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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  a prodigal homebrewer returns... (Teresa Knezek)
  Re: Yeast Origin (Bill Rogers)
  adjusting SG; and we don' need no steenking blowoff ("Jon Olsen")
  RE: Yeast Origin (Steven Parfitt)
  Re: making KIRIN ICHIBAN (?) (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Am I Fool to Ask for Beer in Bordeaux (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Kirin Ichiban (mtigges)
  Re: Am I Fool to Ask for Beer in Bordeaux (Mark Tigges)
  Re: bugs in your malt ("Ronald La Borde")
  Potassium Metabisulfite in Beer (Robert Sandefer)
  Re: making KIRIN ICHIBAN (?) (Robert Sandefer)
  Re:  cloning KIRIN ICHIBAN ("larry  maxwell")
  6 Gallon Carboys ("Ed Measom")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:34:44 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <mivox.mail at gmail.com>
Subject: a prodigal homebrewer returns...

Well hey, after about a year of sitting on my rear, letting my
homebrew equipment gather dust, I said "Enough! Yes, the microbrew
around here is damned good and plentiful, but it's also expensive as
hell, and still not as good as MY beer!"

I dug around, dusted everything off, and put a batch of rye ale in the
fermenter on Sunday. Predictably, my year-old 'fresh' yeast never woke
up, but that's why one should always keep a few dry yeast packets
lying about... The vacuum sealed hops in the freezer smelled lovely
when I cut the bags open, and the rubbermaid totes seem to have kept
my grain in acceptable condition.

When I brushed my teeth Monday night, I heard a long-forgotten *FOOSH*
noise in the closet behind me, and indeed, there was my beer, merrily
foaming out the top of my airlock lid. (5.5 gallons is pushing one's
luck a bit on a 6 gal. carboy, but mopping the linoleum closet floor
isn't too difficult! ;-)

I also bought 4 minikegs for my two beer engines (one of which,
tragically, has yet to be used...) which, if I keep to my plan of
brewing a stout this coming weekend, means I will soon have two beers
on tap at my own private pub here in Two Rivers. Hurrah! I haven't
decided if I should go with curry, roast or fish-n-chips for the dual
pump inaugural extravaganza...

So there we go... back on the True Path, and scheming more makeshift
'new & improved' brewing equipment already.

- -- 
Teresa 'mivox' Knezek
 
[2855.5, 325deg] AR


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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:56:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Rogers <bill6beers at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Origin

Bill Gornicki asks about yeast strain origins.  I've found this site to be very
helpful:  
http://smurman.best.vwh.net/zymurgy/yeast.html

Brew on, dude...
Bill Rogers
Madison, WI

>Subject: Yeast Origin
>Hey Brewers!!!
>There used to be some decent sites with good information on
>yeast origin.  If you could point me to these...that would be helpful.
<snip>
>Bill Gornicki
>CRAFT Homebrew Club
>Michigan



		


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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 06:21:07 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jon Olsen" <burnunit at waste.org>
Subject: adjusting SG; and we don' need no steenking blowoff

Remembering back to my less-than-full-wort boiling days, I recall adding
the wort to a quantity of water which had the effect of both slightly
cooling the brew and dropping the specific gravity. I was brewing a bitter
this weekend (a toast to the legacy of Dr. King, of course). I deemed the
wort too thick-- and besides, I'd wanted More! So I calculated that adding
1 gallon of water to 4 gallons of SG 1.052 wort would drop the gravity to
~1.041 ( (4 * 1.052 + 1)/5=1.0416). This makes sense, right? What never
came up in those extract days was: Does this significantly alter one's
balance of flavors and body?

