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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  PBW vs BLC (Lou King)
  Maillard/caramel ("Dave Burley")
  RE: Aeration stone cleaning ("Todd K.")
  London Breweries (Russ.Hobaugh)
  Lazy man's (or woman's) apple cider (HOMEBRE973)
  Re: Wine Country ("Dave Larsen")
  RE: WL Edinburgh ("Jim Mccrillis")
  Bruheat thermostat ("John Misrahi")


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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:39:53 -0500
From: Lou King <lking at pobox.com>
Subject: PBW vs BLC

I would have thought this was discussed before, but some searching of
the hbd.org site did not find the answer I'm looking for.

I have used PBW and I am trying BLC now.  I want to know if any experts
have compared the two regarding effectiveness in cleaning (maybe one is
better at cleaning some things than the other), how much caution is
required when using each, etc.  

I notice immediately that BLC dissolves more quickly -- well of course
it does, it's a liquid.  I also noticed that particulate matter seems to
float in the BLC, while it seems to sink in the PBW.  While I'm sure
it's always better to use "clean" cleaning solution, I tend to keep used
solution around for general purpose cleaning between sessions.

Speaking of using dirty solution to clean stuff, I was surprised at the
following: I put a couple of used beer bottles into some "dirty" BLC,
and when retrieved days later, there was some obvious film on areas on
the inside of the bottles, which did not rinse off.  I don't think this
would have happened with PBW, at least I have never seen that before.

I *think* PBW is cheaper per use.  It's hard to do the conversion now,
but at (e.g.) MoreBeer, BLC is $12 for 33 oz and PBW is $19.95 for 4
lbs.  The BLC makes about 21 gallons of solution (1.72 gal per $1),
while the PBW makes... well, like I said it's hard to figure out but I'm
pretty sure the PBW would make more.  It seemed like my last 4#
container of PBW made more than 34 gallons of solution (1.72*$19.95).

On caution, I admit to being more cautious with the BLC than I was with
the PBW.  Maybe that is ignorance on my part, and I should be just as
cautious with the PBW.  I did see this subject in the archives and both
caution and lack of caution were mentioned regarding BLC at least.  I
noticed a blister near my eye after a brew session, which could have
been caused by a dilute BLC splash -- I have been wearing eye protection
since.

Does anyone else have an opinion on BLC vs PBW?

Lou King
Ijamsville, MD
http://www.lousbrews.info




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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:21:02 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Maillard/caramel

Brewsters:

Check out :

http://www.bigpedia.com/encyclopedia/Caramelization

Caramelization is the oxidation of sugar, a process used extensively in
cooking for the resulting nutty flavor and brown color. Caramelization is a
type of non-enzymatic browning reaction because it does not need enzymes. As
the process occurs, volatile chemicals are released producing the
characteristic caramel flavor.

Process
Caramelization is a complex, poorly understood process that produces hundreds
of chemicals. Here is an overview:

  1.. equilibration of anomeric and ring forms
  2.. sucrose inversion to fructose and glucose
  3.. condensation
  4.. intramolecular bonding
  5.. isomerization of aldoses to ketoses
  6.. dehydration reactions
  7.. fragmentation reactions
  8.. unsaturated polymer formation
Caramelization should not be confused with the Maillard reaction, in which a
reducing sugar reacts with amino acids.

Caramelization temperatures
  Caramelization temperatures  Sugar  Temperature
      Fructose  110 C
      Galactose  160 C
      Glucose  160 C
      Maltose  180 C
      Sucrose  160 C

- ---------------

Interestingly, these temperatures ( although degrees C is not the same as F)
 suggest to me that perhaps the low temperature kilning of
lager ( typically in the (110-120F region) and pale ale malts ( often
120 -135F)  might produce caramels ( perhaps via Maillard) from the
fructose and that the higher kilning temperatures as in Caramel ( Crystal)
 and dark malts the caramel flavors come from other sugars. This is
consistent with the relatively small amount of and distinctive "bready" rather
narrow profile caramel taste in the lower kilned malts as they have a small
 amount of fructose and are derived from a single sugar type.
- ------------------------

Also check out

http://www.bigpedia.com/encyclopedia/Maillard_reaction#The_process

Maillard reaction
The Maillard reaction is a chemical reaction between an amino acid and a
reducing sugar, usually requiring the addition of heat. Like caramelization,
it is a form of non-enzymatic browning. The reactive carbonyl group of the
sugar interacts with the nucleophilic amino group of the amino acid, and
interesting but poorly characterized odor and flavor molecules result. This
reaction is the basis of the flavoring industry, since the type of amino acid
determines the resulting flavor.

