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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Wine Country ("Lau, William T")
  link of the week - NorthernBrewer forums (bob.devine)
  Luxury of Craft Brews (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Aeration stone cleaning ("quinn meneely")
  Diaectyl rest for ales? ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  WL Edinburgh a slow fermenter?? ("John Misrahi")
  Re: I want more Malt Flavor! ("-S")
  London Breweries/Pubs (Jim Liddil)
  Re: Seefahrtsbier - curiouser and curiouser ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")


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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:40:37 -0500
From: "Lau, William T" <william.lau at astrazeneca.com>
Subject: Wine Country

Dave Larsen writes about his wine country tour.  I would like further info.
on how he set up the appointments with the smaller wineries.  I tried
personal e-mail but it failed.  Dave, feel free to e-mail me directly.

Bill Lau
Operations Supervisor
AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals LP
587 Old Baltimore Pike
Newark, DE 19702
Phone 302-286-4948
Fax     302-286-3126
william.lau at astrazeneca.com





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Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:59:01 +0000
From: bob.devine at att.net
Subject: link of the week - NorthernBrewer forums

A very active homebrewer discussion forum is hosted
by Northern Brewer (I have no association with it).

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/index.php

Bob Devine


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Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:23:17 -0500
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Luxury of Craft Brews

CBSer Frank Patino sent a link to the following article on 
microbreweries:
http://lexus.msn.com/id/2074206/sid/2097342?GT1=6132
Not particularly informative or insightful (wouldn't get huge karma on 
Slashdot) but it's interesting to see such things published in such 
contexts.

In fact (been meaning to post something about this for a while), there 
seems to be an increase in mindshare for quality beer in general. Our 
personal perspectives might be skewed by the fact we all happen to like 
good beer, but the idea of "better beer" does seem to make its way into 
the "general public." Difficult to assess, and it's not the goal of the 
exercise, but something's going on.

In fact, there seems to be some kind of a social, fluid, organic, 
informal, acephalous, grassroots movement for "Better Beer" in the US 
and elsewhere (Canada, Australia, Western Europe). This "movement" 
involves such wonderful people as ourselves, homebrewers, along with 
"specialty beer aficionados," beer importers, "lifestyle" journalists, 
pub owners, and, of course, craft brewers. CAMRA in the UK is part of 
it and are probably the most obvious "activist" part. But there are 
many parts to this movement and direct activism is only one.
One very interesting part of this is that competition *within* the 
movement isn't very important. What's more important is for this 
movement to overcome "macros" so that having another brewpub in the 
same city or getting a liquor store to import more beer isn't too much 
of a threat to anyone else involved. To a certain extent, the more 
participants in this movement, the better it is for the movement as a 
whole. In a large city (e.g. Montreal ;->), the presence of several 
brewpubs may in fact mean more patrons for each brewpub. People who 
care about beer tend not to be very faithful to a given place anyway 
and diversity does help. For some people, this might seem 
counterintuitive but just think of the Starbucks phenomenon. True, 
they've stole a lot of patrons from local coffee shop and they're much 
hated for that (and many other reasons). But it's rather strange that 
more than one Starbucks can thrive in a very limited area, sometimes 
right across from each other. IANAEconomist but there's surely a lot of 
literature on this.
Even the Brewmaster game seems to grasp part of this principle. The 
threat isn't really from other players (representing other craft 
brewers) but from macros. There's a level of competition, similar to 
that of beer shows, but it's rather friendly.
So maybe the concept is that of friendly and healthy competition. Don't 
crush your competitor, increase the market together.

Specifically for beer, the important thing here might be the change in 
perception. While wine might still be consider the main "luxury drink" 
in the US and some other places, beer is clearly getting a much better 
reputation. As this goes on, more people are getting into better beer, 
including people who were put off by macro brews. There's even an added 
dimension of snobism in some cases, in the sense that actual snobs may 
now find beer they're not ashamed to drink publicly!

This is certainly a most interesting period in the history of beer. 
Randy Mosher's /Radical Brewing/ connects to it (can't wait to finish 
it) and homebrewing is certainly a big part of this. Granted, there 
might be less active homebrewers now than there were a few years ago, 
at the height of the HB explosion. But homebrewing now benefits from an 
incredible amount of accumulated knowledge (thanks in no small part to 
the HBD), some neat new gadgets, and good quality supplies.
So, let's pat ourselves in the back and encourage our local craft 
brewers, importers, specialty beer aficionados, and beer journalists!
:-)

AleX in South Bend, IN
[129.7mi, 251.5] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:07:07 -0600
From: "quinn meneely" <qmeneely at hotmail.com>
Subject: Aeration stone cleaning

I have an aeration stone that I havent used for a while, and it seems to be 
clogged. I have tried both PBW and BLC and no go.What is the best way to get 
it into working order? Also could I use this stone to carbonate with now 
that I am kegging, I do believe it is a .2 micron stone, If I cant use it 
what size do others use?     Thanks     Quinn




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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:02:40 +1030
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Diaectyl rest for ales?

