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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Water Chemistry Question ("Martin Brungard")
  nola ("Jeff & Ellen")
  New Orleans d.b.a. (Alexandre Enkerli)
  re: Round two - Enzymes and step mashing ("-S")
  RE: New Orleans Beer Places ("Ronald La Borde")
  RE: New Orleans ("Mark Nelson")
  Step mashing (Signalbox Brewery)


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Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:14:23 -0900
From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Water Chemistry Question

Dick has questions about his new bottled water source.  He fortunately has 
pretty good information on the water quality of the new stuff and his old 
stuff.

Water analysis-new source, (prior source)
Alkalinity 71, (16)
Bicarbonate 71, (16)
Calcium 33, (8.2)
Chloride 84, (13)
Hardness, Calcium (as CaCO3) 83, (21)
Magnesium 7.4, (1.3)
pH 6.34, (6.5)
Potassium 5.7, (1.2)
Sodium  32, (8.4)
Sulfate 12, (7.4)
TDS 240, (71)

I can see that the old water quality was better, in that it was pretty low 
in all ions.  But the new stuff isn't too bad.

With a little math, I see that the ions balance pretty well.  I can say that 
the reported Alkalinity value is not correct though.  Alkalinity is never 
equal to the bicarbonate.  Since the ions balanced, I'd say the Alkalinity 
was actually 58 ppm.  Plugging the corrected alkalinity into the residual 
alkalinity calculation shows that the RA is actually 30.  Well under the 
limit of 50 for brewing pale beers.  So the RA is not a problem for pale 
beers.  But additional alkalinity could be desirable for darker beers, ie 
the RA needs to be above 50.

The pH is fairly low, so all the alkalinity is in the form of bicarbonate.  
If Dick wanted to drop the alkalinity any lower (to say get the RA down to 
0) then a very minor acid addition could be prescribed.  For the alkalinity 
and current pH, Dick would only need to add about 0.2 ml of 88% lactic to 
each gallon of water.

Dick won't need to do any significant softening like the boiling and 
precipitation for most beers.  The new water isn't that hard.  Overall, the 
new water looks pretty good.  Any problems Dick had with his last brew 
weren't from the water.  I'd be more concerned about the fermentation 
temperature at this time of the year.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL




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Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 23:54:00 -0500
From: "Jeff & Ellen" <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: nola

Bob Barrett is going to New Orleans at the end of the month.  Well, I'm
going next weekend!  I haven't visited in over two years so I hope this info
is current.  I plan to visit DBA, a pub in the Faubourg Marigny district,
just a short walk to the north east of the Quarter.  This beer and high end
spirits pub has roots in NYC and I hope it's still going well in New
Orleans.
Crescent City Brew Pub on Decatur in the Quarter is nice for beer and food.
Arcadian Brewing is harder to get to, but the last time I was in NOLA they
were building a new trolley line in front of it.
Bulldog is a nice, small, loud pub with a good selection of taps on Magazine
Street near Audubon Park.
Cooter Browns has a wide selection of beers and caters to the college crowd
where the St. Charles streetcar turns onto Carrollton.
I hope it's all still there.  I guess I'll find out next weekend.

Jeff Gladish, Tampa




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Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 00:32:02 -0500
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: New Orleans d.b.a.

Byron said:
> In my personal opinion, the best beer bar in the city is DBA
Yes! That's the name of the place! In Faubourg Marigny, on Frenchman.
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beerfly/user_reviews/1204/
http://www.drinkgoodstuff.com/no/default.asp

I went there during the African Studies meeting last Fall and really 
liked d.b.a. Nice ambiance. I like the fact that they have little 
"nooks." Quite nice.
Good beer selection, especially for those who like European beers. It's 
the first place where I had McChouffe on tap. They also have Chimay 500 
on tap, which can be nice...

It's also a really nice part of town. Less touristic than the French 
Quarter. More interesting architecturally...

BTW, as you probably know, in the French Quarter, you're allowed to 
drink in the streets. There's nothing like drinking a bottle of Orval 
while walking in the quieter parts of the French Quarter... It's also 
cheaper than bars...

Cheers!
AleX in South Bend, IN http://dispar.blogspot.com
[129.7mi, 251.5] Apparent Rennerian


Alexandre
http://dispar.blogspot.com/



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Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 01:19:05 -0500
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: Round two - Enzymes and step mashing

Mike Wright wants more ...

>So please allow me to reduce the responses into practical
>steps [...]

>If I want a dry pale ale, then I would like a highly fermentable
>wort-easier said than done. To make steps toward a highly fermentable
>beer, I am hearing that a one approach might be a fairly simple two step
>mash (I've just taken a stab at duration):
>
> 1) Mash-in at ~60C(140F) for 45 minutes
>
> - Theoretically this should fully gelatinize the starches, slow the rate
of
>BA denaturization and increase the fermentability of the wort (hopefully
>resulting in a dryer beer).

Too cold.  Barley malt start gelatinizes at 64-67C(147-152.5F) and the curve
is pretty sharp at the specific temperature, so you certainly won't get full
gelatinization at 60C for 45 minutes.   Yes, eventually (many hours) you
could get most of the starch extracted even at 60C, but the same extent of
extraction and gelatinization would take only minutes at 65-67C.

