---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  We're Back (Rob Gardner)
  Various topics (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #475 (August 15, 1990) (Carol Hatcher)
  Bouncing Carboys; Thermometers (Martin A. Lodahl)
  racking fermented out beer (Donald P Perley)
  Gushers, part III (Tom Hotchkiss)
  Re: Papazian and Old/New Testament of homebrewing (Chris Shenton)
  Mead? (With the heart of an adventurer and the s...)
  small minds (mage!lou)
  Lotsa little comments (CRF)
  Brian Capouch's thermometer poll (Mike Meyer)
  Trub and flavor (POST)
  racking (Geoffrey Sherwood)
  oxidize that wort (HOLTSFOR)
  Propane burners,  autolysis                (bryan)
  Funnels, cleaning taps (gateh)
  Glass grenades, monitoring fermentation, etc. (CONDOF)
  twins (mike_schrempp)
  re: Resealable Bottles
  re: Hot Peppers & pH
  "Beer Hunter" episodes (CRF)
  gushers (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  oxidation and thermometers (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Juniper (Dave Suurballe)
  Burners (Brian Capouch)
  Finally...whew ("Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503  18-Aug-1990 2335")
  Re: straining hops & oxidation (Alan Duester)
  Where can I find mead/ales (Douglas Allen Luce)
  Wyeast and Beer Hunter (Pete Soper)
  Wyeast and Beer Hunter (Pete Soper)
  Racking and multiple stage fermentations... ("Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503  20-Aug-1990 0931")
  Resealable Bottles (Steve Fowler)
  Oak Chips & the "I-Word" (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Fischer bottles (florianb)
  Rotokegs (GS-11 Nicky Willis;CREPS;)
  Grolsch bottles (Guy D. McConnell)
  "A Brewers' Offering", Boston, MA., August 16, 1990 (Dan Hall  20-Aug-1990 1651)
  The Beer Hunter (Mark.Leone)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Almost Lunch Time
From: rob%hackerbrau.usa.earth at milkyway-relay (Rob Gardner)
Subject: We're Back

One of the sanity checks in my digest program was failing, so I got
a mail message that said approximately "weird digest problem, handle
manually."

So here it is, sorry about the delay. If you sent me mail wondering
about what happened to the digest, thanks for waking me up, but once
again, don't expect a personal reply.

Rob

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Date: Friday, 17 Aug 1990 10:06:51 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Various topics

>Date: Wed, 15 Aug 90 05:19:02 PDT
>From: "Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - " <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>

>5.  Has anyone seen a cap (with the tube holes, etc.) for a 6
>1/2 gallon carboy?  Every one I find is for a 5 gallon, and the
>larger one has a smaller OD neck.  In fact, have you seen a
>handle for the larger volume?  Which reminds me that I have
>wondered about carrying a full carboy by the neck with one of
>those - any chance of snapping it off?

Well, I can't answer all your questions.  But I was fortunate
enough to get a 7 gallon carboy that came in a styrofoam
container for shipping and such.  The styrofoam is in two pieces,
and the bottom piece has handle indentations.

The upshot is that I carry that carboy by the sturdy lower
sytrofoam half, rather than risk snapping the neck.

- ------------------------------

>Date: Thu Aug 16 15:03:41 1990
>From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET

>I only use resealable bottles.  I use two types:  The standard
>16 oz Grolsch bottles, and the 22 oz Fischer bottles.  I get
>these at the local bottle redemption center for 5 cents each.

I have heard this story before.  Can you suggest what steps
someone like myself should take to approach the folks recycling
glass and such on this issue?  I would dearly love to find a way
to get those type bottles, and recycling is starting up in my
area.

>brianc at saintjoe.edu

>I have had several professional brewers snicker at my questions
>about how they avoid oxidizing hot wort, and while I haven't
>actually seen them do it, they tell me that the effects of
>pouring from a boiling pot into a carboy or heat-exchanger would
>be negligible.  Does anyone know for sure about this.

I would also like to hear more info on this.  My limited
understanding always said that oxidation isn't a problem before
you pitch the yeast, only afterwards (unless possibly you wait 24
hours or more before pitching the yeast or something).  So how
can you oxidize your wort while you are aerating it?

>Finally, I'm taking a poll:  what would be a good, sturdy,
>reliable thermometer to use for mashing in a 5-gal stainless
>pot?  I need to get one quickly, so a premium would be placed on
>one I could find at common hardware or mall type stores.

I use a very standard thermometer available in many kitchen
supplies store.  It is made by Taylor, a very good thermometer
manufacturer.  It has a round dial at the top, and comes in a
white tube with a clip on it, so you can clip the thermometer in
your pocket or whatever.  It comes up with a reading in 5 or 10
seconds, and goes from roughly freezing to roughly boiling.  I
use it in all stages of brewing.

ARPANET:  M14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm at mitre.arpa)
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 07:34:43 PDT
From: xilinx!rigel!carolh at uunet.UU.NET (Carol Hatcher)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #475 (August 15, 1990)


In HD #474, Ken Weiss asks:

> A question for those of you using glass primary fermentors - How do
> you get five gallons of hops-filled word strained and inside a glass
> carboy without making a HUGE mess? I thought of a big funnel, but it
> seems like once the hops started collecting in the strainer section
> the flow rate would be too slow. Please enlighten me!

Well, Ken, my method is as follows:  first I use the strainer, the
kind with a handle you can get at any K-Mart or Drug Store or
Market, to scoop out most of the floating hops before pouring the
wort through the strainer-funnel combination.  There will still be
some hops to clog up the strainer, but not much and you can stop
for a moment to dump out the strainer once in a while.  By the by,
hops are really good in the compost heap.  Which reminds me, I
need to add some to the heap before pea planting time.  The sacrifices
I make for the garden!

Carol SW Hatcher

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 7:56:18 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Bouncing Carboys; Thermometers

In HOMEBREW Digest #477, Brian Capouch confessed:

> In an unrelated vein, perhaps I have been committing something
> heretical, but I always just shake my carboys a tad after racking into
> secondary, after placing the airlock on but before adding the water.  I
> assume that a few minutes of bubbling is enough to remove the oxygen
> from the top of the carboy ...

I share your heresy, Brian.  A good, gentle racking doesn't seem to
release much CO2, and the little shake seems both to purge the air
and to rouse the yeast.  I've never had a problem with this.

> I have had several professional brewers snicker at my questions about
> how they avoid oxidizing hot wort, and while I haven't actually seen
> them do it, they tell me that the effects of pouring from a boiling pot
> into a carboy or heat-exchanger would be negligible.  Does anyone know
> for sure about this. 

In all the breweries I've seen, the hot wort moves through pipes
into the bottom of another vessel, so it's never exposed to
agitation & air simultaneously.  The equipment needed to move
commercial volumes of wort assures they'll never see this problem,
so it must seem funny to them.  

> Finally, I'm taking a poll: what would be a good, sturdy, reliable
> thermometer to use for mashing in a 5-gal stainless pot?  I need to get
> one quickly, so a premium would be placed on one I could find at common
> hardware or mall type stores. 

I mashed my first few batches with a candy thermometer, which seemed
to work fine.  Available at any supermarket.  I now use a floating
dairy thermometer, available at many feed stores.

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 11:23:24 EDT
From: perley at glacier.crd.ge.com (Donald P Perley)
Subject: racking fermented out beer



>  However, If you are racking something that is more or less fermented
>out but you're not ready to bottle yet (e.g. barley wine or mead that should
>age in the carboy for a while with several rackings) then this could be a
>problem.