Listening to the talk about "what does one use a 6 gallon carboy for" I
feel like an odd man out or something.  I've never used a blow off tube
(so I guess my answer to Anthony is, ship those 6 gallon beauties to
Minneapolis, I'll  ...er...  make the sacrifice on your behalf and use
them for primaries) . I ferment in glass and/or plastic, usually making
4.5-5.25 gal batches. Call me crazy, but I've never used a blow off tube.
I brew ales too, and I've watched with only a mild touch of anxiety as
occasionally the gorgeous foamy head filled up the last gallon of space in
my 6 gallon carboy.  I've only wished I had a blowoff tube twice- right
now, since I added water and there's less headspace than I'd planned; and
previously I brewed an imperial stout that rocketed the lid off my 6.5 gal
bucket fermenter (that's still the coolest thing in my brewing history). I
feel my starters are adequate (usually 1L) and haven't had attenuation
problems, so I don't question the er... manly vigor of my small-head
brews.

I realize blowoff tubes are sometimes useful, but what's the deal,
seriously? Some talk about them as an "of course" and "obviously you lose
a little to blow off"-- as if inviting that brew to commit felo-de-se into
a bucket or mason jar of water is a natural proposition. You know, some
folks consider spilling booze a sin...

JonO
Minneapolis


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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 05:56:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Yeast Origin

Bill Ponders the similarity of WY1056 and WLP001

Bill, I have done a side by side comparison with a
split batch of wort and found them to be identical.
Just a data point.

I also have heard that the origin of this yeast was
the old Ballentine Brewery and was used for Ballentine
IPA.

As far as general side by side testing I have had
mixed luck. I tried comparing WY1214 and one of the
WLP Belgian Yeasts (I think 500) and both ended up
very close. I think I had a pitching issue which
caused the WY1214 to take longer to finish and it
ended with a higher gravity than I was used to with
it. I attribute the differences to this alone.

I think it is very difficult to hold ALL variables
close enough to do a side by side comparison without
expection some minor differences in the finished beer.

Steven
>Hey Brewers!!!
>
>There used to be some decent sites with good
>information on yeast origin.  If you could point me
>to these...that would be helpful.
>
>For example, I have heard that Wyeast 1056 and White
>Labs Califorinia are the same strain.  However, the 
>beers that I make with these yeasts have different
>yeast characteristics - close but different.  
>
>Are they the same strain?
>
>Bill Gornicki
>CRAFT Homebrew Club
>Michigan



		


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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:17:49 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: making KIRIN ICHIBAN (?)

Darrell leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu writes:

>I have been challenged by a friend to attempt to make KIRIN ICHIBAN.  Does
>anyone have a clue ?
>
>I suppose that it is close to a cream ale recipe, with a clean lager 
>yeast, and
>perhaps Japanese hops?

This is a timely request.  Last week I was in the Tampa Bay area, as 
I was a year ago for a week.  Both times I enjoyed a six-pack of 
Budweiser-brewed Ichiban (which I understand means Number One) a 
great deal.  I thought it had a wonderful, light "beery" aroma which 
I can't quite place, but it's hops in part.  It reminds me of the way 
beer smelled when I was a kid.  American lager doesn't smell that way 
anymore.

So in a way, I guess it's a semi-CAP.

As I mentioned in passing, it's brewed by A/B, I think in California, 
which is ironic in that I was within a few miles of the A/B Tampa 
brewery.  What I had was about ten weeks old - not too bad.

When I got home both last year and this, I checked the online reviews 
of Ichiban, and almost entirely, people dumped on it.  On one site, 
it had a cumulative score of 69 (avoid).

I think these are beer snobs who love to dump on A/B or anything else 
that doesn't taste big and bombastic.  I think it's a really nice 
beer for its style.  I'd guess that it is hopped in the upper teens 
or so, has more body and flavor than any American beer but less than, 
say, a German mega-Pils like Beck's.  Nice, clean, light lingering 
hop bitterness.

But I thought it was wonderfully balanced and drinkable.  Much nicer 
than A/B's other premiums, Michelob and the newish Anheuser World 
Select http://www.anheuser-busch.com/news/anheuserselect.htm, which, 
I think, is an attempt to challenge Heineken.

