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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  link of the week - beer bottles (Bob Devine)
  Subject: re: Round two - Enzymes Next question ("MARTIN AMMON")
  MHTG Big & Huge Competition (Eric Schoville)
  Belgian Yeast Strains at High Temps -- Summary (Matt)
  Another (more interesting) question about Belgians (Matt)
  Belgian question ("Spencer W. Thomas")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



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Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:27:31 -0600
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: link of the week - beer bottles

Stubbies, bombers, long-necks.  Yup, we've used
them all.  As homebrewers, everyone has bottled
their batches.

Bottle color and blocking of skunking light:
http://realbeer.com/spencer/bottle.html

Overview on plastic bottles, a quickly growing segment.
http://www.ift.org/publications/docshop/ft_shop/
04-00/04_00_pdfs/04-00-p&t-pkg.pdf

Bob Devine
Riverton, UT
[Some have asked why there was a gap in my postings,
well, my father died and I was email-less.]


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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:18:47 -0500
From: "MARTIN AMMON" <SURFSUPKS at KC.RR.COM>
Subject: Subject: re: Round two - Enzymes Next question

Thanks S
 Learning a lot but one question what happens when you throw in the fact
that during the mash you are reticulating the wort from Mash to coil water
tank back to Mash. Maintaining the set temps and clearing and  wort.

M. Ammon



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Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:16:47 -0500
From: Eric Schoville <eric at schoville.com>
Subject: MHTG Big & Huge Competition

The Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild is proud to sponsor the 17th
Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition.

Awards will be presented in five categories. The Best of Show beer will
receive the coveted WOOLY MAMMOTH plaque. New for this year is the
HAIRLESS MOUSE plaque awarded to the winner of the CMS category. The
competition is sanctioned by the Beer Judge Certification Program and
will follow its competition procedures. Each beer will be evaluated
according to Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) style guidelines as
indicated by the brewer. Please contact us if you are interested in
judging or stewarding.

When: Saturday, April 16th
10:00 am (Drop off preregistered entries)
11:00 am (Judging begins)

Where: Great Dane, Fitchburg, 2980 Cahill Main, Fitchburg, Wisconsin

Categories: Category Original Specific Gravity

Big Ale 1.050 to 1.060
Big Lager 1.050 to 1.060
Huge Ale >1.060
Huge Lager >1.060
CMS (Ciders, Meads & Sakes) >1.050

Entry Requirements: Three 12 ounce or larger bottles per entry. Bottles
and caps should have no labels or identifying marks. Attach one
completed entry form to each bottle with a rubber band. Include an entry
fee check payable to the Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild.

Entry Fee: $5 per entry

Entry Deadline: Deliver entries to Big & Huge Competition, c/o Wine &
Hop Shop, 1931 Monroe Street, Madison, WI 53711 until Thursday, April
14th. Affix a copy of the registration form to each bottle with a rubber
band. Preregistered entries may be brought to the competition on April
16^th between 10:00 and 11:00 am. To preregister, email a copy of the
registration form for each entry by Wednesday, April 13th, to
hulsie2002 at yahoo.com or mail to Mark Schnepper at 547 S. Sixth St., 
Evansville, WI 53536.

Further Info:

The MHTG website at www.mhtg.org
Mark Alfred at hulsie2002 at yahoo.com or
Mark Schnepper at mschnepper at yahoo.com


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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:41:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Belgian Yeast Strains at High Temps -- Summary

A week ago I posted asking people to share their
experiences with fermentation of Belgian yeasts at
higher temperatures.  Thanks to everyone who
responded.  For people looking for Belgian yeasts to
use at high temps, the following may be helpful:

1. Several different people have had success with
Wyeast 3522 Ardennes at even extremely high
temperatures (80+ degrees).  One such respondent
guessed that his fermentation exceeded 90 degrees F. 
If this is the La Chouffe yeast, as abundant rumor
suggests, then the claim of 86 degree ferments at
Brasserie D'Achouffe in Rajotte's book is consistent
with this.  No bad results were reported with this
yeast in the responses I got.

2. One person reported mildly disappointing results
(NOT ENOUGH esters/etc) at 70-75 degrees with Wyeast
3724 Saison.  I was referred to the new book on
"Farmhouse Ales" for confirmation that Belgian
commercial saisons are often fermented at or above 80
degrees F.

3. More than one source noted that for the strains
that perform well at high temps, attenution may suffer
if the temp is below about 70.

4. Trappist-type strains, especially Chimay, are still
a source of confusion.  There was one report of good
results with WLP500 at 76 degrees, with just splashing
for aeration and using a yeast starter.  This is
supposedly a Chimay strain, but many report that it is
quite different from Wyeast 1214 which is also
supposedly Chimay.  One person reported good results
with a Chimay culture in the upper 70s.  However, many
sources (HBD, web pages, private emails) state quite
firmly that Wyeast 1214 and 3787 (supposedly
Westmalle) really begin to have solventy-flavor
problems once you get above 70 degrees.  Probably
there is a bit of a gray area where aeration,
amount/quality of yeast pitched, and wort composition
allow people to get good or bad results in the 70s
with these strains.  I had no reports (good or bad) of
how these strains perform above 80.

4. WLP550 performed well at 73-75 degrees for one
person, with lots of yeast pitched (yeast cake from
primary) but just the "pinhole racking cane" for
aeration.

5. There were some experiences suggesting that Wyeast
3944 is not a great choice for high temp ferments, and
performs better at or below 70.

My overall impressions are that Wyeast 3522 and the
Saison strains from Wyeast and White Labs are great a
high temps, and may even require them for optimum
performance.  While it seems possible to make good
beer with Trappist-type strains in the mid 70s, there
also seems to be no reason not to ferment these at 67
if you can.  There is reason to suspect that some of
the other random Wyeast Belgians (Forbidden Fruit,
Canadian/Belgian, etc) may do well at high temps but
no specific examples were given.  I would be very
interested to hear anyone's experience with
Belgain/Canadian especially, since the rumor is that
Unibroue ferments well into the 80s for at least some beers.


		


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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:54:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Another (more interesting) question about Belgians

It is well documented that very young Belgian-style
homebrews are sometimes undrinkable due to an excess
of banana or bubblegum esters, or nail-polish-type
solventy flavors.  It is also well documented that
these defects often result from high temperature
fermentations.

It has been suggested that in nearly all cases these
flavors/aromas will age out, given enough time.  My
question is:

Are "great" Belgian-style ales always drinkable when
they are fresh out of the secondary?  One month old? 
Is overpowering banana or solvent really a defect when
then beer is so young, or are such flavors inevitable
with these yeasts, and guaranteed to age into deliciousness?


		


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Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:08:53 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Belgian question

Matt asks "Are "great" Belgian-style ales always drinkable when
they are fresh out of the secondary? "

In my experience, no.

One of the best beers I ever made (twice) was not very good out of the
secondary.  It was a spiced strong (blond) Belgian-style ale.  Roughly a
"triple" recipe with lots of pils malt and the requisite 10% or so of
sugar for an OG of 1.080 and a FG around 1.010.  First time, I used "La
Chouffe" yeast from (the late, lamented) YCKC.  Second time I used "Fin
de Monde" yeast from the same source.  Both times, the beers continued
to improve with age and peaked (as far as I can tell) at about 3 years.
  Of course, both were also almost all gone at 3 years. :-)

Now, part of this may be due to the spices (cardamom, orange peel, maybe
something else) "mellowing out".  All I know is that when young, the
beers were all "spiky" with lots of individual flavor peaks.  As they
aged they became more "rounded" and harmonious, with the flavors all
working together.

=S



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