If you are just doing a 2 stage ferment and let the primary go too
long, the easiest way is to dump in maybe a quarter cup of corn sugar
when you rack.  Enough to generate a bunch of CO2, but not enough to
significantly change the alchoholic content or tast of the beer.

 -don perley

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 9:36:14 MDT
From: Tom Hotchkiss <trh at hpestrh.hp.com>
Subject: Gushers, part III
Full-Name: Tom Hotchkiss


> Tom Hotchkiss gave us some interesting stories about gushers and exploders:

> >For safety's sake, if you currently have any gushers, I'd recommend
> >opening all of them ASAP!  By "gusher," I mean that when you open a bottle
> >the beer gushes out violently (i.e. hits the ceiling).  You can wrap the
> >bottles in a heavy towel when handling them to make the procedure safer.
> 
> The part I'm having trouble with after reading his narrative is that if 
> gushers and exploders are present in homebrew, then something must be
> seriously wrong.  If this assumption is correct, then it seems to me that
> steps should be taken to understand what is wrong with the brewing process
> and to also fix it right away.  Even though infection is often assumed as
> the culprit in gushing beer, I maintain that it is more likely secondary
> fermentation in the bottle.  It is extremely important that one should 
> monitor the "seconds per glub" in the secondary carboy, as well as the
> specific gravity.  In addition, it is important to ferment and secondary
> ferment at a nearly constant temperature.  This will reduce yeast shock.

Well, I feel compelled to explain this situation further.  Here are the
facts:

   - I have had 2 batches gush (only one got to the explosion stage).

   - In both cases, I let fermentation go for 4 to 6 weeks before
     bottling (should be plenty).

   - In both batches, I used EDME Ale Yeast.

   - In both cases, the beer remained fairly flat for at least 2 to 4
     weeks.  The overcarbonation happens gradually, and the beer
     doesn't reach the gusher stage for at least 2 months (maybe longer).

Finally, I have made two changes in my brewing which has so far fixed the
problem.  First, I replaced all my plastic stuff and became more religous
about sanitation.  Second, I switched from EDME to Wyeast (I was already
using 1 quart starters for pitching and was getting lag times < 6 hours).

Some other folks on the net reported nearly identical behavior, and EDME
Ale Yeast was constant in all the reports.  So, I'm pretty sure that the
problem was related to the EDME yeast (I can't be 100% positive since
I changed two things at once).  Note that I have made many successful
batches with EDME before, but I heard rumors that EDME had some
contamination problems, so I tried Wyeast.  As a final comment, I'm
glad I switched since the liquid yeast improved my beer significantly.

Hope this clears things up.

Tom Hotchkiss

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 11:28:20 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Papazian and Old/New Testament of homebrewing

SILL D E writes:
> Pete Soper writes:
> > With all due respect to Mr. Papazian, his book is getting old fast. Could
> > I suggest that we look on it as the Old Testament of American homebrewing?
> 
> Okay, so what's the New Testament?

How about a HBD project to compile a homebrewing book? There are already a
number of ``how to brew your first beer'' notes around, and plenty of
`experts' :-). 

Perhaps tutorial chapters on appropriate topics, like Papazian's, then
appendices for extract recipes, all-grain recipes, equipment & fabrication,
and so on.  We could certainly publish a compendium of the best recipes
from the HBD crew.  Anyone want to volunteer to do a chapter? pick your
subjects! I'd be willing to typeset it with LaTeX...

PS: Isn't there a USENET Cookbook with a similar idea?



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Date:     Fri, 17 Aug 90 12:23 EDT
From: <BILODEAP%BCVMS.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu> (With the heart of an adventurer and the s...)
Subject:  Mead?

This is a request.....

Does *anyone* out there have a good recipe for mead that one
relatively new to this sort of thing can throw together?

TIA,
Peter

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 10:29:44 MDT
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: small minds

FLAME ON.

In HBD #477 Bob Gorman goes into a self-indulgent sermon on the glories of
Grolsh bottles, the stupidity of capping, and the laziness of kegging.

>So what's you opinion?

My opinion is that this particular argument surfaces here about every two
months and I'm getting tired of it.  The method of packaging one's beer is a
matter of personal preference and is more likely to be determined by individual
circumstances than by universal truths.  Each method has advantages and
disadvantages and it is up to the individual to determine which is best for him
or her.  While I am very interested in learning all I can about the various
options in order to make an informed decision for myself, your prejudices are
irrelevant.

If you really want to know people's opinions, read the archives.  This topic
appears repeatedly there.

FLAME OFF

Louis Clark
(Sorry folks, I'm having a bad day and this rot really set me off.)


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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 12:34 EST
From: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
Subject: Lotsa little comments

Hi, all!

I would like to begin by offering my apologies to those who have addressed 
questions to me recently, and who have been awaiting a reply.  I simply have 
had no spare time in which to post.

This in turn means that, in this posting, I shall be playing "catch-up". 
Thus, I shall be addressing a variety of recent topics. 

Regarding mead, and in answer to Gary Benson's query about honey inhibiting 
yeast growth:  while I cannot answer that question specifically, I can say 
something.  Honey is in and of itself a preservative.  Definitely, it's a mold 
inhibitor.  It's also a very concentrated substance, as far as fermentables 
go.  By this I mean that (for example) a cup of honey if analyzed would have a
have a higher ratio of sugar:water than malt extract.  There are no doubt 
other interesting things in the makeup of honey as well.  

Therefore, I can see it being quite possible that yeast growth ends up being
inhibited.  What I picture is this:  the yeastie beasties get going, passing 
quickly through the exponential portion of the growth curve.  As this is 
happening, and alcohol is being produced, concentrations and osmotic pressures 
are changing on the molecular level.  Shortly, conditions reach a point where 
they are no longer completely favorable to yeast growth, and the yeastie 
beasties quit.

Assuming that I am correct (and for all I know, I'm wrong), then I don't think 
yeast nutrients would help.  Changing some of your recipe's ingredient 
proportions, however, might.  If you'd like, send me your recipe and I'll see 
if I can find any loopholes in it.

Also, about yeast use in mead:  definitely, Montrechet or some sort of chablis 
or sauterne yeast is preferable.  I have found that yeasts suitable for more 
highly carbonated beverages, such as ales and champagnes, tend to produce over
 -carbonated meads.  Like, to the point of glass grenades!  I have had 2 
instances of exploding bottles during my brewing career.  The second was a 
batch of mead in 16-oz Grolsch bottles.  I had cooked up the mead, and 
pitched some chablis yeast at the proper time.  Turned out the *&$&#$%^& yeast 
was dead.  The only other thing I had to hand was some ale yeast, so I used 
that.  Hence, the glass grenades.  And those bottles that didn't go *BOOM!!* 
were terribly over-carbonated.

(The first instance of exploding bottles-- since this too is a current topic-- 
was from my very first batch of beer; I had bottled too soon.)

To Joe Uknalis, who wrote about his cloudy mead:  first time I have ever heard 
of this happening without an *obvious* case of infection.  If you send me your 
recipe, maybe I can detect the source of the problem.

And speaking of over-carbonization:  might an answer to the EDME yeast problem 
be to allow the brew to rest for a few days before bottling?  Miller, if I 
remember correctly, speaks about the potential benefits of a rest.  I'm 
thinking that if fermentation re-started, as has been described, one could 
detect it and allow it to go a while longer before bottling.  Thus, the over-
carbonization might be avoided.

The EDME discussion brought something else to mind:  it seems that for every 
discussion on this forum singing the praises of some product (especially 
yeasts), another discussion occurs at some point regarding all kinds of 
problems with the same product.  Specifically, I am remembering the lengthy 
discussion some time back about how wonderful EDME is, which prompted me to 
buy some (my local supply shop at that time carried only poorer-quality dry 
yeasts; recently they've started carrying Wyeast).  Now comes a discussion 
about consistent over-carbonization problems.  What's a poor brewer to think, 
hmmmmm?  :-)

If snowflakes keep falling in your beer, I would consider several 
possibilities, depending on the nature of the recipe you used.  

