HOMEBREW Digest #4747 Fri 25 March 2005

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


                  Beer, Beer, and More Beer
      Visit http://morebeer.com to show your appreciation!

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  Re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website (Joe Preiser)
  Re: Sensory Evaluation (Joe Preiser)
  Re:frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website ("Michael O'Donnell")
  Re: post EOF diacetyl peaks ("Fredrik")
  Re: Joining AHA (Monterey)" <meekerj@monterey.navy.mil>
  Re: Sensory Evaluation (Monterey)" <meekerj@monterey.navy.mil>
  RE: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website ("Doug Moyer")
  RE: Sensory Evaluation ("Al Boyce")
  Re: Off-flavors workshop for BJCP study group (Paul Shick)
  Re: What to do abou the krausen (Jeff Renner)
  Re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website (Jeff Renner)
  Sir, you just called me a lunatic! ("Peed, John")
  re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website ("Bradley Latham")
  The Sacred Corn Beer of the Tarahumara ("ensmingr@twcny.rr.com")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * * http://www.hbd.org/store.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning, and Spencer Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:40:59 -0600 From: Joe Preiser <jpreiser at jpreiser.com> Subject: Re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website I just checked out the website and it works for me. Once you get to the US membership page you need to use the drop-down lists to choose your membership status (new or renewal) and to choose the level of membership you wish to sign up for under the "AHA Membership Selection" drop-down (1-, 2-, or 3-year). Then you can click on the Buy button. Family and life memberships don't have multi-year options so that's why the prices are shown for those selections. Joe > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:41:26 +0000 > From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com> > Subject: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website > > I've been trying to buy a membership to the American Homebrewer's > Association via their website for the last couple of weeks and can't get > past web page loops. When you go to the web page and click on the AHA logo, > you then have to chose US or foreign membership. When you chose US, it > takes you to the order form (no price is posted for a single membership, but > there is a price for family membership...go figure). > > I click on the button to purchase a membership and get sent into a loop. It > tells me that I have to enter a membership number (duh..ain't got one > because I ain't a member yet). So, it sends me to a link that suppsedly > takes you back to the home page but instead takes you to some unrelated > catalogue page. > > I've tried to purchase a membership multiple times without success. Anybody > know the secret? Guess I have to buy a copy of zymurgy and tear out the > form and mail it in. > > Todd in Fort Collins > Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:44:07 -0600 From: Joe Preiser <jpreiser at jpreiser.com> Subject: Re: Sensory Evaluation There's a guide to doctoring beers on the BJCP website. It's at least a good start. Here's the URL. http://www.bjcp.org/study.html#drbeer Joe > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:36:17 -0500 > From: "Stovall, Chris" <stovall.c at thomas-hutton.com> > Subject: Sensory Evaluation > > Our homebrew club is putting together a BJCP study group and I was > looking into a "doctored" beer kit from FlavorActiv to teach off-flavors > in beer. The cost is $200. I was wondering if there is a cheaper > option or if someone has a good list/reference of household flavorings > that could be used to simulate the off-flavors. I remember coming > across something like this on-line in the past but have not been able to > find it again. > Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:03:29 -0800 From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu> Subject: Re:frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website >Anybody know the secret? Nope, I haven't renewed this year because I couldn't get it to work... their site couldn't handle the apostrophe in my last name (gave me a form error), but without it, it couldn't find my membership. I emailed their tech support and someone claimed that they fixed it, but I still had the same problems. I ought to go to the trouble of mailing back the form, but in this web era, I'm so used to doing things like this online that I often can't get over the energy threshold to do them the hard way. Which reminds me, I need to go make my own beer so I don't have to go grab a six pack at the store... Mike O'Donnell Monterey, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:14:01 +0100 From: "Fredrik" <carlsbergerensis at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: post EOF diacetyl peaks About the recent diacetyl thread. FWIW, here is another nice article on diacetyl that focuses on seconardy peaks and the impact of valine levels in wort. http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/abstracts/2004/1001-01a.htm I have the article printed on paper, but I don't remember where the heck I got it from :o( I know the full article is available *somewhere* for free download, at the moment I could only find the link to the abstract as well as my paper copy. As I read it, it