---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Homebrew Digest #469 (August 07, 1990) (Keith Morgan)
  Eckhart?, racking, overcarbonation (ROSS)
  clear glass, over-carbonation (mikec)
  Re: Racking Tube Horror Stories & Grolsch bottles for sale (Sheridan Adams)
  Bock Im Stein (Jason Goldman)
  New Brewery (Joe Uknalis)
  Brewer-cavers (Joe Uknalis)
  Re: Racking Tube Horror Stories (Chris Shenton)
  Re: Brewpubs in...St. Louis (blasphemy) (Chris Shenton)
  racking tube problems... (Jeffery R Blackman)
  various (Russ Gelinas)
  Siphon woes, Rosebud beer (cckweiss)
  Homebrew Digest #469 (August 07, 1990): Racking Tube Horror Stories (Wayne Allen)
  grains and advice on fruity flavors (BRWJ)
  Racking Tube Horror Stories
  grains, siphons, and ale yeast (mage!lou)
  Brewpub List (Steve Mosier)
  fruity flavor (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  The "w" word ("Philip Edward Cutone, III")
  special grains (florianb)
  poor racking tube (florianb)
  Racking tube woes (Mark E. Freeman)
  Too much foam in your glass -- a solution (Lynn Gold)
  Hot Fermentations and Racking Tube Madness... (mark gryska)
  Re: Bock im Stein (Clay Phipps)
  Re: off tastes from honey (Clay Phipps)
  Nasty Smelling Honey Lager ("Mike Schmidt")


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 08:20:03 edt
From: Keith Morgan <morgan at DG-RTP.DG.COM>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #469 (August 07, 1990)

> From: winter%cirrusl at oliveb.ATC.olivetti.com (Keith Winter)
> Subject: Over-carbonated :-(
> 
> OK, I'm trying to relax but it is getting harder to do.  My latest batch
> (Papazian's Palalia India Pale Ale) has come out over-carbonated.  I

I've had problems with overcarbonation every time I've used bulk
priming.  Seems to be a problem of nonuniform distribution of the
priming sugar solution - my last batch of Pale Ale ended up with about
1/3 of the bottles flatter than Twiggy's chest and 2/3 malty alka-seltzer
imitations.  I've always had better luck putting a half teaspoon or so
of corn sugar directly in each bottle.  You'd think that the risk of
infection would be high, but I've never had a problem with it.  I
guess there's little enough fermentation going on after the priming
sugar is added that off flavors/odors don't have much chance to develop.

Keith "lotsa li'l bubbles" Morgan

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 08:30 EDT
From: ROSS at mscf.med.upenn.edu
Subject: Eckhart?, racking, overcarbonation

Date sent:  7-AUG-1990 08:18:12 

Concerning Eckhart's book "The Essentials of Beer Styles"...  I ordered this
book from him at the American Brewers Information Services address in Oregon
two months ago and still haven't received the book or cancelled check.
Does anybody know a phone number where he can be reached?

IN REPLY TO THE QUESTION ABOUT LOSING THE SYPHON BETWEEN THE CURVED RACKING
TUBE AND THE REMAINDER OF THE TUBING...	  No, I've never had this problem.
Perhaps you could try getting more vertical distance between your syphoning
source and your receiving end.  By placing my carboy a considerable height
above my bottles, it greatly increases the flow rate so the different
diameters of the tubing doesn't become a critical factor.  See the discussion
about syphoning in the appendix in the Papizian book, it's pretty informative.

IN REPLY TO THE QUESTION ABOUT OVER/UNDERCARBONATION.  I've found that the
1/2 to 3/4 cup of priming sugar gives me good control of the carbonation level.
I have had problems like you described in my most current batch of Pale Ale.
I'm almost certain that it was caused by incomplete fermentation before
addition of priming sugar and bottling.  As I was specially brewing this
beer for an upcomming party, I had no choice but to bottle by a certain date.
I guess I could have been more scientific and compensated for the incomplete
fermentation by adding even less priming sugar.  Also, I put about 6 bottles
into the refrigerator two weeks after bottling.  They were great.  The 
remainders left at room temperature continued to ferment and they are
overcarbonated but once the gas (and head) subside, they taste great.

