---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

                  This Space For Rent
      Visit http:// to show your appreciation!

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Kvass and Quick Drinks (Alexandre Enkerli)
  re: Kettle Braid ("Williams, Rowan")
  Motorizing a Philmill. ("Dan Listermann")
  Delayed cooling ("Dan Listermann")
  Current events + lager temps ("Jason Gross")
  Fermentation, Esters, Fusels (Matt)


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*           The HBD Logo Store is now open!             *
*            http://www.hbd.org/store.html              *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*  Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*   Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:06:25 -0500
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Kvass and Quick Drinks

Been thinking about this while reading Mosher's /Radical Brewing/. 
Can't brew right now (living on a dry campus) but will soon be back to 
brew-friendly Montreal.
Have people experimented with kvass and other quickly fermented drinks? 
One advantage I see is that one could experiment with all sorts of 
flavourings (herbs, spices, fruits...) and then transfer some of those 
experiments to beer. It sounds like kvass itself was often flavoured 
with peppermint. Also, it seems to have some of sourness/tartness which 
could in fact make it quite refreshing...
Using some homebrew ingredients and methods, we could probably make 
something quite decent and very thirst quenching. Boiling with hops, 
using pure yeast, etc.

I'm thinking about different grains to complement the rye, playing with 
some "crazier" herbs and spices (I personally like hibiscus flowers), 
using some of those sugars (jaggery, turbinado...), etc. Then, 
experimenting with microflora could be cool too (say, with 
lactobacillus). Plus, it should be easy, cheap, and quick enough to do. 
Trying a few small batches shouldn't be too much of an issue.

A related theme is that of fermenting the last runnings of a normal 
mash. Of course, it's been a common method in many parts of the world 
but the idea here is to go wild with it and do different experiments.

None of these would be normal-strength in beer terms. That's ok, there 
are times we need other things to drink besides good homebrew.

Because oxydation doesn't need to be an issue, bottling in plastic 
could be easy and economical. You can then "bleed" the bottle once in a 
while if carbonation is too strong but one would think that putting 
those in the fridge would slow fermentation enough that you can drink 
the thing for a couple of days...

No, I don't mean to enter any of this in homebrew comps or to try and 
impress fellow brewers with them. They're just to have fun and, 
hopefully, to get some refreshing drinks that you care less about than 
good beer.

Anybody has experimented with these ideas? The archives have kvass 
recipes and a few comments but how about experimentation?

Cheers!

AleX in South Bend, IN
http://dispar.blogspot.com/



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:06:35 +1000
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: re: Kettle Braid

Thanks for the reply, Michel, and all those helpful brewers who PM'd me!

>Good day, Rowan! How's the home brew scene in your area of Australia?

In the nation's capital, Canberra, the brewing scene is on the up and up
thanks to an active brew club and an enthusiastic (some would say driven
;-)) club president - Stephen Neilsen (aka Dr. Ulysses S. Kurtz!)  - who is
busily preparing for the Big Brew Day 2005 (Canbeera Chapter) at Kastle
Kurtz and a phone hookup with our US bretheren on the day (or evening
depending on which end of the phone you're on!)...

We are looking forward to the onset of winter where we eagerly consume pint
after pint of dark ales and lagers and prepare to brew the pale and amber
thirst quenchers in anticipation of another long, hot, dry summer at the end
of the year!  I have a Yorkshire Bitter and an Irish Red Ale conditioning
and a Dry Stout nearing the end of primary as I type!

>I take it you are going to be using unlined braided SS hose, right?

You betcha - the Happy Hooker I intend to fit into the kettle is 2m long
(about 6.5 feet) so I'm hopeful that this sort of length is sufficient.
I've been given a very simple and effective solution to shape up the braided
hose (er, after I pull out the rubber lining, of course); I can run a length
of copper wire up the hose braid to help me form up the shape that I want
the braided hose to take, within the kettle.  

>The caveat if I recall correctly was that he had to use a lot of braided 
>unlined SS hose to do what you're planning.  It looked like a spiral 
>with a center draw off to the drain, and the outside end was simply 
>blinded off.

