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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Viability of population vs individuals / met.bl.metod flaw(?) ("Fredrik")
  Thanks, I think? ("Joe Aistrup")
  Cleveland Pub Crawl, Jan 15th (Art Beall)
  Celis Grand Cru (Michael Hetzel)
  Re: how to clean a SS mag drive pump ("Mike Sharp")
  Regulator problem ("Dave Draper")


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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:15:18 +0100
From: "Fredrik" <carlsbergerensis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Viability of population vs individuals / met.bl.metod flaw(?)

Dave, much tanks for your comments.

I haven't actually read any of Carlsbergs original work, but I suspect 
there is a difference between viable and viability like if one 
consider the population as a unit and not the collection of individuals, 
it's clearly either alive or not. And the % viable cells in the population 
is then rather a kind of measure of the health of he population. Then 
I can actually buy 30 years, but the viability is I figure bound to be 
extremely low. If the as little as 0.001% of the population is alive, 
the population as such is viable.

I am trying to understand this by merging together my limited 
experience and anything that I have read on yeast. So far everything 
made quite decent sense. But the datapoint of 86% viability after 19 
months simply does not merge properly with everything else 
(I thought) I "knew". I do not believe it, *somthing* is wrong 
*somewhere*, but I am not entirely sure what, so be it if it's my head 
but I'd like to find it. I am going to plate the cells and estimate the 
viability cfu-wise, now time has passed, but things indicate that I 
will still be able to prove that the methyelen blue method is quite off 
in this case. The question is why. I found an interesting abstract that 
confirms one of the theories I had, that enzymes release during early 
autolysis can reduce the dye. Perhaps initiation of autolysis enzymes 
simply make the staining method completely inaccurate? This would 
http://www.mbaa.com/TechQuarterly/Abstracts/1997/tq97ab13.htm
be a satisfactory explanation and most likely one so far. Now 
unfortunately I have such a small sample volume left that it's hard 
to measure pH, unless I dilute it. Too bad it seems I can't order the 
article online by credit card, perhaps I'll try to connect to these folks
and see if the will mail internationally. Does anyone have any 
experience with buying articles from this company internationally? 

So the hypotheisis would then be that the methylene blue works fine for 
moderately old yeasts, but once some of the autolysis routines
are initated(??), previously stained cells start to reduce the dye by a 
completely different mechanism that in live lives, giving complete 
bogus readings may be totally off like I suspect I am seeing here??

I am going to work on this hypothesis and see if I can prove or 
disprove it. I'll also investigate if there is a sensible way to get hold
of that article, as I suspect it's head on what I have found.

If you store in water, beer, or salt, I think the cells are bound 
to go dormant anyway(??) as there is no food what options to
they have? so I don't see any magic with the water as such, 
except that beer is probably not optimal because of the ethanol 
stress? But that's just my guess.

( I am also going to try to understand the mathematical shape of the 
viability drop cruve from the fridge slurry test. The interesting parts 
is the flatteing around 10%.I have a couple of theories, one question 
is if I repeated the experiment with the same strain, but with different 
initial conditions, but same viability, would the flattening always occur 
at around 10%? If so perhaps some 5-10% of the population are 
hard survivors and the flattening one is witnessing is a selection. 
The interesting question is how long these last strong x% will stay alive?)

 /Fredrik



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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:42:56 -0600
From: "Joe Aistrup" <joe_aistrup at msn.com>
Subject: Thanks, I think? 

Fellow Brewsters,

Thanks for defining SWMBO.

I want to especially thank Jeff for providing the link to the web site 
defining SWMBO.  Cool.

In asking this question, I did not mean to unleash forces of nature that 
would result in Dave Burley's assault on any comment that might drift toward 
being considered PC.  This is the HBD.  Let us remember that we are united 
by one passion, brewing.  That's it.  All other considerations, political, 
religious, etc. are superfluous. But for the record, yesterday I learned 
that I live in a house with a SWMBO and I am a HWMNBO (He Who Must NOT Be 
Obeyed).  I'm proud of it.