			--- Andy Ross ---

                    ross at mscf.med.upenn.edu

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 08:58:54 EDT
From: mikec at sun03.niehs.nih.gov
Subject: clear glass, over-carbonation

Hey homebrewers,

	I can start my day off right with a HBDigest again :-) It just wasn't the same w/o it.
	Anyway, last weekend I bought a bottle of Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout to try and was amazed that it was in a clear bottle! What about the bad effects of light on beer? It was quite good, but I'm curious why such a reputable brewery put their stuff in a clear bottle.

	Also, in Digest #469 Keith Winter remarked that he thought that a long aged beer, like a X-mas Ale, would be a prime candidate for over-carbonation because of its length in the bottle. Is this true? I was going to try one of those next. Cheers,

	Mike "just brewed his 2nd batch while finishing off the 1st" Carr

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 8:47:18 CDT
From: sja at gath.cray.com (Sheridan Adams)
Subject: Re: Racking Tube Horror Stories & Grolsch bottles for sale

> Subject: Racking Tube Horror Stories
> 
> (I'm gonna flame here)
> 	This really gets me pissed when the siphon stops and the
> remaining beer/wort in the tube *BUBBLES* back into the carboy!
> Of course I do this several times, AAAARGHHHHH!!!, before I give
> up and just use a plain hose.
> 

	Although I haven't tested it yet I may have a solution to this 
problem.  I purchased a tap for my primary fermenter.  What I plan to do
is use the two-stage method of brewing and when it come time to bottle,
transfer the beer to the primary fermenter and hook up the hose to the
tap.  This will allow any bubbles to clear out of the line.  I should
know whether it works in a week or so.

	If anyone is interested, I was in Semplex of USA the other day
and noticed that they are now selling Grolsch bottles for around $10 a
dozen.  I don't know if they sell them mail order yet, but if one is
interested it might be worth checking out.

- -- 


			Sheridan J. Adams
			sja at grog.cray.com
			(612) 683-3030

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 07:55:53 mdt
From: Jason Goldman <jdg at hp-lsd.cos.hp.com>
Subject: Bock Im Stein

Ah yes, Bock Im Stein.  Very good stuff.  Last summer I was browsing Niemann-Marcus in
Chicago and I saw that they were giving away samples of this in their gormet section.
It tasted wonderful, so I decided to buy a bottle.  I was pleasantly surprised when the
clerk asked if I wanted a bag or if I'd like to drink it while I shopped.  Of course,
I imagine that it makes some of their prices easier to handle ;-).

Jason
hp-lsd!jdg

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Date:         Tue, 07 Aug 90 09:53:08 EDT
From: Joe Uknalis <UKNALIS at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      New Brewery


If Monday's stock market plunge did'nt scare you away....

offering by prospectus only, this is not an advertisement etc...

Ralph Early, President
Little River Brewing Company
PO Box 657
Floyd, VA 24091

yea!

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Date:         Tue, 07 Aug 90 09:56:52 EDT
From: Joe Uknalis <UKNALIS at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Brewer-cavers


Hey-
Anyone out there a caver & coming to OTR??
Wanna swap brew stories & suds?
If there's mud in your blood (but not your brew)
send a note & we'll see what we can do!

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 10:35:06 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Racking Tube Horror Stories

semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET writes:
> I've been having troubles using
> one of those rigid type racking tubes.  The problem is a loss of
> pressure/suction where the rigid racking tube connect with my racking 
> hose.  The difference in between the inside diameter (ID) of the
> rigid tube and the ID of the hose creates an open air gap.  This
> gap causes the suction to slow and eventually the siphon fails. 

I get the same thing. I just thwack at the joint with my finger (kind of
like snapping your finger) a couple times and it usually dislodges the air
bubble. It doesn't come back.

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 10:42:15 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Brewpubs in...St. Louis (blasphemy)

"Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503  02-Aug-1990 0753" writes:
> Looking through the brewpub list, I find none in St. Louis.  Are there any,
> or have the big-brew interests kept them out?

Write/call the AHA. They have a list of brewpubs and micro brewers. I've
found it very helpful when I've travelled, although there are no
evaluations.

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 8:32:03 PDT
From: Jeffery R Blackman <blackman at hpihouz.cup.hp.com>
Subject: racking tube problems...
Full-Name: Jeffery R Blackman

Bob Gorman writes:

> Date: Fri Jul 27 15:47:53 1990
> From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
> Subject: Racking Tube Horror Stories

> On a different subject: I've been having troubles using
> one of those rigid type racking tubes.  The problem is a loss of
> pressure/suction where the rigid racking tube connect with my racking 
> hose.  The difference in between the inside diameter (ID) of the
> rigid tube and the ID of the hose creates an open air gap.  This
> gap causes the suction to slow and eventually the siphon fails.  I've
> tried putting a hose clamp at the connection, thinking there was an
> air leak there, but that was not it.
	
