HOMEBREW Digest #4945 Mon 06 February 2006

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  Re: Lagers made from ale malt [Sec: Unclassified] ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  when to pitch Lager yeast (lkowens)
  Re: Woodstock Inn (February 05, 2006) (Brian Millan)
   ("Berggren, Stefan")
  DuPont strain (Matt)
  Weight for O.G. readings? ("Michael Eyre")
  Subject: Pete's stuck fermentation (Thom Cannell)
  RE: hopbacking (RiedelD)
  re: Woodstock Inn (RI_homebrewer)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:02:45 +1030 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> Subject: Re: Lagers made from ale malt [Sec: Unclassified] On Friday, 3 February 2006 at 9:09:51 +1100, Rowan Williams wrote: > G'day all, > Ok, I'm keen to start lager production before our southern hemisphere goes > cool. Why? The cool time of year is best for lagers. > I have plenty of noble hops, Californian / Bavarian/ Oktoberfest > lager yeast and a newly acquired temp controller for the fridge. > The only problem is I have no pilsener malt! JOOI, why don't you just buy some? There's even a very light Australian Pilsener malt made by Joe Whites. Greg - -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 05:43:33 -0600 From: <lkowens at uiuc.edu> Subject: when to pitch Lager yeast I made a Dortmunder on Saturday. With my immersion chiller, I couldn't get the wort to cool below 60F. In this situation, which is the better strategy: 1)put the chilled wort in the refrigerator to finish cooling, then pitch the yeast when the wort cools to 50-55 or 2) pitch the yeast at 60 and slowly drop the temperature of the refrigerator after the yeast has been pitched. I've read with option 2 I'll get more diacetyl, esters, and fusels. But option 1 makes me nervous because I don't want to wait 10-12 hours to pitch the yeast. I picked option 2 this time, but am afraid I'll end up with a fruity/butterscotchy Dortmunder. What would you do? thanks, Linda Champaign, Il. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 06:55:07 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Brian Millan <ernurse at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Woodstock Inn (February 05, 2006) >From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig.cottingham at gmail.com> >Subject: Woodstock Inn Hi Craig -- Sorry not to have info on the Woodstock Inn for you just now, but I am planning on visiting there in the next couple of weeks, so I will try to get back to you on it. In the meantime, I found this place which will also be part of future crawl: http://www.theinnonpeaksisland.com Apparently it has on premises, a 15 barrel franchise brewpub from this brewery: http://www.shipyard.com/ Peaks Island is a short 1/2 hour ferry ride from Portland, ME. Might this be somewhere you'd be interested in? Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:48:17 -0600 From: "Berggren, Stefan" <Stefan_Berggren at trekbikes.com> Subject: In response to the Saison WLP 565 Yeast question: Steve, Don't worry so much about the temperature of fermentation for this yeast. It likes to be abused...seriously ! I use this yeast and ferment in the hot summer at around 80-85 degrees and produce some of the best Saison in my brewing portfolio. You may want to finish off with a neutral yeast such as WLP001 to have a dry finish typical of Saisons. Also pitch big or go home ! Be patient and abuse that yeast ! I noticed no off flavors at this temp when the beer was finished. If you are interested in the recipe, let me know ! Cheers, Stefan Berggren Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild (Madison, WI) www.mhtg.org " Getting Ready for the Big and Huge Homebrew Competition" Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:45:05 -0500 From: "Steve A. Smith" <sasmith11 at verizon.net> Subject: WLP 565 Saison Yeast Question Last Saturday (six days ago) I brewed +7 gallons of Saison, about 1.064 OG, using White Labs 565 Saison yeast for the first time. Per some of the threads I followed from the HBD archives, I have been fermenting in primary a little hot, at about 78 F, even though the WLP web site recommends an optimal fermentation temp range of 68 - 75 F. It was a simple matter for me to place my two primary fermenters close to a basement furnace where the heat remains quite constant at the mentioned 78 F (air temp). The yeast was very active when I checked 12 hours after pitching, and died down a lot about a day later, although even tonight it still bubbles once every couple minutes or so. Per the posts I read, some people ferment this yeast at 80 - 95 F, and that the book Farmhouse Ales, which I do not yet own, recommends fermentation temps somewhere in the vicinity of that range for this strain. I'm planning to rack to secondary tomorrow or Super Bowl Sunday, and will be unable to check the beer for a week after that. My question to those with experience with this yeast is would you recommend that, after racking to secondary, I move the fermenters to a slightly cooler area, say 70 F, so that the yeast will not break down during secondary fermentation? I understand that this strain takes its time and secondary might take at least 2 to 3 weeks to clear and finish somewhere around 1.010 - 1.014. My normal inclination would be to go cooler and longer in secondary, but I know that Belgian style beer-making can call for new ways of thinking. thanks, Steve Smith transplanted from the Rocky Mountain West to the DC Metro Area Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 07:51:57 -0800 (PST) From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com> Subject: DuPont strain Steve asks about ferment temperature profiles for WLP565 Saison, which is allegedly the DuPont strain. Here are some comments that might help, or might not. 1. For a beer I recently made (5 G of 1.051 saison, 5% sugar) the yeast (from a 2-qt starter) slowed to a crawl after day 1, gravity 1.036. I had been fermenting at 78 (according to the strip thermometer on the carboy, in a 73 degree room) and the slowing of the yeast resulted in a temperature drop to 73 degrees. 1.036 is near the point where one would expect all of the simpler sugars have run out and the yeast starts to ferment maltose. Maybe this is coincidence and maybe not. 2. From Phil Markowski's book and from the HBD post by Tomme Arthur, I gather that even the pros have not gotten a handle on how to make this yeast "go fast." Given the control they have over pitching rate, yeast health, aeration, etc, it seems unlikely that oxygen/sterol/UFA issues are the main reason for the well-known slowness of this strain. 