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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Moldy beer ("'Eric Roe'")
  Nut Brown Recipe Wanted (Richard Stern)
  My framboise recipe (CRF)
  ginger and carbonation questions (Doug Bonar)
  Belgium tour (Todd Koumrian)
  Grolsch gaskets (Rick Myers)
  oak chips in IPA (Mike Mattox ~)
  Two Quickie questions (Mike Meyer)
  oxygen (Pete Soper)


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Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date:    Tue, 21 Aug 90 13:55 EDT
From: "'Eric Roe'" <KXR11 at PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Moldy beer

In HBD #476, Russ Gelinas writes about a moldy beer problem.

You wanted to hear a mold story.  I also brew in my basement, which
is very moldy and musty.  I recently made a batch of ale and did
the racking from the primary to the secondary in the basement.
Well, needless to say, mold got in.  The mold appeared as small
specks which sparsely covered the surface to the beer.  As I had
spent a good number of hours decoction mashing the grains to make
the brew, I was a bit pissed off.  When I went to bottle the brew
I tried my best to leave the moldy layer undisturbed.  It didn't
work, so essentially I bottled mold and all.  After several days in
the bottles the same type of mold started to grow.  However, I
noticed that if the bottles were disturbed at all, the mold would
simply drift to the bottom of the bottles and settle in the yeast
sediment.  I wiggled each bottle just enough to break the surface
tension of the beer.  So far it has worked out quite well.  The
mold had disappeared, and the beer is quite good -- a bit over
carbed, but I think that's due to too much kraeusen added to prime.

                                   Eric Roe
                                 <kxr11 at psuvm>

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 14:49:17 mdt
From: Richard Stern <rstern at hpcslb1.col.hp.com>
Subject: Nut Brown Recipe Wanted
Full-Name: Richard Stern

Has anyone brewed a good Nut Brown Ale, similar to Samual Smiths??

I tried a recipe from Zymergy, and it was pretty good, but not quite
nutty enough.  I brewed it again with some modifications, and that batch
was also good, and closer to Smiths, but still not quite there.

So help me please:   How does one get that important *Nut* taste into a
brown ale ????

Thanks in advance!

Richard Stern
rstern at col.hp.com

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 16:47 EST
From: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
Subject: My framboise recipe

Hi there!

Well, here's my framboise recipe as I originally envisioned it:

6.6 lbs malt (~60% wheat/40% barley is the traditional ratio used in the 
              Belgian lambic framboises)
1/2 lb crystal malt (cracked and steeped in hot water 20 min, then strained)
1 oz Hallertauer hops; 45 min boil
Yeast (Wyeast Bavarian Wheat, #3056)

After 7 days' fermentation, 5-6 bags (at 12 oz each) of frozed raspberries 
were defrosted and pureed in a freshly sanitized blender, and pitched into the 
fermenters.  Fermentation was allowed to proceed for 48 hours, and then I 
bottled.

Now:  I had some problems with this (which I shan't go into), and intend to
modify the recipe somewhat next time, as follows:

1 can (6.6 lbs) Ireks wheat malt (is 100% wheat malt)
3-4 lbs light DME (because 6.6 is 60% of 11 lbs, and allowing for water 
                   content, this ought to be about right)
1 oz Hallertauer; 35 min boil
Yeast (Wyeast Bavarian Wheat, #3056)

After 7 days fermentation, the same amount of raspberry puree will be pitched, 
in the same manner.  Fermentation, and maceration of the fruit, will be 
allowed to proceed for a further 7 days (the fruit could start to decay after 
this point, so further maceration would be inadvisable).  I will then bottle,
priming if necessary.  Due to the high amount of malt I will be forced to
employ (because of that big can of Ireks), I plan to top off the priming
bucket with sterile water at bottling, in order to make the brew less
concentrated in terms of malt, and to maximize the batch size. 

Coming back to the first recipe, in order to give one some idea of the
results: right from when I first checked on the bottled brew at the age of 3
weeks, I've been getting a large head with good lace, and an enormous aroma of
raspberries (in keeping with typical framboise characteristics; see Jackson on
the subject).  The brew is also crystal clear, with a deep ruby color (which I
consider to be just plain luck; wheat beers are characteristically cloudy).
However, there was an astringincy and bitterness that was about all one could
taste.  As aging has continued, however, these are disappearing.  At about 8
weeks, the flavor of the raspberries was beginning to come through.  I
estimate 4-6 months minimum aging time will be needed; quite possibly more. 