> Any suggestions? Please!

If you don't mind a permanent solution, takes some 5 minute epoxy and seal
the rigid racking tube to the racking hose.  This easily makes an air-tight
seal.

Jeff

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Date:     Tue, 7 Aug 90 11:48 EST
From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (Russ Gelinas)
Subject:  various

Thanks to all for the responses to my concern re. a batch of beer with
2 lbs. of honey in it.  In the last week the brew went from "Ehhh" to
"Ahhh". It changed very quickly, and I think it will still get better.

My description of the immature brew as "homebrew-like" (or something
like that) got some negative response.  IN NO WAY did I mean that
homebrew doesn't exceed the big guys' swill in every possible comparison.
What I meant was that the brew tasted like poorly made homebrew. I think
we can agree that poorly made homebrew has a unique flavor to it.
I have had the misfortune to taste as much bad homebrew as good, so I
guess "homebrew" sometimes still has a negative connotation to me. But in
the future, I'll make it point to be more descriptive.

Ok, finally, there's New Hampshire liquor stores selling speciality beer.
I think the reason they do that is because of the high alcohol content of
the beer, making it hard to categorize (barley wine? malt liquor?). Since
I live in NH, I'll gladly volunteer to sample all the varieties and post
a description. Please send donations to the address below *:-)

RussG.

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 09:22:51 -0700
From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu
Subject: Siphon woes, Rosebud beer

 
At last, a problem I can address!
 
Bob Gorman writes that he has a problem with air lodging in his siphon
hose, where the flexible tube meets the rigid racking tube. IUve found
two ways to deal with this.
 
1) Start with your hose filled with water. If you're racking from primary to
secondary, just add the small amount of water to the brew, it won't matter.
If you're bottling, let the first pint or so of water/wort mixture go into a 
waste bucket, to avoid getting some watered down beers.
 
2) If you still get an air bubble in the hose, try pinching the hose firmly
just above the bubble. That always sends the air on down the line for
me.
 
Now for my question to the group. I just started using Wyeast cultures.
I've noticed that I'm getting little flakes of material up near the surface 
of the beer in the bottle. The slightest movement will send these little
gomers drifting down to the bottom of the bottle, looking for all the world
like one of those snowstorm paperweights. The yeast in question is
the Irish Ale. Comments/explanations/reassurances/loud exclamations
of dismay at my obviously unsanitary brewing conditions are invited. I'm 
hoping some experienced brewer will say "It's a top fermenting yeast, 
you idiot, and that's yeast at the top of your beer!"
 
Ken Weiss
cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 11:37:27 CDT
From: wa%cadillac.cad.mcc.com at MCC.COM (Wayne Allen)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #469 (August 07, 1990): Racking Tube Horror Stories


>	On a different subject: I've been having troubles using
>one of those rigid type racking tubes.  The problem is a loss of
>pressure/suction where the rigid racking tube connect with my racking
>hose.  The difference in between the inside diameter (ID) of the
>rigid tube and the ID of the hose creates an open air gap.  This
>gap causes the suction to slow and eventually the siphon fails.  I've
>tried putting a hose clamp at the connection, thinking there was an

Yes, I had this happen last week with a new hose I'd bought. I've used
a racking tube forever, but all my previous hoses where the same
approximate I.D. as the tube. I managed to finish racking becuase I
use one of those two-hole carboy caps; the racking tube comes out of
one, and a tube connected to a hand pump (like for air mattresses)
goes in the other. This allows me to start the siphon by pressure
without touching the hose. I can literally just pump the stuff out if
need be, although you really want a pure siphon to avoid oxidation.

