---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

                  Beer, Beer, and More Beer
      Visit http://morebeer.com to show your appreciation!

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  tubing (leavitdg)
  Yeast, Oxygenation (Ken Schramm)
  Bottles from Kegs ("May, Jeff")
  RE: Brewing 5 Gals is a 10 Gal System ("Ronald La Borde")
  RE: Power Sparging ("Ronald La Borde")
  RE: Oxygenation and yeast ("Ronald La Borde")
  Re: Brewing 5 Gals is a 10 Gal System (David Radwin)
  re: Not Oxygenating Wort (David Radwin)
  Re: Brewing 5 Gals in a 10 Gal System ("Mike Lowe")
  Re: Power Sparging (Todd Goodman)
  Re: Sulfurous yeasts (Signalbox Brewery)
  CARBOY Shamrock Open Results ("Mike Dixon")
  Pex tubing (Ralph Link)
  Re: Where is everybody? And a wort oxygenation question... ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*           The HBD Logo Store is now open!             *
*            http://www.hbd.org/store.html              *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*  Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*   Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 06:06:33 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: tubing

I have also run across "thermoplastic" tubing.  In Williams Brewing's latest 
mailing: "will withstand temps up to 275F".

 ..Darrell




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:13:16 -0500
From: Ken Schramm <schramk at mail.resa.net>
Subject: Yeast, Oxygenation   

I am struck by a few differences between the winemakers and brewers in
their approach to these yeast issues.  There may be many reasons for the
disparities in practices, most notably the starting gravity, nutrient
levels and sugar make-up of the fermentable, but I'm not sure those can
account for all of the differences.

Winemakers regularly "pump over" for days at the start of the
fermentation, some even in open fermentations.  That exposes their must
to high oxygen levels (not 20 ppm, I'm sure, but far greater than a
stock closed fermentation).  

Clayton has commented that a certain level of aerobic lipid
accumulation/cell wall growth/reproduction will occur in fermentation
until all O2 is depleted.  He has recommended oxygenation of mead musts
as late as four days after pitching.  (I understand that this is a
result of much higher OG.)  That is in line with the pumping over
practice of winemakers.  Since red winemakers also press (and oxygenate
pretty substantially) several days after the fermentation has passed
into an anaerobic mode, that anaerobic O2 absorption behavior is very important.

It is also pretty well documented that certain strains of wine yeast
will have different O2 handling capabilities and FAN demands.  This
pretty substantially alters the fermentation practice followed for those
strains.  I would expect that to be true of various lager and ale
strains, but I don't see any indication in the discussion here that
consideration or accommodation is made depending on strain.  Is that the
case with O2 practices for specific ale or lager strains? 

The optimal situation (in terms of yeast pop health/lack of off flavors
and aromatics) appears to be to have the available O2 and nutrient
levels expended just as the yeast moves from budding into anaerobic
activity.  Given that we usually don't know the yeast population in
cells/ml of our starters, and the resulting level of repro that will
take place until the switch from aerobic to anaerobic takes place, how
does one calculate this at a typical homebrew length and starting gravity?

Any clarification would be welcome.

Thanks,
Ken Schramm


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:58:54 -0500
From: "May, Jeff" <Jeff.May at uscellular.com>
Subject: Bottles from Kegs

I have been kegging for about 5 years now, but this weekend was the first
time
I ever tried to bottle my kegged brew.  I wanted a gift for my father's 60th

birthday next week.  I have spent the last few months tinkering with a
Counter
Pressure Bottle Filler (CPBF) that I have constructed based on the many
various
designs available on our beloved HBD.  I went with a 2 valve design with a
bleeder.   I found that this thing appeared more like a medieval torture
device
than a brew gadget.  And when all the hoses were attached it had a vague
resemblance to something from a bad alien horror flick.  Foregeddaboudet!

So I decided to try 10" of tubing shoved into a cobra faucet.  It worked
like a
champ!  I can't emphasize how easy it was.  My keg was really cold and
slightly
over carbonated.  I chilled by bottles and cobra tubing assembly.  Filled a
bottle. Tapped the bottle to foam if needed, and capped on the foam.
Instant
bottled beer!  No sediment, no conditioning.  I bottled a 12 pack in only 5
minutes. I had a little trouble keeping my fill levels consistent, but this
will
improve with practice.