Everyone on the online review sites assume it's brewed with rice, and 
I would guess that might be true, but rice is expensive in Japan - 
more than corn, and it wouldn't be at all surprising if they used 
that.  But there is no corn flavor or aroma.

So how about 1.045/1.010, 25% rice, white corn or some of each, with 
a cereal mash, hopped with imported Hallertauer and/or Tettnanger to 
20 IBU with flavor and aroma additions, clean lager yeast - not 
A/B's!  Make sure you do a diacetyl rest if the yeast needs it.

To get the full attenuation, mash in the main mash at 145F, rest 30 
minutes, then add the cereal mash to boost to 158F.  Aerate the 
chilled wort well and use lots of yeast, as you always should. 
Ferment 48-52F, lager 32F.

Good luck.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:37:37 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Am I Fool to Ask for Beer in Bordeaux

  Tom Viemont <t_viemont at bellsouth.net> writes from Raleigh, NC asks

>Am I Fool to Ask for Beer in Bordeaux

Yes!  (accompanied by a dope slap)

Oh, you want details.  ;-)

>My wife and I are going to spend a week in Bordeaux, France in late
>Feb/early March.  Has anyone been there and tasted any beer there? 
>While I certainly will take advantage of the great wines, I am partial
>to beer.  I plan to look for bottled Belgian beer in the stores.  I
>imagine that I'll be able to find Stela Artois most anywhere...in that
>case, I'll have wine.
>
>We are going to spend one night in Bordeaux, the city, a few days near
>Perigord, a few more days near St. Emilion and then one night in Paris.
>We're on the look out for oysters and foie gras.

Here's my take on it.  You are unlikely to find any beer in Bordeaux 
that you can't find elsewhere, but you are in BORDEAUX for God's 
sake, man!  What an opportunity!  Drinking beer in Bordeaux is like 
going to Brussels and drinking wine and declining to taste the local 
beers.

Wine is worth getting to know and appreciate, and there is no better 
place than Bordeaux.  This is presumably why you are traveling - for 
new experiences and tastes, even though you are partial to beer. 
When in Rome ...  And foods and wines always seem to taste best in 
their own regions.

Don't feel that you have to drink Chateau Lafite.  You can't afford 
it there any more than in the US.  But you should be able to find 
plenty of fine Cru Bourgeois wines which aren't exported because they 
are small production.  That's part of the fun - tracking down local 
gems.  The locals will know - ask them.

Hope I haven't come down too hard on you.  I just think it would be a 
shame to go to one of the world's great wine regions and drink beer, 
just because you are partial to it, or reluctantly drink wine just 
because the best beer choice is Stella.  This could be an eye-opening 
experience.

BTW, be sure to drink wine with a leisurely lunch, too, the way the 
French do, or at least used to do before they before they got 
McDonaldized.

Have fun!

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:10:53 -0800
From: mtigges at shaw.ca
Subject: Re: Kirin Ichiban

> I have been challenged by a friend to attempt to make KIRIN ICHIBAN.
> Does anyone have a clue ?

I'd use nothing but the palest pilsner malt I could find.  Maybe
something else to balance the pH depending on your water, but nothing
that would lend too much maltiness. I would mash low, say 65C, with a
mash-out on the low side too.  This is a very dry beer.

> perhaps Japanese hops?

If you mean Humulus Japonicus, then don't.  These are decorative hops
only.  I've never heard of anyone brewing with them.  I would use a
light touch with Saaz.

Basically, I think its very similar beer to NAIL, only minus the
adjuncts, and with 2-row pilsner.

Mark,
Vancouver, BC.  



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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:12:09 -0800
From: Mark Tigges <m at idelix.com>
Subject: Re: Am I Fool to Ask for Beer in Bordeaux

> We're on the look out for oysters and foie gras.

I was in Paris a year ago for a night, and stayed in the nice
apartment of my friend. One block from him is a little tiny outlet
store that is supplied by local farmers.  Wall to wall Foie Gras. I
thought I'd died and gone to heaven.

