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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Yeast Viability, regulator ("Dave Burley")
  RE: Regulator problem (Bill Tobler)
  methylene blue and yeast viability ("Dave Burley")
  viability-pc-plastic-celebration (Steve Funk)
  RE: Regulator problem ("Mike Sharp")
  transfer to secondary early (problem?) (leavitdg)
  Polyethylene ("Martin Brungard")
  Stainless Cleaning ("Martin Brungard")
  Re: Regulator Problem (Kent Fletcher)
  Merry Christmas! ("Pat Babcock")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:31:56 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Yeast Viability, regulator

Brewsters:

/Fredrik is concerned about the definition of viability of yeast and the 
accuracy of the Methylene Blue reduction by viable cells.

I thhink I have read commments on this, but can't remember where. I think it 
was in a US publication and likely a beer related one.

Also check out

http://www.jcb.org/cgi/content/abstract/152/3/553

This is the Carlsburg Yeast Laboratory ( not a person) and this reference may 
provide some way into their publications.
- --------------------
Dave Draper has a bound up regulator screw. Dave, I suspect you have someting 
caught in the threads of the regulator screw or it somehow became cross 
threaded.  Regulators are normally pretty easy to take apart and I would 
recommend that.  Once apart you can clean up the threads.

And, of course, that magic fixum, right up there with masking tape, a light 
application and wipe off of  "WD-40 " should be helpful.

Just a side note, never use a flammable organic lubricant with an oxygen 
regulator but with CO2 it is OK.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley 




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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:59:04 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <brewbetter at houston.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Regulator problem

Dave's regulator from St. Pats froze up and want's to know if it can be 
fixed.  Dave, the only Regulator St. Pat's sells is the NADS model.  
(according to their web site)    These regulators can be taken apart 
fairly easy and cleaned.  Going to the NADS web site, I found a 
breakdown of this regulator.

http://www.nadsinc.com/secondary_reg_spare_parts.htm

No instructions, but a pretty good break down of parts.  More Beer 
sells a repair kit for a NSDS regulator for about 7 dollars.

http://www.morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=16191

One reason the regulator may have failed is if at some time you got 
beer backed up into the body.  This could happen if you force carbonate 
your kegs.  Most regulators have a check valve on the gas out line, but 
these could fail.  I keep my CO2 bottle high on a table with the CO2 
line draped over my shoulder to help keep out the beer.

Don't be afraid to take the thing apart.  The very worst that can 
happen, is it won't work when you're done.  No big deal, it don't work 
now.

Happy Holidays everyone!!


Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.2, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian
Brewing Great Beer in South Texas



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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:06:34 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: methylene blue and yeast viability

Brewsters:

I did another quick search when I rememeberd it was an article by the American 
Society of Brewing Chemists where I had seen a discussion of this method using 
methylene blue for yeast viability and questioning its accuracy.

http://www.asbcnet.org/Journal/abstracts/search/1999/0204-03a.htm

Publication no. J-1999-0204-03R

/Fredrik, Perhaps your library can get you a copy or has online access.

http://www.asbcnet.org/discussion/yeastworkshop.htm

Here is a test procedure published by White Labs on just this subject of yeast 
viability testing. Any questions I imagine they will be able to answer any 
questions.

http://www.whitelabs.com/cell_count.html

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley 




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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:32:44 -0800
From: Steve Funk <steve at hheco.com>
Subject: viability-pc-plastic-celebration

/Fredrik,
Is there another way to measure viability besides estimating from cfu 
plate counts?  It would seem to me that dormant cells as well as viable 
cells reproduce given nutrients.  Way back when, I remember using 
microscopy stains to differentiate between DNA and RNA in bacterial 
slide preparations of Clostridium bifermentans.  RNA quantity was much 
higher in active cells compared to dormant cells.  Maybe acridine 
orange?  Yes, here is a blurb from 
http://www.molbio.princeton.edu/facility/flowcyt/Cycle1.html

ACRIDINE ORANGE: Differential Staining of DNA/RNA with ACRIDINE ORANGE 
(AO) can be performed for simultaneous assessment of DNA and RNA content 
of cells. The AO exhibits different spectral characteristics when bound 
to DNA or RNA that can be excited at 488 nm with either a GREEN or RED 
fluorescence respectively.


Dave Burley,
Thanks for the banter on PC and I couldn't agree with you more. 
However, I don't believe our beloved HBD is the proper venue for such a 
diatribe.  Can we please keep it beer related?


