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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re:Food-grade glue/sealer ("Pete Calinski")
  Re: invert sugar/candi sugar ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Re: Re: help ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  RE: Harshness / candi sugar ("Sam Ritchie")
  Re: chang'aa kills 49 Kenyans / beet sugar ("Peter A. Ensminger")
  Re: Food-grade glue/sealer (Bob Tower)
  Re: Tannins at the end of the sparge (Scott Alfter)
  Sparging (Fred Johnson)
  Candi/invert sugar + smack packs (Nathaniel Lansing)
  Candi Sugar/table sugar (Paul Edwards)
  Source for SS pipe and connectors (Craig Wheeler)
  Harshness through oxidation (The Grant Family)


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Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:51:17 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re:Food-grade glue/sealer

Well, DAP used to make a silicone sealer in a both the "toothpaste" and
calking gun sizes.  The UPC was xxxx-8641.  It has an FDA# and is rated to
400F.  I don't think they make it anymore.  Lowes used to carry it but not
any more.  Emails to DAP go unanswered.

I found the last two tubes in a local hardware store.  I bought them even
though they expired 7/2004.  It still seems to work.  I have had other types
of calk expire and the stuff doesn't seem to stick anymore.  It comes out of
the tube OK and goes on OK but when you stress it, it peels right off.

So far I haven't had that happen with this tube so if you find some expired
stuff, it may still work.  I bet it depends on how it was stored.


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY

http://hbd.org/pcalinsk


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************





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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:48:22 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: invert sugar/candi sugar

On Tuesday, 28 June 2005 at  1:28:10 -0400, Peter A. Ensminger wrote:
> Invert sugar is produced from sucrose by adding invertase and/or acid
> and heat. This breaks down sucrose (disaccharide) into its two
> components: fructose and glucose (monosaccharides). Pure invert sugars
> do not normally crystalize. Belgian candi sugar, which is crystalized,
> is NOT pure invert sugar. It is derived from sugar beets, as are many
> European table sugars. Thus, it might be argued that Belgian candi sugar
> tastes subtly different from American table sugar, which in most cases
> comes from sugar cane.
>
> I have heard that Unibroue (Quebec) uses regular table sugar (sucrose
> from sugar cane) in its Belgian style beers. They still taste pretty
> good to me! IMHO, Belgian Candi sugar (sucrose from beets)  at  $4 per
> pound is a waste of money when you can get table sugar (sucrose from
> cane) for much less.

Beet sugar and cane sugar are chemically identical.  Any difference in
taste would be due to impurities.  And of course beet sugar is the
cheapest sugar you can get in Europe, so paying $4/lb does sound a
little silly.

Greg
- --
The virus contained in this message was not detected.

Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:53:39 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Re: help

On Tuesday, 28 June 2005 at 20:35:06 -0400, Pat Babcock wrote:
> Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote ..
>
>
>> The water being sucked into the beer could mean that the yeast is
>> using up the available oxygen in the wort, which would be a good
>> sign.  More likely it's a sign that the temperature has dropped since
>> you pitched, which is neither good nor bad.
>
> No, a temperature or ambient pressure change in and of itself is not
> a bad thing for your infant beer. Ah, but that it is sucking the water
> from the airlock into the fermenter could be!

Yes, another reply made it clear that I have misunderstood the
original (and omitted) statement.  I was assuming the pretty normal
case where the bubbles were going in, not out, not that the water
itself was being sucked in.  That would be quite some suction!

> Most of us don't use sanitized water, and, even when used, little is
> done to ensure that the water in the airlock remains
> sanitized. That's why I use the cheapest garden-variety vodka I can
> find in my airlocks. Doing so essentially equates "suck back" with
> "enrichment" :o)

Heh.  I use boiled water, but agreed, that doesn't protect much.

Greg
- --
The virus contained in this message was not detected.

Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:36:22 +0800
From: "Sam Ritchie" <sam.ritchie at paradigmtsm.com.au>
Subject: RE: Harshness / candi sugar

Matt writes:

> As for theory, I have never seen any plausible argument as to 
> why sucrose that is inverted before it is put into the wort 
> should result in a different tasting beer versus sucrose that 
> is inverted in the wort by the yeast.  Has anyone?

