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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  storing homebrew/yeast sediment (Jeremy Cook)
  Rice starch to sugar (sake) (Jeremy Cook)
  sugar usage survey time!!! (rogerl)
  chilling for sedimentation (Algis R Korzonas +1 312 979 8583)
  Re: Homebrew Digest for January 11, 1989 (Martin Hall)
  yeast sediment/sugar survey/stout recipe (JBAUER)
  Sake Information (rdg)
  Cidery taste in beer (Andy Newman)

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Date: Thu, 12 Jan 89 10:56:06 +0100
From: Jeremy Cook <jeremy at kheops.cmi.no>
Subject: storing homebrew/yeast sediment

>> Recently I have been reading about using champagne bottles.  This would
>> seem to be a good compromise except pouring anything less than the whole
>> bottle would stir up the yeast at the bottom. 

>...I have started using a fairly simple method to reduce the sediment in
>the bottle...

Firstly, if you only want to pour half of a  large  bottle  at  a
time  then  get  hold of a large jug. I do this when we hold 'pub
nights' at our house to remind us of good old Blighty... Not  all
of  my  beer  glasses  take 0.5l so I pour 2 or 3 0.5l bottles of
homebrew at a time into a large beer jug.

A fellow brewer and I have discussed  the  problem  of  sediment,
here  are  some  conclusions:  Allowing the brew to settle before
bottling reduces the subsequent amount of sediment significantly.
I  ferment my brews in a large plastic bottle with a fermentation
lock and have had no contamination problems when I allow the brew
to stand for 2-3 weeks in a cool place after fermentation is com-
plete. Having a cool climate helps here and I  estimate  that  my
'cellar' is at 8-10 degrees for most of the year (ie perfect tem-
perature for British type ales). If you're afraid  of  contamina-
tion  at  this stage you could syphon it over into a sterile con-
tainer and seal (with a fermentation lock). It could, however, be
argued that doing this would actually increase the risk.

After 2-3 weeks the brew will be fairly  clear  and  you  can  go
ahead and bottle - there will still be enough yeast in suspension
to carry out secondary fermenation. With the bottles  in  a  warm
place,  secondary  fermentation  should  be complete after 1 or 2
days, infact mine are usually almost completely clear after  this
time.  Moving  back  to  a  cool  place finishes off the process.
There should only be a small amount of sediment deposited on  the
bottom  of  the glass. It seems to be better if you keep the bot-
tles as cool as possible (for as long as possible). The  sediment
that  does  remain  eventually forms fairly hard layer which will
hardly move when poured. We have even transported  homebrew  suc-
cessfully.  Any  disturbed  sediment  seems to disappear within a
very short time.

-- Jeremy Cook

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Date: Thu, 12 Jan 89 11:13:19 +0100
From: Jeremy Cook <jeremy at kheops.cmi.no>
Subject: Rice starch to sugar (sake)

All this talk of bacteria and fungi - it  is   an  enzyme  called
amylase  which  converts  starch  into suga,  salivary amylase is
released form one's salivary glands as  part  of  the   digestive
process. Amylase is available from most brew shops (usually  used
to remove a starch haze from wines). I don't know how much  you'd
need  and  for  how long with 2.5lb rice but it would probably be
fairly easy to experiment with a test batch of rice and a hydrom-
eter.

-- Jeremy Cook

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Date: Thu, 12 Jan 89 08:31:29 EST
From: rogerl at Think.COM
Subject: sugar usage survey time!!!

>OK, I've seen this statement so many times now, and I still have never
>heard of it actually happening. Has this ever happened to anybody? 
>...please speak now or forever hold your peace.

IF I do add sugar it is *ALWAYS* with the boil.  And have never had a
'cidery' taste problem.  As has been mentioned in other posting, I tend
toward all malt or use honey as another source fo fermentable sugar.
But the times I have used sugar I have had no problems.

On the other hand a friend who uses sugar in his brews use to add
sugar without boiling it and *DID* get the old 'cidery' flavor.  Since
then he has started boiling his sugar and the phenomenon has not
reappeared.