I'm currently brewing a brew each of ale with Wyeast 1187 Ringwood Ale
Yeast and Wyeast 1968 ESB Ale yeast.  The Wyeast product list
(http://www.wyeastlab.com/beprlist.htm) states for 1968:

  Diacetyl production is noticeable and a thorough rest; 50-70&deg; F,
  (10-21&deg; C) is necessary.

There are similar comments for 1187.

But what does that mean?  I know of diacetyl rests for lagers, but a
rest over a span of 11&deg; seems difficult to understand.  How long?
Should the temperature vary?  If it doesn't, what's the difference
between secondary fermentation at 20&deg; and a diacetyl rest at
20&deg;?  My guess is that this statement means "vary temperature from
10 to 21" (or the other way round).  But over what period of time?
Any input would be welcome.  FWIW, I did the entire fermentation of
both at 20&deg; (see http://www.lemis.com/grog/brewing/brew-48.html
for more details).

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 09:58:07 -0600
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: WL Edinburgh a slow fermenter??

Has anyone here found White Labs Edinburgh yeast to work at a snail's pace
(or slightly 
slower)?? 


I pitched a tube of it maybe 3 weeks or a month ago into an ESB..the gravity

was 1.046 . It took a week to go down to 1.012. I had skimmed some yeast and

gave it to my friend, which he pitched into a strong scotch ale..I think it 
was chugging for 2 weeks. I repitched some as well into a scottish ale 
(1.052) this past monday. As of friday it, was only down to 1.030! Holy cow!
4 
days to drop only 22 points?? 


I took a sanitized brew spoon and gently stirred the krausen back in, it's 
quite the top cropper and i was wondering if maybe the yeast is not in 
sufficient contact with the wort? (does that make sense??) 


I have it fermenting at about 65..I know they recommend that as the minimum 
temperature...should I warm it up? 



John 







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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:32:49 -0500
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: I want more Malt Flavor!

Brendan McGinn says,

> I want more Malt Flavor!
And we all do at times.

We should define what we are talking about.   "Malty" by definition
describes the flavor of barley malt, tho' this requires some qualification.
Unsprouted barley is just 'grainy' in flavor and even the germinated barley
grains have only a grainy, vegetal, soluble starchy character which isn't
all that attractive.    The flavor magic begins as the chitted barley is
dried and moves to high pitch as high temp kilning takes place ... something
called 'Maillard reactions' are the force behind what we typically describe
as 'malty flavor'.

There is a lot of homebrew misinformation and broken terminlogy about
Maillard reactions and we haven't time to sort it all out today, a short
description will have to do.   Maillard reactions aren't some simple direct
and fully explicable reaction like the cracking of starch by alpha-amylase.
Instead it describes a large interacting set of reactions between many
'sets' of related chemicals.  LC Maillard, a French chemist, suggested the
outline of this system of reactions in 1912, and even today the system is
not fully 'proven', and new books on aspects of Maillard reactions appear
most every year, here almost a century later.   In any case the basics are
that amino acids and 'sugars' can be heated to form a myriad of chemical
products, which happen to have a very wide range of flavor and aroma
characteristics.

A number of years ago Charlie Scandrett and I posted voluminously on the
topic of Maillard reaction products and (when it is up) Charlie's posts
appear in 'The Brewery' secion at hdb.org.  The specific flavors/aroma
produced as minor constituents of the Maillard products range from malty, to
maple syrup flavor, to bread crust, to the oddly mellow flavors found in a
zambaglione and many others.   The specific flavors and aromas produced are
dependent on many factors, but the specific sugars and especially the
specific amino acids are key to the flavor.  The rate and relative
composition are dependent on pH of the heated mix, and extremely dependent
on temperature.   Very little Maillard flavor product is produced below 70C,
a significant amount at 100C, and a much greater peak appears around
120C-140C.  This is of course a gross generalization.  Despite the high
temps, the presence of *small* amounts of water at least greatly increases
the rate of production of Maillard flavor products, and may be necessary for
the flavor production.

Some of the ancilliary reactions that confuse the picture and terminology
are caramelization (which only involves sugars, and possibly free nitrogen)
and also the creation of darkly colored, but flavor inactive melanoidins.
The whole issue of Maillard reaction is sometimes referred to as 'browning
reactions', but there are many non-Maillard browning reactions.  I regularly
read about Maillard reactions a the cause of roast meat color and flavor,
but there are actually a lot of amino-fatty acid browning reactions that
dominate that arena - and the near absence of sugars explains why this is
not Maillard.  There are a lot of non-Maillard pyrolysis (literally
'burning') processes which cause browning (and blackening) and are largely
responsible for roast flavors.

So what's the issue in brewing ?   IMO 95+% of all malt flavor is produced
in the maltsters kiln, and very little at the brewery.  You can easily see
why this is so - as the brewery rarely acheives temps above 100C(boiling)
and the amounts of water in the mash & wort are far too high to get much
reaction.   Typical brewing produces virtually no additional malt flavor
beyond that present in the malt.  The exceptions is in the thick decoction
boil where a little malt flavor is certanly formed, tho' even more caramel
flavor.