basically suggests that... At high valine levels, there is just a single diacetyl peak. low valine leves are likely to give rise to a secondary diacetyl peak. However, at low levels of valine and possibly the the other aminoacids that have the acetolactate in common, this secondary peak occurs so early, that it is likely to be decently reduced in time. The worst case scenario suggested by this article is some intermediate valine levels, and the reason is that the secondary peak appears so late that there isn't enough active yeast to have a chance to reduce it. As I understand the basic reason for the peaks is that due to the affinity of amino acid uptake, there is a delay of the uptake of valine, During this period acetolactic pools are high and a diacetyl peak is built up, when the group A amino acids are used up valine is taken up from the wort which inhibits the comitting step that produces acetolactate. During this time there is a net reduction of diacetyl. If the wort levels of these amino acids are depleted before EOF, acetolactate is synthesised again, and a second peak of diacetly risk appearing, either during the finish, or during storage. There is likely a some lag between the acetolactate synthesis and oxidation to diacetyl, so I suppose in the unfortunate case where the peak is really late, you may have seemingly low diacetyl levels at racking, yet alot of acetolactate (potential diacetyl), which hang around and depending on storage condition can convert to diacetyl at different rates? So while it is sounds quite possible that air during post EOF handling has accelerated the oxidation of the acetolactate to diacetyl it seems to me like (unless the reason is another one, like an infection) the root of the problem that should be cured is the residual levels of acetolactate? I have no idea at all but maybe the kegged beer could get a diacetyl peak too given more time? Comments? Maybe the wort make up or fermentation process could be tweaked to get around this This said I have had the opposite problem. In my last leffe clone I looked forward to a slight diacetyl background, and it was absolutely perfect at racking, after a month on bottle I was dissapointed to find out that all the good stuff was gone. The balancing act of keeping the diacetyl level consistent throughout the shelflife seems like an incredibly hard task. Though too much is far worse than too low, I appreciate buttery background hints in some beers. /Fredrik Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:30:59 -0200 From: "Meeker, James P FC1 (Monterey)" <meekerj at monterey.navy.mil> Subject: Re: Joining AHA Todd in Fort Collins is having problems joining AHA through their website http://www.beertown.org/ . Two suggestions. #1 Make sure you are signing up using the "New Membership" link (Or whatever it's called). It sounds like you're going through the renewal screens (They worked a few weeks ago when I renewed). #2 If that doesn't work try any of the online homebrew suppliers that offer memberships. I think More Beer and Northern Brewer both offer AHA memberships. Jim at Sea Rennerian Coordinates: CLASSIFIED! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:08:46 -0200 From: "Meeker, James P FC1 (Monterey)" <meekerj at monterey.navy.mil> Subject: Re: Sensory Evaluation Chris Stovall asked about various ways to doctor beer to practice for BJCP. The BJCP Study guide has a list of things you can use to doctor beer in order to simulate various problems. Unfortunately their website seems to be down right now. Jim at Sea Rennerian Coordinates: CLASSIFIED! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:20:04 -0500 From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website Todd is having problems joining the AHA via the web page. I have only one question: Why would you bother joining AHA at all? I just don't get it. Brew on! Doug Moyer Troutville, VA Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org Shzabrau Homebrewery: http://users.adelphia.net/~shyzaboy/homebrewery.html Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:21:32 -0600 From: "Al Boyce" <aboyce at mn.rr.com> Subject: RE: Sensory Evaluation On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:36:17, "Stovall, Chris" asked: >> cheaper option or if someone has a good list/reference of >> household flavorings that could be used to simulate the off-flavors. http://www.bjcp.org/study98.txt It's listed in CLASS 10, Doctored Beer Seminar. Our experience has show that you need to nearly double the adulterants listed to get perceptible flaws. - Al Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:22:41 -0500 From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu> Subject: Re: Off-flavors workshop for BJCP study group Hi all, Chris Stovall asks about a lower cost "home-grown" alternative to the FlavorAktiv kit for a sensory evaluation/off-flavor workshop. We've just finished doing ours for a Cleveland area study group, using mostly the ideas from the BJCP Study Guide. Using a neutral base beer (we used Miller High Life) with additions of fairly readily available compounds, you can get reasonable approximations of many flavors, at a very minimal cost. Take a look at the table for the last study session in the BJCP Study Guide for details. My one suggestion is to use the amounts suggested there as a very rough guide and to add the adulterant to taste. For example, the suggested level of butter flavoring yields a pretty intense diacetyl flavor, at