Simple is Better
Jeff May
Wilmington, NC
AR [649.7, 148.6]


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:42:04 -0600
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Brewing 5 Gals is a 10 Gal System

>From: "Meeker, James P FC1 (Monterey)" <meekerj at monterey.navy.mil>
>
>So my question is, is there
>anything I need to be concerned about if I brew 5 gallon batches in a
10
>gallon system for a while?

Yes, running out of beer!
Sorry, I can't help myself. :>))

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:01:45 -0600
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Power Sparging

>From: Craig Agnor <cagnor at pmc.ucsc.edu>
>
>Can I pump the sweet liquor directly from the mash tun to the kettle
>(at the same level)?

Sure, take a look at my brewing setup:
www.hbd.org/rlaborde

>Are their any caveats, drawbacks or limitations to actively pumping
>wort from the grain bed into the kettle ('power sparging')?

Be carefull to avoid grain bed compaction. Just pump at a low enough
speed. Avoid air bubbles.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:11:33 -0600
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Oxygenation and yeast

>From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
>
>I typically use strips of wood
>about 1/4 in in height. Sometimes a ringstand for stability.

Dave, I often wondered If I was the only one that tried to minimize
heat from the stirrer. I have used two or three beer coasters as
insulators, easy, and seem to help a lot.

>Turn on the
>stirrer so that I get some air entrainment ( but no splashing)

Really, hmm, I stir like a crazed loony. Is this bad????

>If you are starting with  a small amount of yeast it is
>a good idea to let this starter finish out the sugar ( Clinitest),
settle the
>yeast, Let it settle in a cool place

Is this at room temperature, or do you chill between each feeding, and
what would be the effects?

Could you please detail some of your yeast rinsing methods, I have
always had problems here - seems like I throw away a lot of yeast.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 10:17:48 -0800
From: David Radwin <dradwin at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Brewing 5 Gals is a 10 Gal System

> is there
> anything I need to be concerned about if I brew 5 gallon batches in a 10
> gallon system for a while?


I've done this on occasion and the only issue I've encountered is that 
my homemade immersion chiller (50 ft. of 1/2 in. copper tubing, I think) 
is not completely submerged in the wort when there's only five gallons. 
That means a little loss of efficiency but nothing major.

Brewing 10 gallon batches is a great idea, so long as you don't try to 
lift it all at once. You get 100% more beer for 10-20% more time and 
effort.

If you continue to use your 5 or 6 gallon fermenters, you can do casual 
experiments as well. For example, try using different yeasts on each 
half batch, oxygenate one half batch and don't oxygenate the other, or 
prime one half batch with table sugar and the other half batch with corn 
sugar, wort, or DME. (5 gallon brewers can also do split-batch 
experiments, of course, but it's usually less efficient in terms of 
space and effort to split 5 gallons across two or more fermenters.)

David in Berkeley CA
replies to news at DavidRadwin.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:47:27 -0800
From: David Radwin <dradwin at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: re: Not Oxygenating Wort

FYI, Pyramid Brewing in Berkeley CA says they oxygenate their wort as 
well. If you haven't heard of Pyramid, you probably live east of the 
Rockies.

David in Berkeley CA
replies to news at davidradwin.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:24:13 -0800
From: "Mike Lowe" <mlowe97 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing 5 Gals in a 10 Gal System

James Meeker asks

>I want to get a system that will grow with me but I'm not sure I want to 
>brew 10 gallon batches >yet.

An easy and inexpensive way to migrate from extract to all-grain brewing 
would be to use a cooler based system.  When I made the jump I purchased two 
10 Gal Igloo Ice Cube coolers, some copper tubing for a manifold and some 
hardware for about $50.  This in conjunction with a Turkey Fryer got me to 
all grain for $100.  This works great unless you want to brew really big 
beers.  After you have a few batches under your belt you may want to 
increase the size of your coolers and boil kettle.  Or, you may decide to 
move up to a rack mounted stainless setup.  Regardless, you still got 
started for only $100.

