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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: Pumping sparge water // RE: March Pump 809 issues (jeff)
  RE: Sourness in saison ("Stovall, Chris")
  Beer Can House in Houston (Bev Blackwood II)
  Beer Store in Cambridge Mass (Alan McLeod)
  diacetyl as a result of CP filling ("Chad Stevens")
  RE: pumping sparge water - some tests (RiedelD)
  MUTUAL  BENEFIT REPRESENTATIVE ("yung shun")


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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 04:48:50 -0800 (PST)
From: jeff at henze.us
Subject: RE: Pumping sparge water // RE: March Pump 809 issues

Ron provides details about his system and talks about reasons that others
may be having problems...
Ken suggests a more appropriate pump and methods for purging the air from
the system.

Ron - what kind of a pump are you using for your brewing system? Also,
what size lines are you running?  I have the same experience with aquarium
pumps - I have 4 different models of them that move a ton of water (even
with a few feet of head) and I've never had a problem with them. In fact,
one day when my sump pump went out, I hooked up one of the small pump
heads to a garden hose and pumped the water from the sump up 10 feet out
the window (it took a long time, but it worked until I got a replacement
sump the next morning).

I'm told that the pumps for beer are intentionally low volume pumps to
avoid HSA, but personally I'd rather throttle down the flow than wish it
was better.

Ken - thanks for the info, espeically about the pump size. I'm going to
swap the 1/100HP pump out on Tuesday and try to pick up a more standard
model for brewing.

I've changed the lines and fooled with my pump enough to know I'm not
sucking air into the system on the low side, and since I've tested with
cool water I know it isn't a problem with the water letting go of its
dissolved gases. I think the problem is two part - I need to go with a
more appropriate pump, and I need to develop a regimen for purging the air
from the system before mashing. The tips you and others provide for
purging should work good once I upgrade my pump.

Thanks,
- --Jeff
Canton, MI



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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:58:28 -0500
From: "Stovall, Chris" <stovall.c at thomas-hutton.com>
Subject: RE: Sourness in saison


In response Brian Schar,
I make a saison every year (O.G. 1068) in the early spring with a
"normal" fermentation temperature of 70-75 deg F and made with WL yeast.
I typically get a very good fermentation with final gravities on the low
side (1.007 to 1.010) of the style.  While I have read about the souring
from lacti is an option, I have not come across a commercial brand to
taste.  The tartness of the saison style typically comes from the
addition of bitter orange peel and saaz hops.  Once I made a summer
batch with temps in mid to upper 70's - the only difference in taste I
detected was that I used a bit more coriander in the batch on that
occasion which seemed to lead to a somewhat sweeter batch, though this
could be due to temps as well.
 -Chris Stovall




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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:55:54 -0600
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: Beer Can House in Houston

Peter asks:

> Have any Texan HBD'ers seen this place?

I had the pleasure of writing an article on this house for the 
Southwest Brewing News, so yes, I have seen it!  Inside, it's pretty 
normal, but the outside is totally covered in cut apart beer cans and 
bottles, marbles, etc.  It's truly a work of art.  The Dixie Cup, our 
major Houston competition, has held our welcoming reception at the Beer 
Can House's "sister" site, The Orange Show these past two years.  
There's some discussion into checking out the Beer Can House as a 
venue, but it's not as crowd friendly as the Orange Show is.

Orange Show: http://www.orangeshow.org
Beer Can House: http://www.orangeshow.org/beercan.html
Dixie Cup: http://www.crunchyfrog.net/dixiecup/

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
Brewsletter Editor
The Foam Rangers
http://www.foamrangers.com



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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:52:57 -0500
From: Alan McLeod <beerblog at gmail.com>
Subject: Beer Store in Cambridge Mass

In mid-April, I will be in the Harvard area for a family event weekend
which may give me likely 27 minutes to find stuff of rare degree for
the <a href="http://beerblog.genx40.com">beer blog</a> if I can find
the right shop.   Any recommendations?


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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:25:08 -0800
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: diacetyl as a result of CP filling

I've got a stumper for ya....