least with the brand of flavoring I used. On the other hand, the sherry dosage suggested seemed very low, again, for the brand I used. Oh, by the way, you can't skunk High Life, so I used off-the-shelf Heinekin for that flavor. With _no_ treatment at all, it was among the most intense flavors of the evening. By contrast, there was a great off-flavors workshop at the Michigan MCAB last year, run by Rex Halfpenny, using a commercial kit. The same suggestion as above applies to commercial kits as well: add the chemical _to taste_ because the suggested guidelines vary so much. Paul Shick Cleveland Hts, Ohio Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:16:37 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: What to do abou the krausen "Randy Scott" <lists at rscott.us> writes: >I brew in an 8-gallon MiniBrew plastic conical fermenter. Usually, after 4 >to 6 days, the krausen breaks up and falls to the bottom, and I dump it off >with the bottom dump valve, and leave the beer in there for another 2 weeks >or so as secondary. > >In my last batch, the krausen never fell. It had some off flavors, and I >wonder if it's at least partially attributable to this. > >The latest batch is a Belgian Wit, in the fermenter for 10 days now, and the >krausen again hasn't fallen. I've dumped off the bottom but there's nothing >much there to dump, just a small amount of cold break. The gravity is down >to 1.012 (og = 1.046) so it's close to being done fermenting. A taste test >of this early sample is encouraging. > >When the krausen doesn't fall like this, should I be skimming it off or >something? Or just leave it alone, and try not to bring any along when I keg >it? First, some terminology, just so we're all talking about the same thing. Krausen (or krauesen) is a German term that normally refers to the foam, not necessarily the yeasty head that forms in traditional ale fermentations. I say traditional because, while most traditional ale yeast strains formed yeasty heads, which is why they are called "top fermenters," many that are on the market now do not. The English term (there are cognates in other Germanic languages) for the yeasty foam is one that isn't much used in homebrewing - barm. The old term "barmy" (or its altered form "balmy"), meaning crazy or feeble-minded, comes from this. It's a useful term for those of us who use and love true, old-fashioned top-cropping ale yeasts. Most of the Belgian yeasts, the German ale yeasts, and several British strains, most notably for me, WLP022 Essex, exhibit this trait of producing a yeasty head. This kind of yeasty head is not wanted in commercial breweries with cylindro-conical fermenters. It's hard to remove from their big fermenters. They prefer a yeast that behaves like a lager (bottom fermenting) lager yeast and drops to the bottom of the fermenter. I suspect that this is why so many of the strains available to us do not form yeasty heads, even though they probably did in their original form. (W1056 and WLP001 are both reputed to be from the old Ballantine strain, and photos of the old Ballantine brewery show workers skimming off the yeast). So, now, on to your question (my kids always said I couldn't just give a short answer). The yeast pancake, as it is often called when the barm collapses but is still floating, of top fermenting beer is typically skimmed before racking. This is really good, healthy, clean yeast for saving and repitching. Old British homebrewing books specifically caution against allowing the yeast to fall back into the beer as this was supposed to produce "yeast bite," a harsh bitterness. I'm not sure just what yeast bite might be. Yeast by itself shouldn't produce a bitterness. Perhaps it is oxidation from the loss of the protective yeast head, or perhaps off flavors from autolyzed yeast. I normally brew on a Monday and skim the yeast and rack on Friday or Saturday for a typical, fast finishing, normal gravity ale. At this point, the beer is nearly to its final gravity and it will finish in the secondary carboy, or, more typically, in the keg, producing just the right carbonation if I'm lucky. There is enough yeast still in suspension to finish. After all, it isn't the yeast on top that does the actual fermenting. I skim using a sterilized nearly flat perforated ladle. It's about 4" (10 cm) in diameter with many 1/8 in (3mm) holes. It isn't really a ladle - I think it's for pulling out food that you are deep fat frying in a wok. Anyhow, this drains the yeast, which by this time is already pretty dry, and I save it in a sterilized quart/liter mason jar. I suspect that most of the time you'll want to choose a yeast that doesn't form a head, but for the styles that require it, such as Belgian and German ales, you could either skim of simply rack out the bottom until the yeast gets to the valve. However, a yeast such as WLP022 forms such a thick, pasty mass that it would not flow out the valve. I think I'd skim it and save it. I don't think that your off flavors in the previous batch came from the yeast head not falling. Perhaps they came from simply leaving the beer in the primary too long as you waited for it to fall. Hope this helps. