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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  apology for what ? ("steve.alexander")
  Topcropping Wyeast Scottish Ale Yeast ("Rich Beecher")
  Teff (leavitdg)
  Flow Meters ("A.J deLange")
  Throw away the sight glass ("MARTIN AMMON")
  Water Filtration Question (Bob Pelletier)
  ozone sterilization (Alon Philosof)
  ??? required for 5 gallons (beer.man)
  Re: Brew Pot as Fermenter ("Mike Racette")
  Apology accepted ("Peed, John")


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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 02:02:05 -0500
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: apology for what ?

Bill Velek offers an apology where none was needed ...
No Bill, I've taken no offense at all at your comments.

You do bring up an interesting point, one which Frederick
touches on as well ... that of "useless" knowledge or the
"practical" implications of what I am proposing.

I'm sure there is useless information, but when it
comes to observation I can't imagine how one can determine
that a bit of information is "useless".  You'll only know the
value when the information is available and then is compared
and correlated with other observations.   Perhaps not until
some odd situation occurs which justifies the effort to
collect data.

I am not trying to design a practical solution to some hidden
problem - I'm sincerely trying to collect more & better 
information for the sake of having more 'toys' to play with
when it comes to thinking about fermentation.

>[...] I was hoping that he would respond with something
>that _I_ could use on the _practical_ end for something other 
>than perhaps just satisfying idle curiosity or his own
>somewhat unique interests.

Let's say "active curiosity" and I hope there is nothing
too unique about it.  Here we are with some 10% of our body
mass invested in the cranium, and roughly 20% of your
energetic requirement spent on the brain (whether you use
it or not !).   You're paying for it anyway, so you may
as well use this expensive resource by feeding it better
information then see what results.

It's actually rather unlikely that observing fermentation
parameters will result in any greatly improved flavor in the
glass - making good beer has been possible for several
centuries at least, and the 'art' is largely perfected.
Still one may be able to avoid problems or make incremental
improvements, compare methods or just debunk mumbo-jumbo
methods.

Yeast handling is one of the more variable parts of Hbrewing
and it is rather difficult to compare the results of
different handling methods fairly.  Very similar methods
result in somewhat variable results.  Different yeasts
seem to require almost radical differences in handling to 
get good results.   I would think that any better data
on the progress of fermentation *might* yield some useful
insights.  Right now we (HBers) have almost none - <OG,
bubbles, FG> is almost flying blind.

Peter F.Drucker states, "If you can't measure it - you
can't manage it", and this applies as well to
fermentations as corporations.

 -S



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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 05:29:13 -0500
From: "Rich Beecher" <rbeecher at hotmail.com>
Subject: Topcropping Wyeast Scottish Ale Yeast

19 December

          If there is any advise out there on successfully topcropping 
(collecting) Wyeast Scottish Ale Yeast from an open ferminter, it would be 
appreciated. I'm starting up with partigyle mashing, and would like to use 
the "second runnings" from a batch to build up the yeast for the "big beer" 
from a subsequent batch.
         Thank you much.


Rich Beecher
Chattanooga, TN
http://achattanoogawhig.com/theconfederateceltbrewery/
http://achattanoogawhig.com/theconfederatesmugglersbrewery/
http://www.AChattanoogaWhig.com/




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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 07:35:25 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Teff

Sean;

 No particular plan yet on a brew, but I was just wondering if there is anything
about Teff that may make it not so appealing as a fermentable, for ex, high oil
content, or something of that sort.

 If I can find some, I will just probably add it along with 6-8 lbs of pale malt
to make British Pale ale, or something of that ilk.

 Happy Brewing, and Happy Holidays!
Darrell



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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:02:09 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Flow Meters

Mike Sharp is thinking along the same sort of lines as I am, apparently. 
WRT water vapor:  knowing the temperature of the fermenting beer should 
be sufficient as one can assume the vapor pressure of H2O in the 
headspace would be the tabulated vapor pressure of water at that 
temperature (the mole fraction of water in fermenting beer must be well 
over 90%).


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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 07:25:31 -0600
From: "MARTIN AMMON" <SURFSUPKS at KC.RR.COM>
Subject: Throw away the sight glass

 THINK TANK:  I have used sight glass both on my water tank and boil pot for
years with a scale behind it that shows the amount in the tank.
And over the years I have broke several when cleaning the tanks or just bad luck
running into them.  I use high temp glass tube used on boilers and have used
ploycarbon tubes.  I was thinking (and that's when I get into trouble), if there
was a way of measuring the pressure in a stainless steel tube (sealed on one
end) the air pressure would vary as the water or wort level rise's or falls.
Taking this measurement and converting it into volume of liquid in the tank.
That's about as far as I can go with it.  Just a plain Old Country boy  any
thoughts out there.


Kansas Swagman
Its never too Early only LATE




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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:47:35 -0500
From: Bob Pelletier <rp at ihrsa.org>
Subject: Water Filtration Question

So, I had a pretty decent birthday that left me with a a couple hundred
dollars that neither the IRS not the Wife could withhold anything from, so I
decided to make some upgrades to the collection of brewing equipment.  One
of my purchases was a activated carbon filter. I figured that this would be
a good buy because our water smells like a pool.

I just wanted to confirm that running the water through the filter is only
going to take sediment and chlorine type odor/flavor out of the water and
not any of the beneficial minerals out. Am I correct?

Another related question. If I want and analysis of out municipal water, the
DPW has to send it free of charge don't they?


Thanks, 
No More Clorox Bob




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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:03:01 +0200
From: Alon Philosof <rahel-f at bezeqint.net>
Subject: ozone sterilization 

hello all,
does anybody have experience with using ozone for sterilizing stainless 
steel equipment,
silicone hoses and bottles?
any thoughts, suggestions?
I have an access for an ozoniser  and seriously thinking of using in my 
brewery.
cheers,
Alon Philosof



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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:45:41 -0500
From: <beer.man at cox.net>
Subject: ??? required for 5 gallons

I've seen it listed in many texts to add item X "per 5
gallons of water" in your recipe. My question is, is 
that 5 gallons of finished or 5 gallons total? 

For a 10 gallon batch of beer, I use about... 17 or
so gallons of water. Do I need to just add chemicals
and salts for 10 gallons (final volume) or for the 
whole 17? 

This has been bothering me off and on for a while. Any
advice would be appreciated.


Byron Towles
Crescent City Homebrewers 
(Still alive and kicking down in New Orleans)




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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:40:01 -0700
From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com>
Subject: Re: Brew Pot as Fermenter



I have to ask the same question here that I did on another forum when this
topic came up. I thought it was at least somewhat established that it was a
"bad" thing to ferment on the trub (I realize that some trub is desirable)
because of possible off flavors and clearing problems. Obviously, those who
use this method aren't experiencing these things so is this old practice
unnecessary and if so, then why do most breweries whirlpool before
fermenting?




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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:29:39 -0800
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Apology accepted


Doug, I thought Bill apologized very thoroughly.  And I think the
problem that some people have with the more esoteric posts is that they
come off as pedantic.  The HBD Discussion forum would seem to be a much
better place for esoteric discussions because you can have ongoing
discussions about a specific thread and in that context you can discuss
a particular bit of esoterica with people who actually choose to
participate in that particular thread.  In other words, people who
actually find it interesting.  

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN




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