A buddy of mine brewed a Strong Golden in October using three different 
yeast strains including the original Orval; it finished in fairly low 
territory.  He kegged in December and CP filled some bottles in January.  He 
left the CP bottles at room temp.  Taste the two beers side by side today in 
March and there is almost no comparison.  The stuff on tap in the keg is 
heavenly.  The bottled brew has none of the signs of a bad CP fill, i.e. 
oxidized, cardboard....  Instead it smells of diacetyl from a mile away; 
like butta'.  I have never seen this happen before.  He added nothing in the 
way of priming sugar, and the beer was well attenuated after a lengthy 
fermentation regimen.  I'm stumped.  What carbon source would be present in 
"finished" beer that would result in diacetyl?

I'm assuming it is possible that if a small amount of oxygen is introduced 
at bottling, and that some CH-OH group of donors are still present in the 
beer (and I can't imagine a beer that doesn't have one or two floating 
around.) diacetyl can be the result?  Well of course it can be the result, I 
drank the result on Saturday after all.  I've just never seen this happen 
before.

Searching SGD I found that diacetyl reductase can result in the catalysis of 
the reaction: acetoin + NAD+ = diacetyl + NADH + H+.  This is part of 
oxidoreductase activity.  Diacetyl reductase is synonymous with acetoin 
dehydrogenase activity.  So I guess what is happening is the acetoin 
reduction is occurring but the diacetyl reduction gets stuck for some 
reason.

Anyone else out there in HBD land experienced this phenomenon: diacetyl as a 
result of CP filling?  Anyway to catalyze the complete reaction?  Move the 
bottles from 60 to 80 degrees?  This is counterintuitive, but I think I'll 
give it a try.

Thanks for any input,

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego 



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Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:23:45 -0800
From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Subject: RE: pumping sparge water - some tests

In an effort to get to the bottom of this issue, I ran a few tests last
night.

First, I pumped cold water through the silicone tubing:
No problems.  10+' without any indication of bubbles or 
slowing of rate.

Second, I reproduced the initial problem of pumping 70-80C water.
Initial prime poor - bubbles in line immedately.  Once prime improved, full
flow rate achieved.  Within 1-2' bubbles appeared.  By 3' bubbles had slowed
rate considerably (note: not pumping full at the time).  Reopening the valve
to full cleared the line and restored the flow to maximum by the 5' mark
(about 2' to recover).

So, it looks like the tubing/connections are fine but there are definite
problems with bubbles and hot water.  I'm  beginning to think that, in
addition to the bubbles, the manifold in the kettle that I'm drawing the
water from may have air in it from the initial fill.  I may try to back
flush the manifold or at least run a little water through it before the
temperature increases.

Question:  the other people that are experiencing my problem... are you
using a slotted manifold or a false-bottom?  It may be that the false bottom
people may not have any trouble.

cheers,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, Canada


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Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:11:26 +0200
From: "yung shun" <yungshun at teenmail.co.za>
Subject: MUTUAL  BENEFIT REPRESENTATIVE

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am MR.Yung Shun,Vic President of  China mettallurgical
import and export company. we are a group of business men
who deal on Raw Materialsand My company was established in
2001 we export raw materials such as non-metallic minerals
such as Calcite, Barytes,Manganese Dioxide , Dolomite Mica
 China Clay ,Mangnese Dioxide ,Ferrous (Iron ) Oxide . The
various industries we cater to are Paints, Rubber,
Plastics, Construction chemicals.My sales varies from
defferent sizes.we export them into Canada,europe and
America. We are searching for representatives who can help
us establish a medium of getting to our costumers in
Canada,Europe and America as well as making payments
through you to us and earn 10% of every payment made
through you to us.Subject to your satisfaction you will be
given the opportunity to negotiate your mode of which we
will pay for your services as our representative.If you are
interested,please fill inn the blank spaces below: 1.Your
Full
Names...................................................
2.Your Full Contact
Address......................................
3.State/Country........................................................
4.Your Phone/Fax
Numbers......................................
I await your prompt response.
Thanks 
Vice President
Mr.Yung Shun


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