The only solution is to get a smaller hose or larger tube.
 _
 W	| Wayne Allen, wa at mcc.com uunet!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cadillac!wa
	| MCC/CAD, 3500 West Balcones Center Dr, Austin, Tx 78759 (512)338-3754
 

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 12:57 EST
From: BRWJ%VAX5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: grains and advice on fruity flavors


"...Ralph... ralph at iies.ecn.purdue.edu" asks about how to use
specialty grains in extract beers.  I have used Papazian's method of
adding ALL specialty grains to 1 and 1/2 gallons COLD water and
removing them with a strainer when the mixture begins to boil.  My
understanding of boiling grains is that it adds a "grainy" or "husky"
flavor to the beer -- generally considered negative.  One comment on
your first method, in which grains are mashed by simple infusion.
Don't worry about the temperature -- crystal malt and many other
specialty grains contain no enzymes nor convertable sugars (in fact in
crystal malt the starches have already been converted to dextrins and
other such unfermentable sugars and caramelized).  The mashing (or
steeping) just extracts these goodies from the grain.  Good luck!
You'll notice a marked improvement in your beer!

Bob Gorman noticed a fruity flavor in his "hot ferment" (aver. 73
degrees).  It's my understanding that hotter fermentation results in
more byproducts (other than alcohol and carbon dioxide), in particular
esters which contribute a "fruity" flavor.  It also could be due to
your yeast strain (???), some of which are noted for their fruitiness.
I think Red Star ale was famous for banana flavors.  I used Edme ale
yeast for many years and always noticed strong fruit flavors, which
dissipated after a couple weeks in the bottle.  Some people consider
these "off flavors", but such flavors also characterize some awfully
good English ales.

As to Bob's rack tube problems, why not just get the next size down
in racking hoses (you can by them at many hardware stores)?

Just in passing, Real Ale is alive and well in England.  During three
weeks there I sampled many. My favorites:  Adnam's (Bitter or "Old
Broadside"), Greene King's Abbot Ale, and Fuller's ESB.  Yum.  The
saddest sight:  Young Brits drinking lager almost exclusively, even
Budweiser longnecks.  WAKE-UP!

Jackie Brown (Brwj at crnlvax5.bitnet)

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 12:19:54 -0400
From: actnyc!jeff at uunet.UU.NET (Jeffrey Poretsky)

> Subject: Bock im Stein
> 
>      It's worth a try, of course, that's what beer drinkers do! 
> I really like the bottle.  I have never seen it before, and
> may never again, but I thought I would relate this to you all.
> 
>      Oh yes, It's imported by: Consolidated Distilled Products,
> Inc. of Chicago.
> 
> - -- Cheers!
> 
> - -- Bob Gorman               Relational Semantics, Inc.  Watertown MA US --

Bob, (and others)

	I agree with you on the uniqueness of the beer and bottle.  For those
of you on the east coast there is a place to drink this beer, in addition
to about two hundred more.

In the Village, NYC, there is a bar called Peculiar Pub.  There they have a
MENU of beers, ranging from american malt pops to dopple-bocks, animators, 
and almost any other sort of brewed beverage you can think of.  There is also,
in the same general area, (15 minute walk), a bar called Brewskies.
This is where the local brewers guild meets.

An offical invite:  Anyone who visits the area and wants to visit these 
establishments, email to me that info, and I will personally take you to 
them.

 Jeff Poretsky              uunet!actnyc!jeff      jeff at actnyc.UUCP

standard disclaimers apply.  +1 212 696 3747

"THINK.  
    If you are already thinking, please disregard this message."

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 10:09:53 PDT
From: dreger at seismo.gps.caltech.edu




Subject: Racking Tube Horror Stories
>On a different subject: I've been having troubles using
>one of those rigid type racking tubes.  The problem is a loss of
>pressure/suction where the rigid racking tube connect with my racking 
>hose.  The difference in between the inside diameter (ID) of the
>rigid tube and the ID of the hose creates an open air gap.  This
>gap causes the suction to slow and eventually the siphon fails.  I've
>tried putting a hose clamp at the connection, thinking there was an
>air leak there, but that was not it.

I've also had this problem.  A simple remedy is to pinch the soft tube
just after the connection with the rigid tube.  Let go after a few
seconds and the trapped air bubble disappears down the tube.

Doug D.

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 11:28:56 MDT
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: grains, siphons, and ale yeast

In HBD #469 Ralph McCallister writes:

>On one side the preperation states that the crystal malt, in this case about
>1 pound, should be mashed using a simple infusion method and then
>sparged before beginning the boil.  The remaining grains are added half
>way through the cooking time and then the wort is sparged and added with
>the rest of the water.

According CP, crystal and the other specialty grains you mentioned have no
enzymes and thus trying to mash them will not have the sort of results you
expect from mashing. (TCJoHB p.56)

>The second method requires that all the grains should first be boiled 
>together for about 1 to 4 minutes.  As much of the grain as possible 
>should then be removed , continue with the wort preperation and sparged 
>before adding this with the remaining water.

