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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  NHC 2005 Final Round Call For Judges & Stewards (Phil Sides Jr)
  What to do abou the krausen ("Randy Scott")
  Over carbonater beer or...? ("Andrej Capka")
  re: Diacetyl ("-S")
  RE: While in Boston . . . . ("Stephen Silverthorne")
  Sensory Evaluation ("Stovall, Chris")
  frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website ("Janie Curry")


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Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:56:49 -0500
From: Phil Sides Jr <altoidman at altoidman.com>
Subject: NHC 2005 Final Round Call For Judges & Stewards

This is a call for judges and stewards for the final round of the 27th 
Annual National Homebrew Competition to be held in conjunction with the 
27th Annual National Homebrewers Conference in Baltimore, Maryland in June.


If you are interested in judging or stewarding, please register right away 
at URL http://www.brewingcompetition.com


When:
Thursday, 16 June 2005 9:00am - Noon
Thursday, 16 June 1:30pm - 5:00pm,
Friday, 17 June 8:30am - Noon


Where:
The Holiday Inn Inner Harbor
301 West Lombard Street
Baltimore, MD  21201-2507


Register:
http://www.brewingcompetition.com


Phil Sides Jr., Judge Coordinator
altoidman at altoidman.com or phil@brewingnews.com

============================================
Phil Sides, Jr. - Mid-Atlantic Brewing News
Hop Tips Editor, Import Columnist, Feature Writer
2715 Plyers Mill Road
Silver Spring, MD  20902-4207
(703)788-7817  FAX (925)884-0362
phil at brewingnews.com
http://www.brewingnews.com/mid-atlantic/ 



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Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:48:39 -0600
From: "Randy Scott" <lists at rscott.us>
Subject: What to do abou the krausen

I brew in an 8-gallon MiniBrew plastic conical fermenter.  Usually, after 4 
to 6 days, the krausen breaks up and falls to the bottom, and I dump it off 
with the bottom dump valve, and leave the beer in there for another 2 weeks 
or so as secondary.

In my last batch, the krausen never fell.  It had some off flavors, and I 
wonder if it's at least partially attributable to this.

The latest batch is a Belgian Wit, in the fermenter for 10 days now, and the 
krausen again hasn't fallen.  I've dumped off the bottom but there's nothing 
much there to dump, just a small amount of cold break. The gravity is down 
to 1.012 (og = 1.046) so it's close to being done fermenting.  A taste test 
of this early sample is encouraging.

When the krausen doesn't fall like this, should I be skimming it off or 
something? Or just leave it alone, and try not to bring any along when I keg 
it?

ras





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Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:10:21 +0100
From: "Andrej Capka" <andrej.capka at zg.htnet.hr>
Subject: Over carbonater beer or...?

Good day to all!

Well, first to thank all who answered my question about fermenting under
pressure. Than you!

   Now, my last batch of beer was bottled on 5.3.05. and two days ago I
opened first bottle, well after few seconds bubbles started to go up, foam
formed and some of it went out of the  bottle, nothing much, but it lifted
yeast sediment from the bottom of the bottle and beer got cloudy...
  After that beer is quite nice to drink but definitely needs more time  in
a bottle...
Is this sign of over carbonated beer and if it is what to do, open each
bottle, let it foam and than close again?  Somewhere I heard that that can
be sign of contamination with some wild bacteria??

And one more technical question. How do you wash your bottles? Is there any
machine that has rotating  brush and flushes bottles in same time? Can it be
made at home?  I'm asking because I had to wash 50 bottles and it took me
about 4 hours to wash with soap, rinse, flush with bleach solution for
sterilization, rinse again...

Many thanks and regards to the group,

Andrej





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Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 05:20:26 -0500
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: Diacetyl

Chad notes a difference in diacetyl between CPBF and kegged
samples of the same beer.   I can't directly explain this specific
result except to say either the keg diacetyl was reduced (perhaps
by yeast activity w/ a little O2) or the bottled beer levels increased.

Infection is always possible, and Chad's enzymatic pathway is
possible too, but there is a better supported mechanism.   Yeast
produce alpha-aceto lactate and other acetohydroxy acids from
hydroxyethyl TPP (as opposed to acetoin - it's other fate).   It is
well known that these are (non-enzymatic) precusors to diacetyl formation
though the mechanism is unclear.  According to M&BS, oxygen/air
exposure increase the diacetyl formation and several metal ion (Cu++,
Al+++, Fe+++) catalyze this.  Diacetyl levels from this path also
increase wrt storage temperature.  2,3pentane-dione a sickly sweet honey
aroma is another result of this oxidation too - yet another VDK.

