HOMEBREW Digest #4741 Thu 17 March 2005

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  DOE FG Experiement ("Dan Listermann")
  Heating Plastic (was: Igloo Cooler w/ Water Heater Element) (Alexandre Enkerli)
  RE: John Reed misc. topics ("John Ferens")
  RE: Bottling ("May, Jeff")
  Re: oxyclean for sanitation and cleaning? (Denny Conn)
  RE: Pumping Sparge water; Starter aeration; CP filling (eIS\) - Eastman" <stjones@eastman.com>
  Re: Igloo coolers as mash tun (Thom Cannell)
  Sourness in saison ("Brian Schar")
  RE: Pumping sparge water (RiedelD)
  diacetyl rest (Leo Vitt)
  Hop madness in Vancouver (Mark Tigges)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:15:06 -0500 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: DOE FG Experiement "Jeremy Lenzendorf" <jlenzendorf at ingeniumpd.com> Subject: FG experiment My question are thus: 1. I don't mind buying two cases of 1 liter swing top bottles; I'll use them again. But how can I get around buying an air lock for each one? 2. Will adding a packet of yeast to each liter sample be okay, or should I divide the initial five gallon into four parts, add the yeast and divide again into four liters? I have done a couple of DOEs with beer and feel that it could go a long way to improving recipes and methods. I wish I had more time for it. A cotton ball will sub for an air lock for your swing top bottles. This is what the biology guys use. If that makes you uneasy, cover the mouth with aluminum foil too. There is nothing wrong with adding a full packet to each bottle. I am splitting five gallon batches between five yeasts and giving each gallon a full packet. From this perspective, it is uneventful. Carry on and be sure to let us know how it turn out! Dan Listermann Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:34:03 -0500 From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu> Subject: Heating Plastic (was: Igloo Cooler w/ Water Heater Element) Anthony Cresrenzi received some answers about whether or not one can use a water heater element in an Igloo cooler. Not sure this helps Anthony specifically, but there *are* plastic boilers around (like the BruHeat, which I use), and the plastic is fine, even after long hour of boiling. The element in a BruHeat is fairly similar to a small water heater element. Of course, the "plastic buckets" used in these boilers are made of a specific grade of HDPE that can withstand those temperatures. And they're fairly thin. Thing is, such a plastic boiler keeps its temp, even when used as a mash-tun, because, well, you can heat the liquid using the element. So no need for an insulated cooler. Now, does anyone know if Rubbermaid and Co. make any kind of plastic tub which can withstand high temperatures? The BruHeat is mighty cool as both a mash-tun and a kettle but I've been thinking about getting something bigger for my mash-tun, maybe rectangular, and have a vertical spigot at the bottom as opposed to the lateral spigot of the BruHeat... Like the BruHeat, I'd "zapap" this plastic tub by drilling holes in a second one and using it as a false bottom... I'm not very handy but I think I could manage this... Slainte! AleX near Notre Dame, IN [129.7mi, 251.5] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:33:20 -0500 From: "John Ferens" <john.ferens at ansys.com> Subject: RE: John Reed misc. topics John, CPBF: I tend to agree, non-commercial CPBF units seem to be greatly overrated. I believe you will get consistently better results with bottle conditioned beers, even when submitting to a competition. When I brew, I'll typically shoot for an end result of 6+ gallons and fill directly from my conical fermenter about a dozen bottles primed with prime tabs (don't believe the 2 or 3 per bottle, my experience is more like 6 or 7 to get proper carbonation). I've used the Coopers tablets, but they tend to over carbonate; I would prefer Coopers tablets if they would only produce a slightly smaller version. The rest of the batch goes into a keg. All in all, this makes for a very simple process. Starters: Maybe it isn't common to do so, but I add O2 to my starters as well as to my wort. Frederick and others could write paragraphs on the subject but I believe the gist is simply this: yeast need O2 (among other things already present in the wort) to replicate. The purpose of a starter is to replicate yeast; ergo it makes sense to aerate the starter. I use O2 (with a stone) because I'm impatient and because it is inherently more sterile. I might use a stir plate if I had one, but would still aerate. Recipes: I think we might all be interested in whatever list you accumulate - care to share them in one central location (hbd.org?) once you compile them? Cheers! John in Pittsburgh Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:44:09 -0500 From: "May, Jeff" <Jeff.May at uscellular.com> Subject: RE: Bottling John Peed asks about oxidation from bottling without a CPBF. To answer honestly, I don't know. My beer never lasts long enough to worry about it. I don't care about competitions. I brew for fun and my friends and family enjoy my results. I used to be a gear-head. I bought and built all kinds gadgets and thingamajigs for brewing. I built 2 CPBFs, a