Firstly, there are some ingredients (principally fruits) that seem to
inevitably introduce harmless wild yeasts that in no way affect the brew, but
which cannot be avoided.  This first happened to me when I brewed up a batch
of Papazian's "Cherries in the Snow"-- as many on this forum no doubt
remember.  It has also happened to me with my framboise.  I've heard of the
same happening to many other brewers who have made a brew containing fruit.  
Not to worry!

Then, it's possible that little bits of dead yeast were caught by surface 
tension after being lifted to the surface during the in-bottle fermentation.

Finally, there is of course the possibility of a contaminating yeast having 
been present in the original yeast culture.

Jalapeno beer sounds... interesting... I'm a hot-n-spicy nut myself, and just 
might try this.  My only hesitation lies in the fact that lately, all the 
jalapenos I've seen for sale have been waxed.  Boo, hiss!  Not desireable.  

Based on my cooking experience, though, I think I can safely offer the 
following comments:  the "hot" in peppers is a matter of volatile oils; acid 
or acidity doesn't enter the picture.  Moreover, slicing will allow more oils 
to be extracted.  And remember that the *seeds* are the hottest part; whether 
or not one includes them as well can make a drastic difference!

Also, a word of warning when using hot peppers:  either wear gloves, which you 
was afterwards, or wash your hands *repeatedly* with hot, soapy water.  During 
handling do *NOT* touch other parts of your body, especially your eyes!  Those 
same volatile oils can actually cause skin burns, and what they can do to your 
eyes you don't wanna know!  The same holds true for the implements used; and I 
personally would recommend using a plastic cutting board, not wood (the *only* 
time I don't use wood!).

Racking the wort off of the trub before pitching the yeast is a spectacularly
wonderful idea-- the sort that makes you smack your forehead and say to
yourself "*why* didn't I think of this?"  If I can get my roommate to tolerate 
my keeping a second fermenter in the kitchen, I intend to start doing it.

And about pouring over the wort, and straining it:  this is why someone 
invented hops bags, which I wouldn't be without.  Haven't had any problems 
since I started using them.  This is also why I'm shopping for adjunct bags 
before trying an oatmeal stout.

About regarding TCJoHB as "Old Testament":  some books are so well written, 
and so instructive and relevant, that they are *always* useful.  Especially 
for beginners.  For me, TCJoHB ranks among these.  I don't think it will ever 
become obsolete.

While I don't grow my own hops, I do know about handling and drying herbs, of 
which hops is one.  Like the "hot" in chilies, the desirable elements in hops 
are mostly volatile oils.  As in most herbs, these oils are photoreactive.  In 
other words, they will react with sunlight and break down.  Sunlight can also 
cause other forms of damage.  In addition, one wants moisture to both 
evaporate and be carried off, or mold can grow.  Thus, the general rule in 
drying herbs of any sort is to hang them in a dim area where they will not be 
exposed to sunlight, and where there is sufficient air circulation to carry 
off the moisture as it evaporates.  Good examples (depending on the climate 
you live in) are attics, hallways, and near air conditioning vents.

Finally (yes, I'm almost through...), to whomever was requesting framboise 
recipes:  I'll try to post mine shortly.


                         Yours in Carbonation,

                                      Cher 


"With one tuckus, you can't dance at two weddings." -- Yiddish proverb
=============================================================================

	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF at UFPINE
	Gainesville, FL

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 10:08:17 PDT
From: meyer at tcville.hac.com (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Brian Capouch's thermometer poll


I use a meat thermometer: it has adequate resolution, a very quick response
time, and is mostly metal, hence unbreakable.  I splurged and got one that
cost about 12-16 dollars.  It's also good for cooking roasts and turkeys.
:-)  I don't expect they are hard to find, either; I got mine at a cooking
store, but I've seen them at grocery stores, dimestores, and some hardware
places that sell cookery.

My roommate uses one of those floating glass dairy thermometers, but only
to check temperature while cooling the wort.  No way I'd use it for mashing,
and it takes about 10 minutes to come up to temperature.  

A candy thermometer probably would work, too, but I get nervous looking at
the mercury through the glass, and I'm terribly clumsy.

Mike Meyer
meyer at tcville.HAC.COM

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 10:15 PDT
From: POST at VAXT.llnl.gov
Subject: Trub and flavor

With all the brewhaha (sic) about trub and off-flavors, I did some checking...

1) Trub removed after cooling is fairly insoluable, and also relatively stable
   at wort pH (< 5.7 or so....lower is better).

2) Trub is most effectively removed via a hopback at the time you fill the
   primary.  Use a BIG HUGE funnel with a fairly coarse screen or cheesecloth,
   and put in a layer of hops from the boiler about 1 to 2" deep.  I use a 
   strainer and gently agitate it under the wort to "dust off" the hop leaves.

3) Swirl the cool wort to settle the trub and gunk in the center of the boiler.

4) Siphon the wort from the side of the boiler into the hopback.  The hops will 
   provide a good filter bed for the trub and other break.  This is also an
   excellent way to add aromatic character to your wort if you use fresh hops.

If you get some trub in your wort, see 1) above, relax, and have a homebrew.
If you think you can really detect a flavor attibutable to the trub, just make
a few comments about your wonderful beer with a hint of Belgian character.

I strongly suspect that what most people think is trub flavor is really 
caused by yeast autolysis.  While this is acceptable in some styles, and 
wonderful in Chardonays, it generally is considered a flaw.  Gotta keep them
yeasties happy!

BTW, many commercial brewers are using and developing "killer" yeast varities
that can "take care of" wild yeasts and some bacterias.  What do you think the
chances of Wyeast licensing some of these are?
	
John

"It's only MY opinion...
post@ vaxt.llnl.gov
post@ lis.llnl.gov

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 10:14:47 PDT
From: sherwood at adobe.com (Geoffrey Sherwood)
Subject: racking

Though I would throw in my two cents on the racking issue.  Ever since I
started doing this (I had a John Bull 'Master Class' :-) extract kit) I
have followed the directions listed in that kit.  After racking I prime
the secondary with about 1/2 cup of corn sugar in boiling water (just as
for kegging or bottling).  The resulting fermentation blows out all of the air.

One homebrew shop I was in was aghast when I mentioned this.  Why?  It
seems to work just fine.  I get only a very thin layer of yeast and other
crud when I go to keg -- and this was probably due more to the increased
settling time than additional yeast growth.

Also, I have just started kegging (on my sixth or seventh batch) after many
years of bottling.  The beer seems to age very slowly -- if at all -- when
in my deep freeze (kept at about 60F).  Admittedly I have only aged the kegs for
about a month before chilling, but bottles have gotten very good at that
age.  The kegs still taste fairly raw.  They then change taste dramatically
after about 3 days in the refrigerator, peaking at about a week (whereupon
they tend to disappear fairly rapidly so I haven't seen any degradation if
any occurs).  Can anyone shed any light on this?

On another topic, someone asked the question a day or two ago about what the
advantage of natural carbonation was over CO2 injection.  I have always
primed, but I am wondering what it really does for me.  Especially since I
am chilling the kegs for several days (connected to the CO2) before drinking
them anyway.

	many thanks,
	geoff sherwood

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Date:     Fri, 17 Aug 90 09:23 EST
From: <HOLTSFOR%MSUKBS.BITNET at pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  oxidize that wort

Brian Capouch and Norm H seem to be worried about oxidation at the wrong
time in the brewing process:

>>I have had several professional brewers snicker at my questions about
>>how they avoid oxidizing hot wort,

>>(1) First, I NEVER pour through a funnel or strainer while hot.  That is
>>    indeed the cause of some oxydized beer.

