---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  We're Back!! (Rob Gardner	)
  Pruning Hops (ROSS)
  low temperature treatment of ales (Marty Albini)
  Mac Index (bowler)
  When do you add grains? (Ralph L McCallister)
  'Ganset Porter, Green Death (RUSSG)
  Re:  Juniper Ale? (John DeCarlo)
  New Microbrewery (Joe Uknalis)
  Cooling the Wort (John DeCarlo )
  various items (Tom Nolan)
  Hot Ferment (bob)
  Racking Tube Horror Stories (bob)
  Re: off tastes from honey (Clay Phipps)
  Bock im Stein (bob)
  Over-carbonated :-( (Keith Winter)
  Ale yeast: brand suggestions? (Yanasak, Ivan R.)
  Homebrew clubs (Rob McDonald)
  Brewpubs in...St. Louis (blasphemy) ("Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503  02-Aug-1990 0753")
  Wine and Brew By You Open House (a.e.mossberg)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 90 23:01:47 MDT
From: Rob Gardner <rdg>
Subject: We're Back!!
Full-Name: 	Rob Gardner


Hi everyone, sorry for the disturbance. It seems that while I was
out of town eating fine food, uh, I mean, on a business trip, 
somebody decided to borrow my cpu, hence the disappearance of the
Homebrew Digest from the face of the earth for the last week or so.

Those of you who sent me distress messages, please relax, and please
understand that there is no way I can personally reply to all your
mail. (In case anyone is interested, there are currently over 700
subscribers!)

Your humble behind-the-scenes helper,
Rob

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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 90 08:26 EDT
From: ROSS at mscf.med.upenn.edu
Subject: Pruning Hops

Date sent:  26-JUL-1990 08:17:07 

	This is my first season of growing my own hops.  My original plants
(from rhizomes) are doing very well and have loads of hops that look like
they will be ready for harvesting shortly.  I'm also getting lots of new
growth from the bottom portion of the plant.
	I read in a hop growing book that you can allow two or three of these
new plants to grow in order to have additional harvests.  The other new
growth should be pruned off so as not to create overcrowding and draw nutrients
away from the hop producing plants.

	My question:  Once I have harvested the hops from the original
plant, should this long vine be cut down just above the point where it
has sent out the additional growth?

			--- Andy Ross ---
                    University of Pennsylvania
		 Medical School Computer Facility

                    ross at mscf.med.upenn.edu

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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 90 7:40:14 PDT
From: Marty Albini <martya at hpsdl39.sdd.hp.com>
Subject: low temperature treatment of ales

> holos0!lbr at gatech.edu (Len Reed) writes:
> 
> J.L. Palladino, Trinity College" <PALLADIN at vax1.trincoll.edu> writes:
> >Has anyone tried chilling an ale down to 55 deg F while it was
> >in secondary (glass) in order to get suspended yeast to settle faster?
> >It seems to be working but I'm *concerned* (not worried) that when I 
> >bottle at room temp the yeast will not reactivate and carbonate, leaving
> >flat beer.  Any suggestions?  
> 
> No problem.  Even dropping the temperature into the low forties won't kill
> the yeast; they will go dormant (or nearly so) at lower temperatures.  Enough
> yeast will remain in suspension for bottle priming even if the beer
> is perfectly clear.

	This depends on the yeast. I know of an excellent
brewer at a microbrewery who regularly ferments his ales in
the low fifties (F) with his yeast, but I've had Edme shut
down, never to rise again, if the temperature drops below 70F. 
It's not just me, either, as several people have reported this.

	It might come back in the bottle for priming, but
don't expect it to work real fast. What the heck, try it.
Siphon off a gallon, chill, prime, and bottle. Compare
side-by-side with the remainder. I learn something with every
batch, but this way you could say it was science!
- --
________________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"Hot damn, science wins one again!"
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya at sdd.hp.com 
CSNET    : martya%hp-sdd at hplabs.csnet
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 90 11:51:56 EDT
From: bowler at ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Mac Index


It seems as though Jeff Benson has created an index for TCJoHB in
Microsoft Word 4.0 format.  My congradulations to him as the Mac can
create some truly lovely output.  