3. Chris White suggested (personal email) that the slowness may have to do with maltose transport, and that when you ferment beer with "wine" yeast, slowness in the second part of fermentation is common. Markowski comments that repitched yeast may ferment faster, and this might make sense if repitching selects for maltose-savvy cells. 4. Back to my beer (still at 73-75 degrees), I added 1/4 tsp nutrients and it started to ferment faster for a day, but then slowed again to 2-3 bubbles per minute. So I don't think temperature was the issue. 5. Rather than keep adding nutrients (which might be a good thing to try) I just let it sit for 5 weeks in the primary, bubbling very slowly, and at the end of that time it was at 1.027. I added a packet of Nottingham, which fermented solidly for several days before stopping hard. The beer was at 1.008 and bubbling less than once every minute, so I bottled it. Never racked to a secondary. It tastes great. I would be interested to hear how this meshes with others' experience. Supposedly at Dupont much of the ferment is done in a week at 85-90 degrees. Maybe the temp really is the key to this, but to me it seems more likely that it is done with the help of the "other strains" supposedly present. The most foolproof way to get the beer finished is to add another strain. I guess WY and WLP are working on a multi-strain Saison culture for this reason. But it would be interesting to try: a. actually maintaining 85 degrees for a week or 2 b. a massive starter c. incremental additions of nutrients Anyone able to shed more light on this weird yeast? Matt Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:03:24 -0800 From: "Michael Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Weight for O.G. readings? Hey all! I read on here a while back about making gravity readings for wort by using a graduated cylinder and an accurate scale to weight the sample before and after fermentation, as a way to make more accurate than hydrometer readings possible. I know there was a bit of a hoo-ha about it really being necessary, but I just happened to come into possession of all of these required pieces of equipment and now the curiosity is killing me. I can't find the link to anything on Gooogle and the HBD site gave me fits for about 45 minutes with no luck to be had on the original post. I think it was -S who made the post, but I may be wrong... anyone point me in the right direction, perhaps? Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:30:43 -0500 From: Thom Cannell <Thom at CannellAndAssociates.com> Subject: Subject: Pete's stuck fermentation > Subject: Pete's stuck fermentation I once had a super Russian Imperial Stout stick at 1.036. Went to the local brewery, Michigan Brewing Company, and asked if the brewer had suggestions. He did, and gave me a slurry of WLP 099 - super high gravity - yeast. It worked. Perhaps it would help you as well. Of course a starter, nutrients, etc. Thom Cannell Thom near CannellAndAssociates dot com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:28:27 -0800 From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca Subject: RE: hopbacking I seem to have been misleading in my last post. I did not mean to suggest that I don't get a nice aroma from hopbacking. I don't seem to get a nice full aroma from late (as the heat is shut off) kettle additions. My interest in hopbacking is for that reason. Has anyone experienced a consistently good full aroma from hopbacking? Yes, dryhopping works, but it has a different character - often grassy - that I'm not as fond of. It's also out of place in most lagers. As for Fred's increased bitterness - since his transfers only took about 5 minutes, I'd think that the increased bitterness would be negligible. However, for 30g of hops, ProMash suggests about +2IBU in five boil minutes for a low alpha hop like EKG, and ~+3.5 for a higher alpha hop like Northdown. If Fred was closer to 10 minutes, then he could get close to a +5 IBU change. I believe that most people can only detect changes in bitterness of about +/- 5 IBU. It's interesting that Fred also went from immersion to counterflow chilling. This might be the more important factor. The near-boiling steep of the kettle hops while the wort runs through the counterflow chiller may add significant bitterness vs. an immersion method. Personally, I noticed a drop in bitterness in my beers when I sped up my counterflow-cooled runout by using a pump. If none of the above issues may have caused Fred's increased bitterness, is it possible that there is a perceived increase in bitterness due to the increased hop 'character'? cheers, Dave Riedel Victoria, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 17:45:48 -0800 (PST) From: RI_homebrewer <ri_homebrewer at yahoo.com> Subject: re: Woodstock Inn Hi All, In HBD #4944, Craig Cottingham from Olathe, KS asked about the Woodstock Inn in North Woodstock, NH (http://www.woodstockinnnh.com/). I've never stayed there (we usually stay a few miles up the road at http://www.indianheadresort.com/), but I have been there a couple times for food and beers. The food is very good and the menu quite extensive (it's online if I remember correctly). They usually have about 6 beers on tap. Very well made and very close to the advertized styles. The APA/IPA, brown ale, and oatmeal stout are my personal favorties. I'm pretty sure they brew on a Pugsley/Austin brewing system, but I don't think they use the Ringwood yeast strain. There are many, many, family oriented summertime attractions in the immediate area. Such as: Clark's Trading Post, Lost River gorge, the Flume, and the Basin. Google will get you more info on any of these. A similar bed-and-breakfast-with-a-brewpub in the same area is the Moat Mountain Smokehouse in North Conway, NH(http://www.moatmountain.com/). They are also well worth checking out, either for staying there or just dinner/beers. There is also a place just up the road that has a good selection of local/regional beers on tap (http://www.tuckermanstavern.com/index.html). Jeff McNally Tiverton, RI (652.2 miles, 90.0 deg) A.R. South Shore Brew Club Return to table of contents
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