John Peed says,
> I've been working on CPBF technique for some time now and I can
> tell you that it's very common.
I agree.

My experience is that all different forms of HB packaging and handling
have a significant  impact on flavor. CP bottling beers from a keg and
storing these in the same fridge often gives quite different tasting beer
between bottle & keg in a matter of a few days !.   My personal ranking
of flavor/aroma quality among same-beer always comes out the same ...
bottle fermented beers on top, kegged beers next and clear bottled
beers last.

My CP filling hardware and technique are probably not ideal, but
any calculation of the included air from these HB CP filling methods
make it clear that you cannot prevent potential damage from CP filling
but merely reduce the damage to a hopefully acceptable level.

The whole idea of risking flavor damage by CP filling or filtering
for the sake of removing a little yeast or haze so your beer will look
like the store-bought stuff is just short of lunacy.   We should be
celebrating the fact that beers packaged with a little residual yeast
and haze have clearly  better shelf-life and flavor than the clear stuff.

AJ mentions ....

> Assuming that the reaction given is responsible for the formation then
> the way to reverse it is to upset the equilibrium so that the reaction
> goes to the left. You can pull out acetoin or NAD+ or add NADH or H+.
> The only one of these which is worthy of serious consideration, clearly,
> is the addition of H+ and even that is probably not a fix unless sour,
> diacetyl free beer is preferrable to otherwize normal beer tasting of
> diacetyl. I suppose you could try other reducing agents like ascorbic
> acid. ...

Yoicks - he blinded me with science.  I have had some good, but short
lived improvements in damaged beers w/ ascorbic addition but I'd
suggest a speise addition & refermentation  would be better tasting
than acid-beer and more practical than acetoin dialysis. Unfortunately
the damaged beer is bottled, making any rescue impractical.

Best remedy is for Chad's friend to brew again and then bottle condition
& CP fill some of the same beer for comparative tasting in 4-8+ weeks. I
believe there will be a used CP filler on the market after that experiment..

 -Steve



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Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:20:30 -0500
From: "Stephen Silverthorne" <s_silverthorne at sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: While in Boston . . . .

I'll second Chip's nomination of Redbones BBQ.  They usually have about 20
taps going that are divided between local micros, regional micros and
imports and the food is absolutely fantastic.  I dreamt about the brisket
for days afterwards...  I believe that as a restaurant, it is family
friendly and there is a decent bottle shop (Downtown Liquors) just around
the corner that you could pop into while the family are still eating!  The
back half of the store is devoted to beers (probably more than 50% of the
shelf space) and if the owner/manager happens to be in, he's very
knowledgeable about his stock.

Redbones: http://www.ratebeer.com/Places/ShowPlace.asp?PlaceID=307
Downtown Liquors: http://www.ratebeer.com/Places/ShowPlace.asp?PlaceID=312

<- Stephen
Montreal, Quebec



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Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:36:17 -0500
From: "Stovall, Chris" <stovall.c at thomas-hutton.com>
Subject: Sensory Evaluation

Our homebrew club is putting together a BJCP study group and I was
looking into a "doctored" beer kit from FlavorActiv to teach off-flavors
in beer.  The cost is $200.  I was wondering if there is a cheaper
option or if someone has a good list/reference of household flavorings
that could be used to simulate the off-flavors.  I remember coming
across something like this on-line in the past but have not been able to
find it again.



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Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:41:26 +0000
From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com>
Subject: frustrating attempts to join AHA via their website

I've been trying to buy a membership to the American Homebrewer's 
Association via their website for the last couple of weeks and can't get 
past web page loops.  When you go to the web page and click on the AHA logo, 
you then have to chose US or foreign membership.  When you chose US, it 
takes you to the order form (no price is posted for a single membership, but 
there is a price for family membership...go figure).

I click on the button to purchase a membership and get sent into a loop.  It 
tells me that I have to enter a membership number (duh..ain't got one 
because I ain't a member yet).  So, it sends me to a link that suppsedly 
takes you back to the home page but instead takes you to some unrelated 
catalogue page.

I've tried to purchase a membership multiple times without success.  Anybody 
know the secret?  Guess I have to buy a copy of zymurgy and tear out the 
form and mail it in.

Todd in Fort Collins




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