What this cold mash-in will actually do is quite a bit different that you
expect:
1/ The temp is low & long enough that it will probably over-degrade the
proteins and make for a thin bodied, poor head beer.  This even detracts
from flavor.
2/  45 minutes at 60C will certainly convert the *available* fraction of
starch (perhaps 40-60% of normal extract) of starch available into highly
fermentable wort but this long rest will also cause the loss of most of your
beta-amylase over 45 minutes!  As soon as you raise the temp for a higher
rest the remaining 40-60% of starch will gelatinize (more slowly w/ the
sugars present) but there will be little beta-amylase activity so half the
starch has become high fermentability extract, and the other half is low
fermentability extract.  The wort will be of normal or perhaps somewhat low
attenuation !

 >2) Increase the mash temp to ~70C(158F) and rest for ~30 minutes

The 70C rest will cause (almost) complete gelatinization of remaining starch
in minutes and there is plenty of time for AA degradation at 70C.  The small
amount of remaining BA will rapidly denature at this temp - tho' it's impact
is not negligible in the first several minutes at 70C.

> - This will increase the dextrins in the beer, which will reduce the
>fermtability but should still maintain a fairly highly fermentable beer
>because of the fist step at a lower temp.

Right idea, but you had so little of the starch in solution at 60C and the
rest was long so there was little BA in the high rest.  Also you are down at
proteolysis range at 60C and head and body will usually suffer.  You'd be
better advised to mash-in at 62C-63C for 20 minutes and then bump to 70C ..
better starch extraction, avoids protein loss and more BA for the high rest,
but of course this isn't ideal either.

Making high fermentability wort from enzyme poor PA malt is a challenge (but
the losers are still quite drinkable).  The big problem is a fundamental
one.  To avoid excessive proteolysis we want to stay above say 62C.  To
optimize beta-amylase usage we want to stay below 65C.   We can't get the
barley malt starch gelatinized (making it accessible to enzyme degradation)
till around 64C-67C .. so there definitely is no ideal solution.

 *IF* we could separate the starch from the malt enzymes then the problem
would be simple.  You gelatinize the heck out of the starch (decoct it or do
a cereal mash at very high temp) then you cool to about 63C and add in the
enzymes.

There are several ways to approach this ideal, but I'll include these in a
separate post.

 -S



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Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 20:27:43 -0600
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: New Orleans Beer Places

>From: Bob Barrett <bob.barrett at gmail.com>
>Subject: New Orleans Beer Places
>
>Going to New Orleans the last weekend in April for one
>afternoon/evening.  What are two beer places where I have to go?
They
>could be brewpubs or beer bars.  Not that interested in the food they
>serve.  Just the beer.

You gotta be kidding, New Orleans, and not interested in the food!

Forget the brewpubs, they are a dime a dozen. Go to Alex Patout in the
French Quarter and have a fabulous dining experience.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde




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Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:19:06 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: New Orleans

I'll be in New Orleans myself around that time, and here are the places on
my list. This is from memory, so please forgive any mistakes...

1) dba - on Frenchman street. An offshoot of the original New York beer bar.
2) Cooter Brown's - on St. Charles in the Riverbend area. 
3) Bulldog's - on Magazine(?) towards Riverbend but not as far as Cooter's
4) World of Beer(?) - on the first cross street if you walk from Canal into
the Quarter on Bourbon. One block to the right, if memory serves. Only a
decent selection compared to other beer bars, but maybe the best in the
Quarter.
5) There's a couple Irish bars in the Quarter that serve a good Guinness...

As far as brewpubs, I haven't visited Crescent City Brew Pub in years, but I
hear it's improved and will probably visit this time.

As far as beer stores, there's a place right on the river near the French
Market (Decatur street?) and one near K Paul's restaurant (I think this one
is called Vieux Carre Wine and Liquor). Both have good selection of "walking
around" barley wines ;-) and they both provide cups.

Hope this helps.

Mark
Atlanta, GA




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Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:42:40 +0100
From: Signalbox Brewery <signalbox.brewery at ntlworld.com>
Subject: Step mashing

Michael Wright says

" 2) Increase the mash temp to ~70C(158F) and rest for ~30 minutes
  - This will increase the dextrins in the beer, which will reduce the
fermentability but should still maintain a fairly highly fermentable beer
because of the first step at a lower temp.

and asks "Am I on track?"

Close Michael. The second rest won't increase dextrins because
the alpha will chop them up, but perhaps not as much as if there
had been an unlimited supply of beta amylase.

But yes, the 60-70 mash will produce a highly fermentable dry wort.
My thanks to Steve - I was going to try and write an article on this and
when I have fully digested his erudite comments it will be the better
for it (and credited).

I set up a mash with a beta rest at 64 and the mash actually
dropped from 64 to 62 and after 45 minutes it failed the starch test.
The brewster (my wife) raised the temperature to 68 and it dropped
back to 66 at the end of 90 minutes. The liquor was treated with
phosphoric acid so she achieved a mash pH of 5.3 with a
very pale malt (low pH is especially beneficial to beta activity)
This resulted in a strikingly thin beer and apparent attenuation
(by refractometer) from 1039 to 1005 which I must check with
a hydrometer.

The hopping (all Cascade) was somewhat harsh given the low
balancing sweetness) and I'm sure that the reduction in body
was also assisted by the use of highly diastatic low-colour Maris
Otter pale malt (ie kilned to lager malt colour).

Anyway, it proved that it is quite straightforward to produce
a beer that is really too thin and dry to be pleasant with no special
techniques or ingredients. Nevertheless, She Who Must Be
Obeyed insisted that the beer was the bees knees.

The judges agreed. Congratulations to Janette Edge of the Signalbox
Brewery Derby. Second prize in the (UK) Sixth National Craft
Brewing Festival. Not bad for a first brew!

Just (very) jealous
David Edge
Derby UK



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