counterflow chiller, several fancy sparge arms, etc. It was more of a PITA than it was fun. Now days I batch sparge, use an immersion chiller, force carbonate, and if I need bottles, I use a cobra faucet. So for me, simpler means I will brew more often and have more fun. It's just beer, not rocket science. Relax dude...Have a homebrew. Jeff May On the beach (Wilmington, NC) AR [649.7, 148.6] Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:24:32 -0800 From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com> Subject: Re: oxyclean for sanitation and cleaning? Andy, I've been using Oxiclean for years to clean my brewing stuff....carboys, buckets, kegs, tubing, you name it! I find it's a great, low cost, effective cleaner. I use only 1-2 scoops in 5-7 gal. of water and it works great. I've done some testing that indicates it probably does sanitize also, but why risk it? Especially since Oxiclean needs to be rinsed, and I prefer no rinse sanitizers. After cleaning with Oxiclean, I sanitize with either Iodophor or StarSan. Both of them are highly effective no rinse sanitizers. I'd rather be safe than sorry. ------------->Denny At 11:21 PM 3/16/05 -0500, you wrote: >Subject: oxyclean for sanitation and cleaning? > >I have read some conflicting opinions on Oxyclean. >Can it be used for cleaing and sanitation on beer >making equipmentsuch as kegs, carboys, or plastic >fermenters? Is it good for sanitation without any >other treatment? Presently I use 1 TBS bleach/gallon. > >Andy from Hillsborough Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:06:27 -0500 From: "Jones, Steve \(eIS\) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: RE: Pumping Sparge water; Starter aeration; CP filling Thanks for the physics lesson, Kent. But my pump bore (March hi temp) measures 3/8", not 1/2", even though it has a 1/2" MIP thread. So my 1/4" ID tubing is not as much of a difference as it appears to be. That said, however, I plan on moving up to 1/2" OD (3/8" ID) to match the pump bore size. I have throttled down the output and it does make a difference, but why can I pump wort at full speed without this phenomenon occurring? If I boiled the bejeezus out of the sparge water and cooled it to 170 before pumping will this still happen? Aerating starters: I use a stir plate, but only loosely cover it with aluminum foil. This allows gaseous exchange without creating air currents that can pull nasties into the starter, and the vortex pulls adequate O2 into the wort, much like using sanitized cotton or foam plugs. And as many others have said, you are growing yeast, not making beer. During the growth phase yeast needs lots of O2 to reproduce. As long as you decant the spent wort, you are maximizing yeast growth and not having to worry about adding off flavors to your beer. And I don't generally use airlocks in my primaries - again I use aluminum foil loosely covering the carboy opening. After I rack to secondary I will use an airlock. CP filling: Though I have no experience with longer term storage of tap filled bottles, I tend to agree with John Peed on his thoughts about them vs cp filling. I'll do it to take bottles to a meeting or a party for consumption the same or next day, but use my cp filler for longer term storage. I don't enter very many competitions any more, but nearly all the ones I have entered have been with cp filled bottles, including a BOS in John's club's last comp before they changed to a keg only comp, and 3 medalists in the NHC (1 gold/BOS, another gold, and a bronze). My 2001 winner was over a year in the bottle, and didn't receive any comments about oxidation (though some is acceptable for the style). Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN State of Franklin Homebrewers (http://hbd.org/franklin) [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] AR P.S. AHA members, be sure to vote in the Governing Committee election that is currently going on. The HBD's own Jeff Renner is up for re-election, and everyone here knows how passionate he is about homebrewing and how much he contributes to the value of this digest. I can assure you after working with him for the past 3 years that he contributes as much value to the Governing Committee as he does here, and you would surely be remiss if you don't help to send him back. And if you aren't a member, why not? Join the AHA and throw in a vote for Jeff. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:31:46 -0500 From: Thom Cannell <Thom at CannellAndAssociates.com> Subject: Re: Igloo coolers as mash tun > Anthony Cresrenzi asks about using a heater element with > an igloo cooler. Eric R. Theiner said " I don't have hard figures, but > anecdotally it seems like a bad idea. I've made two such mash tuns using either BruHeat or water heater elements. The original had no heater element and then was modified. I lent it to a pal who used gallons of boiling water to change temperature. He was successful in changing temperature, and in severely warping the cylindrical interior. I continued to use that mash tun for two years before replacing it with a new-but-similar design. So yes, you can mash in a cylindrical cooler (and I have many friends who use the large ice chest the same way.) But I am quite certain you cannot boil in it. Wrong kind of plastic. FWIW, I often apply heat and recirculate up to mash-out (and once up to 200F,) with no ill effects on the cooler walls (the 200F brown ale taught me many things about astringency and tannins...) They remain straight and unwarped to date. Thom Cannell T_Cannell near compuserve.com CannellAndAssociates also near comcast.