Since I am have already created the same thing in a parallel universe
there is no need to offer my Word 4.0 index again.  But I have created a
Post Script version of this index that should print in a UNIX
environment.  This is the same thing.  A index that will fit in the back
of the book made to look like it belongs there.  Just print it double
sided and cut off the extra bits and you are all set.

If anyone is interested just forward a request to me and I will gladly
send along a copy of the index.

albert smith

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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 90 11:58:22 -0500
From: ralph at iies.ecn.purdue.edu (Ralph L McCallister)
Subject: When do you add grains?

I have been brewing for about six months with malt extracts and I want to
start experimenting with small amounts of grains. After reading
several sources on this matter and through many recipes I find a
point of departure on the technique of adding crystal malt, black
patent, and roasted barley.  One question concerns the preperation of
the crystal malt and the other is in reference to the timing of adding
these grains to the boil.

On one side the preperation states that the crystal malt, in this case about
1 pound, should be mashed using a simple infusion method and then
sparged before beginning the boil.  The remaining grains are added half
way through the cooking time and then the wort is sparged and added with
the rest of the water.

The second method requires that all the grains should first be boiled 
together for about 1 to 4 minutes.  As much of the grain as possible 
should then be removed , continue with the wort preperation and sparged 
before adding this with the remaining water.

As I will most likley try both methods at some point in time, I would
still like to have some opinions as it seems to me that the difference 
in these methods will produce very different tasting beers and in my case 
stouts which will be my next batch.

	...Ralph... ralph at iies.ecn.purdue.edu

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Date:     Thu, 26 Jul 90 15:45 EST
From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (RUSSG)
Subject:  'Ganset Porter, Green Death

Ahhh 'Ganset Porter, $0.25/bottle, if you spilled it it would leave an
indelible stain on the wooden floor, no matter how quickly you cleaned it
up.  It was my sustenance in college (along with espresso, but's that
another story). I haven't had it since. Do they still make it?

And Hefenreffer, the Green Death, a summer softball staple. A couple (or
more) of those into a dehyrated body....whew...As the puzzles on the caps
get easier, walking gets harder.

And a little story: My brother showed up as I was brewing a batch of brown
ale. His response to the sight and smell of the boiling wort had something
to do with sewerage treatment. So I gave him one of my wheat beers, and he
loved it.  Then he said the wort wasn't really that bad, and started asking
about brewing time,money,ingredients,etc.  Now that's a good feeling *:-)

RussG.

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Date: Friday, 27 Jul 1990 08:01:22 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Juniper Ale?

>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 13:12:27 PDT
>From: John S. Watson - FSC <watson at pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
> ...
>(Could it be he's confusing ale and some other drink of yore
>(gin)?, or maybe he's confusing juniper and spruce? )

Sorry I can't give first-hand experience, but I can add one small
snippet of information.  Reading Michael Jackson's
_New_World_Guide_To_Beer_ on beers of Sweden (my wife has
relatives there and we expect to visit), I found that one native
Swedish beer is a Juniper Ale.  So there are commercial examples
somewhere in the world.  The Till brewery makes it, and it is
called Spetsat.

John "No, there were no hints about how it was made" DeCarlo

ARPANET:  M14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm at mitre.arpa)
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 90 14:38:59 EDT
From: Joe Uknalis <UKNALIS at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      New Microbrewery


There's a new microbrewery in VA starting up.
It's called the Little River Brewing Co, Floyd VA.
They're selling stock to get the thing running.
They're planning an amber ale, in 600 gallon batches.
If anyone is interested e-mail me and I'll give more info.

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Date: Friday, 27 Jul 1990 16:35:56 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo )
Subject: Cooling the Wort

I made a batch of beer the other day and was going to put some "clean"
cold water and ice in with the wort to make 5 gallons, when I found that
the ice pieces wouldn't fit into the neck of my new glass carboy.

So, I found another use for the ice.  I put it in my funnel-strainer
and poured the hot wort through a bed of ice and hops, essentially.
The result was a cooled wort much faster than I have ever had before,
allowing me to pitch the yeast within minutes.

John "Is there something wrong with this approach?" DeCarlo

P.S.  I covered the ice containers to avoid freezer contamination.