The picture with malts varieties is pretty clear-cut.   All malts have some
amount of malty-flavor and Maillard products.   Light colored pale-ale malts
and lager malts have relatively little.  Caramel and crystal malts are
processed in a way which creates more free sugars and at lower kiln temps so
high levels of caramel flavor.  Caramel & crystal do usually contain more
malty flavor than many light malts, but their flavor is dominated by
caramelized sugars which largley persist into  the beer.   Brown and black
roast malts are first dried and then pyrrolized to produce dominant roast
flavors - with chocolate malt there is at least some balance between  roast
and malty Maillard flavors.  The malts which contain high levels of classic
'malt flavor' as their dominant feature are Vienna, Munich and Melanoidin
malts.  These are all processed in a way that makes the presence of free
amino acids relatively high, and these are then kilned at temperatures and
moisture levels than bring out the Maillard products.   Vienna, Munich and
Melanoidin are progressively darker and more flavorful versions; however
there is a clear change in the flavor mix as the malt darkens.   Vienna and
most Munich malts have sufficient enzyme levels to self-convert.

Brewers can damage and even lose the malt flavors present in their wort.
Oxidation damage will reportedly damage malt flavor and I suspect that's the
reason that extract malt flavor was so poor in the bad-old-days when I used
extract.   This situation with extract flavor seems to have improved in
recent years based on other's beers I've tasted.    Also some yeasts clearly
enhance the malt character of beers while others seem to detract a bit.-
read the descriptions or post a question and choose accordingly.  Another
factor in all-grain malt flavor is the sparge.    Several amateur studies
and my own experience show that late runnings detract  from malt flavors of
the wort and that removing the sparge(no sparge brewing), or at least
limiting it
improves malt flavor quite considerably.

==

As for practical advice .... there are some munich and vienna style malt
extracts which would be my first suggestion for a nextract brewer.   Some HB
APA recipes use extremely high levels of vienna and munich malt, tho' I'd
suggest you start with about 25% - 33% or so of vienna or munich replacing
some pale extract.  These malts (I don't know about extract) will provide
some sweetness, so cut back on that crystal.  Absolute crystal levels are
certainly a matter of personal taste, but keep crystal malt extract levels
in check.  I find crystal/caramel malt levels above 10% can be oppressively
heavy and sweet and 3% to 7% about right for a session beer.

Another approach to capturing malt flavor without switching to all-grain
brewing is partial-mash brewing.  I'm no expert on the topic, but it seems
to involve doing a mash temp cycles on a modest amount of malt
in a mesh sack and is said to provide a significant flavor improvement.   Al
Kozonas wrote a very good book covering partial mash techniques a few years
back.

 -SteveA



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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:59:44 -0500
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at liddil.com>
Subject: London Breweries/Pubs

I am going to be in London and wanted to know about either pubs or 
breweries that might be worth while visiting.  I won't have a car so 
anything that is not off the Tube won't be doable.  Also looking for pubs 
with decent food.

Jim


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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:55:57 +1030
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Seefahrtsbier - curiouser and curiouser

On Wednesday,  9 February 2005 at  5:17:33 +0000, bob.devine at att.net wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who helped with my German translation or
> looked for more information about the Seefahrtsbier style.
>
> Groggy discovered a link that described the beer as alcohol free
> and he suggests that it might be akin to drinking wort.
> Marty found some information that Seefahrtsbier is somehow
> used to fight scurvy.  Dr. Udo Kraushaar wrote directly to
> me that he checked the Bremer Ratskeller but it turned out
> that it is sells wine, not beer, and didn't know anything
> about it.  Darn.
>
> There are some inconsistencies in the story.  What self-respecting
> sailor would bother with a non-alcohol beer?

One who is participating in a ceremony, I would assume.

> Especially at what is presumably an important annual celebration?
> It is conceivable that a very young beer would be used as a change
> of pace, most other cultures use a non- or low-alcohol beer for
> children and mothers (see malta).

Young beers don't have significantly less alcohol, unless they have
only just started fermenting.

> And where does the anti-scurvy characteristic come from?  Might
> there be an adjunct to increase vitamin C?

There certainly wouldn't be an adjunct in German beer.  Some
lactobacilli create vitamin C (think Sauerkraut), but it doesn't sound
to me like that's the answer.  My guess here is that there is no
particular ascorbic function in the beer.  How many people do you see
with scurvy nowadays?

> An uncommon German beer is/was brewed with a non-attenuative yeast.
> The ludwigii yeast in a Ludwig Malz bier produces a sweet, malty
> beer.  Might this be the same?

My guess is that the "beer" has changed completely since the days when
it was a real beer, and that what we have now is just a quaint old
tradition.  Note that most North German beer types died out over 100
years ago when Bavaria forced their view of beer purity on the whole
of Germany.  Also, if the stuff was any good, they'd drink it more
often than just once a year at a ceremony.

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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