The argument I've seen is that the invertase enzyme the yeast produces
can be tasted and gives a 'cidery' off-flavour. I'm not a microbiologist
and can't vouch for its plausibility. Certainly here in Australia where
beginners are instructed to use 1kg cane sugar to 1.8 kg prehopped malt
extract, we're pretty familiar with cidery off-flavours; though I
couldn't tell you whether they're due to invertase or just too much
sugar.

and:

> Never had Westvleteren.

I didn't notice any unpleasant flavours that may have come from
granulated sugar. I'm not the best beer judge though, so take that
assessment with a grain of, um, sugar :).

To drift slightly off-topic, it's often asserted that Trappist ales
shouldn't have late hop character; but Westvleteren is bang in the
middle of the West Flanders hop fields and it shows. Unfortunately, the
bottled version (if you can find it) does not have as much of this
character as the draught version available at the brewery outlet
opposite the monastery. It should be a mandatory visit if you're in that
part of Belgium.

Cheers,
Sam.




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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:49:56 -0400
From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: chang'aa kills 49 Kenyans / beet sugar

My reference for the lethality of ~100 ml of ethylene glycol 
(antifreeze) is New Engl J Med (1999) vol 340: 832-40. : "... if a 
lethal dose (100 ml or more) has been ingested ...". The lethal dose for 
methanol varies according to different sources I have seen, but it is 
close to 100 ml (+/- 50%).
- -----
Yes, $4 per pound is very silly for Belgian Candi Sugar (beet sugar)! 
But this is the typical price at USA homebrew shops. Any HBD'ers want to 
buy a bridge?

Sincerely,
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY

[[ Greg - What's up with your strange signature "The virus contained in 
this message was not detected." ? ]]




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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:13:29 -0700
From: Bob Tower <tower at cybermesa.com>
Subject: Re: Food-grade glue/sealer

Jim Jacobson is looking for a food grade adhesive for use with his  
fermenter lid seal. GE makes a food grade silicone adhesive. It is  
called RTV108 and can be purchased from McMaster-Carr or Grainger if  
your local place doesn't or can't get it for you. I've personally  
used this product and it is tough, long lasting. It gets the job done.

Bob Tower
Los Angeles, CA


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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:07:56 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: Tannins at the end of the sparge

"May, Jeff" wrote:
> Jeff Renner got me thinking about tannins, and that's a good thing.  How do
> you know when to stop sparging in order to minimize tannins?  I usually just
> collect enough for the batch and never give it a second thought.

A rule of thumb I heard was to stop sparging when your runnings go below 
1.008-1.010.  Monitoring the gravity coming out of the lauter tun will be a 
PITA with a hydrometer, but it's quick and easy with a refractometer.  If you 
come up with less volume than you want, add water to make up the difference. 
With the ESB I made last Sunday, I stopped when the refractometer indicated 2.5 
deg. Brix (~1.010).  A half-gallon of water straight out of the HLT got the 
volume where I wanted it, and efficiency (I use fly sparging) turned out to be 
80% (a little higher than the 75% I anticipated, but a little more alcohol 
never killed anybody :-) ).

(Refractometers, if you don't already have one, are cheaper than you might 
think...you should be able to find several on eBay for under $50.  Look for one 
that covers 0-32 deg. Brix and includes automatic temperature compensation.)

   _/_  Scott Alfter
  / v \ Visit the SNAFU website today!
(IIGS( http://snafu.alfter.us/      Top-posting!
  \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?




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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:02:46 -0400
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: Sparging

Jeff May asks about how to ensure that he doesn't over sparge.

If you collect a constant ratio of water relative to the weight of 
grain in the grist (all other factors being the same), you should have 
a consistent sparge and consistent extraction efficiency. I always 
collect 0.58 gallons of wort per pound of grain in the grist. I don't 
pay any attention to how much water I add during the sparge. I simply 
keep the water flowing out of the hot liquor tank until I near the my 
target amount and stop collecting when I reach the target. (Isn't this 
the way many commercial brewers sparge?)