Everything I've read says that boiling your grains will release tannins which
will give an undesirable astringency to your beer.  The method that works well
for me is to boil some water (not in your brewpot), kill the heat and add all
of the speciality grains (crystal, chocolate, black); cover this and steep like
tea for about 20 minutes.  Pour this concoction through a stainer into your
brewpot and sparge.  I find this much easier than trying to fish the grains out
of the brewpot and then sparging the grains.

============
Bob Gorman writes:

>	On a different subject: I've been having troubles using
>one of those rigid type racking tubes.  The problem is a loss of
>pressure/suction where the rigid racking tube connect with my racking 
>hose.  The difference in between the inside diameter (ID) of the
>rigid tube and the ID of the hose creates an open air gap.  This
>gap causes the suction to slow and eventually the siphon fails.  I've
>tried putting a hose clamp at the connection, thinking there was an
>air leak there, but that was not it.

This problem is easy to fix.  Buy a slightly smaller ID hose (i.e. 1/16 inch
smaller).  It will take a little work to get it on over the hard plastic of the
racking tube but you will be certain of a good seal there.  Don't expect to be
able to get it off afterwards.  You will, of course, be concerned about the
possibility of wort building up around there and making a breeding ground for
infections but, don't worry.  Just be sure you rinse it well after use and
sanitize it well and it will work fine.  My hose has been permanently attached
to my racking tube for over a year and 30 batches of brew and I've never had an
infection.
	
>(I'm gonna flame here)
>	This really gets me pissed when the siphon stops and the
>remaining beer/wort in the tube *BUBBLES* back into the carboy!
>Of course I do this several times, AAAARGHHHHH!!!, before I give
>up and just use a plain hose.

I had a similar problem with my first racking tube.  It took me a long time and
much experimentation before I found the real problem and got it fixed.  In my
case, the bubbles were not air but carbon dioxide.

Normally, it should take 5-10 minutes to siphon a carboy.  I was getting times
like 45 minutes before the bubbles caused me to lose the siphon.  I eventually
traced the problem to the orange thingamabob at the bottom of the tube that
raises the opening of the tube above the sediment.  The orange thingy is
supposed to have two little stubs that keep it away from the opening of the
white plastic and allow an adequate flow into the white plastic tube.  These
stubs were broken off so that the orange dingus was pressed directly against
the bottom of the white tube and severely restricting the flow into the tube.

The agitation of siphoning will normally cause some carbon dioxide to come out
of solution.  With a healthy flow rate the CO2 is swept along with the liquid
and is quickly removed from the hose; the result being that you never notice
that it has happened.  With the low flow rate I was getting, the CO2 had the
opportunity to form larger bubbles that collected at the top of the siphon,
eventually reaching the point where they were visible where the white plastic
joined the hose.  Getting a new orange piece solved the problem completely.

In short, look for anything that might be restricting flow through your siphon.
I have experienced this problem since when I've had fruit in the beer or mead
that clogged the siphon and restricted the flow.

==========
Ivan Yanasak writes:

>I'm going for batch #2 this Friday (the Spruce Ale from CJoHB), and need
>recommendations for ale yeast.  What are good dry yeasts?   Are the
>liquid cultures worth the extra $? (The local store has Wyeast).

Liquid cultures are highly touted but I've never been particularly impressed;
but, then I've never tried a liquid ale yeast.  My preferred ale yeast is
Leigh-Williams and Sons Beer and Stout yeast.  It comes in a plastic bottle and
contains enough yeast for 8 batches (the label recommends only 3 batches but
that should be ignored).

Finally,
Louis Clark
mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 13:39 EDT
From: Steve Mosier <MOSIER%UNCG.BITNET at ncsuvm.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Brewpub List

Gary Mason wrote:

> Looking through the brewpub list, I find none in St. Louis.  Are there any, or

> have the big-brew interests kept them out?

Is there a brewpub list?  How do I get it?

BTW, there is a brewpub in Greensboro (NC) now:  Vickers.  I just saw a story
about it yesterday in the Greensboro News and Record.  The story cites 4 brews:
Gate City Ale, Loggerhead Pilsner, General Greene Lager (a dark beer), and
Loggerhead Light (ugh).  They are experimenting with a Cherry Beer.  As soon
as I get out there, I'll comment on them.