It's on Rue des Mathurins, just south of the Metro Saint Augustin
(subway station).  I can get the name of the shop pretty easily.  If
you're interested, let me know offline and I'll find it out.

BTW: I can't speak for the rest of France, but in Paris, beer is
ridiculously expensive.

Mark,
Vancouver, BC


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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:14:38 -0600
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: Re: bugs in your malt

>From: Ed Jones <cuisinartoh at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: bugs in your malt
>
>I'd say, throw out all the infested malt and buy fresh from someone
not
>peddling infested product :-)

I concur.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde




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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:33:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Sandefer <robertsandefer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Potassium Metabisulfite in Beer

I have recently conducted a little experiment on the
use of sulfite in removing chlorine/chloramine from
brewing water (rather than running it through a
filter).

I first read of this idea in a Mr. Wizard article on
www.byo.com. 

I made two 2.5-gal batches of porter. They had the
same grists, hop schedules, etc. The one used tap
water for mash and sparge water. The other batch's
mash and sparge water had potassium metabisulfite
stirred in a few minutes before heating.

I determined 1T powdered potassium metabisulfite
weighs 21 g. I added a .25 tsp to 2 fl oz tap water
and stirred well. This solution was then measured out.


The BYO article covers calculating the amounts of
potassium metabisulfite needed; I used 70 mg added to
the 6 quarts of mash water and 110 mg added to the 3
gal of sparge water. 

Recently in a blind tasting I preferred the porter
with sulfited water. The beer without sulfite had a
weird, unpleasant taste/bitterness (chlorophenols
theoretically). The sulfite beer did not have this
taste. Difference between the two was small but
noticeable.

Over all, adding sulfite to tap water is an easy way
to remove chlorine and produce noticeably better beer.

Sante.
Robert Sandefer
Novato, CA




		


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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:04:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Sandefer <robertsandefer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: making KIRIN ICHIBAN (?)

kirin.com mentions "barley malt, premium hops, smooth
finish, no bitter aftertaste"; gives alcohol at 4.95%
abv; and suggests that the wort is first runnings
only--i.e., no sparging.

My suggestions:

A mash with soft water and 100% pilsener malt
(although a pound or two of rice or rice extract might
be ok. Aim for OG 1.050). The mash should be loose
(about 2 quarts/lb) to increase the first runnings
volume and cool (148F or less) to encourage
attenuation. 

Collect the first runnings only (may increase malt
flavors but will lower efficiency). 

Boil. Hop to <20ibu with German noble hops (I am not
aware of any native Japanese hops). 

No flavor or aroma hops (from what I remember of my
last Kirin). 

Ferment with the most attenuative and blandest lager
yeast you can find.

This should get you in the area. Let me know if you
try this.

Robert Sandefer
Novato, CA


		


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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:23:30 -0500
From: "larry maxwell" <larrymax at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re:  cloning KIRIN ICHIBAN

Darrell:  I can't help you with cloning Kirin Ichiban, but have you
and your friend tried Sapporo's Yebisu?  It's perhaps the only
Japanese lager available here that's all malt, i.e., without adjuncts,
and I always ask for it at sushi bars.  I'd much rather clone that.
But Kirin Ichiban isn't bad, considering that's brewed in the U.S.
by A-B.

Larry
Atlanta



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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:02:48 -0500
From: "Ed Measom" <ed_measom at earthlink.net>
Subject: 6 Gallon Carboys

Anthony asks,
>I recently bought out an ex-home brewers equipment
>from his ex-wife, so I was unable to ask him what the
>6 gallon carboys were used for. I was thinking to big
>for a secondary and to small for a primary. Or am I
>just plain wrong.

Well, some years back I up-graded my beer making from 5 gallon carboys to 6.
What I did with my 5's was to make mead, wine and cider with them. They work
great for this!

Ed Measom



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