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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Bottles (Pierre Gauvin)
  Cancel My Subscribtion (Mike Karin)
  Gas water heater burners? (Chris Shenton)
  Clarification, re:  mead (CRF)
  label adhesive (Todd Koumrian)
  Apology; another helpful hint (CRF)
  Address of hops distributor (Paul Michelman)
  Smell of Boiling Wort (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Racking Steps (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Grolsch-style gaskets (John DeCarlo)
  nut flavour, barleywine yeast (R. Bradley)
  Yeast strains & carbonation levels (CONDOF)
  In search of Wiess Beer (Jeff Chambers)
  various (Pete Soper)
  Oak chips (Eric Roe)" <KXR11 at PSUVM.PSU.EDU>


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
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Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 8:58:35 EDT
From: pgauvin at ncs.dnd.ca (Pierre Gauvin)
Subject: Bottles

I am new to this mailing list.  I noticed a number of messages on
bottles and figured I'd throw in my $0.02 worth.

Here, in Ontario, commercial beer has been sold in bottles with twist
caps only in the last few years.  My guess is no more than 4.  Prior to
that all the bottles could only be opened using a bottle opener.(ie,
they had no thread)  This
means that homebrewers have had access for years and years to good
bottles which are resealable and have a much better seal than that of
twist caps.  Because of all those bottles in fellow brewers basements,
beer making supplies stores sell caps for the old style bottles as well
as the regular twist off caps.  

To make it even better, a few brands of beer are still sold in the old
style bottles, so that there is always a supply of bottles which can be
sealed properly.  I think that some of the foreign beers are also sold
in bottles which don't have the threads for twist caps.

I am working on my 5 batch of beer only, but I have noticed that the old
bottles( threadless) are a lot easier to cap and do provide good seals.

I apologize if all this is common knowledge.

Pierre Gauvin
pgauvin at ncs.dnd.ca





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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 8:11:23 MDT
From: Mike Karin <mikek at col.hp.com>
Subject: Cancel My Subscribtion

Please cancel my subscription to this newsletter.
- --
Mike Karin
Hewlett-Packard Co.
Colorado Springs Division
mikek at col.hp.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 10:19:17 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Gas water heater burners?

Anyone have experience turning gas water burners into a cajun-cooker
for brewing? 

I just acquired a water heater and could use some guidance. Thanks.

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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 12:30 EST
From: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
Subject: Clarification, re:  mead

Hi there!

A number of people have written to ask me about the amount of honey to use
if employing the recipe I posted.  It's in there, but I can see where people
would miss it.  

So:  2 pounds of honey for every gallon of mead you wish to make will yield 
a fairly sweet mead, unless allowed to ferment for a considerable length of
time.  In that case, the mead will not only be less sweet, it will be much
more alcoholic; something to consider.

Cher
CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU

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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 1990 10:26:48 PDT
From: todd at NISC.SRI.COM (Todd Koumrian)
Subject: label adhesive

Anyone discovered a nice, water soluable (therefore easy to remove) adhesive
for sticking your own labels on your homebrew filled bottles?  I'd like to
glue labels on my bottles, but don't want to end up shaving them off with
a glass scraper like I had to do with the original bottles (big pain).
I like it when they come off after a few minutes of soaking.  Suggestions?

Todd Koumrian
todd at nisc.sri.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 13:40 EST
From: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
Subject: Apology; another helpful hint

Well, everybody--

In looking back over my posting on mead-making, I find I *did* omit how much 
honey to add!  My sincerest apologies to everyone; it certainly wasn't 
intentional.

Also in re-reading the posting, I remembered another helpful hint which I 
should have passed along.

Mead made without a little bit of something bitter or sour added to it 
generally turns out cloying instead of merely sweet.  This is why many mead 
recipes call for the addition of some citrus peel or juice.

A commonly-used alternative to citrus, which can be employed when in doubt, is 
cold, strongly-brewed tea.  A few ounces (like, 1/4 cup) will suffice for a 
gallon.  

This is the same principle which leads soda manufacturers to add caffeine
(which is bitter) to prevent the high sugar content of sodas from making them 
cloying.

Again, my apologies to all for the omission!


                         Yours in Carbonation,

                                      Cher 


"With one tuckus, you can't dance at two weddings." -- Yiddish proverb
=============================================================================

	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF at UFPINE
	Gainesville, FL

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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 14:11:56 EDT
From: michelma at division.cs.columbia.edu (Paul Michelman)
Subject: Address of hops distributor

I've bought hops from a company that does mail-order business in
Oregon called FRESH HOPS in the past, but I've lost their phone number
and address.  If someone has this information, could they please
send it to me?  Thanks.

Paul Michelman
michelma at division.cs.columbia.edu
Dept. of Computer Science
Columbia University

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Date: Thursday, 23 Aug 1990 14:18:06 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Smell of Boiling Wort

>From: Douglas Allen Luce <dl2p+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

>I've been interested in starting up a homebrew project one of
>these days, but am a bit hesitant to go about it.
>
>Among the things I'm wondering is if I can just use what
>equipment I have onhand in my modest kitchen, and if the process
>will stink to high heaven (thereby annoying my already tense
>roomates).