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:33:06 -0800 From: "Brian Schar" <schar at cardica.com> Subject: Sourness in saison I am brewing a saison in a week or two. I grabbed some saison yeast from the LHBS recently when I dropped off a couple of beers for entry into a competition, before I acquired and read the new book "Farmhouse Ales." Imagine my surprise to find that saison yeast likes high temperatures (up to 90 degrees!) for fermentation. It's a little early to get that hot around here, but I can at least stick the fermenters in my garage, which does get pretty hot late in the day even in winter. "Farmhouse Ales" also notes that saison, particularly historical examples thereof, has some degree of sourness, possibly Brett. I'm not ready to introduce Brett into my brewing equipment, for fear I'll never get it out. Also, I'm not sure I want that much sourness in my saison. I'm considering doing what I've heard some folks do for Guinness clones - make a small portion of sour beer and then add it to the fermenter. I'm thinking about making up perhaps a half gallon of extract-based wort, throwing in some raw grain, letting it sit for a few days, straining out the grain and boiling up the resultant sour beer to kill any fauna therein, then adding that to my five gallons of saison. Should I just leave out the sour part altogether, for that matter? After all, the BJCP guidelines state that a "low to moderate tart sourness may be present, but should not overwhelm other flavors." Thus, sourness is something that is optionally present, not required. I'd appreciate any comments from anyone with more experience brewing this style than me. It's my first time. Thanks! Brian Schar Menlo Park, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:42:07 -0800 From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca Subject: RE: Pumping sparge water Kent (and Chad) point out that Steve and I may be pulling water vapour out of solution. A good point, but in my situation, I'm pumping wort without problem - only the sparge water has bubbles forming. So why the water and not the wort? I'm going back to my theory that the sparge water has been heated to sufficiently drive some of the air out of solution (air being less soluble in warm liquids). The difference between the sparge water and the wort is that the wort was boiled for 60 minutes and has had all (probably some 1/t type relationship) the air driven out/off. It may not be so much that the air is forming in the tubing but that it's along for the ride right out of the vessel. [Note: I'm not sure whether the bubbles are air or water vapour, or whether it matters from a physical standpoint with respect to the pump problem. Obviously, if it's air, it's an oxidation problem.] IF this is the case, the solution would seem to be to 1) pump the liquid at a lower temperature, or 2) boil it a bit to drive the bubbles off. Neither of these solutions are great. The first puts your sparge temp too low, the second is a waste of fuel (power) and time. Perhaps stirring might help, but I think it would take a lot. I'm starting to re-think my original idea to heat the sparge water with an immersion element. cheers, Dave Riedel Victoria, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:51:47 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt at yahoo.com> Subject: diacetyl rest A.J. responded to a dicetyl question: >Probably the best way to increase diacetyl without ruining the beer >otherwise is to use a diacetyl producing strain and skip the diacetyl >rest. It's my understanding that the purpose of a diacetyl rest is to REDUCE diacetyl. I use it at the end of primary fermentation of a lager. You warm up the primary fermenter to about 60F, and the yeast will reabsorb diacetyl. After the diacetyl rest, I rack to secondary and begin the temp reduction to 34-35F. Leo Vitt Sidney, NE Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:31:47 -0800 From: Mark Tigges <mtigges at shaw.ca> Subject: Hop madness in Vancouver On April 30, there will be an IPA festival in Vancouver (BC), at DIX bar. About 20 cask conditioned IPAs from around the province. In addition to this there will be a homebrew comp for IPA's. The homebrews have to be at the bar by closing on the 23rd. Judging will be on the 30th. I know there are a couple of somewhat regular posters from the lower mainland, I thought I'd post this here in case some hadn't heard about it. Here's the DIX webpage: http://www.markjamesgroup.com/restbrew/dix/dix.html It's spartan, and doesn't have any info about the IPA festival, but phone the bar and ask for Tony (he's the brewer) if you need details. You can see the flyer here: http://hbd.org/discus/messages/1/28960.html?1110336216 Mark. Vancouver (BC). Return to table of contents
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