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Contents:
  Re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website (Joe Preiser)
  Re: Sensory Evaluation (Joe Preiser)
  Re:frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website ("Michael O'Donnell")
  Re: post EOF diacetyl peaks ("Fredrik")
  Re: Joining AHA (Monterey)" <meekerj@monterey.navy.mil>
  Re: Sensory Evaluation (Monterey)" <meekerj@monterey.navy.mil>
  RE: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website ("Doug Moyer")
  RE: Sensory Evaluation ("Al Boyce")
  Re: Off-flavors workshop for BJCP study group (Paul Shick)
  Re: What to do abou the krausen (Jeff Renner)
  Re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website (Jeff Renner)
  Sir, you just called me a lunatic! ("Peed, John")
  re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website ("Bradley Latham")
  The Sacred Corn Beer of the Tarahumara ("ensmingr@twcny.rr.com")


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Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:40:59 -0600
From: Joe Preiser <jpreiser at jpreiser.com>
Subject: Re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website

I just checked out the website and it works for me.

Once you get to the US membership page you need to use the drop-down 
lists to choose your membership status (new or renewal) and to choose 
the level of membership you wish to sign up for under the "AHA 
Membership Selection" drop-down (1-, 2-, or 3-year).  Then you can click 
on the Buy button.  Family and life memberships don't have multi-year 
options so that's why the prices are shown for those selections.

   Joe

> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:41:26 +0000
> From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com>
> Subject: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website
> 
> I've been trying to buy a membership to the American Homebrewer's 
> Association via their website for the last couple of weeks and can't get 
> past web page loops.  When you go to the web page and click on the AHA logo, 
> you then have to chose US or foreign membership.  When you chose US, it 
> takes you to the order form (no price is posted for a single membership, but 
> there is a price for family membership...go figure).
> 
> I click on the button to purchase a membership and get sent into a loop.  It 
> tells me that I have to enter a membership number (duh..ain't got one 
> because I ain't a member yet).  So, it sends me to a link that suppsedly 
> takes you back to the home page but instead takes you to some unrelated 
> catalogue page.
> 
> I've tried to purchase a membership multiple times without success.  Anybody 
> know the secret?  Guess I have to buy a copy of zymurgy and tear out the 
> form and mail it in.
> 
> Todd in Fort Collins
> 


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:44:07 -0600
From: Joe Preiser <jpreiser at jpreiser.com>
Subject: Re: Sensory Evaluation

There's a guide to doctoring beers on the BJCP website.  It's at least a 
good start.  Here's the URL.

   http://www.bjcp.org/study.html#drbeer

    Joe


> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:36:17 -0500
> From: "Stovall, Chris" <stovall.c at thomas-hutton.com>
> Subject: Sensory Evaluation
> 
> Our homebrew club is putting together a BJCP study group and I was
> looking into a "doctored" beer kit from FlavorActiv to teach off-flavors
> in beer.  The cost is $200.  I was wondering if there is a cheaper
> option or if someone has a good list/reference of household flavorings
> that could be used to simulate the off-flavors.  I remember coming
> across something like this on-line in the past but have not been able to
> find it again.
> 


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:03:29 -0800
From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu>
Subject: Re:frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website


>Anybody know the secret?

Nope, I haven't renewed this year because I couldn't get it to work... 
their site couldn't handle the apostrophe in my last name (gave me a form 
error), but without it, it couldn't find my membership. I emailed their 
tech support and someone claimed that they fixed it, but I still had the 
same problems.

I ought to go to the trouble of mailing back the form, but in this web era, 
I'm so used to doing things like this online that I often can't get over 
the energy threshold to do them the hard way.  Which reminds me, I need to 
go make my own beer so I don't have to go grab a six pack at the store...

Mike O'Donnell
Monterey, CA




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:14:01 +0100
From: "Fredrik" <carlsbergerensis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: post EOF diacetyl peaks

About the recent diacetyl thread.

FWIW, here is another nice article on diacetyl that focuses on 
seconardy peaks and the impact of valine levels in wort.

http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/abstracts/2004/1001-01a.htm

I have the article printed on paper, but I don't remember
where the heck I got it from :o( I know the full article is 
available *somewhere* for free download, at the moment I 
could only find the link to the abstract as well as my paper 
copy. 

As I read it, it basically suggests that...

At high valine levels, there is just a single diacetyl peak.

low valine leves are likely to give rise to a secondary diacetyl 
peak. However, at low levels of valine and possibly the the 
other aminoacids that have the acetolactate in common, 
this secondary peak occurs so early, that it is likely 
to be decently reduced in time.