Well, as far as the smell is concerned, I have played around
with this for awhile.  The roiling boil of the malt will have a
very characteristic smell, which will fill the house (or does in
my case).  I *like* the smell of malt.  My wife detests the
smell.  I can usually get by with a little trick of heating some
cinnamon in water on the stove, and making the house smell like
cinnamon instead.  (A real estate trick.)

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Thursday, 23 Aug 1990 14:19:21 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Racking Steps

>From: "Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 -
> 603884[DTN264]-1503 20-Aug-1990 0931"
> <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>

>   4. Finally, after the last fermentation stage is complete,
>   rack to the keg or bottles as appropriate.

I suggest including a step where you rack to another container
which contains your priming syrup and then rack into bottles.  I
find it gets that last bit of stuff away from the beer with no
chance of it getting into the bottles.

John "I know, I should be krausening" DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Thursday, 23 Aug 1990 14:20:08 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Grolsch-style gaskets

>From: Guy D. McConnell <mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET>
>Subject: Grolsch bottles
>
> I have been following the recent discussions about Grolsch
>bottles with great interest since I am about to brew my first
>batch of homebrew and I have a couple of dozen Grolsch bottles.
>My question is; how often should the gaskets be replaced on
>these bottles?  Each time they are used like caps?  Only when
>they are "worn out"?  How do you tell?

I am no expert :-), but whenever the gaskets show any sign of
drying out or hardening, I replace them.  Have only reused my
ceramin-top bottles at most four times each, and only replaced a
few of them.  However, I have *always* replaced the original
caps, except for a few bottles where I drank the beer and bottled
within the same month.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 14:20:31 CDT
From: bradley at dehn.math.nwu.edu (R. Bradley)
Subject: nut flavour, barleywine yeast

In digest #479, Richard Stern asks:

> So help me please:   How does one get that important *Nut* taste into a
> brown ale ????

Richard, I've never brewed a nut brown ale per se, but I've tasted
the original and I have managed to get a very nutty flavour in a
bitter by using something called BROWN MALT.  I've only ever seen
it in a brewshop in Toronto called Fuggles & Goldings, now out of
business, but with most of the clientelle and contacts passed on
to a shop called Brew-Your-Own.  Unless you're planning on visiting
the Great White North soon, you'll probably want to try to run it
down elsewhere else.  I can tell you the following:

   - It comes from the north of England

   - It needs to be converted (i.e. mashed)

   - It's essentially pale malt kilned at a higher temperature;
      not high enough to kill the enzymes, I think.

   - One pound of it in a 5 gallon batch gives the beer an exquisite,
      dry, nutty flavour and aroma.


In the same number, Mike Meyer asks:

> What type of yeast does one use for Barleywine?  Champagne? Montrachet?

Well, Mike, this might seem a little crazy, but I have successfully
made barleywine with Leigh-Williams beer & stout yeast, a general-
purpose dried brewer's yeast from England.  It must be pretty resilient
stuff, because the high levels of alcohol don't seem to trouble it
too much.  In the most extreme case, I had an Imperial Stout come all
the way dwon to 1032 from 1106 (about 10% alc. vol.).  1032 is high,
so I thought the fermentation was stuck.  Rather than worry, I 
dissolved some champagne yeast in a little wort the next time I
brewed, and added it to the batch.  Not much happenned...apparently
the Leigh-Williams had brought it all the way down to the natural
attenuation point.

By the by, the guy at the brewshop thought that champagne yeast would
have been the right thing to use from day one.  Keep that in mind
if you can't find any Leigh-Williams.


Cheers,

Rob Bradley

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Date:     Thu, 23 Aug 90 12:22 PST
From: <CONDOF%CLARGRAD.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Yeast strains & carbonation levels

In HD480, Cher writes:

>About yeast: always use a chablis, sauterne, or other white wine
>yeast. Montrechet seems to be the yeast of choice. Although generally
>considered a brew, modern ale yeasts will over-carbonate a mead,
>leading to glass grenades. I doubt lager yeasts would work at all. So,
>stick with wine yeast.

I've seen this sort of statement many times, and it leaves me puzzled. My
(admittedly ignorant) understanding was that the principal difference
between ale and wine yeasts was that the latter strains are more highly
resistant to alcohol, and hence must be used for any fermentation expected
to exceed about 8% v/v of alcohol. I don't understand how the level of
carbonation can differ among yeast strains, since the chemical reaction that
converts hexoses to alcohol and carbon dioxide always must yield alcohol and
CO2 in strict proportion. Could someone with a deeper understanding of yeast
physiology please explain?

By the way, thanks to Pete Soper for posting a cogent explanation of the
difference between oxygenation and oxidation! I'd like to point out that
people have been saying "carbonization" when they are clearly talking about
"carbonation." The confusion is similar to the one Pete cleared up:
carbonization is the conversion of organic matter to carbon by the
application of heat or flame; carbonation is the solution of carbon dioxide
gas in aqueous solution.