If the amount of volume collected is greater than you can boil off in 
your standard boil time, you will need to increase the length of your 
boil. If your standard (minimum) boil time will bring your volume down 
below your target volume, you will need to add additional water to the 
kettle.  To do this, you need to have a good idea of the evaporation 
rate in your boil. Alternatively, if you have a good gauge of the 
volume in your kettle, you can just keep boiling until you get to the 
target volume or add water toward the end of the boil if necessary. 
(However, this latter method introduces other factors that must be 
dealt with such as lower hop utilization during the boil.)

If increasing the length of the boil is undesirable, such as when you 
are trying to keep the beer very pale as may be the case of a very 
light pilsner, you will need to plan ahead for this and collect a lower 
ratio of wort relative to weight of the grist.

I have difficulty getting a good measurement of wort volume in boiling 
wort, so I depend more on knowing my evaporation rate, and I calculate 
the time of the boil before I start the boil or I adjust the volume of 
the wort at the beginning of the boil rather than at the end.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:56:46 -0400
From: Nathaniel Lansing <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: Candi/invert sugar + smack packs

I was wondering if eventhough Candi sugar is
sucrose;  does the sucrose invert anyway in the
acidic wort during a one hour boil?
+++++
The new "Activator" packs contain approximately
100 billion cells, more than a 5 gram dry yeast pack.
They should be directly pitchable in 5 gallons.
If the pack was one month old and did not swell
after one day, the question that comes to mind
is, "Did you get this mail order?" Three days in
transit without refrigeration can severely damage the
culture.



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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:46:42 -0500
From: Paul Edwards <sdrawdep7821 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Candi Sugar/table sugar

Peter wrote:

"IMHO, Belgian Candi sugar (sucrose from beets)  at  $4 per
pound is a waste of money when you can get table sugar (sucrose from
cane) for much less."

Much of the table sugar sold in the US is beet sugar.  Unless it says "cane
sugar" on the bag, it's probably beet sugar.

Sucrose is sucrose, IMHO.

When we visited Belgium in 1995, many of the breweries we visited (including
Orval) were using what they called "liquid candi", which I think must have
been invert sugar.

- --Paul 



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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:57:06 -0700
From: Craig Wheeler <craigwh at exchange.microsoft.com>
Subject: Source for SS pipe and connectors

Hi All,

I've got some spending money and I am looking at jumping into RIMS. I'd
like to make the heating chamber out of stainless steel, but the only
source for materials that I have found is McMaster-Carr, and the total
for just the pipe and fittings I would need is over $175! Does anyone
know of a better source for SS pipe and fittings?

Thanks much,

- --Craig
"The future doesn't belong to the fainthearted; it belongs to the
brave." - Ronald Reagan




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Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:01:27 +1000
From: The Grant Family <grants at netspace.net.au>
Subject: Harshness through oxidation

Hi all,

The recent discussion of harshness came up last night when me and a mate 
each had a bottle of my latest pilsner (78% apparent attenuation, 40 IBUs - 
i.e. very hoppy). FYI, my water is very soft (~Pilsen) but I added CaCl2, 
as well as a little CaSO4, to my mash/sparge water.

One of the bottles had "oxidised?" written on the cap - something I do when 
I suspect that my bottling procedure would have introduced lots of oxygen 
into the beer. In this case I think it was the last bottle I filled and 
there was lots of sloshing and slurping involved.

My friend is a beer fan but not at all experienced in actual beer tasting. 
I poured him a full glass of good pilsner and a small glass of oxidised 
beer, then told him which was which and asked him to describe the 
differences. The first thing we noticed was the characteristic winey, 
cardboardy aroma of oxidised beer. My friend's first reaction after tasting 
the oxidised beer (after already having tried the good one) was to say 
"whoa, that's pretty harsh".

I must say that I'd never noticed harshness through oxidation in hoppy 
beers. BUT, as soon as I tasted the oxidised pilsner it was obvious. The 
first sip was fine, but there was a very distinctive, "grating" bitterness 
in the aftertaste which lingered for a LONG time. As such, every subsequent 
sip was spoiled by the lingering harshness and the beer became undrinkable. 
The good beer is quite bitter as well, but smoothly and more pleasantly so.

It was a very interesting experiment.
Cheers.
Stuart Grant,
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.



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