Noted - I'll make sure that I don't stretch the hose - the last thing I want
is a canyon-like opening for the pellet debris to enter...In fact, I will
probably start to use plugs and (hopefully home grown) flowers in addition
to the pellets to aid in the filtration.  Does the whirlpool lift the pellet
debris into the centre of the kettle or is it the case that pellet residue
is too light and simply settles where it sees fit after the whirlpool?

>I feel that a simple wire mesh screen tube works just as well, albeit not 
>for pellets as they will plug a screen right away...[snip]

Therein lies my problem - I almost exclusively use pellets.  I note that, at
least within this digest, opinions tend to vary about the risk of blockages
with braided hose - some do, some don't.  Anyway, I'll give it a go and see
what happens, but I'm not looking forward to a worst case scenario of having
to clean out a CFWC!!  

>The only concern I have is what kind of heat source do you use?  

Three ring burner and I'll place a heat shield around the keg base to
minimise wind effects outside, yet still permit airflow.  It delivers a nice
strong rolling boil, but admittedly does take a while to build up a head of
steam, pardon the pun!!

Cheers,
 
Rowan Williams 
Canberra Brewers Club 
[9588.6, 261.5] AR (statute miles)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
If you have received this transmission in error please notify us 
immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail 
or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does 
not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright 
in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. 


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:28:20 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Motorizing a Philmill.

Randy Pressley writes,"I'm curious as to why there is a warning in the 
manual
about not motorizing the Phil's mill?  "  I am not sure where he got this 
idea but the instructions actually tell you how to motorize the Philmill. 
We highly recommend powering Philmills with 1/2" corded electric drills. 
They can triple manual throughput with a whole lot less sweat.

Dan Listermann 





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:07:17 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Delayed cooling


Michael J. Brown discusses the effect on delayed cooling which he feels 
could cause diacetyl and maybe DMS.  I cool in sealed containers with a 
large fan.  I use cornys with over pressurized N2 ( not CO2 or O2 ), five 
gallon buckets with gasketed lids, sankeys with a tri-clover seal, 15 gallon 
plastic barrels and even plastic bags contained in headless plastic barrels. 
This practice maintains the pasteurizing effect of the boil.  When I first 
tried this, I expected diacetyl since that is a common belief.  I did not 
find it or DMS in my beers.  I have been cooling this way for about three 
years now.  None of the beers that I have entered in competitions have ever 
been noted as having this fault.

This subject came up with Lynn Kruger of Sieble at the AHA conference in 
Chicago a couple of years ago.  I believe it was in reference to whirlpools 
and the delay in cooling that they see.  She said that diacetyl will not 
form if the wort is cooled below 140 in 90 minutes.  This explains why I 
don't have this problem with my fan cooled beers since 140 is no problem in 
that time frame.

I developed this method of cooling to try to brew almost anaerobically.  The 
idea was to cool in a sealed corny and inject liquid yeast into it with O2 
using antifoam to control foam.  The only air exposure in this process was 
the yeast injection.  The fan cooling method's great advantage is that you 
don't have to pitch the yeast until you want to and I seem to have 
eliminated lactic infections in my summer brewing.   I realize that most 
brewers would find this useless, but we have been making wort for sale here 
in five gallon buckets.  They keep for months this way.

Dan Listermann 





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:54:54 -0600
From: "Jason Gross" <jrgross at hotmail.com>
Subject: Current events + lager temps

I hate to be a pessimist, but the future looks grim, people.

A story in today's local paper reads:

"Lowest-ever Barley Crop Forecast
By BLAKE NICHOLSON, Associated Press Writer

Barley in the nation's top-producing state is likely to hit rock-bottom this 
year.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture is projecting North Dakota production to 
be 1.2 million acres, only three-fourths the size of the 2004 crop and the 
lowest level in recorded history..."

Also heard on the radio this morning that the hops in Washington and Oregon 
(80+% of US crop) are starting to feel the effects of draught.  This year's 
harvest isn't looking good.

Hopefully the yeast won't go on strike.  Any thoughts on what their signs 
would read?

