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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Yeast Origin (Jeff Renner)
  KIRIN ICHIBAN - Japanese hops (Chet Nunan)
  Sulfite/Metabite in brewing ("A.J deLange")
  RE:  Infested malt - it's for the birds..... (Robert S Wallace)
  Looking for kegs (Sam Nickerson)
  Used Bourbon Barrels ("David Houseman")


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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:03:46 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Yeast Origin

Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com> writes

>Bill Ponders the similarity of WY1056 and WLP001
>
>Bill, I have done a side by side comparison with a
>split batch of wort and found them to be identical.

Steven

Did you notice if there was a difference in the yeast head formed? 
You would probably only notice this in an open fermenter.

Dan McConnell's Yeast Culture Kit Co.'s version of this formed a 
distinctive yeast head, as did the original Ballantine yeast, the 
putative source of this strain.  I haven't noticed this with Wyeast 
or WhiteLabs, but I can't remember which one.

I thought that the YCKCo's version had a little more character as 
well, but I can't swear to that.  The other two seem neutral to the 
point of BORE-ing!, as Joanne Worley used to say on Laugh In (for you 
old timers).

Damn, I miss YCKCo.  Especially since Dan used to give me free 2 L starters.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 05:31:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Chet Nunan <katjulchet at yahoo.com>
Subject: KIRIN ICHIBAN - Japanese hops

Here's a source that lists some Japanese hops.  

http://www.fortunecity.com/boozers/brewerytap/555/hops/varieties.htm
   

(Thanks CJinJ)

It's dated 2000, and there's no info on where/if
they're available, but it's a starting point...

My guess is that if it's being brewed in the US by AB,
it won't be using Japanese hops anyway; JMHO...



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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:44:16 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Sulfite/Metabite in brewing

Alexander asked a couple of days ago about the use of reducing agents in 
beer for improved stability. I don't know too much about this except 
that brewing regulations in the UK allow quite a bit of sulfite to be 
present in beer (up to 70 mg/L if I remember right) and HBS&Y report 
that British beers typically contain 20 - 30 mg/L so apparently British 
brewers do use it. HBS&Y suggest that it is employed mainly for its 
bacteriostatic propterites but note that it readily reduces lots of 
things (they mention carbonyls in particular) to the extent that the 
levels fall rapidly after introduction.

In a similar vein I have noted here several times that I strongly 
suspect that lager strains are big sulfite producers just because high 
sulfite levels lend the stability a lager requires to sit in a cave for 
3 months and come out fresh tasting at the end so that the German 
brewers of yore selected for sulfite production. IOW the answer to 
Alexander's question as to how to get high sulfite levels is to select a 
lager strain.

Another use of metabite in brewing was mentioned in a post today and 
that is in reducing chloramines. In the event this subject may be of 
interest again I've put the manuscript for my 1998 BT article (as a 
 .pdf) on chloramines at http://homepage.mac.com/ajdel/FileSharing8.html.

Another interesting, but sort of off topic, brewing related application 
of sulfite is that yeast cells exposed to high levels of it during 
fermentation will produce much increased levels of glycerol. Thus were 
German breweries converted to sources of the raw material for explosives 
in WW I.

The other popular reducing agent often suggested for use in beer is 
ascorbic acid and this is  done mostly, I believe, to combat haze 
formation. I have never used it but have seen several people report that 
oxidized ascorbic acid tastes as bad as oxidized beer and that it is, 
therefore, to be avoided.

A.J.


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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:04:36 -0600
From: Robert S Wallace <rwallace at iastate.edu>
Subject: RE:  Infested malt - it's for the birds.....

At 09:10 PM 1/16/2005, fellow ham operator, Derek Sheehan W7REX wrote:

>My question is that I recall from another forum that some people freeze
>their malt for a few days when they purchase it to kill any hitch
>hikers. Can any of the entomologists in the group verify this?

I am not an entomologist, nor do I play one on TV, but as a biologist I can 
answer some of your questions....