 -=steve=-



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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 12:15:31 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: fruity flavor

Bob Gorman writes:
>	If anybody cares my Hot Ferment went well.  The average temp
>of my wort was 73 degrees (The temperature of my bath room floor).
>It finished it's primary ferment in 1 1/2 days.

>	When I racked it I noticed a fruity flavor.  I think that
>this may be from the Alexanders Malt Extract, I've never used it before.

The fruity flavor is characteristic of ales (it's the main flavor difference
between lagers and ales) and is caused by esters that are produced by the
yeast when it ferments at higher temperatures.  Different strains of yeast
produce varying amounts and types of esters.  Although I have never tried
it, I understand that Red Star dry ale yeast has a tendency to produce
"banana esters."  Other esters can give your beer strawberry-like flavors.
Banana and strawberry are the only two _identifiable_ fruit flavors that I
have heard brewers report, although there are others that escape classification.

In My Humble Opinion, it was your 73 degree ferment that gave you the
fruity flavor and not the Alexanders.

Al.


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Date: Tue,  7 Aug 90 14:46:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Philip Edward Cutone, III" <pc2d+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: The "w" word

I may be lenched for posting this request here, but I am looking for a good wine mix, and instructions for the fermentation of said mix.  I am hoping to have itdone for the new year.  As an added kick, I have had no fermentation experience, (except growing yeast in a supersaturated sugar solution for my brine shrimp,
don't ask.  BTW it tasted awful, but had a stong kick!)  Anyway, if I cannot getthe info here, could I be redirected to someplace I might?

Help would be appreciated!

me

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Date: 07 Aug 90 12:33:09 PDT (Tue)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: special grains

Ralph L McCallister asks about when and how to add special grains:

>On one side the preperation states that the crystal malt, in this case about
>1 pound, should be mashed using a simple infusion method and then
>sparged before beginning the boil.  The remaining grains are added half
>way through the cooking time and then the wort is sparged and added with
>the rest of the water.
>
>The second method requires that all the grains should first be boiled
>together for about 1 to 4 minutes.  As much of the grain as possible
>should then be removed , continue with the wort preperation and sparged
>before adding this with the remaining water.

If you choose to mash the special grains separately, you will need to mash
them with malted barley to provide enzymes.  However, to mash the special
grains implies that there is starch to convert.  There are small amounts
of starch in crystal and other high-kilned malted barley, but the sugars
added by mashing them (in addition to the sugars already present in the
special grains, as is) should be insignificant to the total amount of 
fermentables in the entire boil.

The usual reason for mashing the crystal, etc. along with pale
malted barley is that it provides a long period of time at elevated 
temperature during which the "goodness" of the special grains comes out
into the solution.

This being the case, it is acceptable to simply crush the special grains,
place them in a grain bag, and dunk it into the kettle at the beginning of
the heating phase.  Slosh the bag around during warmup, and as soon as the
wort begins to boil, squeeze out the bag with tongs, and remove it before
full rolling boil commences.

Ralph further mentions that he intends to do stouts with full extract.
I might add that to obtain full benefit from the roasted barley (and
other high-kilned barleys) and to make a reproducible beer, that it is good
to go to a full or partial mash.  In that case, at least half of the 
fermentables should come from pale malted barley.

Florian


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Date: 07 Aug 90 12:37:57 PDT (Tue)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: poor racking tube

Bob Gorman complains about his racking tube:

	On a different subject: I've been having troubles using
	one of those rigid type racking tubes.  The problem is a loss of
	pressure/suction where the rigid racking tube connect with my racking
	hoze...

I suggest going to a hardware store and purchasing some clear plastic
food-grade tubing that will in fact fit your hard plastic racking tube.
I get mine from a local sports/automotive shop and replace the tubing
about every 3-4 months or when it gets cloudy.

Florian


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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 13:07:53 PDT
From: freeman at idaho.Inference.Com (Mark E. Freeman)
Subject: Racking tube woes

  Date: Fri Jul 27 15:47:53 1990
  From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
  Subject: Racking Tube Horror Stories

  Hi Y'all,

	 On a different subject: I've been having troubles using
  one of those rigid type racking tubes.  The problem is a loss of
  pressure/suction where the rigid racking tube connect with my racking 
  hose.  The difference in between the inside diameter (ID) of the
  rigid tube and the ID of the hose creates an open air gap.  This
  gap causes the suction to slow and eventually the siphon fails.  I've
  tried putting a hose clamp at the connection, thinking there was an
  air leak there, but that was not it.