Oxidation of bitter wort before fermentation should be *encouraged* with every
means available, e.g. vigorously splashing the wort on its way into the
carboy.  Yeast need the O2 to reproduce.  After the yeast population has
increased in number many thousands of times they will run out of O2 and
switch their metabolism to fermentation, an anaerobic process.  It's during
or after fermentation that O2 could be a problem.  You need only be concerned
about preventing aeration during racking to a secondary fermenter and
bottling.  When you're filling your primary, by all means, splash away.

Tim Holtsford

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Date: 17 Aug 90 10:21:56 PDT (Fri)
From: bryan at tekgen.bv.tek.com
Subject: Propane burners,  autolysis               


I have a 35,000 propane burner that I purchased at Stienbart's, I think
they are around $80 now. It's complete with propane regulator/hose and
enclosure. I have a 10 gallon brewpot, which is sometimes full. (I boil 
down to the desired original gravity, rather than than to 5 gallons, if
I have some extra, I use a second container.) 35,000 btu is not overkill,
it is really nice to be heat quickly. I think 45,000 would be O.K., but 
anymore and it might be difficult to get the flame low enough after the
boil is started.

When the fermentation is complete, (in the secondary), I usually just let
it sit for 2 to 6 weeks, whatever is convenient, to make sure that fermantation
is complete and let some of the yeast drop out. I have never identified any
off flavors attributable to the autolysis. How long before there is enough 
autolysis to add an off flavor? Is the danger of autolysis blown
out of proportion?

	Starting to think about my first fall batch,

				Bryan Olson

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 14:01:23 EDT
From: gateh%CONNCOLL.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Funnels, cleaning taps

Ken Schriner asked about keeping taps clean.  I've used an external tap
(that is, outside the fridge) for 6 years and never had such problems,
however that may be due to very regular use |-).  Fruit fly infestations,
now that's been a problem...  At any rate, he also asked about how bars keep
their taps clean.  My understanding is that bars are *supposed* to clean
their taps weekly by running a disinfectant and hot water solution through
the lines.  However I seriously doubt there are many bars which actually
abide by this (I believe it's actually a law here in CT).  Again I think the
regular use of the system keeps these problems to a minimum.  The only
difficulty I have ever had with tap systems are the type which flow through
a chiller unit in a camp cooler.  No one *ever* flushed these systems, so the
chiller unit sat full of beer, and you know the rest.  Nearly impossible to
clean.

To add one more note (of warning) to the responses to Ken Weiss's question
concerning glass primaries and funnels - I have a large plastic funnel with
fitted strainer, and I have been pouring the hot wort directly through (I
know, bad idea).  While I have managed this alone, the first time I did it I
rested the funnel in the mouth of the carboy, thereby creating an air-tight
seal.  I began pouring, and as soon as the hops had covered the screen, the
hot air in the carboy had no where to go.  The pressure blew the screen,
boiling wort, hops and all, back in my face.  This was not pleasant.  Since
then I have taken to taping a toothpick to the outside neck of the funnel so
that there is an airspace between the neck of the carboy and the funnel.
Yet another reason to use a wort-chiller...

Gregg TeHennepe       | Academic Computing Services         | Yes, but this
gateh at conncoll.bitnet | Connecticut College, New London, CT | one goes to 11...

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Date:     Fri, 17 Aug 90 11:04 PST
From: <CONDOF%CLARGRAD.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Glass grenades, monitoring fermentation, etc.

There's recently been a thread of messages about glass grenades. This really
astounds me! I was under the impression that this was a Prohibition
phenomenon. The way I used to avoid this was a clever idea suggested to me
by Don at Fun Fermentations. After I've pitched the yeast and thoroughly
mixed it with the wort (by dumping the wort into the yeast-containing
fermenter from a height of about 60 cm -- also thereby oxygenating the
wort), I draw a sample and put it into a laboratory cylinder. I put a
saccharometer that reads 0 to 8 degrees Plato (or Balling) in there, and fit
a glass fermentation lock over it in such a way that the narrow stem of the
saccharometer fits into the lower tube of the lock.

Thereafter, I daily swirl the cylinder to rinse away the deposits that
accrue at the surface of the wort, which would otherwise make it impossible
to read the saccharometer. I keep the cylinder in the same place as the
fermenter, and I can monitor my fermentation without opening my fermenter,
thereby avoiding the infection and oxidation hazards.

I say that's how I *used* to do it. After you do that a few times, you get a
real feel for the behavior of your wort. So now I just wait for fermentation
(as measured by evolution of CO2) to cease.

I have discovered a way to speed-brew safely. First, live in Southern
California, or some other place where homes stay no cooler than about 76 F
in summer. Second, use 2 packages of Munton & Fison yeast. Not only is this
stuff *incredibly* aggressive, but it imparts, at summer temperatures, at
least, a wonderful fruity character that I really like in my pale ales. At
really warm temperatures, I even get a delightfully subtle aftertaste of
bell peppers!

As I said, it's incredibly aggressive; it has almost always fermented
completely out OVERNIGHT. I kid you not. But here's the tricky part. When
I've racked to a secondary, the brief exposure to oxygen kicks the yeast
into a secondary fermentation, where it digests the dextrins. This
fermentation can take as long as a month or more to complete, and the only
safe solution is to LET IT GO UNTIL IT STOPS. So, if I'm speed brewing
and/or want to keep my dextrins whole, I use a single-stage fermentation. On
the other hand, if I can't bottle immediately, and want to get the beer off
the sediment in the primary, I make a dextrose syrup, as if bottling, and
add that to the beer in the secondary. This sugar load allows the yeast to
consume the oxygen introduced in racking without kicking into dextrin
fermentation, and I can safely let my ale sit in secondary to clarify for
some days.

Further, I believe in fresh ale (see, for example Terry Foster's book, "Pale
Ale"), so, after bottling with 0.5 cup of dextrose, I condition for a week
at room temperature, then refrigerate the whole batch. This stops the yeast
and any bacteria that might be there, and keeps the beer fresh. The only
beer I've ever needed or wanted to age was a botched brown ale that was
offensively astringent. Time can cure that (somewhat). But most ales, I
think, and particularly pale ale and English mild, should be consumed as
fresh as possible.

I've never had a bomb in my closet, although I once had an infected pale ale
that I *hadn't* refrigerated, which gave me celery-tasting beer volcanoes.
Since it tasted awful, I dumped it: my one and only (so far) batch that
hasn't been drunk and enjoyed by me and my friends. Of course, this is all
only my experience. Your experience may vary.

Cheers!
*..........
 Fred Condo. System Administrator, Pro-Humanist (818/339-4704).
 INET: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com     BitNet: condof at clargrad
 matter: PO Box 2843, Covina, CA 91722

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Date:        17 Aug 90 08:42 -0800
From: mike_schrempp%29 at hp4200.desk.hp.com
Subject:     twins

A wierd thing happened in the kitchen last night...

The brew team (6 total, 5 homebrew virgins) were bottling the first batch ever
of "6 Cooks Ale" (a knockoff from TCJOHB). We had 2 5 gallon carboys of the
stuff which had been brewed from extract in a single pot and diluted in a large
plastic (food grade, I think) trash can from K-Mart, then split, pitched,
fermented and racked into secondaries after 1 week.