The worst case scenario suggested by this article is some 
intermediate valine levels, and the reason is that the 
secondary peak appears so late that there isn't enough 
active yeast to have a chance to reduce it.

As I understand the basic reason for the peaks is that 
due to the affinity of amino acid uptake, there is a 
delay of the uptake of valine, During this period 
acetolactic pools are high and a diacetyl peak is built up, 
when the group A amino acids are used up valine is taken 
up from the wort which inhibits the comitting step that 
produces acetolactate.

During this time there is a net reduction of diacetyl.

If the wort levels of these amino acids are depleted 
before EOF, acetolactate is synthesised again, and a second 
peak of diacetly risk appearing, either during the finish,
or during storage.

There is likely a some lag between the acetolactate 
synthesis and oxidation to diacetyl, so I suppose in the 
unfortunate case where the peak is really late, you may have 
seemingly low diacetyl levels at racking, yet alot of 
acetolactate (potential diacetyl), which hang around and 
depending on storage condition can convert to diacetyl at 
different rates?

So while it is sounds quite possible that air during post EOF
handling has accelerated the oxidation of the acetolactate
to diacetyl it seems to me like (unless the reason is another 
one, like an infection) the root of the problem that should be 
cured is the residual levels of acetolactate? I have no idea
at all but maybe the kegged beer could get a diacetyl peak 
too given more time? 

Comments?

Maybe the wort make up or fermentation process could
be tweaked to get around this

This said I have had the opposite problem. In my last leffe 
clone I looked forward to a slight diacetyl background, and 
it was absolutely perfect at racking, after a month on bottle 
I was dissapointed to find out that all the good stuff was gone. 
The balancing act of keeping the diacetyl level consistent 
throughout the shelflife seems like an incredibly hard task. 
Though too much is far worse than too low, I appreciate 
buttery background hints in some beers.

 /Fredrik



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:30:59 -0200
From: "Meeker, James P FC1 (Monterey)" <meekerj at monterey.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Joining AHA

Todd in Fort Collins is having problems joining AHA through their website
http://www.beertown.org/ .

Two suggestions.

#1 Make sure you are signing up using the "New Membership" link (Or whatever
it's called). It sounds like you're going through the renewal screens (They
worked a few weeks ago when I renewed).

#2 If that doesn't work try any of the online homebrew suppliers that offer
memberships. I think More Beer and Northern Brewer both offer AHA
memberships. 

Jim at Sea
Rennerian Coordinates: CLASSIFIED!


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:08:46 -0200
From: "Meeker, James P FC1 (Monterey)" <meekerj at monterey.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Sensory Evaluation

Chris Stovall asked about various ways to doctor beer to practice for BJCP.

The BJCP Study guide has a list of things you can use to doctor beer in
order to simulate various problems. Unfortunately their website seems to be
down right now.

Jim at Sea
Rennerian Coordinates: CLASSIFIED!


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:20:04 -0500
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website

Todd is having problems joining the AHA via the web page. I have only one
question: Why would you bother joining AHA at all?

I just don't get it.



Brew on!

Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org

Shzabrau Homebrewery: http://users.adelphia.net/~shyzaboy/homebrewery.html



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:21:32 -0600
From: "Al Boyce" <aboyce at mn.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Sensory Evaluation

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:36:17, "Stovall, Chris" asked:

>> cheaper option or if someone has a good list/reference of 
>> household flavorings that could be used to simulate the off-flavors.  

http://www.bjcp.org/study98.txt

It's listed in CLASS 10, Doctored Beer Seminar.  Our experience has show
that you need to nearly double the adulterants listed to get perceptible
flaws.

 - Al



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:22:41 -0500
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Off-flavors workshop for BJCP study group


Hi all,

    Chris Stovall asks about a lower cost
"home-grown" alternative to the FlavorAktiv
kit for a sensory evaluation/off-flavor
workshop.  We've just finished doing ours
for a Cleveland area study group, using
mostly the ideas from the BJCP Study Guide.
Using a neutral base beer (we used Miller
High Life) with additions of fairly readily
available compounds, you can get reasonable
approximations of many flavors, at a very
minimal cost.  Take a look at the table for
the last study session in the BJCP Study
Guide for details.  My one suggestion is to
use the amounts suggested there as a very 
rough guide and to add the adulterant to
taste.  For example, the suggested level of
butter flavoring yields a pretty intense
diacetyl flavor, at least with the brand of
flavoring I used.  On the other hand, the
sherry dosage suggested seemed very low, 
again, for the brand I used.  Oh, by the 
way, you can't skunk High Life, so I used
off-the-shelf Heinekin for that flavor.  With
_no_ treatment at all, it was among the most
intense flavors of the evening.