In the process, hundreds of different flavor compounds are created. These
compounds in turn break down to form yet more new flavor compounds, and so on.
Each type of food has a very distinctive set of flavor compounds that are
formed during the Maillard reaction. It is these same compounds that flavor
scientists have used over the years to create artificial flavors.

Although used since ancient times, the reaction is named after the chemist
Louis-Camille Maillard who investigated it in the 20th century.

      Contents [showhide]
      1 Foods with Maillard reactions

      2 The process

      3 Factors

      4 See also

      5 External links


Foods with Maillard reactions
  a.. 'caramel' made from milk and sugar
  b.. the browning of bread and toast
  c.. the colour of beer, chocolate, coffee, and maple syrup
  d.. self-tanning products
  e.. the flavour of roast meat
  f.. the color of dried or condensed milk
The process
  1.. The carbonyl group of the sugar reacts with the amino group of the amino
acid, producing N-substituted glycosylamine and water
  2.. The unstable glycosylamine undergoes Amadori rearrangement , forming
ketosamines
  3.. There are several ways for the ketosamines to react further:
    a.. Produce 2 water and reductones
    b.. Diacetyl, acetol , pyruvaldehyde and other short-chain hydrolytic
fission products can be formed
    c.. Produce brown nitrogenous polymers and melanoidins
Factors
Pentose sugars react more than hexoses, which react more than disaccharides.
Different amino acids produce different amounts of browning.

Since the Maillard reaction produces water, having a high water activity
environment inhibits the reaction.

See also
  a.. Baking
External links
  a.. Course website on Maillard reaction
http://www.agsci.ubc.ca/courses/fnh/410/colour/3_82.htm
- --------------------------------

For those with a desire to dig deeper, bedtime reading may be found at:

- --Yaylayan, V. and Kaminsky, E. Isolation and structural analysis of Maillard
polymers: caramel and melanoidin formation in glycine/glucose model system.
Food Chemistry, v. 63, 1998, pp. 25-31.

- --Yaylayan, V. and Keyhani, A. Application of microwave-assisted process
 (MAP) and Py-GC-MS to the analysis of Maillard reaction products,
in Flavor Analysis -Developments in isolation and characterization,
M.J. Morella and C. Mussinan, eds, ACS Symposium Series No 705,
American Chemical Society, Washington, DC, 1998, pp. 223-232.

- --Yaylayan, V. and Keyhani, A. The origin and fate of a -dicarbonyls formed
 in Maillard model systems: mechanistic studies using 13C- and
15N-labeled amino acids, in The Maillard Reaction in Foods and Medicine,
J. O'Brien, H. E. Nursten, M. J. Crabbe and J. Ames, eds, Royal Society
of Chemistry, Cambridge, UK, 1998, pp. 51-56.

- --Yaylayan, V., Keyhani, A. and Huyghues-Despointes, A. Generation and the
fate of C2, C3, and C4 reactive fragments formed in Maillard model systems of
[13C]glucose and [13C]glycine or proline, in Process induced chemical changes
in food, F. Shahidi, C-T Ho and N. Chuyen, eds, Plenum Press, New York,
Advances in Experimental Medicine and Biology, v. 434, 1998, pp. 237-244.

- --------------------------------

I would add that more than oxidation of sugar as defined in the above first
reference, IMHO caramelization is a dehydration of the carbohydrates which
generates many unsaturated compunds which can lead to colored compounds
(perhaps but not necessarily via oxidation) , polymerization ( as you know
from
the viscosity changes in caramel which you make it from sugar) and that
caramel taste. The cooks among us know that caramelization can take pleace at
the bottom of a boiling kettle where the amount of oxygen is extremely
limited. The ultimate product of a caramelization reaction is carbon and why
they invented Chore-Boy in addition to being useful as a hop filter for
homebrewers.

Also, I believe many years ago I learned that a by-product of a Maillard
reaction is caramel.You will notice that even in this above explanation of a
Maillard reactions ( which tries to distinguish caramel from Maillard
products), the "caramel" produced by the reaction of milk sugars and milk
proteins produce what is called a "caramel" and has nothing to do with the
high temperature formation of dehydrated sugar caramel.

It should be no surprise that I ( and a lot of other cooks and brewers)
believe this Maillard reaction is a major pathway to the formation of caramel
and bready  flavors in beer in which the malt sugar has not been subjected to
high temperatures. I look at the Maillard reaction as just one ( relatively
low T)  pathway to the dehydration of sugar and the formation of caramel.  The
Maillard may also produce other products, as does the dehydation of sugar,
which modifies the taste profile.

