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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  RE: High temp tubing (with a low-temp tubing question) (Scott McAfee)
  RE: Oxygenation and yeast (John Schnupp)
  RE: Oxygenation and yeast ("Dave Burley")
  Stuck! ("Greg R")
  RE: Bottles from Kegs ("Sajec, Mike TQO")
  diacetyl rest & bottling a lager ("Janie Curry")
  Silicone tubing/pumping sparge water (RiedelD)


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:41:01 -0500
From: Scott McAfee <scmcafee at cox.net>
Subject: RE: High temp tubing (with a low-temp tubing question)

I also use silicon for the hot liquid.  Avoid the thin walled
stuff, though.  I've been using 1/2 inch ID silicon with a
1/16" wall (5/8" OD) and it's pretty floppy.  I just bought
some 3/8" tubing with a 1/8" wall and it looks much less
prone to kinks.  I bought it to go with the 3/8" quick
disconnects I bought based on a recent HBD thread.

I also picked up some bev-a-line IV to replace the vinyl I'd
been using for cooler liquid (ie wort chiller to carboy).
Anyone have feelings about bev-a-line?  I mainly bought it
based on the following two sentances:

"Bev-A-Line IVs lower friction coefficient and excellent
chemical resistance allow easy passage of solids, alcohols,
acids, caustics and solvents. The smooth interior surface is
exceptionally resistant to the absorption of liquids providing
a neutral and stain-free environment that remains translucent"

Maybe I'll even use it for my CO2 and beerline in the kegerator.

I get all my plastics from US Plastic (more expensive than
Spencer's quote, though)

http://www.usplastic.com/ go to tubing

Spencer Thomas wrote:

Silicone tubing is the way to go.  Rated to 400F or thereabouts.
Finding it is the trick.

According to a 2003 posting:

You can buy random lengths of 3/16" ID and 1/2" ID food grade *silicone*
tubing at http://morebeer.com and a variety of diameters at
http://mcmaster.com. NAJASC.

I checked and they still have it.  $0.80 per foot.

=S




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Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:29:13 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Oxygenation and yeast

I built a stirrer out of wood, a DC motor and a magnet.  No worries about heat
using it.  

You can read about it here.  Sorry but this was one of my first html projects I
did and I've never gotten around to spiffying it up.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsbrewing/stirrer/stirrer.htm



John Schnupp, N3CNL
Blue Moon Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200


		


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Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:33:55 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: RE: Oxygenation and yeast

Ron,


Ron Laborde says:

>Dave, I often wondered If I was the only one that tried to minimize
>heat from the stirrer. I have used two or three beer coasters as
>insulators, easy, and seem to help a lot.

Sounds OK, but where do you set down your beer if you are growing yeast?
{8^)

Air is a better insulator, I believe, as eventually anything will heat up in
direct contact. Depends on the vessel but I support it above the stirrer
motor(no direct contact) with little strips of wood or with a ringstand
holding it above the stirrer motor.

>>Turn on the
>>stirrer so that I get some air entrainment ( but no splashing)

>Really, hmm, I stir like a crazed loony. Is this bad????

Well, I don't like splashed out (or splashed on cotton plug) starter as this
could build up an unwanted colony of undesirable yeast and bacteria. And
potentially lead to contamination. Stir hard enough to get air entrainment
(nice deep vortex is fine), but not crazy wild splashing.

>>If you are starting with a small amount of yeast it is
>>a good idea to let this starter finish out the sugar ( Clinitest),
settle the
>>yeast, Let it settle in a cool place

>Is this at room temperature, or do you chill between each feeding, and
>what would be the effects?

Room Temperature is OK if it is cool, or the fridge is OK for a short time.
Point is the cooler it is the less chance you get for contamination growth
while it settles out.  You will be pouring off the beer and re-feeding this
starter. Note I said if you are "starting out with a small amount of yeast"
(which means you will be doing several serial starters on this), each time
larger amounts of yeast.

>Could you please detail some of your yeast rinsing methods, I have
>always had problems here - seems like I throw away a lot of yeast.

Well, you do throw away some yeast (but you have plenty if this is from the
secondary)if you are in a hurry or if you try to get all the liquid off each
time.  Pour off the beer after the yeast is well settled (sometimes
overnight in the fridge, well covered). Try to get off as much liquid as
possible and even spill out a little yeast. (remember in the beginning some
of that stuff is fluffy protein cold break)  Using COLD, boiled (1%
tartaric acid acidified if your wish)water, pour in a volume that is about 4
 -5 times the volume of the yeast. Allow it to settle about 1/2 hour (esp if
you used 1% tartaric acid solution, no longer and keep it cold) and pour off
the majority of the water, just until yeast begins to come off. Repeat total
three washings. You can use pH paper as an indicator if you use tartaric
acid and rinse until at least about 5.5 pH, 6+ is better. Put into a beer
bottle and add cold boiled water and cap. Put in the refrigerator until you
need it again and be sure to wake it up with a starter.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley







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Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:32:07 -0600
From: "Greg R" <gmrbrewer at hotmail.com>
Subject: Stuck!