==

On to mandatory brewing content.  I searched the archives and found a lot of 
first lager jitters questions, but not this one.

I recently finished setting up a converted chest freezer.  She's a big old 
dog.  Ten corny's and a CO2 tank so far.  Therefore, my old beer fridge has 
been converted into a lagering control facility.  I brewed a Maerzen last 
weekend (I know it was late) as the inaugural batch.  I'm looking forward to 
turning Jeff Renner's CACA into CAP.  Sounds biblical.

Now, the yeasts' optimal fermentation temp is 48 F.  I've got the Ranco set 
to turn on at 53 F and off at 46 F, where the temperature is measured in the 
enclosed air.  Is this OK?  What's an acceptable temp swing?  What about 
when I ease it down to lagering temps?  I'd like to increase the range, so I 
don't burn out the compressor in one season.  Any objections?  The fridge is 
in a soon-to-be hot garage.  What are good settings?  My thoughts are 31-39; 
but that sounds kind of warm on the high end, although it probably won't be 
there too long.  Sorry for thinking out loud.

Thanks,

Jason Gross
Mandan, ND




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:34:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Fermentation, Esters, Fusels

Thanks for the help, AJ and Steve.  I have not had a
Tetleys since AJ's post, but I had a Piraat the other
day (on draft but I don't know if it matters) and I
think that may be an example of high ethyl acetate. 
Not too bad a beer though.

Since I posted my question on esters and fusels, I've
read and thought a bit more about fermentation and
tried to come up with the simplest view of it that
still captures what I've been able to absorb from the
more science-oriented posts on the HBD.  I wonder if
people would agree that the following does that--if so
I wish someone or some book had told my these things
(and not filled my head with other things) when I
started brewing.

1. When you pitch the yeast, each cell has a "lag
time" while it reaches some rough equilibrium with its
new surroundings, and then it begins fermentation.

2. The rate of this fermentation is determined by
yeast energy needs, so it only occurs at a reasonable
rate when a cell is actively reproducing.

3. Hence, in a decent fermentation the total yeast
growth is proportional to the amount of sugars
consumed (i.e. a specific amount of yeast growth is
required for a given beer).  I think Steve agrees with
this.

4. This required amount of total yeast growth can only
occur if there are sufficient nutrients (FAN, amino
acids, minerals).  If a nutrient runs out before the
sugars do, fermentation will "stick."  In an all-malt
all-grain wort these should be present.  As extract
ages, some nutrients may become bound up in reactions,
hence extract beers may require added nutrients.

5. Since we require a given amount of growth, choosing
the pitching rate is the same thing as choosing how
many generations of yeast will have to be produced.
(!)

6. To keep reproducing for a given number of
generations, the initial yeast cells must store up
enough cell-wall material (sterols).  Oxygen is
required to make this material.  It cannot be made
once fermentation activity is significant, because the
oxygen is quickly scrubbed out of the wort by the CO2
bubbles.  (I am ignoring trub and late oxygen
additions.)  Hence, the fermentation go to completion
only if the average cell of pitching yeast gets enough
oxygen to make and store enough sterols to reproduce
for the required number of generations.

7. Some or maybe even all of this oxygen can be
provided in a yeast starter.  Hence, for those of us
without oxygen tanks, etc, making a well-aerated yeast
starter can really help.  

8. For a given temperature and yeast strain, there is
basically a set amount of fusel, ester, and diacetyl
production that will occur during a full, strong
fermentation.  Pitching rate, aeration level, etc,
don't matter much as long as the fermentation is
strong to completion.  If the fermentation "sticks"
(i.e. something else runs out before the sugar does)
then additional fusels and esters may be produced, and
the yeast will not be healthy enough to reduce the
diacetyl.

Maybe I was out of the loop, but the vast majority of
this was completely lost on me as a beginner, even
after reading the popular books.  This may be because
these statements are not true.  One innaccuracy may be
if "second generation" cells also have access to
oxygen, but it doesn't change much.  I'd appreciate
any comments on whether this picture is the truth, and
where it may be glaringly not the whole truth.

Matt
reply to baumgart at myway dot com
















Return to table of contents

---