When we opened the carboys we expected identical twins, but instead we got
Arnold Schwartzenegger and Danny DeVito, one full-bodied and one wimpy. Neither
were seriously offensive so we mixed them up and put them to bed. The thing
we cant figure is, what happened? A couple more specifics:

OG - 1.030
FG - half at 1.016 (full bodied)
     half at 1.002 (wimpy)

The wimpy half blew its cork twice during the first few days of primary ferment,
but after racking to the secondary and letting it sit for 3 weeks both carboys
were pushing a bubble at the same rate, had the same amount of sediment, and
looked the same. Neither had and bad flavors. We did use two different packages
of the same type of EDME dry yeast (I don't know what kind) bought at the same
time.

Anybody got any ideas?

P.S. In hindsight, we probably should have bottled each batch separately, but
     with 5 virgins and 10 gallons of homebrew in the kitchen, who can think
     straight?


Waiting for carbonation,
One of the virgins


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Date: 17 Aug 90 11:20:06 MDT (Fri)
From: ames!gatech!raven.eklektix.com!ico.isc.com!rcd at decwrl.dec.com (Dick Dunn)

Subject: re: Resealable Bottles

semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET writes...

> I only use resealable bottles.  I use two types: The standard 16 oz
> Grolsch bottles, and the 22 oz Fischer bottles.  I get these at the 
> local bottle redemption center for 5 cents each.

I used to use the resealable bottles; I eventually got rid of them all.
(Just in passing, I might wonder why anyone would have to *buy* beer
bottles, even from a recycler!:-)  I decided they were neither cheaper nor
easier.  Read on...

> I think 12 oz bottles would be very repetitive to fill.  Then you've 
> got to cap them all.  What a pain...

Agreed...but I use a combination of 12 and 25 oz bottles.  The 12's are
more of a nuisance, but there are times you only want to consume one
bottle, or you want more than one, but of different kinds.  I even use some
6 oz bottles when I make barley wines.

> I think they would be cheaper too.  What do people pay for caps?
> 1 or 2 cents each.  And then add on the cost of the capper.

But the seals in resealable bottles don't last forever.  They have to be
replaced, which means you've got to have a look at the seals each time
before you bottle, else you get a bad seal and a wasted bottle of beer.
With caps, there's no problem; you replace them each time.  Also, the last
time I checked (which admittedly was several years ago) the replacement
seals were relatively expensive, many times the cost of a cap.  I used
resealables up 'til the first seal failures (which I hadn't anticipated)
and seal replacement, at which point I was tired of messing with them.  You
may find them worth the bother and/or you may find capping more of a hassle
than I do.  I find it a matter of personal preference.

To do an honest job of cleaning and sterilizing (more or less) the top, you
have to pull the seal, then put it back on.  I really think it adds up to
almost as much work.

For the most part I use a combination of Anchor 12 oz and Tooth's 25 oz
bottles.  They're the most space-efficient sturdy bottles I've found, plus
for some reason I always seem to have plenty of empties around!  The Anchor
are nice for small bottles because the opening is just a tad wider than
average, which makes cleaning go faster.  They're both brown and of similar
shape, so this satisfies the AR desire to have nice neat rows of matched
bottles.
_ _ _ _ _

Next, Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU> writes...

Subject: re: Hot Peppers & pH

> I don't have my "bible of peppers" here on hand, but I'd bet half a case
> of Bud Dry that the hotness of peppers comes from a lipid-based
> substance, which might have a measurable pH but certainly not enough,
> for the most part, to overcome the buffering capacity of an average
> wort...

I think Brian was writing in response to an earlier conjecture that the
active ingredient in hot peppers was an acid.  Brian's right that it's not;
peppers are very slightly acidic but that doesn't have anything to do with
the "hot stuff."  The active ingredient in hot peppers is capsaicin (brief
ritual bow when the word is uttered or written:-), which is an alkaloid.
("alkaloid" doesn't mean "basic" either BTW; it's not related in pH to
"alkali".)
  ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at raven.eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd   (303)494-0965

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 18:33 EST
From: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
Subject: "Beer Hunter" episodes

Hi there!

As promised in response to the feedback I got last month, below are listed the 
last Aug and 4 Sept episodes of "The Beer Hunter."  The dates listed are for
the Thurs. night showings, which are at 10:30 PM EST.  All are repeated the
following Sat. night (Sun morning, actually) at 2:30 AM. 


Aug 30:  California Pilgrimage
Sept 6:  Germany-- The Fifth Element
Sept 13:  The Best of British
Sept 20:  The Bohemian Connection
Sept 27:  Holland-- Our Daily Beer


                         Yours in Carbonation,

                                      Cher 


"With one tuckus, you can't dance at two weddings." -- Yiddish proverb
=============================================================================

	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF at UFPINE
	Gainesville, FL

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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 18:40:18 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: gushers

Florian "the sloppy" writes:
>To this I will add that I'm a pretty sloppy brewer.  I stick my filthy
>hands in the brew, I suck on the racking hoze, I roll loose hops in
>unwashed cheesecloth on the kitchen counter to make hop bags, I dump in
>priming syryp made with cold water, and I hardly ever scrub my bottles
>(when I *do* bottle), I have never used more than a one minute soak in
>bleach solution for bottles and equipment, and so on as T -> oo.  I have
>yet to get gushing beer or gunk growing in the bottles.  BUT, in very
>old (year old) beer, I have noticed excess carbonation, which I attribute
>to the yeast simply using up every last bit of fermentable left in the
>brew.  But there has never been carbonation anywhere near the point of 
>gushing out.

Are your beers very dry?  Maybe your sloppy techniques are causing
wild yeasts and bacteria to use up all your sugars in the fermentation
tanks, leaving none to be used in the bottles.   Also, if you drink
your brew fast, infections have no chance to overcarbonate the brew.
Finally, highly attenuative yeasts (yeasts that use up most of the
sugars) will leave less sugar for infections and wild yeast to work
on in the bottle, whereas less attenuative yeasts WILL leave more
sugar and subsequently increase chances of explosions vs. gushers
vs. simply overcarbonated beer.  I agree though, that we should be
careful not to temp. shock yeasts so they wouldn't leave LOTS of
sugar behind (which, again, could lead to explosions).

Al "my kegging system is on it's way" Korzonas


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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 90 18:40:30 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: oxidation and thermometers

Brian--
Oxidized beer has a skunky or "wet cardboard" odor and has
nothing to do with under-carbonation, so just don't measure
your level of oxidation by your level of carbonation.  By the
way, why do you shake the carboy. I don't know of any benefit.

A proper quality thermometer could be purchased at a laboratory
supply house (usualy catalog) or maybe a hobby shop that has
chem lab equipment.  Look in the Yellow Pages (Consumer and
Business-to-business) under laboratory supplies.

Al.


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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 90 16:27:34 PDT
From: hsfmsh!suurb at uunet.UU.NET (Dave Suurballe)
Subject: Juniper

In #468 Florian, the worrier, expresses fear of ruining 5 gallons of otherwise
good ale by over-junipering it.  I have no such fear.  I have "ruined"
batches before, but they can be recovered by blending with an ok batch,
especially if you have draft equipment, and I think Florian does.

Just jump in and do it, Florian.  If it's overdone, brew again with less
or no juniper and mix them half and half.  If it's underdone, brew again with
much more juniper and mix them.

And don't be so conservative.  I have never tasted juniper berries, and you
have, but still it seems that one tablespoon is a very small amount for
five gallons of beer.  Can they really taste so strong?  Ginger is a pretty
strong flavor;  I once made a ginger beer with eight ounces of ginger.  Is
juniper stronger?  If it's twice as strong, maybe you should use four 
ounces.  If it's four times as strong, use two ounces, etc.

Please do it soon; I'm very curious about it.  I bet it'll be wonderful.