ARPANET:  M14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm at mitre.arpa)
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Fri, 27 Jul 90 17:01 EDT
From: "As I mentioned next week in my talk on reversible time..."


Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 10:37:06 EDT
From: nolan at lheavx.DNET.NASA.GOV (Tom Nolan)
Subject: various items

>To Captain Kirk, who wants to know about left-handed potato peelers:
>Most peelers I have seen are double-edged, so they go both ways! I know a
>guy who says his mom (left-handed) always exchanged peelers with her
>neighbor (right-handed) after six months. Then they'd buy two new ones
>and repeat the process.

Neat idea! But I can never find one of those doggone lefty peelers anywhere
around here... oh well. I guess i'll stick with the pen knife. although I heard
of a Left Handed Store in Burlington, NC that sell all sortsa stuff like lefty
cards, can openers, pencils (the lead doesn't smudge when you drag your hand
across it) and other useful items. Anybody in VA or NC know where this store or
a nearby one is? I'm in Greensboro, NC.

>Use nail polish remover, a scouring pad, some neutral solvent, or all.
[...etc...]
>I had the same question - what to use to clean it.  I steel-wooled all obvious
>coatings, glue, etc. from my materials prior to assembly, but now have flux all
>over.  I'd prefer an immersion cleaning, because of the possibility of missing
>something by hand.

Ouch! Wouldn't the scouring action of the steel wool create "groovy" places for
beasties to grow? (Sorry, couldn't resist the puntential for a joke...) I have
used a small cloth, made of tough cotton, and have been able to remove all
kinds of gunk with a little elbow grease (who needs Tennis - my elbows already
ache!).

Captain Kirk
AYDLETT at UNCG.BITNET
AYDLETT at STEFFI.ACC.UNCG.EDU

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Date: Fri Jul 27 15:47:53 1990
From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Hot Ferment

Hi Y'all,

	If anybody cares my Hot Ferment went well.  The average temp
of my wort was 73 degrees (The temperature of my bath room floor).
It finished it's primary ferment in 1 1/2 days.

	When I racked it I noticed a fruity flavor.  I think that
this may be from the Alexanders Malt Extract, I've never used it before.
I think I remember someone mentioning this before.  Any comment?

	By the way what does IMHO stand for?
	(I Mash Homegrown Oats) :-)

- -- Bob Gorman                 Relational Semantics, Inc.  Watertown MA US --
- -- semantic!bob at uunet.uu.net  17 Mount Auburn Street      +1 617 926 0979 --


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Date: Fri Jul 27 15:47:53 1990
From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Racking Tube Horror Stories

Hi Y'all,

	On a different subject: I've been having troubles using
one of those rigid type racking tubes.  The problem is a loss of
pressure/suction where the rigid racking tube connect with my racking 
hose.  The difference in between the inside diameter (ID) of the
rigid tube and the ID of the hose creates an open air gap.  This
gap causes the suction to slow and eventually the siphon fails.  I've
tried putting a hose clamp at the connection, thinking there was an
air leak there, but that was not it.
	
(I'm gonna flame here)
	This really gets me pissed when the siphon stops and the
remaining beer/wort in the tube *BUBBLES* back into the carboy!
Of course I do this several times, AAAARGHHHHH!!!, before I give
up and just use a plain hose.

	I would really like to use one of these rigid tubes because
my hose tends to curl and this makes getting the last of the wort
out of a carboy difficult.

	Does anybody else have this problem?
	Any suggestions? Please!

- -- Bob Gorman                 Relational Semantics, Inc.  Watertown MA US --
- -- semantic!bob at uunet.uu.net  17 Mount Auburn Street      +1 617 926 0979 --


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Date: Fri, 27 Jul 90 19:55:49 -0700
From: hplabs!garth!phipps (Clay Phipps)
Subject: Re: off tastes from honey

In HOMEBREW Digest #467 (Wed 25 July 1990), 
hplabs!mage!lou (Louis Clark) wrote:
>
>[In HOMEBREW Digest #465, RussG wrote:
>>
>>I've also got a brown ale of sorts that has been bottle for 10 days or so, 
>>and it is not clearing at all (unlike all my other batches). 
>>I[t] also has a sharply homebrew" taste 
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>(sour, bitter, off, but not particularly bad). 
   ^^^^  ^^^^^^  ^^^
Are you sure that you're hanging out with competent homebrewers ?
None of these adjectives accurately describe competent homebrew.