                         Yours in Carbonation,

                                      Cher 


"With one tuckus, you can't dance at two weddings." -- Yiddish proverb
=============================================================================

	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF at UFPINE
	Gainesville, FL

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 17:06:24 EDT
From: bonar at math.rutgers.edu (Doug Bonar)
Subject: ginger and carbonation questions

Ok, I have some questions for you guys.  My last batch didn't
turn out like I expected, and I can't really figure out why.  So
perhaps you can help.

First, I was trying to make a gingered ale.  I was aiming for
something light in color, nice head and pretty gingery.  Having
no experience with making any beer with non malt/hops 
ingredients, I didn't really know how to use the ginger.  Following
someone from this list (who posted a while ago), I bought 
a 5oz ginger root and planned to use about 1/2 of it.  The
posted instructions didn't mention how to use the ginger, so
I sliced it thin (with a veggie peeler and a knife) and added
as if it were an adjunct grain.  It smelled good on the knife 
and my hands, but it wasn't making any ginger smell in the
heating water.  So, I went ahead and added the whole root.
I think I went wrong when I strained it out with the spent
grains (at boiling).  In any case, the beer (6 lb light DME
1.5 oz N. Brewers in boil and .5 oz N. B. seeping, 1 lb crystal 
malt) had no ginger flavor or aroma.  Any suggestions?

Second, I had a funny problem with carbonation.  I used 
EDME for the first time, so that could be it  After one week
in the carboy (in my bathroom, pretty warm most of the
time, no AC here), I bottled.  Previous batches have been
done in that amount of time, so I didn't bother with measuring
SG (I know, bad idea).  In bottling I added 3/4 cup of table
sugar (I had forgotten to pick up corn sugar).  I bottled 
and waited two weeks as usual.  (BTW no ginger aroma or
taste when bottling, so I was just hoping for a nice light
beer at this point.)  Well, these bottles ended up very foamy,
but never what people are describing as gushers.  When I
opened them, some of them would slowly foam out of the
bottle.  No real pressure behind it, it would just slowly 
move a head up the neck of the bottle and if I didn't pour
it, it would foam over the top for about 4 min.  (about 1/3
of the bottle would foam out)  When I poured I got a really
dense head and great quantities of it.  I had stored the
beer in the fridge from about the second week on, and it
was gone inside 1 1/2 months (I figured if I was headed for
grenades, I'ld just drink quick.)  So, is this a standard
overcarbination, or what?  I liked the creamy head, but
it was loosing me 1/3 or so of the bottle on each bottle just
in pouring (I poured and let the head run over the side.)
Again, comments?

Sorry about being long, 

Doug
bonar at math.rutger.edu

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 1990 14:40:51 PDT
From: todd at NISC.SRI.COM (Todd Koumrian)
Subject: Belgium tour

I've been trying to assemble info to go on a beer tour of Belgium.  
I have really more than sufficient info about the breweries (locations,
products, telephone numbers) for just going and touring around on my own,
but since my French is mostly forgotten and I'm not sure how common English
is there, I've been trying to find out if organized (guided) tours exist.
(like various wine tours through regions of France).

Thus far, I keep running into the opinion that my idea "is just ahead of
its time", in other words, the reality of beer tours through Belgium just
hasn't happened yet.  Does anyone know of any such tours, organized either
in Belgium itself or abroad?  Anyone toured on their own and care to
share your experience through netmail?

Todd Koumrian
todd at nisc.sri.com

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 16:23:41 MDT
From: Rick Myers <cos.hp.com!hpctdpe!rcm at hp-lsd>
Subject: Grolsch gaskets
Full-Name: Rick Myers

Guy D. McConnell <mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET> writes:

>                                    My question is; how often should the
>gaskets be replaced on these bottles?  Each time they are used like caps? 
>Only when they are "worn out"?  How do you tell?  Is it O.K. to use the 
>bottles I have (I personally drank all of the beer out of these myself over a
>period of time of course) with the "factory" gaskets or do I need to replace
>them when I bottle my brew?

I use the gaskets 2 to 4 times, reversing the gasket after each use,
but never more than twice on each side. If the bottles have been filled 
and closed for several months, the rubber will take a 'set', i.e. will
form a ridge or indentation.  When this happens I will use the other side,
or throw it away.  I NEVER use the factory gasket - they have an extremely
bad set, and have usually started to dry out.