Reading further (I've just got back from vacation) I see that in #471,
Dave Sheehy suggests using a quarter-cup.  That's probably a good starting
point, since he's done it and it tasted good, but let me be the hundredth
person in the Digest to state that weighing the ingredient will give you
more reproducable results than voluming it.  


Suurb


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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 90 21:58:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Burners

In Digest #477, Mark Montgomery writes:

>Has anyone found a good solution?  Maybe a cheaper outdoor cooker
>from somewhere (mail order?)?  A source for smaller burners in the 15,000 to
>20,000 BTUH range? 

I have two suggestions, although they both will require a little
"engineering" to get them going.  The best, in my opinion, would be to
go to a restaurant supply house, or scrap yard, and try to scavenge a
commercial-grade burner setup off a junked stove.  I bought an old
Vulcan range for $25 and used the orifices and burners from the griddle
part of it.  I don't know the BTUs, but they're certainly adequate for
the task. 

The other thing, which I haven't done but know of several others who
have, is to scavenge the burner element from a junked gas water heater. 
The tanks in those things usually play out way before the  burners do,
and the folks I know who use them seem to make good enough beer. 

As usual, my unrelated note: I pour my hot wort (yep, albeit carefully)
from the boilpots into a large pot which I preload with my immersion
chiller.  I simply lay a large kitchen strainer across the top of the
recipient pot, then slowly pour the hot wort through.  After the brewpot
is empty, I then take a hose which contains the hot water coming from
the chiller and run a bit over the top of the hops a time or two, to
extract the wort that stays stuck to the hops.  I previously posted some
thoughts about oxidizing hot wort--I sure wish we could get some
authoritative answers on this.  Miller seems adamant that it's horribly
harmful, but, as I said, 3 for 3 of the microbrewers I talked to claimed
to allow their hot wort quite a lot of rumbling as it got filtered on
its way to the heat exchanger.  

Brian Capouch
Saint Joseph's College
brianc at saintjoe.edu

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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 90 20:41:01 PDT
From: "Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503 18-Aug-1990 2335" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Finally...whew

You aren't going to believe this ( especially you Pete 8'), but the first batch
is in the primary!  As everyone has pointed out, there is no substitute for the
first batch to teach you what's going on.  As careful as I have been in getting
prepared, there were still myriad little mechanical things to decide upon, and
of course there is still the rest of the process to go through.  I will offer
that I am very glad I did the research I did here (thanks Digest-ers!) and
elsewhere.  It was tough enough with the homework - I can't imagine without.

The 10 gallon pot is great.  The wort chiller took the 6ish gallons from boil
to 79 degrees in less than 20 minutes, and that's without using the effluent as
a bath (my sink makes that very difficult). I estimate almost five more minutes
off the time when I can do that.  The boil smelled OK until the hops went in -
then it smelled great.  Smelled like an herb garden (as does the whole house
now).  My dinky stove (add-on range type burner for a BBQ) left a lot to be
desired, and I am already thinking about the one from Brewer's Warehouse.  I
also need to put a double tub in the basement (I have nothing there now) so
that I can concentrate the activities there and leave the kitchen intact.

Though prepared, one can't tell how well the sanitizing went until after the
fact.  I have a lot to learn about trub management (mechanical - I ladled with
a pot until I could pour).  The funnel/filter screen are not ideal, so I'll be
thinking about how to do that.  Probably siphoning is the answer, but I wasn't
up to that the first time.  Timing of the yeast is a bit haphazard.  It was 26 
hours after breaking the inner pouch to pitch from the Brewer's Choice packet 
to the starter.  After the suggested 12 hours in the starter, it was going 
well, but not at high kreusen, I suspect.  I pitched it anyway, as it was 
burbling merrily, and had a near total surface cover made by then. I blew
the metrics 8'{  I carefully set aside a cylinder of wort to get pH and OG, 
and promptly knocked it over while cleaning up, so I have neither.

All in all, a satisfying day.  Now if I can only R (I don't really have DW in
my vocabulary), and a SS Oatmeal Stout had to do for the HAHB...but not for
long 8')

Thanks again for all the advice, assistance, and blows to the head (you know
who you are).

Cheers...Gary

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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 90 13:18:38 EDT
From: capnal at aqua.whoi.edu (Alan Duester)
Subject: Re: straining hops & oxidation

Someone wrote (I chopped off the header with my editor - oops):

>To people with hop cloggin problems. If you use pellets forget straining its a 
>pain and really the hops settle to the bottom of the fermenter and the yeast 
>will form a layer over it fairly quickly isolating it from the beer. If you use 

I strain my hops out because if I don't, chances are much greater that my
blowoff tube would clog and blow up my carbuoy! 

I also do the cross straining procedure I talked about just
before the wort comes to a boil to remove my flavoring grains.

Then following my message was one from Norm Hardy:

>Here are my two bits about how to transfer the wort into the primary fermenter:
>(1) First, I NEVER pour through a funnel or strainer while hot.  That is indeed
>    the cause of some oxydized beer.

I have forgotten much, as I think this was discussed weeks back, but what off
flavors is oxidizing going to give my brew?
========================================================================
Al Duester, Ocean Engineer, MS S201   #  SPAN: 6308::capnal 
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution  #  INTERNET: capnal at aqua.whoi.edu
Woods Hole, MA  02543                 #  (508) 457-2000 x2474

Well, this UNIX wiz says, 
        "Look, the Mac is like a ferrari, right?"
"Yeah, one that you don't have to drag into the shop each week to drive."
        "Okay, then UNIX is like the SPACE SHUTTLE........"
"Oh. I see. So you can never really get off the ground with it when you
want to...?"
========================================================================

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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 90 21:26:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Douglas Allen Luce <dl2p+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Where can I find mead/ales

I've been interested in starting up a homebrew project one of these
days, but am a bit hesitant to go about it.  

Among the things I'm wondering is if I can just use what equipment
I have onhand in my modest kitchen, and if the process will stink to
high heaven (thereby annoying my already tense roomates).
 
I'm also interested in finding out more about microbreweries, perhaps
paying a visit to one local to Pittsburgh.  Does anyone know of any
local to me?  

I've also wondered what mead is like -- can any suggest a source?

Thanks,

Douglas Luce
Carnegie Mellon

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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 90 21:30:24 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper%maxzilla.encore.com at hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Wyeast and Beer Hunter

  The situation with Wyeast packaging is pretty much as the others had said:

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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 90 21:45:05 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper%maxzilla.encore.com at hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Wyeast and Beer Hunter

  I apologize for not posting this sooner. 
  According to Wyeast there was a problem with packages dated around March and 
April (identifiable with three ridges on the side of the package) but this was
due to a substitution or something by Wyeast's supplier and was corrected 
almost immediately.

  Just a reminder that on Thursday night, from 10:30 to 11:00 pm EDT on the 
Discovery channel will be the first installment of Michael Jackson's "Beer
Hunter" series, about Belgian beers.

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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 90 06:33:27 PDT
From: "Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503 20-Aug-1990 0931" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Racking and multiple stage fermentations...

    After sending my first batch to the primary and observing for a day or
    so, the whole issue of racking and multiple stage fermenting is
    becoming clearer (so to speak).  This is my take on the possibilities. 
    Since I will be brewing ales and heavier brews exclusively, my ideas
    and observations are from that perspective.  I would like to hear some 
    commentary from all you experienced old hands.
    
    Thanks...Gary

    P.S. This IS fun!
    