>>It is my first batch using honey (2 lbs. of bargain stuff). 

My only batch using more than a pound of honey
also had a sharp, almost lemony sourness to it, and I was *worried*.
And I did not add any citric acid during any part of the process.

>>Is the honey responsible? 

Apparently so--for me.  
The sourness disappeared completely after a few months.

>>Is is the dreaded "I" word?  

I concluded that it was not--for me.  A very experienced homebrewer,
beer judge, and former local brew-pub brewmaster concurred.  
He didn't taste it until it had been in the bottle for 8 months!

>>I'm letting it sit for a couple of weeks.....
>
>Honey beers take much longer to age than other beers.  
>I often make ginger-honey beers (a la TCJoHB) 
>that can take up to six months to be drinkable 
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>but eventually become heavenly.

6 months seems about right.  I regret stashing so little of that batch
away.  I would have been better to have brewed some quick-maturing beer
to divert demand from my honey beer until it was ready to drink.

[The foregoing may or may not represent the position, if any, of my employer, ]
[ who is identified solely to allow the reader to account for personal biases.]
                                              
Clay Phipps                                
Intergraph APD, 2400#4 Geng Road, Palo Alto, CA 94303              415/852-2327
UseNet (Intergraph internal): ingr!apd!phipps
UseNet (external): {apple,pyramid,sri-unix}!garth!phipps        EcoNet: cphipps


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Date: Sun Jul 29 16:25:01 1990
From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Bock im Stein

Hello,

     I recently found an interesting beer.  I was on my way home
from doing some camping and I stopped in a New Hampshire State
Liquor Store.  I was perusing the isles looking for some good
Irish Whiskey, when an interesting bottle caught my eye.  It was
a clay bottle with a resealable top, like on Grolsch bottles.  Upon
a second glance the word BOCK stuck out.  I thought they only
sold hard liquor here, Well, it was indeed beer!

     The beer is 'Fiedlers Bock im Stein'.  A German Beer.  The
label also says 'Bockbier im echten Steinkrug'.  Can somebody
translate this??

     The back label says it's '... an unpasteurized aromatic 
pilsener beer ...'.

     The bottle came capped with a standard bottle cap, and the
resealable cap was hanging on the side.  The bottle is made
of clay and is glazed brown.   It has a four inch diameter and
stands about eight inches high.  This is a hefty bottle!  It was
definitely made to be reused, sort of novelty marketing, like
Grolsch bottles.  I think you Mead makers would like this, it
could hold some serious pressure. It holds 1 Pint, 9 Ozs.  I
really like the bottle, and I considered buying a case, but I
thought I would first try it out before doing so.  I bought two
bottles at $3.65 each.

     Ok, now to the beer.  I'm no beer judge but I will try
to relate in typed words.  The color is a clear golden/amber. 
The head is average and the carbonation medium to low.  I don't
have a very good sense of smell, but it smells like beer :-}. 
The flavor is very malty and thick.   Surprisingly so for the
color.  It sort of reminds me of Sam Smiths Oatmeal Stout.  It
has a medium hop flavor, tastes a bit spicy. Not very bitter. 
Gotta be some good German hops in there.  It's good beer!

     It's worth a try, of course, that's what beer drinkers do! 
I really like the bottle.  I have never seen it before, and
may never again, but I thought I would relate this to you all.

     Oh yes, It's imported by: Consolidated Distilled Products,
Inc. of Chicago.

     One more thing:  I also found there a 'Belgain ale flavored
with fresh cherries',  but that's for another day. (1 pint & 9 Ozs
of Bock im Stein says it's time to eat dinner and stop drinking
bier ;-}.

- -- Cheers!