Joe Aistrup,
I think the general consensus for fermenting in plastic, albeit high- or 
medium-density PE, is that it is fine for shorter periods of time, let's 
say up to a couple weeks.  This should be adequate for most primary 
fermentations and even some secondary ferments using ale yeasts.  If 
you're feeling inquisitive, perform an experiment with a split batch and 
use glass or a corny for one half and plastic for the other half.  Age 
both for a couple months then evaluate and don't forget to report your 
observations to us.


Dave in ABQ,
There are regulator rebuild kits available for most mainstream brands. 
That said, I'd opt for a new one since they're really affordable (search 
archives for options).  I tend to think of rebuilt regulators like 
rebuilt engine carburetors, they work but never like new ones.


HBDers- what are you serving over the holidays?  I have a wonderful 
oatmeal stout that will no doubt be drained before '05.  I have 
commercial back up too; this years SN Celebration is a thing of beauty. 
  I don't remember previous versions of this brew being so tasty. 
Comments anyone?

I would like to wish each and every one you a safe and happy holiday season.
Cheers,
Steve Funk
Stevenson, WA




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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:45:13 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Regulator problem

Dave Draper ask about his Regulator problem

"Can this thing be fixed?  If so how?"

Well, I'm going to start off with what might be a stupid question...

Does the screw adjuster have a nut on it?  This is probably obvious, but
it's there to lock the screw so it can't slip.  Loosen the nut, then see if
the screw can turn.

If there is no nut, or it's already loose and the screw won't turn, then it
sounds bad.  It could be the threads are gummed up.  I've had regulators jam
before because a faulty check valve let beer or soda back into the
regulator, but that clogs the needle valve, and the regulator leaks and the
pressure rises in the keg.  It sound like something is either jamming the
thread, or the spring inside that the screw turns against is
broken/dislodged.  You can usually take the dome off the regulator (make
sure it's not attached to the bottle or the keg. doh!) and the whole screw
and the spring underneath are exposed.  Be careful of the exposed diaphragm,
though it might be under a protective steel plate.  

My local homebrewing supply has a complete set of parts for most brands of
regulator.  I've taken old faulty regulators down there, and he's completely
rebuilt them for the price of the parts, which is less than 10 bucks I
think.  After watching him struggle with one particularly old Cornelius
regulator, I'm glad I let him do it.  You get a new diaphragm, valve seat,
etc.  That's probably what I'd do--take it to your FNHBS, so that when you
find the framistat is busted, or dinglehopper is bent, you can get a new
one.

Regards,
Mike Sharp



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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:59:02 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: transfer to secondary early (problem?)

Do you think that problems occur if one transfers to secondary before the yeast 
has completed its work?  I ask in that my last few brews have been up at 1.02 
or so after sufficient time had passed.  I notice that they continue to work in 
the secondary (good), but wonder if there are some risks by transferring before 
the target gravity is met?

One of these, by the way, is the London III Yeast from Wyeast, and I see that 
it is also quite cloudy.  Is anyone familiar with this yeast, and is this 
typical?

Happy Holidays, and Happy Brewing!

 ..Darrell




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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:07:17 -0900
From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com>
Subject: Polyethylene


I just happen to have a great deal of experience with HDPE and LDPE through 
my engineering experience in the design and construction of hazardous and 
municipal landfills and ponds.

With regard to the difference between polyethylene grades.  Polyethylene is 
manufactured in several densities ranging from ultra-high density, high 
density, medium density, low density, and linear low density polyethylene.

Obviously, the main differentiator is density, but that doesn't mean much to 
a lay person.  Functionally, the difference between the various grades is 
the crystallinity of the polyethylene material structure.  Higher density 
grades are more crystalline than lower densities.  The result of greater 
crystallinity is that the material is stronger and stiffer.

For instance, low density polyethylene sheet (100 mil thickness) has a 
breaking strength of 380 pounds per inch at a strain or 850 percent.  High 
density polyethylene sheet (same thickness) has a breaking strength of 405 
pounds per inch at a strain of 700 percent.

The difference in vapor tranmission between the various grades is minimal.  
The main thing needed to reduce vapor transmission is thickness.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL




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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:24:09 -0900
From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com>
Subject: Stainless Cleaning


Again, my experience in the hazardous waste industry provides guidance for 
stainless steel cleaning.

These procedures are common when cleaning and decontaminating stainless 
steel samplers and other equipment for use in collecting analytical soil and 
water samples for environmental testing.

The first step is removal of soil and matter from the equipment using a bath 
and scrub in a laboratory-grade cleaner such as Liquinox or Alconox.  I 
would think that PBW would probably be equivalent.