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Objective: 
    
    1. To make the cleanest, best tasting, most reproducible brew possible.

    2. Reduce the effort required, consistent with objective 1.
    
    
    Assumptions: 
    
    1. The less time a brew spends on hot/cold break material, and/or           
    sedimented yeast, the better.  This means that with the exception of        
    increasing the possibility of contamination/infection, and the extra 
    work involved in the process, you can't rack too often.

    2. All fermentation steps occur in glass carboys.
    
    
    Apparent options:
    
    There appear to be several times/places to rack the brew to newer, cleaner
    surroundings -
    
    1. After chilling in the boiler, and stirring to get the "whirlpool
    effect", racking from the edge of the brewpot to the primary.
    
    2. Without (or with?) step 1, after several (8 to 12?) hours,  rack from
    the primary to the secondary.  This should be prior to the formation of
    any significant kraeusen.
    
    3. After high kraeusen, when all (or the majority) of the yeast has
    precipitated out, rack to the secondary. I am assuming that the large
    blanket of yeast, etc. that forms on top of the brew will precipitate
    out (almost) completely.  If not, one wonders how to rack without 
    transferring a lot of what remains in suspension (filtering at the pickup 
    as addressed here in an earlier message would be one obvious way).  If 
    the original racking almost filled the primary, using the blowoff           
    method would seem to reduce the yeast byproducts significantly, and perhaps 
    limit the usefulness of this step.
    
    4. Finally, after the last fermentation stage is complete, rack to the
    keg or bottles as appropriate.


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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 90 09:33 EDT
From: ames!gatech!mailrus!uunet!pdn.paradyne.com!steve at decwrl.dec.com (Steve Fowler)
Subject: Resealable Bottles

> So I can't figure out why any one would bother capping.

One reason we can think of is the life of the rubber used on the
cap.  After some usage we have found that the rubber dries out
and become brittle.  We discovered this after making a batch of 
stout and finding 8 out 12 bottles had a dried out, hardened 
rubber thus spoiling the beer.  This can be caused by many 
things but primarily the liquids that the rubber is exposed
to my be removing the plasticizers in the gasket thus making 
them hard and brittle (correct me if I am wrong, info obtained 
from discussion about why to put tablets into waterbeds once a year).

We have started using the non-returnable 16oz. bottles with the 
plastic caps.  They work real well and have not had a problem yet.
Just make sure they are screwed down real tight.  We also use the
2 liter bottles.  

We will try the Grolsch bottles again as soon as we can find some 
replacement rubber seals for them.

- --------------------------------------------------------    I~ Teenage Mutant
Steve Fowler         |UUCP:   ..!{uunet|att}!pdn!steve |  -=-- Ninja Brewers.
AT&T Paradyne        |DOMAIN: steve at pdn.paradyne.com   | -===-- Brewers
P.O. Box 2826        |LAND:   (813)530-2186            | --=--- Drinking
Largo, FL 34649-2826 |ICBM:   27 53 30 N / 82 45 30 W  |  ----  Half Kegs.


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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 90 9:11:58 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Oak Chips & the "I-Word"

Rats.  I seem to be the latest to suffer an infection.  In my latest
IPA, I added 4.5 oz of white oak chips to the secondary, after first
toasting them for 30 minutes at 350F.  Frankly, I never so much as
peeked beneath the wet T-shirt over the carboy after racking
(carrying "RDWHAH" perhaps a bit TOO far) until I went to bottle
yesterday, whereupon I discovered this disturbing white grunge
growing atop a few of those chips that were still afloat.  When
sanity returned I bottled anyway, noticing that the beer looked,
smelled, and tasted just fine, and the SG was exactly as expected. 
Now comes the wait, to see if it stays that way ...

So my questions:  Those of you who use chips for that "cask
conditioned" flavor, do you periodically agitate the carboy, to keep
all the chips wet?  Was my toasting not enough to kill resident
biota?  Anything else I should be aware of?  Thanks ...

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: 20 Aug 90 12:51:47 PDT (Mon)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: Fischer bottles

Bob Gorman (wasn't he an astronaut?) says,

>I only use resealable bottles.  I use two types: The standard 16 oz
>Grolsch bottles, and the 22 oz Fischer bottles.  I get these at the
>local bottle redemption center for 5 cents each.

Be careful about the Fischer bottles.  I used to use these also, but
one of them lost its bottom during storage with a batch of benign beer
in it.  Upon close examination, I saw that the glass of these bottles
is rather thin.  Very much like the non-refillable twist offs in the US.
For a moderately carbonated batch, the Fischer bottles should be OK,
but I don't trust them anymore.  

Then, 
Bryan Olson asks:
>  Has anyone sampled "Rouge Red" from the Rouge River microbrewery in Ashland
>    Or? I had some recently, it has the most incredible finishing hops
>      aroma/taste, very strong. Does anyone know how they do it?

I think the proper spelling is "Rogue Red".  Yes, it is good, but it still
gave me a headache.  

It is possible to achieve the dramatic hop aroma by several methods, including
addition of hop extract and dry hopping.  If you keg, it's really easy
to drop in a cheesecloth bag of leaf hops before sealing the keg.  Perle
works just dandy, and so does a bit of CFJ-90 (which, I am surprised, is
in fact legal--probably because the Republicans haven't heard about it yet). 
(Sorry-couldn't resist)

Florian the liberal independent anti-politician.

PS:  What is this & at #$! going on with cheesecloth?  I can't find cotton
cheesecloth anymore.  Just this synthetic crap with the monstrous runs in it!


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Date: Wed Aug 15 11:08:30 1990
From: nwillis at ocdis01.af.mil (GS-11 Nicky Willis;CREPS;)
Subject: Rotokegs

Greetings fellow brewers,
                  
	Has anyone out there had any experience with the plastic Rotokegs
 They use a CO2 cartridge like the ones in a BB gun.  I've also seen some Edme
 kegs(2.5 gals) with a similar arrangement.  Bottling is a pain, and these 
 kegs are reasonably priced.  I wonder if you need to prime at kegging time
 or if that little cartridge provides enough CO2?  All the recent talk about
 scratched plastic brings up the sanitation question too.  
							-Nick

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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 90 10:35:49 CDT
From: Guy D. McConnell <mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: Grolsch bottles

    I have been following the recent discussions about Grolsch bottles with
great interest since I am about to brew my first batch of homebrew and I have
a couple of dozen Grolsch bottles.  My question is; how often should the
gaskets be replaced on these bottles?  Each time they are used like caps? 
Only when they are "worn out"?  How do you tell?  Is it O.K. to use the 
bottles I have (I personally drank all of the beer out of these myself over a
period of time of course) with the "factory" gaskets or do I need to replace
them when I bottle my brew?  Incidentally, I know that 24 Grolsch bottles are
not enough to hold all of my brew and I have three dozen imported 12oz. 
bottles as well.  Your insights will be appreciated and used!!

- -- 
============================================================================
 Guy D. McConnell                   |                     | "I'd like to be
 Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL.   | Opinions expressed  | under the sea
 Mass Storage Peripheral Evaluation | are mine and do not | In an octopus'
 Tape Products                      | necessarily reflect | garden in the
 uunet!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy           | Intergraph's.       | shade..."
 (205)730-6289                      |                     | --The Beatles--
============================================================================


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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 90 20:29:32 PDT
From: Dan Hall 20-Aug-1990 1651 <hall at buffa.enet.dec.com>
Subject: "A Brewers' Offering", Boston, MA., August 16, 1990

Well, the beer tasting event to benefit WBUR radio went of in Boston as planned.
Entitled "A Brewers' Offering", it was held at 808 Commonwealth Ave, which is a
large open hall, attractively decorated with chandeliers and colored marble.
Upon paying the admission fee, I was handed a pilsiner glass etched with the
name and date of the event, and a program of featured brewers and snack
providers. 

