HOMEBREW Digest #4681 Wed 22 December 2004

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  Viability of population vs individuals / met.bl.metod flaw(?) ("Fredrik")
  Thanks, I think? ("Joe Aistrup")
  Cleveland Pub Crawl, Jan 15th (Art Beall)
  Celis Grand Cru (Michael Hetzel)
  Re: how to clean a SS mag drive pump ("Mike Sharp")
  Regulator problem ("Dave Draper")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:15:18 +0100 From: "Fredrik" <carlsbergerensis at hotmail.com> Subject: Viability of population vs individuals / met.bl.metod flaw(?) Dave, much tanks for your comments. I haven't actually read any of Carlsbergs original work, but I suspect there is a difference between viable and viability like if one consider the population as a unit and not the collection of individuals, it's clearly either alive or not. And the % viable cells in the population is then rather a kind of measure of the health of he population. Then I can actually buy 30 years, but the viability is I figure bound to be extremely low. If the as little as 0.001% of the population is alive, the population as such is viable. I am trying to understand this by merging together my limited experience and anything that I have read on yeast. So far everything made quite decent sense. But the datapoint of 86% viability after 19 months simply does not merge properly with everything else (I thought) I "knew". I do not believe it, *somthing* is wrong *somewhere*, but I am not entirely sure what, so be it if it's my head but I'd like to find it. I am going to plate the cells and estimate the viability cfu-wise, now time has passed, but things indicate that I will still be able to prove that the methyelen blue method is quite off in this case. The question is why. I found an interesting abstract that confirms one of the theories I had, that enzymes release during early autolysis can reduce the dye. Perhaps initiation of autolysis enzymes simply make the staining method completely inaccurate? This would http://www.mbaa.com/TechQuarterly/Abstracts/1997/tq97ab13.htm be a satisfactory explanation and most likely one so far. Now unfortunately I have such a small sample volume left that it's hard to measure pH, unless I dilute it. Too bad it seems I can't order the article online by credit card, perhaps I'll try to connect to these folks and see if the will mail internationally. Does anyone have any experience with buying articles from this company internationally? So the hypotheisis would then be that the methylene blue works fine for moderately old yeasts, but once some of the autolysis routines are initated(??), previously stained cells start to reduce the dye by a completely different mechanism that in live lives, giving complete bogus readings may be totally off like I suspect I am seeing here?? I am going to work on this hypothesis and see if I can prove or disprove it. I'll also investigate if there is a sensible way to get hold of that article, as I suspect it's head on what I have found. If you store in water, beer, or salt, I think the cells are bound to go dormant anyway(??) as there is no food what options to they have? so I don't see any magic with the water as such, except that beer is probably not optimal because of the ethanol stress? But that's just my guess. ( I am also going to try to understand the mathematical shape of the viability drop cruve from the fridge slurry test. The interesting parts is the flatteing around 10%.I have a couple of theories, one question is if I repeated the experiment with the same strain, but with different initial conditions, but same viability, would the flattening always occur at around 10%? If so perhaps some 5-10% of the population are hard survivors and the flattening one is witnessing is a selection. The interesting question is how long these last strong x% will stay alive?) /Fredrik Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:42:56 -0600 From: "Joe Aistrup" <joe_aistrup at msn.com> Subject: Thanks, I think? Fellow Brewsters, Thanks for defining SWMBO. I want to especially thank Jeff for providing the link to the web site defining SWMBO. Cool. In asking this question, I did not mean to unleash forces of nature that would result in Dave Burley's assault on any comment that might drift toward being considered PC. This is the HBD. Let us remember that we are united by one passion, brewing. That's it. All other considerations, political, religious, etc. are superfluous. But for the record, yesterday I learned that I live in a house with a SWMBO and I am a HWMNBO (He Who Must NOT Be Obeyed). I'm proud of it. Joe Aistrup Little Apple Brew Crew PS: I never did get a post answering my question about fermenting in medium density polyethylene. Someone want to take a shot at answering this one? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:03:19 -0800 (PST) From: Art Beall <arthurbeall at yahoo.com> Subject: Cleveland Pub Crawl, Jan 15th For those in or near the Cleveland, Ohio area, consider how boring the winters are here... Then...join us for a fun time touring some great brewpubs! What: Cleveland, Ohio Pub Crawl, sponsored by the SAAZ Brew Club. When: Sat Jan 15th , starting at 10:30am Where: Comfort Inn, 130 Montrose Ave. West (within stumbling distance of the Thirsty Dog), Copley (Montrose Area), Ohio. Call for rooms at 330-666-5050. Mention the SAAZ pub crawl for group rate. Cost: $25 Who: email Art at arthurbeall at yahoo dot com for more information Schedule: Brew Kettle Taproom & Smokehouse in Strongsville (lunch) Cornerstone Brewing Company in Berea Rocky River Brewing Willoughby Brewing Company(dinner) Buckeye Brewing Company in Bedford Heights Thirsty Dog (nightcap). Art Beall "Beer is the answer, what was the question?" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 09:32:05 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Hetzel <hetzelnc at yahoo.com> Subject: Celis Grand Cru Jim Layton of Howe, TX writes: > (substantial snip) I still miss that Gran Cru. I just picked up a sixer of it up here in Marborough MA. First time I had seen it, and I don't know how true to form it is to Pierre's version, but its very tasty. Mmmm.. acetic acid. Mike Hetzel Waltham, MA Oh, and in case anyone is still keeping track.. I fit the ethnic homebrewer correlation very well. I'm half Polish, half American (part English, German - see last name, etc). Big fan of big beers (esp Imperial stouts and Baltic porters), tempered by appreciation for low alcohol milds. I guess I just need a break every now and then. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:21:51 -0800 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: how to clean a SS mag drive pump PAUL MANTOVANI asks how to clean a SS mag drive pump "What would be a good procedure to clean the pump assembly thoroughly so I wouldn't have to worry about what I'm adding to my beer? Is there a good chemical I can obtain that would remove any traces of whatever was previously going through this thing?" If you can be sure it wasn't used for something poisonous, re-circulating a nice strong solution of hot sodium hydroxide will dissolve most things organic...I don't know if it will remove mineral-based chemicals though, or solvents. If you don't know what it was used for, I'm not sure I'd use it for food contact. I have a similar pump from ebay that was used to pump some sort of solvent, and while I've been tempted to use it for brewing, so far it's been most useful to pump my chilled glycol. Check to make sure the pump is ok for caustic, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't. Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:02:17 -0700 From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name> Subject: Regulator problem Dear Friends, I'm hoping someone with expertise in regulators can help me out. Mine has begun misbehaving-- the valve stem is stuck, it will no longer turn in either direction, fixing my gas-out pressure at 20 psi. I bought the regulator new from St Pats a couple years ago, and have been careful to blow each newly filled tank clear with a quick blast from the nozzle before re- attaching the regulator after a fill. It went very quickly from normal operation to feeling "seized up", in a couple of days, during which it became increasingly difficult to turn. The stem has just a normal screw-top thingy on it, needing a screwdriver to turn it; no handle. Can this thing be fixed? If so how? Thanks, Dave in ABQ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico David at Draper dot Name Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html Yeast are forgiving unless you really insult them. ---Dan McConnell Return to table of contents
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