   By contrast, there was a great off-flavors
workshop at the Michigan MCAB last year, run
by Rex Halfpenny, using a commercial kit. The
same suggestion as above applies to commercial
kits as well: add the chemical _to taste_
because the suggested guidelines vary so much.


               Paul Shick
               Cleveland Hts, Ohio



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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:16:37 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: What to do abou the krausen

"Randy Scott" <lists at rscott.us> writes:

>I brew in an 8-gallon MiniBrew plastic conical fermenter.  Usually, after 4
>to 6 days, the krausen breaks up and falls to the bottom, and I dump it off
>with the bottom dump valve, and leave the beer in there for another 2 weeks
>or so as secondary.
>
>In my last batch, the krausen never fell.  It had some off flavors, and I
>wonder if it's at least partially attributable to this.
>
>The latest batch is a Belgian Wit, in the fermenter for 10 days now, and the
>krausen again hasn't fallen.  I've dumped off the bottom but there's nothing
>much there to dump, just a small amount of cold break. The gravity is down
>to 1.012 (og = 1.046) so it's close to being done fermenting.  A taste test
>of this early sample is encouraging.
>
>When the krausen doesn't fall like this, should I be skimming it off or
>something? Or just leave it alone, and try not to bring any along when I keg
>it?

First, some terminology, just so we're all talking about the same 
thing.  Krausen (or krauesen) is a German term that normally refers 
to the foam, not necessarily the yeasty head that forms in 
traditional ale fermentations.  I say traditional because, while most 
traditional ale yeast strains formed yeasty heads, which is why they 
are called "top fermenters," many that are on the market now do not.

The English term (there are cognates in other Germanic languages) for 
the yeasty foam is one that isn't much used in homebrewing - barm. 
The old term "barmy" (or its altered form "balmy"), meaning crazy or 
feeble-minded, comes from this.

It's a useful term for those of us who use and love true, 
old-fashioned top-cropping ale yeasts.  Most of the Belgian yeasts, 
the German ale yeasts, and several British strains, most notably for 
me, WLP022 Essex, exhibit this trait of producing a yeasty head.

This kind of yeasty head is not wanted in commercial breweries with 
cylindro-conical fermenters.  It's hard to remove from their big 
fermenters.  They prefer a yeast that behaves like a lager (bottom 
fermenting) lager yeast and drops to the bottom of the fermenter.  I 
suspect that this is why so many of the strains available to us do 
not form yeasty heads, even though they probably did in their 
original form.  (W1056 and WLP001 are both reputed to be from the old 
Ballantine strain, and photos of the old Ballantine brewery show 
workers skimming off the yeast).

So, now, on to your question (my kids always said I couldn't just 
give a short answer).

The yeast pancake, as it is often called when the barm collapses but 
is still floating, of top fermenting beer is typically skimmed 
before racking.  This is really good, healthy, clean yeast for saving 
and repitching.  Old British homebrewing books specifically caution 
against allowing the yeast to fall back into the beer as this was 
supposed to produce "yeast bite," a harsh bitterness.

I'm not sure just what yeast bite might be.  Yeast by itself 
shouldn't produce a bitterness.  Perhaps it is oxidation from the 
loss of the protective yeast head, or perhaps off flavors from 
autolyzed yeast.

I normally brew on a Monday and skim the yeast and rack on Friday or 
Saturday for a typical, fast finishing, normal gravity ale.  At this 
point, the beer is nearly to its final gravity and it will finish in 
the secondary carboy, or, more typically, in the keg, producing just 
the right carbonation if I'm lucky.  There is enough yeast still in 
suspension to finish.  After all, it isn't the yeast on top that does 
the actual fermenting.

I skim using a sterilized nearly flat perforated ladle.  It's about 
4" (10 cm) in diameter with many 1/8 in (3mm) holes.  It isn't really 
a ladle - I think it's for pulling out food that you are deep fat 
frying in a wok.  Anyhow, this drains the yeast, which by this time 
is already pretty dry, and I save it in a sterilized quart/liter 
mason jar.

I suspect that most of the time you'll want to choose a yeast that 
doesn't form a head, but for the styles that require it, such as 
Belgian and German ales, you could either skim of simply rack out the 
bottom until the yeast gets to the valve.  However, a yeast such as 
WLP022 forms such a thick, pasty mass that it would not flow out the 
valve.  I think I'd skim it and save it.

I don't think that your off flavors in the previous batch came from 
the yeast head not falling.  Perhaps they came from simply leaving 
the beer in the primary too long as you waited for it to fall.