Cheers!
*..........
 Fred Condo.   Pro-Humanist BBS: 818/339-4704, 300/1200 bps
 INET: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com   BitNet: condof at clargrad
 matter: PO Box 2843, Covina, CA 91722          AOL: FredJC

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 13:51:24 CDT
From: motcid!red!chambers at uunet.UU.NET (Jeff Chambers)
Subject: In search of Wiess Beer

I'm looking to brew a wiess beer.  Does anyone have a good
recipe for one?  Please send to:

	uunet!motcid!chambers

			Thanks and Happy Brewing,
				Jeff Chambers

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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 18:40:15 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: various

  Crawford.WBST129 at Xerox.COM (Greg) asks about how I avoid pouring
recycled wort back into the lauter tun during sparging: I don't.
I just pour it in close to the grain level. 
- ---
  The question is how much is too much aeration of hot wort in a 
homebrew setting? The answer is I don't know and don't have the means
to know except at a very gross level. It is the case that for any 
given mixture of grains, water type, etc. a certain amount of splashing 
or pouring of the hot collected wort is "the limit" and going past 
that limit will affect quality. But since I can't possibly establish 
an unqualified safe limit in my kitchen, I just take steps to 
minimize splashing and pouring until the wort is cool and I don't
sweat the little bit that I can't avoid.
- ---
  Two quick notes about things that some of us have wondered about.
  The reason it is recommended that the grain bed in the lauter 
tun stay covered with water at all times until the sparge water runs
out is that at high temperatures the tannins in the grain are subject 
to oxidation if exposed to air. Is this really a hazard in typical 
homebrew settings? Beats me!
  A month or so ago Brian Capouch described the boiling of portions 
of the grain that goes on with decoction mashing and suggested that 
this meant the hazards of boiling grain in other contexts might be an
"old brewers' tale".  Since on the one hand I've wondered about this
apparent paradox myself and on the other it seems unlikely this
hazard is a mass hallucination affecting many homebrewers but sparing
Brian, I've been trying to figure out an explanation. I've found two 
items that go a small part of the way.
  The portions of grain that are boiled during decoction mashing are 
mixed back in with the rest of the grain and so they get more
conversion during the remainder of the mashing session. Also the 
pH is never much above 5.2-5.5 during this time (and so tannins 
wouldn't tend to go into solution easily) while I wonder about the
pH in somebody's sauce pan of crystal malt.
- ---
  pencin at parcplace.com (Russ Pencin) gave us a very interesting
description of the SSB Auto Mash gadget. Is it just coincidence that you
told us about this after Chuck Cox announced he was leaving the country
to attend an overseas pub crawl, Russ? :-)  
- ---
  Has anybody used Wyeast #2124 (Bohemian lager) in a low temperature 
fermentation yet? How do you like it? Could you compare it to any other
Wyeast lager strains?
  Has anybody used the silica gel that Williams sells for fining? Have
you seen any tendency for it to "over-fine"? By that I mean remove body
and/or cut down on head retention? How long does it take to completely
settle out?
- ---
  I've got a situation in which I can't use whole hops in my boiler.
I tried a muslin bag but was disappointed with the performance (finding
the lupulin sacs of the spent hops still intact didn't thrill me). So
lately I've been mixing the whole hops with a little water and running
them through a blender just before adding them to the boil. This gives
me "home made pelletized hops" that won't clog up my equipment and also
gets the lupulin out in the open where it can do some good.
  This brings me to the "trub separation" issue. I use a Bruheat and
arrange for the hot break and hops to settle below the draw level
of the Bruheat's drum tap. So then after cooling with an immersion 
chiller I just pour the clear wort into the fermenter with gravity.
This does not deal with the cold break but for me it beats either
siphoning or straining. The down side as I've said is that whole hops
can't be dealt with.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Soper (soper at encore.com)                          +1 919 481 3730
Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511  USA

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Date:    Thu, 23 Aug 90 20:18 EDT
From: "(Eric Roe)" <KXR11 at PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Oak chips


On using oak chips in beer:

>IPA, I added 4.5 oz of white oak chips to the secondary, after first
>toasting them for 30 minutes at 350F.  Frankly, I never so much as
>                     . . .
>yesterday, whereupon I discovered this disturbing white grunge
>growing atop a few of those chips that were still afloat.  When

Using dry heat, such as that in an oven, is not a very good way to
sterilize anything.  People who work with sterile culturing use an
autoclave which is basically an oversized pressure cooker.  This uses
pressurized steam, in other words wet heat, which reaches temps of about
230 degrees F.  The point of all this is that if you have a pressure
cooker you can add the chips to your brew unboiled and untoasted.  Put
the chips in a glass jar, cover with cheese cloth, and then set the lid
on the jar to hold the cloth in place.  Autoclave the chips for ^20
minutes and they'll be sterile.  Let the cooker cool, open it, and add
the chips to your brew.

Granted you have to have a pressure cooker to do it, but it's no more
work than making oak-chip-tea, and, if you end up with a problem in your
beer you'll at least know the oak chips didn't introduce it.

                                      Eric Roe
                                   <kxr11 at psuvm>


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #481, 08/24/90
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