After eight years of happy homebrewing, I am confronted with my first stuck 
fermentation.  The yeast I am using is WLP 007 Dry British Ale, using a half 
quart slurry of yeast from an earlier batch, aerating as usual with a 
venturi tube from the kettle to the primary.  The stuck batch is an Imperial 
IPA, which started at 1.083 and is now at 1.025 after about three weeks in 
the primary, the first week of which was a typical furious fermentation.  
Some yeast continues to collect on the surface and the airlock is still 
popping a couple times a minute.

When I went to rack the beer this weekend, I was shocked to see as high a 
gravity reading as I did, particulary since I did so many things to 
encourage higher attenuation.  I used re-pitched yeast, extended primary 
fermentation in the mid to high 60s, a step mash at 145F and 156F, a thinner 
mash of 1.5 qts./lb., and only 2.5% crystal in my recipe.  The only thing I 
know I skipped was making a yeast starter, which has never been necessary 
for me when re-pitching.

So now I have about 70% attenuation, not terrible but I wanted to finish 
about 10 points lower, requiring about 80% attenuation.  I already added a 
packet of rehydrated dry ale yeast to the primary and it has not shown any 
sign of activity.  Should I try adding more of the same yeast, or a 
champagne yeast?  Any other suggestions out there to help get the gravity 
lower?

Cheers,

Greg



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Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:07:40 -0800
From: "Sajec, Mike TQO" <msajec at tqs.com>
Subject: RE: Bottles from Kegs

Jeff,

I couldn't agree more.  Counter Pressure Fillers are Not Necessary.  

They keys to filling from a keg are:

1) Make sure that your keg & beer are reasonable cold
1) Chill the bottles
2) Drop the keg pressure (~3psi) for a slow fill
3) Insert tubing, or a bottle filling pipet that will fit snugly into
keg faucet
4) Fill the bottles... I fill mine nearly all the way to the top.  There
really isn't any need to leave head space.

In fact I've experimented with filling chilled bottles straight from my
faucet without using any tubing to see if there would be any noticable
oxidation with time.  My last bottle made it 3 months and did not have
any noticable oxidation character.



>>Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:58:54 -0500
>>From: "May, Jeff" <Jeff.May at uscellular.com>
>>Subject: Bottles from Kegs

>>....tinkering with a Counter Pressure Bottle Filler (PBF) that I have
constructed 
>>based on the many various designs available on our beloved HBD.  
>>I went with a 2 valve design with a bleeder.   I found that this thing
appeared more like 
>>a medieval Torture device than a brew gadget.  And when all the hoses
were attached it had 
>>a vague resemblance to something from a bad alien horror flick.
Foregeddaboudet!

>> So I decided to try 10" of tubing shoved into a cobra faucet.  It
worked like a champ!  
>> I can't emphasize how easy it was.  My keg was really cold and
slightly over carbonated.  
>> I chilled by bottles and cobra tubing assembly.  Filled a bottle.
Tapped the bottle to foam 
>> if needed, and capped on the foam. Instant bottled beer!  No
sediment, no conditioning.  I 
>> bottled a 12 pack in only 5 minutes. I had a little trouble keeping
my fill levels consistent, 
>> but this will improve with practice.





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Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:17:07 +0000
From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com>
Subject: diacetyl rest & bottling a lager

I've read that lagers should be raised to 68F for 24 to 48 hrs for a 
diacetyl rest.  When done with the "rest", do you put the carboy back in 
fridge at 52F and then start lowering the temps by a couple degrees per day 
or do you start lowering each day from 68F?

When do you bottle?  At 68F and then lager in the bottle or after it has 
reached 34F and lagered for a week or so?

What temp do you hold the bottles at for carbonation?  Will they carbonate 
at 34F?

Todd in Fort Collins



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Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:49:51 -0800
From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Subject: Silicone tubing/pumping sparge water

While we are on the topic of silicone/high temperature tubing:

I bought silicone tubing for $0.88/foot from US Plastics.  I bought it to
use it to run from boil kettle to pump and from pump to counter-flow
chiller.  It works great for that.  I would recommend thicker-walled stuff
though as the thin-walled (3/8 id, 1/2 od) kinks easily.

The problem I'm having is with hot sparge water.  I'd like to pump hot
sparge water from ground level up to my sparge tank at a height of about 3.5
feet.  I'm having trouble with air in the line.  I wondered if the source
was air in the water breaking out of solution as the water is brought to
around 165-170F without being boiled.  Not boiling is the difference between
the wort which pumps just fine, and the sparge water which does not.  The
air in the water line eventually builds up in the pump until it cavitates
and stops moving the water.

**Does anyone else have trouble pumping hot sparge water?

While reading Raj B Apte's sour-ale web-site, I spotted the following:
(table clipped)

Material			Oxygen Permeability
			(cc-mm/m2-day, 23C)
Wood, Oak	 			57
High-density polyethylene HDPE 	18
Vinyl 					20
Silicone 				10600

Whoa.  That's a heck of a big number for silicone.  In addition, it's at
23C.  I'm talking about closer to 80C for my sparge water and an
increasingly worrisome 95+C for my wort.

**Does anyone have any theories on the possible oxygenation dangers of
silicone tubing on the hot side of the brewing process?  Might this porosity
issue be contributing to my sparge water problem also?

Perhaps increasing the tubing thickness might remove any concerns.

cheers,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, Canada



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