Indeed, this was a great cause of anguish to me during
my initial batches.  Fortunately, my housemate came to my
assistance; we obtained some hosing whose inner diameter was 
equivalent to that of the racking tube.  The hose does stretch
enough to fit around the outside of the tube, and the smaller
diameter also has the added advantage of creating a tighter
seal at the junction.  Now it works fine.  (and she can say 
"I told ya so" :-)


- -- Mark Freeman
   freeman at inference.com

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 14:51:14 PDT
From: figmo at mica.berkeley.edu (Lynn Gold)
Subject: Too much foam in your glass -- a solution

I suspect your problem might be your pouring technique rather than the
beer itself.

Try this:  tip the glass on its side and GENTLY pour the beer into
it.  I've found this technique cuts the amount of foam in my glass
regardless of what beer I'm drinking.

- --Lynn
Brewer of "Fuzzbrau -- A Great Beer Named After a Great Dog"

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 18:25:52 EDT
From: mark at zippy.cs.umass.edu (mark gryska)
Subject: Hot Fermentations and Racking Tube Madness...


    In HOMEBREW Digest #469 Bob Gorman writes about high fermentation
  temperatures, Alexanders Malt Extract and a fruity flavor. I use
  Alexanders for the majority of my brewing and I am very satisfied
  with the results. Fruity flavors are created by your yeast with
  fermentation temperature affecting the amount of "fruitiness" that
  will be produced.  A high fermentation temperature will result in a
  greater production of esters and aldehydes which are responsible for
  the "fruitiness". Note that this "fruitiness" is characteristic of a
  Trappist Ale. I know one brewer who cultures the yeast from Chimay
  and ferments it in the low 70's, the beer turns out to be very good.
  The point is that "fruitiness" can be good or bad depending on the
  style of beer you are trying to make.  If you don't like this
  character then you can use a different yeast strain and/or lower
  fermentation temperatures.
    
    Now, about racking tubes. I think that they are a great invention.
  Here are a couple of hints that will make siphoning an easier task.
  I always fill my tubing and racking tube with hot water from the tap
  after sanitization / rinsing. I have a clamp on the outlet side that
  I close and then carefully lower the tube into the beer to be
  racked.  I put a jar on the floor and release the clamp to allow the
  water to run out which is replaced by the beer. I close the clamp and
  then rack into another carboy, my hydrometer test jar or both.
  Bubbles may form in the tubing because the agitation of the beer will
  release the CO2 that has been created during fermentation. You can do
  a couple things.  Pinch the tubing right above the bubble, this
  should cause the bubbles to migrate down the tubing. Make the
  difference in height between the two carboys greater, this will
  increase the speed at which the liquid flows and prevent bubbles from
  forming. If you loose your siphon don't panic, repeat the process...

				- mg

  gryska at cs.umass.edu
  mark at zippy.cs.umass.edu

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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 11:25:00 -0700
From: hplabs!garth!phipps (Clay Phipps)
Subject: Re: Bock im Stein

In HOMEBREW Digest #469: Tue 07 August 1990,
semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET (Bob Gorman) wrote on Sun Jul 29 16:25:01 1990:
>
>It was a clay bottle with a resealable top, like on Grolsch bottles.  
>Upon a second glance the word BOCK stuck out.  [...]
>The beer is 'Fiedlers Bock im Stein'.  A German Beer.  
>The label also says 'Bockbier im echten Steinkrug'.
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Bock beer in the genuine stone[-ware] jug".

>The bottle came capped with a standard bottle cap, 
>and the resealable cap was hanging on the side.  
>The bottle is made of clay and is glazed brown.   
>It has a four inch diameter and stands about eight inches high.

,,Krug`` also means "mug" or "tankard", thus ,,Bierkrug``: "beer-mug",
but in the context given by your description, "jug" is the best choice.

>This is a hefty bottle!  It was definitely made to be reused, 
>sort of novelty marketing, like Grolsch bottles.
         ^^^^^^^
I'd bet that it's the literal opposite; it's probably the *traditional*
kind of vessel that was displaced when glass became inexpensive, hence
widely used, a century-or-so ago.  That change is credited to some degree
with enhancing the popularity of lagers versus traditional ales/,,Altbiere``.
Perhaps our cullinary historian: Cher Feinstein, can provide more details 
on the history of beer vessels.  