The next step is a rinse with a non-polar solvent such as methanol or 
ethanol.  By the way, water is a "polar" solvent.  The non-polar solvent 
flushes organic pollutants off the metal.

The next step is a rinse with a strong nitric acid solution (usually about 1 
molar strength).  The acid flushes metallic pollutants off the metal.

The next step is to rinse in de-ionized water.  This removes all the 
cleaning solutions.  Since you're probably not going to use this pump to 
collect a water sample that will be tested for contaminants in the parts per 
million range or below, I would say that a rinse with clean tap water would 
be perfectly fine.

This is an EPA approved cleaning methodology, so you can be assured that the 
method does remove all contaminants.  As a quality assurance measure in the 
hazardous material business, a piece of equipment cleaned in this manner is 
flushed with more de-ionized water and the water sample is tested for any 
contaminants.  It rarely fails.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL




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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:46:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Regulator Problem

David's regulator adjustment stem is frozen.

First the obvious:  Is the jam nut backet off?  Don't
mean to insult you or anything, but I've seen guys not
realize that the jam nut had cinched down, preventing
the adjustment stem from turning.  After all, that's
what the nut is there for: to lock in a particular
pressure.

Assuming that the nut is backed off, I would say the
best step is to remove the regulator from the
cylinder, disassemble it, clean all the parts and then
reassemble.   You may want to consiser putting a check
valve on the output, to keep beer from getting in to
the regulator and gumming it up, which is a common
cause of this problem. Hope that helps.

Kent Fletcher
Brewing in So Cal


		


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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:45:33 -0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Merry Christmas!



Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to some of Renner's Egg Nog!


Since tomorrow will be pure craziness, I thought I'd take this opportunity to 
wish all of you a happy and safe Christmas! Please savor the flavor 
responsibly - be someone's hero: be a designated driver!




And since Jeff has neglected to publish his now world-famous eggnog recipe, I 
repeat herein (tradition, dontchaknow!):

- ---------

My father was not a big drinker or a cook, but he was famous among 
friends and family for his egg nog. It had a kick. It was an old 
recipe that he modified (probably increased the booze!) from one in a 
magazine ad for Four Roses Blended Bourbon in the 1930's or 40's. 
Straight bourbon is much to be preferred.

Last evening I took a double batch to a potluck party. I made a 
further modification - an inadvertent, serendipitous mistake, that 
made it much better as a casual drinking egg nog. I used twice the 
proper amount of half and half (resulting in proportionally half the 
eggs, sugar and liquor). Strangely, it seemed still to be well 
balanced. The original one is twice as strong and is a wonderful 
drink, but the flavor of the liquor is more evident and it must be 
drunk with more caution. More like a cocktail, I guess. I like them 
both, but I think that the milder one is better suited to casual 
drinking, especially by people who don't like the full flavor of 
whiskey. And they are both easy enough to make that you'll never buy 
that horrible stuff from the grocery store again.


Harry Renner's Egg Nog

6 eggs, separated
3/4 cup sugar (set aside 1/4 cup)
1 qt. cereal milk [half and half, or one pint each milk and whipping cream]
1 cup straight bourbon
2 oz. Jamaican dark rum

Beat egg whites until stiff, fold or beat in 1/4 cup sugar. Set 
aside. Beat egg yolks with 1/2 cup sugar, fold into egg white mix. 
Add cereal milk, bourbon and rum. Serve topped with grated nutmeg.

The mistake I made was to use a *quart* each of skim milk and 
whipping cream (actually I made a double batch; or was it a 
quadruple?).

Dad always used Myer's rum and Old Forester bourbon, but if you are 
making it full strength and will be able to taste the liquor, better 
bourbon will make a difference. Two years ago we used Knob Creek 
(~$25) and the difference was remarkable. Jim Beam Black Label 
(~$15) or Wild Turkey 101 (~$18) would be two other, less expensive, 
but still somewhat premium choices. Of course, these three are 
higher proof, so drink accordingly. I suspect there are better 
choices than Myer's rum, too, but it has served us well.

And now an amusing anecdote for your holiday enjoyment:

Scene: a streetcar in Cincinnati, circa 1950.
Characters: Little four-year-old Jeff and his grandma, returning 
from downtown Christmas shopping, and other passengers.

Jeff, in a loud voice: "Grandma, don't forget you said that you 
needed to stop and get rummy for the egg noggin!"

Grandma and passengers laugh.

Jeff feels very embarrassed and the memory is seared in his brain, 
even though no one else remembers.

Happy holidays!

Jeff

=================

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE MI
Chief of Janitorial Services


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