- -- Bob Gorman                 Relational Semantics, Inc.  Watertown MA US --
- -- semantic!bob at uunet.uu.net  17 Mount Auburn Street      +1 617 926 0979 --


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Date: Mon, 30 Jul 90 14:00:33 PDT
From: winter%cirrusl at oliveb.ATC.olivetti.com (Keith Winter)
Subject: Over-carbonated :-(


OK, I'm trying to relax but it is getting harder to do.  My latest batch
(Papazian's Palalia India Pale Ale) has come out over-carbonated.  I
asked for some insight from the collective expertise of the digest when
my second batch (Papazian's Sparrow Hawk Porter) came out this way.  
Between that one and this one, I tried the same Pale Ale but only primed 
with 1/2 cup of corn sugar (as suggested) and it was under-carbonated.  So, 
on this second pale, I boosted the sugar back to 3/4 cup and voila, I have 
over-carbonation again.  By over-carbonation, I mean that when I pour it 
into a Pilsener glass, I get one inch of beer and four inces of head!  I 
have to spoon out the foam and pour again (and again, and again...).  

I am beginning to suspect an infection but the beer is really GOOD and
there isn't any gushing.  If I pop the top on the bottle and let it sit,
it will start to slowly foam out after about two minutes - not my 
definition of gushing.

For the record, I followed the recipes almost verbatum (I used a roasted
barley instead of toasted in the last (over-carbonated) batch of Pale.
I used Edme Ale yeast but I've used it and not had the problem, too so I
don't know if that could be a problem.  Someone mentioned (back in April,
I think) that they had heard that Edme had an infection problem.

I have some Rocky Racoon Crystal Honey Ale in the primary now and I'd like
to NOT have this problem again.  I also intend to start a Holiday Ale in
September which will be layed away until Christmas and I expect that would
be a prime candidate for over-carbonation, sitting for that length of time.  

Any other ideas from the group?

	Keith "trying to relax" Winter

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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 90 09:42:01 -0400
From: gt4393c at prism.gatech.edu (Yanasak, Ivan R.)
Subject: Ale yeast: brand suggestions?

Hey There,

I'm going for batch #2 this Friday (the Spruce Ale from CJoHB), and need
recommendations for ale yeast.  What are good dry yeasts?   Are the
liquid cultures worth the extra $? (The local store has Wyeast).

Thanks,
 -Ivan   gt4393c at prism.gatech.edu
 

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Date: 	Tue, 31 Jul 1990 16:16:40 -0400
From: Rob McDonald <ames!gatech!maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca!rob at decwrl.dec.com>
Subject: Homebrew clubs

I have been reading and (hopefully) learning quite a bit from this mailing
list for about six months now.  We seem to have the best signal/noise
ratio I have encountered on the net.

Can anybody point me to a homebrewing club in the Burlington, Ontario area?
Anything within 80 km would be of interest (ie I'll go to Toronto if I
have to).
.....rob

EMAIL:   rob at maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca  <<< Standard Disclaimers Apply >>>
ARCHAIC: Steltech, 1375 Kerns Rd., Burlington, Ontario, Canada, L7P 3H8.

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Date: Thu, 2 Aug 90 04:55:36 PDT
From: "Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503 02-Aug-1990 0753" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Brewpubs in...St. Louis (blasphemy)

Looking through the brewpub list, I find none in St. Louis.  Are there any, or 
have the big-brew interests kept them out?

BTW - on behalf of all DECUS types, are there any in Las Vegas - site of the 
next Symposium?

Thanks...Gary

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Date: Sun, 5 Aug 90 23:49:12 GMT
From: aem at mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU (a.e.mossberg)
Subject: Wine and Brew By You Open House


I was over at Wine and Brew By You today, and Craig and Sandy asked
me to extend to all homebrew digest readers an invitation to stop
by and spend a day with them in the store. Learn how a real homebrewing
supply shop works, see Sandy and Craig (and sometimes me) brew beer,
make wine, and clean up after store pets. There's always 8 or so beers
on tap, and usually a few bags of Zapps open. 

5760 Bird Rd, Miami Florida  (305) 666-5757

this blatant ad brought to you by aem, we now return to the regular feature.


aem

- -- 
a.e.mossberg / aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem at umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion
A tree farm is not a forest.


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #469, 08/07/90
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