The hall was lined along the two long walls with vendors, and the middle area
was occupied by tables and chairs.  They should include more of those next
time, because several times I was forced to stand while attempting to drink and
scribble a review on my program. At the end wall, a jazz band who looked liked
they would rather be elsewhere (a couple of them looked like they *were*
elsewhere) pumped out jazz standards for the paid imbibers. 

The snacks provided were generally good, though the lines for them were much
longer than any of the beer lines.  The highlight of the night for me,
snack-wise, was chunks of smoked bluefish rolled in cracked pepper, provided by
Nodine's Smokehouse, Torrington, CT.  Nodine's also had some yummy venison
summer sausage, cajun sausage, cajun ham, smoked chicken breast, and smoked
Gruyere cheese. 

Also good was some awesome chili from the Porterhouse Cafe in Cambridge (ran
out very early!) and sauerbraten from Old Vienna Restaurant and Kaffehaus in
Westborough, MA.

Oh yeah, the beer!  There were 68 available, of which I tried 27 (I had a 60
mile drive home, alone.  Next time, a DD).  Here's what was memorable, because
it was either good or boring.  In most cases, I had already tasted these, but
in the name of science, my comments are included.

Russkoye
	Offered by Boston Beer Brands, this Russian beer is light gold in
	color, with a big white head.  Real nice malty aroma, and a strong
	malt flavor.  Good stuff!

Wheaten Ale
Tall Tale Pale Ale
Cambridge Amber
Charles River Porter
	These were presented by the Cambridge Brewing Company, Boston's second
	brewpub.  My notes tell me that the Wheaten Ale had no head, no aroma,
	and no flavor.  Well Mrs. Lincoln, other than that, how did you enjoy
	the play?  The Tall Tale Pale Ale was better, dark amber in color, a
	creamy white head, a moderate bitterness and a light hop flavor.  The
	Cambridge Amber was actually closer to a pale ale, with a sharp hop
	bite in the flavor, and very bitter.  Dark amber to red, with a light
	malt aroma, it was a good beer.  The Charles River Porter was dark
	brown with a hint of red, a big medium-brown head, and a strong roasted
	grain flavor.  This was heavy in body, and could easily have been called
	a stout without anyone noticing.

Young's Oatmeal Stout
Young's Ramrod
Mamba Malt Liquor
	These were provided by International Beverages.  I was already familiar
	with the Young's products, but hey, this was an experiment.   8^)
	The Oatmeal Stout had a big light-brown head, a smooth, creamy mouth
	feel, and a big, sweet flavor.  My notes tell me that it was almost
	overpowered by the chili that I had before it, to give you an idea of
	how a**-kicking the chili was!  Anyway, I wasn't too sure whether I
	preferred this to Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout, but now that I've tried
	them both a close intervals, the verdict is in.  This is the one!
	The Ramrod is one of my favorite Young's beers, with a light amber
	color, medium white head, and a nice 	balance between the malt flavor
	and aroma, and the hops flavor and aroma, and a moderate bitterness.
	A real fine pale ale! 	The Mamba hails from Cote D'Ivoire (the Ivory
	Coast), and is a very light beer - I wonder why it's called a malt
	liquor?  It had no aroma and very little flavor.  What it did have was
	a very interesting initial flavor.  I spent several minutes trying to
	peg it, but couldn't.  I'm going to have to find a bottle and spend
	more time with it (even though overall it's a boring beer). 

Elm City Golden Ale
Elm City Connecticut Ale
	The New Haven Brewing Company presented these two.  The Connecticut
	Ale had a pretty amber color, but no head, thin body, and very little
	flavor.  The Golden Ale had a lighter, gold color (surprise!), but it
	too suffered from little flavor (These were the first two beers I tasted
	so I know my palate wasn't affected by something else).  What made the
	Golden Ale memorable to me was its initial coffee bean flavor, something
	usually found only in darker beers.

Brooklyn Lager Beer
	Medium amber color, pleasing malt aroma, and a sweet light flavor.
	This would be a good beer when having several on a hot day.  Not
	positive, but I think it's contract-brewed by F.X. Matt.

Post Road Real Ale
	Again, I'm real familiar with this, but I knew how good it was so I
	couldn't pass up another taste.  Made under contract by Catamount for
	Old Marlborough Brewing Company, this deserves the title real ale,
	because it is everything a classic pale ale should be.  Dark gold color,
	good bitterness, and a big hop flavor.  This always reminds me of
	Grant's Scottish Ale, which has a massive hops aroma and flavor.

Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout
Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale
	The Stout was almost opaque, with a thick light-brown head.  It's a
	creamy, medium-bodied beer.  I think I like Young's better because it
	has a heavier body.  The Nut Brown Ale was medium brown in color, with
	a big light brown head.  It has a very light malt aroma, medium body,
	and a sweet flavor with its characteristic 'nuttiness'.

Smoked Porter
Burly Irish Ale
	Provided by Vermont Pub and Brewery of Burlington (VT.), these two
	were some of the few beers dispensed out of Cornelius kegs.  The Smoked
	Porter was opaque black, with no head, and no aroma, and a thin body.
	Those failings were offset by the pleasant light smoky flavor, making
	this a tasty, unique beer.  I'm going to try and make one like this.
	The Burly Irish Ale was reddish amber in color.  It had been decanted
	into a pitcher, and had no head, no aroma, and no flavor.  Oh well.

Bohemia Premium
Watney's Cream Stout
	Presented by Wisdom Import Sales Co.  The Bohemia had a massive white
	head and a very light gold color.  It had almost no mouth feel, and
	very little flavor, but it was made interesting by its strong floral
	flavor, which I pegged immediately as forsythia.  The Watney's Cream
	Stout surprised me, because a) I've had Red Barrel and it is positively
	repulsive, and b) I've had the Cream Stout out of a bottle before, and
	found it boring.  This time, it had a moderate roast grain aroma, a
	good coffee flavor, and a nice, sweet taste.

Mocha Java
	My last brew of the evening.  Opaque, no head, a wonderful coffee aroma,
	delicious coffee flavor, and served piping hot.  Provided by The Coffee
	Connection, this was the perfect brew to start the drive home.   8^)

That's all.  There were several more beers I had never tried before, but I
wasn't impressed, so they aren't included here.  I have notes on all the beers
I tasted.  If anyone wants me too, I'll provide a complete list of the beers
that were in attendance.  In addition to the valuable information I picked up
about some new beers, I've got the glass, another printed glass I talked out
of the Cambridge Brewing folks, a McKewan's bar towel I talked out of those
folks,  and lots of interesting literature and beer promo stuff.

All in all, it was fun, and if WBUR does it again, so will I.

 -Dan

 =_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=
 Dan Hall                         | Telecommunications & Networks/EIC
 Digital Equipment Corporation    | ARPAnet: hall at state.enet.dec.com
 Continental Blvd.                | EASYnet: STATE::HALL
 MKO1-2/H10, PO Box 430           | Usenet : ....!decwrl!state.dec.com!hall
 Merrimack, NH  03054-0430        | N.E.T. : (603) 884-5879
 =_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=


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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 09:08:14 EDT
From: Mark.Leone at F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: The Beer Hunter

The Sunday New York Times (8/19) had a small article on the "The Beer Hunter."
Don't forget that the first episode (The Burgundies of Belgium) airs this 
Thursday (8/23) at 10:30 pm on the Discovery Channel, and again on Sunday
at 2:30 am.  (Times in your area may vary, though.)

 - Mark

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OK, I've added your name to the mailing list. The digest is sent out
every day that articles have been received. If you would like to
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netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu.

Rob

End of HOMEBREW Digest #478, 08/21/90
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