In times when the fabrication of containers was nontrivial--regardless
of precisely when that changed--the only sensible thing to do was
to fabricate containers that could tolerate the abuse of repeated use.
I'm certain that the modern custom of discarding containers after a single 
use would be alien to all but the exceptionally wealthy of their times.

[The foregoing may or may not represent the position, if any, of my employer, ]
[ who is identified solely to allow the reader to account for personal biases.]
                                              
Clay Phipps                                
Intergraph APD, 2400#4 Geng Road, Palo Alto, CA 94303              415/852-2327
UseNet (Intergraph internal): ingr!apd!phipps
UseNet (external): {apple,pyramid,sri-unix}!garth!phipps        EcoNet: cphipps
[^^^^^ Our regular delay in receipt of net-news is still 2 *weeks* !$%# at *&^!!!]


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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 11:45:49 -0700
From: hplabs!garth!phipps (Clay Phipps)
Subject: Re: off tastes from honey

A clarification of the submission identified below follows:

In HOMEBREW Digest #469, Tue 07 August 1990
hplabs!garth!phipps (Clay Phipps) wrote on Fri, 27 Jul 90 19:55:49 -0700:
>
>In HOMEBREW Digest #467 (Wed 25 July 1990), 
>hplabs!mage!lou (Louis Clark) wrote:
>>
>>[In HOMEBREW Digest #465, RussG wrote:
>>>
>>>I've also got a brown ale of sorts that has been bottle for 10 days or so, 
>>>and it is not clearing at all (unlike all my other batches). 
>>>I[t] also [tastes] sour, bitter, off, but not particularly bad []. 
>>>It is my first batch using honey (2 lbs. of bargain stuff). 
>
>My only batch using more than a pound of honey
>also had a sharp, almost lemony sourness to it [...].
>
>>>Is the honey responsible? 
>
>[Yes.] The sourness disappeared completely after a few months.
>
>>>Is is the dreaded "I" word?  
>
>[No.]  A very experienced homebrewer, beer judge, 
>and former local brew-pub brewmaster concurred.  
 ^^^
The multiple noun phrases all identify a total of one guy.

>He didn't taste it until it had been in the bottle for 8 months!
                 ^^
Here "it" refers to the brew itself, NOT the "sourness" mentioned above.
The expert witness did not taste any evidence of infection at all, and
he described it as "very clean"--8 months after bottling.

Geez, it's aggravating to me to stumble over ambiguity in words that 
I originally though had expressed my thoughts carefully !
I blame some of the ambiguity on the ambiguous use of commas and conjunctions
(e.g.: "and") in English, but the remainder of the fault is mine.

[The foregoing may or may not represent the position, if any, of my employer, ]
[ who is identified solely to allow the reader to account for personal biases,]
[ and who really shouldn't care anyhow,  considering that this is lunch-time !]
                                              
Clay Phipps                                
Intergraph APD, 2400#4 Geng Road, Palo Alto, CA 94303              415/852-2327
UseNet (Intergraph internal): ingr!apd!phipps
UseNet (external): {apple,pyramid,sri-unix}!garth!phipps        EcoNet: cphipps


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Date: Tue,  7 Aug 90 21:05:44 PDT
From: "Mike Schmidt" <schmidt at aec830.mdcbbs.com>
Subject: Nasty Smelling Honey Lager

I came very close to dumping out 5 gallons of 3-day-old Rocky Raccoon's Crystal
Honey Lager, due to the putrid smell that wafted through our home.  My wife
almost nixed by upcoming keg purchase after entering our foul smelling brew
cellar (a.k.a. The basement).

However, much to my surprise it tastes good -- very good!.  Thanks Johnny
for convincing me *NOT* to pour the wort down the drain.  I used 4 lbs of
Alexander's Pale Malt Extract and 2 1/2 lbs of Light Honey.  The honey,
which I would assume is good quality stuff, came from my bee-keeper buddy.  I
used Red Star dry lager yeast and 2 oz. of Cascade stemmed loose hops.  My first
suspicion was that the Red Star yeast was contaminated, however the putrid smell
appears to be the result of fermenting honey.  This was the first time I had
used honey in the brew pot.  The smell is now just slightly noticeable.  This
batch is very immature so I will be sure to update you all if/when appropriate.


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #470, 08/08/90
*************************************
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