Rick

- -- 

*===========================================================================*
Rick Myers
Hewlett-Packard Colorado Telecommunications Division
5070 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO  80919 (719) 531-4416
INTERNET: rcm at hpctdpe.col.hp.com
*===========================================================================*
Disclaimer:  standard

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 15:10:44 PDT
From: mmattox at fws132.intel.com (Mike Mattox ~)
Subject: oak chips in IPA

>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 90 9:11:58 PDT
>From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
>Subject: Oak Chips & the "I-Word"
>
>IPA, I added 4.5 oz of white oak chips to the secondary, after first
>toasting them for 30 minutes at 350F.  Frankly, I never so much as
>                     . . .
>yesterday, whereupon I discovered this disturbing white grunge
>growing atop a few of those chips that were still afloat.  When

The local homebrew shop here in Sacramento (R & R Fermentation Supplies)
sells their own IPA kit in which they recommend covering the oak chips
with water, boiling for 15 minutes, and then straining the "oak tea"
into the secondary.  I've found that this provides a noticeable oak 
flavor to the brew with little chance of infection.  

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 17:31:04 PDT
From: meyer at tcville.hac.com (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Two Quickie questions

A couple of quick ones:

1) I second the motion about good, simple mead recipes - I'd like to
try making a couple of 2-gallon batches.  How 'bout a simple one with
just honey and spices, and one with fruit?  What about nutrients for
the yeast?  What are the differences in
yeast or technique between still and sparkling meads?

2)  What type of yeast does one use for Barleywine?  Champagne? Montrachet?

Okay, maybe number one isn't so quick after all, but have a heart and
help me out here, I've been putting both of these style off for way too
long, just because of these stupid little questions...



Mike Meyer

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 23:29:17 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: oxygen

  Oxidation of hot wort from aeration is not the same as the dissolving of 
oxygen in just-cooled wort or fermenting wort. These are very different 
processes with very different and important implications.
  Dissolving oxygen in wort by aerating it (or mixing with tap water, etc)
after it has cooled is done to feed the yeast during their respiration phase
prior to the start of fermentation. This oxygen is entirely taken up by the 
yeast and can do no harm. In most cases it does a great deal of good.
  Oxidation is the combining of oxygen with other substances while aeration
just implies the solution of oxygen in some medium. An iron nail rusting is 
oxidation. Conversion of alcohol to acetic acid (vinegar) in old wines with 
defective corks is also an oxidation reaction. In the case of oxygen 
introduced while racking to the secondary and during bottling the oxidation 
reactions tend to accelerate staling through reactions with a class of 
compounds called aldehydes.
  With hot wort aeration can cause oxidation reactions that will knock the 
slats out of the flavor and flavor stability of certain beers (namely ones 
made from worts having a lot of oxidizable stuff, chiefly melanoidins). Another
less painful but sometimes upsetting effect is darkening of the wort.
  I once made a stout and due to one thing and another I ended up pouring the 
hot wort collected from the lauter tun multiple times from one container to 
another before boiling it. That beer was miserable from the start and got more 
miserable as time went on.  The same recipe, made with care to avoid splashing 
the wort, let alone pouring it, came out very well. This was the ultimate A/B
experiment for me.
  The reason aeration doesn't oxidize wort at low temperatures when you are 
adding air to feed the yeast is that the chemical reactions involved are 
drastically slower at low temperatures and the yeast are there just itching
and ready to consume.  But then after fermentation has started there are other 
reactions going on where oxygen even at low temperatures can cause problems.
  So please, don't stop aerating your cooled wort prior to pitching yeast. This
is a recipe for slow or stuck fermentations if your yeast is small in quantity 
(i.e. old dried yeast or almost any use of liquid yeast cultures).
  If you want some hard citations start with the George Fix book and then go
to a cow-college library around section TP570.

  Here is a table that might be useful as a summary:

BREWING STAGE		EFFECT OF AERATION
- -------------         ------------------
hot wort collected    oxidation leading to short and long term
		      flavor effects, depending on the type of wort

hot wort boiled but   same as above
still hot       

boiled wort cooled    oxygen is dissolved to provide "food" for yeast growth
		      and reproduction. A GOOD THING

wort fermenting       staling reactions causing beer to taste old and
		      "oxidized" like old imported beer 

fermented ,      same as above but perhaps to a lesser extent
being bottled/kegged
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Soper (soper at encore.com)                          +1 919 481 3730
Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511  USA

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #479, 08/22/90
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