the liquid
culture at room T and chilled it at 5 degrees per day, it would indeed take
too long.

It is very easy to shock lager yeast, especially the Wyeast liquid cultures.
I try to make the transitions gradually in order to prevent this.  The first
method I mentioned seems to work well.  In the occasions when it didn't, 
I was doing something stupid like pitching the starter into wort that was
too warm compared to the starter, or dumping the liquid culture from room T
into 48F wort.  Then I saw long lag times.

Good Luck!  Florian.



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Date: 25 Jul 90 12:34:03 PDT (Wed)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: juniper berries

In #467, John S. Watson brought us a delightful quote from Thoreau 
regarding juniper ale.  John asked about whether HDT was confusing
juniper with spruce.

Of course none of us who will read this was present when HDT found
that bottle, so it's impossible to say whether it was in fact juniper
or spruce.  However, there is nothing unusual about it being juniper.
Certainly juniper was available at the time, and I have read of
juniper being used in ale.  Perhaps there is someone reading this who
has, in fact, used juniper in ale.  If so, then *I* have a question:

I live in the great juniper forest of central Oregon; I have approximately
100 juniper trees on my property.  Most of these are loaded with juniper
berries year-round.  In certain years, the robins congregate to gorge
themselves on the ripe, sweet, fermenting berries.  They feed on these
things until they get crazy, flying into each other, screaming at each
other, and some eventually taking dives into the great gabled windows
of our log home.  During these times, I have sampled the berries and
found them delightfully juicy and sweet.  But the aroma is so powerful
that my wife wouldn't let me near her afterward.  So I got the idea to
use these in a winter ale.  However, I have been unable to judge how
many, which type (several varieties of trees exist), which size, etc
to use.  I just don't want to ruin 5 gallons of otherwise good ale by
dumping in a cup of these, for example.  So if anyone is reading who
has experience with this, please speak up.  In any case, this fall I
have resolved to just go for it and use, say, 1 tablespoon of plump
berries in a porter.  Looking forward to hearing from someone...

Florian


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Date: 25 Jul 90 20:20:54 GMT
From: bnrgate!bnr-rsc!crick at uunet.UU.NET (Bill Crick)
Subject: Original gravity

Someone mentioned that a lot of prizewinning recipes don't include initial
gravity, and that it must be an accident that the beer was good.
Measuring the initial gravity has absolutely no influence in the outcome of 
beer. It is the ingredients, and the process that make the beer.
I tend to brew by the seat of my pants. I have an idea about what I want to
make, and throw the appropriate things in (sometimes with the help of a 
generic style <-> ingredients chart), to make that kind of beer. I gave up 
measuring SG years ago. If I put in the right stuff, and do it right, 
I'll get the beer I am trying for. As I see it, every time you measure
SG, you risk contamination. Why bother. I try not to mess with my beer
while it is fermenting. Maybe the lack of OG measurements in prizewinning
beers is a message that not playing in your beer leads to better beer;-)
 and hence winners? It could also be that the skilled brewers feel as I do.
 The one exception to this I can think of isiIf you are mashing an all grain 
brew, and are unsure of the process, then initial gravity will help 
you gauge your extraction and converion efficiency.

I don't even measure terminal gravity. If I'm unsure if it is ready, 
Then I jus tleave it in the carboy another month or so. Or if I'm really 
worried, I sometimes will taste a bit, and see how sweet it is compared to
how sweet I expect it to be. Any one want to buy a used hydrometer?

Displacement, Ergo nonsum?  Bill Crick

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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 18:09:33 MDT
From: lou%mage.UUCP at hplb.hpl.hp.com
Subject: grungy plastic

In HBD #467:

>I just purchased some used equipment (air traps and a racking tube) and they
>look kind of grungy. Can anyone suggest a good way of cleaning them. I was
>thinking of just soaking them in a bleach solution, but I remembered someone
>saying that bleach might be damaging to some equipment. These are plastic
>parts with rubber stoppers.

I'm sorry to tell you this, Rick, but I think you've been had.  This type of
equipment should always be rinsed thoroughly after use - if yours has something
on it then it has not been properly handled.  If, on the other hand, you're
talking about stains, TCJoHB recommends tossing your plastic equipment when it
gets heavily stained.  Either way, it sounds like you were sold some stuff that
it's owner considered unfit for use.  I would suggest you 1) throw it away, 2)
find someone else to sell it to, or 3) find a baseball bat and have a serious
talk with whoever sold it to you.

BTW, this type of equipment should be soaked in bleach solution each time you
use it.

Louis Clark
mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 11:31:21 EDT
From: harley!chuck at uunet.UU.NET (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Re: Cornelius kegs and parties

Well, you could use a hand pump to push air into your keg,
but I have some general ideas about homebrew and parties that may
be of interest.

At the last national conference (in Oakland) I heard about and eventually
got to see in action a new type of tap.  The basic idea is to over-pressurize
the keg (around 60 psi as I recall), then use a regulating tap to dispense
the beer at normal pressure (~10psi).  The advantage is that you can
pre-charge the keg at home, then take it to a party without bringing your
co2 tank.  The disadvantage is that you have to drink the beer quickly
before it becomes over-carbonated.  The tap is a self-contained unit
about 6 inches long and about 2 inches in diameter that fits right on
a cornelius keg.  Several of the microbreweries were using this system
at the tasting.  I believe this unit sells for about $50.

If sediment is a problem when transporting kegs to parties, consider
artificial carbonation.  This not only reduces the sediment, it
also makes the beer drinkable sooner.  Artificial carbonation
is easy with kegs.  I won't go into the details here, but if there
is sufficient interest, I could post some info later, or email to
interested parties.

Finally, if you think taking homebrew to a party is like casting
pearls before swine, consider high-gravity brewing.
I make a beer called Easy Living Pale Ale.  I brew up a 7 gallon batch
with a gravity of about 1100, like a good barleywine.
When the beer is ready to keg, I split it into 3 kegs, resulting
in 15 gallons of pale ale, which I artifically carbonate.
Since I only take one keg to each party, I am ready for 3 parties.
Using this technique I can have the kegs ready to drink within 3 weeks
of brewing.  This beer won't win any competitions, but it is clean, light
and thirst quenching, and a sure-fire way to guarantee invitations to
lots of parties.

 - Chuck Cox (uunet!bose!chuck) -
 - america's fastest brewer - Hopped/Up Racing Team - 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #468, 07/26/90
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