Dave asks

>I am looking for hose/tubing that will handle hi temps for my brewing

Beer, Beer & More Beer carries the high temp silicon tubing but I'm not sure 
of the pressure rating.  But I'm sure they can get that for you.

HTH,

Mike in SoCal



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:11:55 -0500
From: Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net>
Subject: Re: Power Sparging

* In HBD #4738, Craig Agnor <cagnor at pmc.ucsc.edu> wrote:
> Can I pump the sweet liquor directly from the mash tun to the kettle
> (at the same level)?   It seems like this would speed up the process
> considerably.  Are any of you out there using a similar procedure or
> run into problems doing this?

I runoff into a grant (buckets) and then pump from there into the
kettle.

I wouldn't pump directly from the outlet of your lauter tun as you're
likely to create a suction and compact the grain bed...

The grant also allows you to pull the wort a hair above the bottom and
leave any grain particles/husk that gets through your grain bed
behind...

Todd


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 13:51:15 +0000
From: Signalbox Brewery <signalbox.brewery at ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Sulfurous yeasts

Jeff Renner put my mind at rest re Southwold:

 >> White Labs have discontinued Southwold yeast because of low sales:
 > If you can get an order together for 40 vials, WhiteLabs will produce 
them.
 > That is a tall order, of course, but maybe you can get your UK mates to 
go in
 > with you.

40 vials isn't out of the question. I shall have to se what other goodies
the Whites have in their banks.


 >> 1) Is a sulfur nose unpopular in the US? In the UK some of the most
 >> prized bitters exhibit it in good form (Marstons Pedigree, Adnams)

 > Probably unappreciated.  Sulfur "snatch," I think it's called, right?

Fancy that! I'm surprised that discerning US home brewers who wouldn't
dream of making a Scotch ale without peat-smoked malt don't appreciate
the almost defining characteristic of a Burton ale, but there you go!
Perhaps it's because you guys see these mostly in bottle where the
sulphur seems less noticeable. "Snatch" is technically correct,
it's a word I'd be wary of using in mixed company in the UK.


 >>2) What would brewers recommend as an alternative?
 > Lacking that, find a tame landlord who stocks Adnams and tip
 > the dregs from a cask into a clean jar and culture it up.
 > I've had luck doing this with other yeasts.

More luck than me! Must try harder.

 > Then harvest if from the fermenter and store it under sterile
 > distilled water between brews.

Dave Burley suggests to Andrej:

 > and store the yeast under this sterile water in your fridge
 > until the next brew. A capped sterilized beer bottle is
 > an excellent storage container.


You know I's somehow always thought it "had" to be a canning jar
if that's the right word. A bottle would be rather easier.
How embarrassing.

Thanks both

David Edge, Derby 



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 18:13:45 -0500
From: "Mike Dixon" <mpdixon at ipass.net>
Subject: CARBOY Shamrock Open Results

Thanks very much to all the entrants, sponsors, organizers, judges and
stewards for another excellent event.  The results can be found on the
CARBOY website
http://hbd.org/carboy/shamresult2005.htm

Cheers,
Mike Dixon
Wake Forest, NC



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:45:32 -0600
From: Ralph Link <ralphl at shaw.ca>
Subject: Pex tubing

In response to the high temp. tubing question, has anyone had any
experience using PEX in a Rims system?
Ralph
in Winnipeg
- -- 
Ralph Link <ralphl at shaw.ca>



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:16:21 +1030
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Where is everybody? And a wort oxygenation question...

On Wednesday,  9 March 2005 at 15:40:02 -0600, Dan Stedman wrote:
> Is there another homebrewing forum I should be reading? It's been
> awful quiet around here lately.

Yes, it has.  The Australian Craftbrewer's list is currently a lot
more active.  If you're looking for "more of same", you might like to
check out http://oz.craftbrewer.org/ .  Follow the "message digest"
link to sign up.  Unlike hbd, you get the option of getting messages
immediately they're sent, which makes for a more lively discussion.

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


Return to table of contents

---