Hope this helps.

Jeff


- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:28:33 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website

  Todd, not Janie, Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com> writes from 
Ft. Collins, Colorado:

>I've tried to purchase a membership multiple times without success.  Anybody
>know the secret?

There is a secret designed to keep out the unworthy.  You turn the 
outer dial on your secret decoder ring to the day of the month and 
the inner ring to your social security number, and use the result in 
the ID number slot.  Then everything proceeds properly.

You did save your secret decoder ring when you got it, didn't you?

In case this doesn't work, you'll be glad to know that Steve Jones of 
the AHA Governing Committee has already brought this problem to the 
attention of the technical staff at the AHA.  I trust that it will be 
fixed promptly.  I think it must be a new problem as people join via 
the web all the time.  (Maybe they didn't lose their ring).

I'm really pleased that you are joining the AHA.  Don't forget to 
vote for the Governing Committee before the end of the month. 
http://beertown.org/homebrewing/membership/elections.aspx

This reminder is also for all the other members out there who haven't 
voted yet.  While more ballots have been cast than last year, it is 
still a small percentage of the membership.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:41:04 -0800
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Sir, you just called me a lunatic!


But I've been called worse, so no harm, no foul.  Steve says, "The whole
idea of risking flavor damage by CP filling or filtering for the sake of
removing a little yeast or haze so your beer will look like the store-bought
stuff is just short of lunacy."  You miss the point of filtering.  The point
is to get the yeast and other gunk out to clean up not only the appearance,
but also the flavor. Beer filtered slowly and carefully with a coarse filter
has very little loss of malt and hop flavors, and the flavor is much
brighter, crisper, better defined and the bitterness is much less harsh.  As
far as I'm concerned, filtering is an essential part of making excellent
homebrew.  It certainly does make packaging for competitions problematic,
but I am really surprised that people continue to say that beer cannot be
successfully counter-pressure bottled.  It seems to me that if we can
emulate what the big boys do, we should be able to be successful.  What do
the bug boys do, anyway?  My impression is that they have very high speed
bottle lines that fill with a jet stream of beer and that they slam a cap on
the bottle on top of massive amounts of foam.  Is that true?  My point here
is that we have to think about the process and keep trying.  I think there
are two problems that have limited the success of CP bottle filling.  One is
ignorance of the problem - many people never even realize there's a problem,
or at the least, it takes quite a while for most folks to realize it.  The
other is a defeatist attitude: it can't be done.  Again, I think we just
haven't pushed hard enough yet.  I've been experimenting with approximating
the process above - slamming a cap on top of vigorous foam, within a
fraction of a second after ending the fill process - and my results are
much, much better than they ever were before.  That having been said,
though, a couple of my beers got hammered recently in competitions for
oxidation and diacetyl flavors, so I still have issues to resolve.  I'm not
yet ready to give up on CPBF.  I do plan to do some comparisons of
bottle-conditioned, tap-filled and CP filled bottles.

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN




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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:49:23 -0700
From: "Bradley Latham" <bradley at brewersassociation.org>
Subject: re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website

Hi Todd,

I work in member services at the AHA and just want to apologize for any
troubles you are having trying to purchase an AHA membership.  In order to
purchase the membership, you have to make sure a few things are filled out
before proceeding with the "buy" button.  Once you have clicked on whether
you need an international or domestic membership, it brings you to the order
page.  On the first product, you have to first indicate a "member status"
(are you a new member or renewing?).  Secondly, you have to select an "AHA
membership selection".  This is where you choose 1 year for $38, 2 years for
$68, or 3 year for $97.  Without indicating how many years you want to sign
up for, there really isn't a product in your shopping cart. Lastly, you
select how you heard about the AHA.  Then it is time to click the "buy"
button.    

After you are taken to the next screen, just fill in all of you information
and proceed through the rest of the check out.  Be sure to choose membership
as your shipping method.  I'm sorry you had troubles with trying to place an
order, but we truly appreciate your interest in the AHA.  If you continue to
experience any troubles, feel free to give us a call toll-free at
888-822-6273 (Monday-Friday 8am-5pm MST) and we can take the order over the
phone.

Cheers,

Bradley Latham
Brewers Association member services





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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:58:19 -0500
From: "ensmingr at twcny.rr.com" <ensmingr@twcny.rr.com>
Subject: The Sacred Corn Beer of the Tarahumara

An interesting story on NPR this morning on tesquino (corn beer), among the
Tarahumara (Raramuri) people, who live in the Sierra Madre of Mexoco. You
can read or listen to the story ("The Sacred Corn Beer of the Tarahumara")
at: www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4532569

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY



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