Joe Aistrup
Little Apple Brew Crew

PS: I never did get a post answering my question about fermenting in medium 
density polyethylene. Someone want to take a shot at answering this one?




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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:03:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Art Beall <arthurbeall at yahoo.com>
Subject: Cleveland Pub Crawl, Jan 15th

For those in or near the Cleveland, Ohio area, consider how boring the winters
are here... 

Then...join us for a fun time touring some great brewpubs! 

What: Cleveland, Ohio Pub Crawl, sponsored by the SAAZ Brew Club. 
When: Sat Jan 15th , starting at 10:30am 
Where: Comfort Inn, 130 Montrose Ave. West (within stumbling distance of the
Thirsty Dog), Copley (Montrose Area), Ohio. Call for rooms at 330-666-5050.
Mention the SAAZ pub crawl for group rate. 

Cost: $25 
Who: email Art at arthurbeall at yahoo dot com for more information 
Schedule: 
Brew Kettle Taproom & Smokehouse in Strongsville (lunch) 
Cornerstone Brewing Company in Berea 
Rocky River Brewing 
Willoughby Brewing Company(dinner) 
Buckeye Brewing Company in Bedford Heights 
Thirsty Dog (nightcap).


Art Beall
"Beer is the answer, what was the question?"




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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 09:32:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hetzel <hetzelnc at yahoo.com>
Subject: Celis Grand Cru

Jim Layton of Howe, TX writes:
> (substantial snip) I still miss that Gran Cru.

I just picked up a sixer of it up here in Marborough MA. First time I
had seen it, and I don't know how true to form it is to Pierre's
version, but its very tasty. Mmmm.. acetic acid.

Mike Hetzel
Waltham, MA

Oh, and in case anyone is still keeping track.. I fit the ethnic
homebrewer correlation very well. I'm half Polish, half American (part
English, German - see last name, etc). Big fan of big beers (esp
Imperial stouts and Baltic porters), tempered by appreciation for low
alcohol milds. I guess I just need a break every now and then.


		


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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:21:51 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: how to clean a SS mag drive pump

PAUL MANTOVANI asks how to clean a SS mag drive pump

"What would be a good procedure to clean the pump assembly thoroughly so I
wouldn't have to worry about what I'm adding to my beer?  Is there a good
chemical I can obtain that would remove any traces of whatever was
previously going through this thing?"

If you can be sure it wasn't used for something poisonous, re-circulating a
nice strong solution of hot sodium hydroxide will dissolve most things
organic...I don't know if it will remove mineral-based chemicals though, or
solvents.  If you don't know what it was used for, I'm not sure I'd use it
for food contact.  I have a similar pump from ebay that was used to pump
some sort of solvent, and while I've been tempted to use it for brewing, so
far it's been most useful to pump my chilled glycol.  Check to make sure the
pump is ok for caustic, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

Regards,
Mike Sharp


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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:02:17 -0700
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Regulator problem

Dear Friends,

I'm hoping someone with expertise in regulators can help me 
out.  Mine has begun misbehaving-- the valve stem is stuck, it 
will no longer turn in either direction, fixing my gas-out 
pressure at 20 psi.  I bought the regulator new from St Pats a 
couple years ago, and have been careful to blow each newly 
filled tank clear with a quick blast from the nozzle before re-
attaching the regulator after a fill.  It went very quickly from 
normal operation to feeling "seized up", in a couple of days, 
during which it became increasingly difficult to turn.  The stem 
has just a normal screw-top thingy on it, needing a 
screwdriver to turn it; no handle.

Can this thing be fixed?  If so how?

Thanks, 

Dave in ABQ
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico
David at Draper dot Name
Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html
Yeast are forgiving unless you really insult them.
    ---Dan McConnell






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