Perhaps the confusion lies in what is the definition of caramel or the failure
to recognize two separate pathways to the same basic rich flavor.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




















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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:32:14 -0800 (PST)
From: "Todd K." <toddk63 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Aeration stone cleaning 

<<I have an aeration stone that I havent used for a
while, and it seems to be clogged. I have tried both
PBW and BLC and no go.What is the best way to get it
into working order? Also could I use this stone to
carbonate with now that I am kegging, I do believe it
is a .2 micron stone, If I cant use it what size do
others use?     Thanks     Quinn >>

I had a similar problem after I let my stone (an
aquarium stone) sit for a couple of years.  I found
that soaking it in 90% isopropyl alcohol for a few
minutes did the trick. Vodka or 70% Isopropyl may work
as well.  I think we just want to soak it in something
with a low surface tension.

Todd K.


		


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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:31:07 -0500
From: Russ.Hobaugh at erm.com
Subject: London Breweries

Jim, I would highly recommend Young's which is about a 10-15 minute walk 
from the tube (can't remember which station to get off though). Most 
tourist maps will have it marked on there. Your other option is to get a 
hold of a CAMRA guide that rates the pubs near where you will be staying. 
Since it seemed like there was a pub or bar on every corner, I just tried 
as many as I could when I was over there! This was hit or miss as some had 
great beer, others didn't. What I found odd was that many of the pubs will 
not serve food, so be prepared.

Russ Hobaugh

Goob Dog Brewery, Birdsboro PA


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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:35:25 -0500
From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com
Subject: Lazy man's (or woman's) apple cider

This is probably not a new topic for many, but with a slight
twist.  We discovered Costco recently and was able to buy
preservative free cider.  We also noticed that good old
Motts now makes prevervative free cider from concentrate and
juice.  They are now pasteurized.  We just happened to have
2 kegs in the chiller; one with an ale and one with a pilsner
yeast.  We shook the kegs a little to raise a little yeast
into the beer and took off about a 1/4 cup of beer.  We added
this to a gallon bottle of apple cider (removed a cup or so for air 
space) and put on an airlock.  
    After about 3 to 4 days we
tasted it and it was a great clean slightly carbonated apple
cider.  We then put on the screw cap (jugs are the normal
plastic bottles), put them in the frig. and we have been
drinking lots of nicely carbonated cider.  The cider from
Costco (Martinelli's)which unfortunately, they don't have 
anymore, was clear and beautiful.  But the Mott's with either
ale or lager beer/yeast added, was also surprising good and 
refreshing with no off flavors.  When we want more cider we
just poor new juice on the lees or yeast keg left in the 
bottle. No yeast culturing, yeast nutrients, finings, or
camden tablets.

Andy Kligerman in Hillsborough, NC



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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:38:06 +0000
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpumonkey at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wine Country

William writes:
>Dave Larsen writes about his wine country tour.  I would like further info.
>on how he set up the appointments with the smaller wineries.  I tried
>personal e-mail but it failed.  Dave, feel free to e-mail me directly.

When we put together the list of wineries to visit, we originally had a much 
larger list.  We were not able to set up appointments for all of them.

As far as contacting the wineries goes, there is no magic bullet; it depends 
on the winery.  Some will get back to you right away, while others you have 
to work on a bit to set up an appointment.  However, we found that if they 
were not eager to get back to you, they were pretty quickly dropped from the 
list.

For most of them, we contacted them by phone.  They are businesses and are 
listed in the yellow or business white pages.  In addition, most of them 
have websites with contact information and directions how to get there.  In 
fact, that is the best resource to contact a winery.

Some will call you the day before to confirm, I assume because they get a 
lot of no-shows.   As a result, it is good to have a cell phone handy.

A cell phone is also useful in case you get lost.  Many of them are on back 
roads and it is easy to get turned around.   Be warned, though, that cell 
service gets pretty iffy on those back roads.

When we put together our list, we staggered wineries where we had to set up 
an appointment with ones where we didn't need one.   That gave us the 
flexibility we needed to get to an appointment on time.

If you are late, early, or have to cancel, call ahead.  The small family 
wineries, in particular, are businesses with very few employees who are 
often quite busy, and they have taken time out of their day to visit with 
you.  Be courteous of their time.

That is pretty much it.  Good luck.

Dave
Tucson, AZ




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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:58:54 -0800
From: "Jim Mccrillis" <gymemaq at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: WL Edinburgh

John Misrahi asks about WL Edinburgh yeast being a slow fermenter.  
Yes John, it can be.  A temperature closer to 70 will be helpful, also
be sure to pitch a good starter, at least a 1/2 gallon.  With those
conditions
it can really give you a good fermentation.  Hope this helps. 


Jim McCrillis
gymemaq at earthlink.net




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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:07:28 -0600
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Bruheat thermostat

Is there anyplace that sells the thermostat device? I have a bruheat but I
think the controller died today...I tried the reset switch, nothing..It just
stopped in the middle of a boil :-(

John Misrahi
Montreal, Canada





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