>  How long do you have to keep it cold to kill bugs?

         The likelihood is that cold treatment, even freezing, will not 
kill everything.  The adults, larvae and pupae (whether moths or beetles) 
*might* be killed by freezing, but the thousands of eggs they laid likely 
will not.  Many insects can sustain prolonged freezing without ill effects. 
(Houseflies are "famous" for this...)  Perhaps liquid nitrogen might do the 
trick??  We'd need to experiment with that one.....

         I once purchased a 50 pounds of Briess 2-row malt that was 
infested with confused flour beetles (Tribolium confusum) from Wind River 
Brewing during a visit to Minneapolis.  When I opened the bag, I found 
thousands of "friends" (who had also come down I-35 on the ride to Ames), I 
immediately called Scott at Wind River who had a replacement bag of malt to 
me in a few days - what I call outstanding service.  He obviously did not 
want the contaminated bag of 2-row back, so I kept the buggy malt in the 
garage in some 5 gallon drywall compound buckets, and, for the next several 
months, used it (bugs and all) to feed the birds, who seemed to appreciate 
it very much (including its additional six-legged protein and lipid 
supplement).  I'd recommend you do the same with your malt, since brewing 
with arthropod adjuncts probably violates the spirit of the Reinheitsgebot.

>How long can I expect to store malt in Michigan before something decides 
>to eat it?

Contamination organisms are everywhere; it is really hard to tell you how 
long it takes before something eats it - this will vary tremendously by 
season, how the malt is stored, and what your local insect fauna is like 
(e.g. what species are present, in what abundance, etc.) ....  probably an 
unanswerable question....

>  I'd like to know how much malt I can reasonably have stored for my 
> brewing frequency.

No one can answer this but you, since only you know how often you brew, 
what batch size, what kinds of malt, etc. that you brew with.  At 
commercial malting operations unmalted grains and malt are stored in open 
bins, rail cars, etc. for weeks or months and contamination with insect 
pests is an issue.  Occasionally infestations occur, which are more than 
"troublesome" to maltsters.  Your best bet is to get hard-sided containers 
that seal with gaskets to assure that the grain is contained (plastic bags, 
in some cases, are 'breachable" by insects).  Malt can be stored for months 
if done so suitable conditions with no appreciable loss in quality.

         I agree with Dan Listerman (who "Philled" the advice role 
correctly!) that said to blanket your stored grains with CO2 and suffocate 
the little beasties (which should also get the eggs, as well as other life 
cycle stages).  I store my malt in recycled gasketed polypropylene buckets 
(previously holding dry non-toxic lab chemicals such as buffers, salts, 
etc. in plastic bags) that serve to seal the malt away from external 
invaders, and every few months I blast some CO2 into the buckets to provide 
a blanket to serve as a preventative, although I think the gaskets seal 
well enough to keep bugs out.

>Luckily, I live in MI and we are experiencing a nice cold front right now. 
>Single digit temps at night and the teens in the day. I think a couple of 
>days under my deck should be enough time in the cold for my malt bins...
>
>Derek

      I still would advise you to go the CO2 route, since cold treatment 
may not give you the anti-insect protection you are seeking.

         Good luck with your brewing and 73,

         Rob Wallace, WA0RW
         Associate Professor of Botany, Iowa State University
         Ames, Iowa



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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:03:15 -0400
From: Sam Nickerson <sam.nickerson at gmail.com>
Subject: Looking for kegs

I am looking for corny kegs, but want the type that does _NOT_ have
the rubber boot around the top and they must be ball lock. These are
the oldies that have a single plastic or metal handle. If anyone has
seen such a beastie for sale please email me directly. I am in
Atlanta, but could pay postage of course.


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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:51:35 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: Used Bourbon Barrels

Our hb club would like to purchase a once used bourbon barrel.  It looks
like the sites on the web that we've found require bulk purchase of many
barrels.  If someone has a link to a site that sells single barrels of
used-once, select barrels please send us the URL or post on HBD.

Thanks,

Dave Houseman







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