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:28:33 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website Todd, not Janie, Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com> writes from Ft. Collins, Colorado: >I've tried to purchase a membership multiple times without success. Anybody >know the secret? There is a secret designed to keep out the unworthy. You turn the outer dial on your secret decoder ring to the day of the month and the inner ring to your social security number, and use the result in the ID number slot. Then everything proceeds properly. You did save your secret decoder ring when you got it, didn't you? In case this doesn't work, you'll be glad to know that Steve Jones of the AHA Governing Committee has already brought this problem to the attention of the technical staff at the AHA. I trust that it will be fixed promptly. I think it must be a new problem as people join via the web all the time. (Maybe they didn't lose their ring). I'm really pleased that you are joining the AHA. Don't forget to vote for the Governing Committee before the end of the month. http://beertown.org/homebrewing/membership/elections.aspx This reminder is also for all the other members out there who haven't voted yet. While more ballots have been cast than last year, it is still a small percentage of the membership. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:41:04 -0800 From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com> Subject: Sir, you just called me a lunatic! But I've been called worse, so no harm, no foul. Steve says, "The whole idea of risking flavor damage by CP filling or filtering for the sake of removing a little yeast or haze so your beer will look like the store-bought stuff is just short of lunacy." You miss the point of filtering. The point is to get the yeast and other gunk out to clean up not only the appearance, but also the flavor. Beer filtered slowly and carefully with a coarse filter has very little loss of malt and hop flavors, and the flavor is much brighter, crisper, better defined and the bitterness is much less harsh. As far as I'm concerned, filtering is an essential part of making excellent homebrew. It certainly does make packaging for competitions problematic, but I am really surprised that people continue to say that beer cannot be successfully counter-pressure bottled. It seems to me that if we can emulate what the big boys do, we should be able to be successful. What do the bug boys do, anyway? My impression is that they have very high speed bottle lines that fill with a jet stream of beer and that they slam a cap on the bottle on top of massive amounts of foam. Is that true? My point here is that we have to think about the process and keep trying. I think there are two problems that have limited the success of CP bottle filling. One is ignorance of the problem - many people never even realize there's a problem, or at the least, it takes quite a while for most folks to realize it. The other is a defeatist attitude: it can't be done. Again, I think we just haven't pushed hard enough yet. I've been experimenting with approximating the process above - slamming a cap on top of vigorous foam, within a fraction of a second after ending the fill process - and my results are much, much better than they ever were before. That having been said, though, a couple of my beers got hammered recently in competitions for oxidation and diacetyl flavors, so I still have issues to resolve. I'm not yet ready to give up on CPBF. I do plan to do some comparisons of bottle-conditioned, tap-filled and CP filled bottles. John Peed Oak Ridge, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:49:23 -0700 From: "Bradley Latham" <bradley at brewersassociation.org> Subject: re: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website Hi Todd, I work in member services at the AHA and just want to apologize for any troubles you are having trying to purchase an AHA membership. In order to purchase the membership, you have to make sure a few things are filled out before proceeding with the "buy" button. Once you have clicked on whether you need an international or domestic membership, it brings you to the order page. On the first product, you have to first indicate a "member status" (are you a new member or renewing?). Secondly, you have to select an "AHA membership selection". This is where you choose 1 year for $38, 2 years for $68, or 3 year for $97. Without indicating how many years you want to sign up for, there really isn't a product in your shopping cart. Lastly, you select how you heard about the AHA. Then it is time to click the "buy" button. After you are taken to the next screen, just fill in all of you information and proceed through the rest of the check out. Be sure to choose membership as your shipping method. I'm sorry you had troubles with trying to place an order, but we truly appreciate your interest in the AHA. If you continue to experience any troubles, feel free to give us a call toll-free at 888-822-6273 (Monday-Friday 8am-5pm MST) and we can take the order over the phone. Cheers, Bradley Latham Brewers Association member services Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:58:19 -0500 From: "ensmingr at twcny.rr.com" <ensmingr@twcny.rr.com> Subject: The Sacred Corn Beer of the Tarahumara An interesting story on NPR this morning on tesquino (corn beer), among the Tarahumara (Raramuri) people, who live in the Sierra Madre of Mexoco. You can read or listen to the story ("The Sacred Corn Beer of the Tarahumara") at: www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4532569 Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 03/25/05, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster@hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96