The only difference appears to be in the length of time needed for
conditioning.  This change in conditioning time might have been
related to the particular brew that was made, our scientific
procedures weren't impeccable.  But never the less, it seemed to us
that the brew took longer to condition properly.

That's what I've experienced.
Roger Locniskar

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Date: Thu, 12 Jan 89 10:12:33 MST
From: hpfcla!hpcea!hplabs!utah-cs!iwtsf!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 312 979 8583)
Subject: chilling for sedimentation
Full-Name: 

Rob recently suggested chilling the fermenter for 12-24 hours
before bottling to cause much of the yeast to sediment in
the fermenter instead of the bottles.  I have read about
this procedure before, but I still haven't tried it.  My
question to Rob, and to anyone else out there who has
tried something like this, is: does this procedure affect
carbonation?  Also, does this it change the way that the
beer conditions (taste, etc.)?  I know that only a very small
amount is needed, but I'd like to get as much info as I can
before I try it.
Al.

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Date: Thu, 12 Jan 89 08:58:08 PST
From: frame!sphinx!mxh at Sun.COM (Martin Hall)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest for January 11, 1989

I am interested in any discussion of non-alcoholic brew recipes.

                                ----Martin----

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Date: 12 Jan 89 13:36:46 EDT
From: JBAUER at BAT.Bates.EDU
Subject: yeast sediment/sugar survey/stout recipe

I have another fairly simple method to reduce the yeast buildup in your
bottles.  A chemist brewer friend of mine recommended this to me.  He
said that a couple days before you plan on bottling your batch remove a
couple cups of brew and heat, when warm add 1 tsp of unflavored gelatin
and disolve in the warm brew.  When disolved pour back into your
fermentator. This will produce a really clear batch as well as help
settle out the yeast before you bottle.  It also will help remove any
nasties suspended in the batch.  I do this on most all my batches and
have never had any troubles.

Also in reply to Rob's sugar survey. From time to time I will make a
"cheap" batch using corn sugar and one can of malt extract.  I put
the sugar right in to the fermentation bucket and have never had a
cidery batch.

Finally, I'm looking for a good stout recipe using malt extract. Any
one have a favorite they's like to share?

-- Jim

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Date: Thu, 12 Jan 89 16:06:31 MST
From: rdg at hpfcmi
Subject: Sake Information
Full-Name: 	Rob Gardner	

OK, I've got it. For an in-depth description of brewing Sake, you
should read the article "Sake--Japanese Rice Wine" by Fred Eckhardt,
which appears in "Best of Beer and Brewing, Volumes 1-5", ISBN
09-37381-05-5. It is available from the AHA for $15.95 and its catalog
number is #413. The AHA's order number is 303-447-0816.  It is also
available from Great Fermentations for $18.95 (800-544-1867).  The
book contains a bunch of other interesting articles by prominent
brewing authors.

The Sake article itself discusses Koji production, yeast starter,
fermentation, pressure & aging, history, recipes, equipment and
materials lists, serving tips, preparation of rice, yeast mash,
bottling & finishing, etc, etc. I repeat, the article is very
detailed, and even tells you where to get Koji if you can't find it
locally. After reading this article, I can't imagine anyone trying
to make sake with just the information that has appeared in the
homebrew digest.

I might be persuaded to violate copyright laws and xerox the article
if somebody asks me when I'm in a good mood :-)

Rob

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Date: Thu, 12 Jan 89 16:51 EST
From: Andy Newman <NEWMAN at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu>
Subject: Cidery taste in beer

In response to the query as to whether anyone ever experiences a 
cidery taste to their brew, I offer the following:

Almost all beer I've made that contained a substantial addition
of corn sugar (1 or more pounds per 5 gallon batch) came out of
the primary with a distinct cidery smell and taste.  Without fail,
the cidery taste dissipated quickly over a period of one week from
bottling.  By the time the beer was mature enough to drink, the
cidery taste seemed to have aged out.

I have never experienced ANY cidery phenomemon with beers made either
with mashed barley malt or canned extract alone.  Since I have 
extremely limited experience with other adjucts (rice, wheat, etc...)
I can't comment on their effects with regard to a cidery taste.

				-Andy

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