HOMEBREW Digest #4953 Wed 15 February 2006

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  Re: overcarbonation ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Re: warm pitching/hop poles ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Re: Percent of Rye... (Petr Otahal)
  re: O2, cell membranes & more ("steve.alexander")
  Why ask rye? (Glyn Crossno)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:15:45 +1030 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> Subject: Re: overcarbonation On Monday, 13 February 2006 at 21:37:08 -0600, KEITH R BUSBY wrote: > I have two batches which turned out to be quite overcarbonated after > bottling. What to do? Open them, leave for ? hours and recap? Anyone > else done this? Certainly you're not the first person to overcarbonate his beer :-) What you do now depends mainly on how overcarbonated it is: 1. If it's really, really high, you'll need to let off the pressure. Your idea sounds good, but I have no idea how long to leave them for. I'd be inclined to chill to about between 5 and 10 <insert degree sign here>C (9 and 18 <insert degree sign here>F) cooler than how you like to drink the beer and leave for a while. The lower temperature will ensure that it's still properly carbonated at drinking temperature. I've never had to resort to this, so don't rely on the details. 2. If it's less overcarbonated, but you're afraid of bottle bombs, just keep it really cool. I currently have a Wei<insert German ss character here>bier which ended up rather overcarbonated. It should be pretty heavily carbonated anyway, but this one takes a couple of minutes settling before I can get it all into one glass. Again, the low temperature helps (I have it round freezing). Greg - -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:23:09 +1030 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> Subject: Re: warm pitching/hop poles On Tuesday, 14 February 2006 at 15:40:00 -0500, steve.alexander wrote: > > [good stuff about yeast competition and pitching temperatures dropped] > > On hops supports - NO !!!! I don't think guy-wired PVC > will support much hops. FWIW I used guy-wired electrical > conduit tripods (1.5 inch the thick walled stuff) and it did a fine > job till late summer when the hops were full leaved and the first big > wind bent the conduit up like pretzels. This is sort of amazing since > I can't bend this stuff - major force from the wind. My hunch is that > the PVC will crack under a good wind load. I use baling twine (nylon, I suppose). If you have horses and feed them hay, you'll have lots of this stuff left over. It's flexible and strong; I can't begin to imagine it failing under strong winds (which we get here too). Greg - -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:31:50 +1100 From: Petr Otahal <petr.otahal at aardvark.net.au> Subject: Re: Percent of Rye... Hi Mike, I have used 53% malted Rye in a Roggenbier. Was a very oily mash and had to use heaps of rice hulls to get the sparge to flow. Cheers Petr Michael Eyre wrote: >What's the most percentage of a grain bill you've ever used with Rye? >I'm thinking of a huge Rye beer, and wanna know what the upper limit, >percentage wise, might be for use of Rye. Ideas? > >Mike - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.5/256 - Release Date: 10/02/06 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:59:53 -0500 From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: re: O2, cell membranes & more Frederik writes, << I don't have the reference at hand but I recall another paper where it was confirmed in one specific test that with the proper timing, and control of the aeration, you could reduce the ppm value from 16 to 8 ppm and still end up with the same membrane quality. This indicates that a lot of the oxygen is somehow wasted, [...] >> I recall reading this perhaps in one of Kathrine Smart's annual yeast research books. Another point is that all the O2-req lipids at conventional yeast pitching rates require only ~2ppm of O2 so there is a lot of inefficiency which remains unexplained. As background, squalene is a precursor to all sterols, but to convert squalene to sterol requires O2 and energy. As far as sterol creation and "timing" of O2, Quain published a paper in JIB 1988 which notes that a decrease in the yeast storage carbohydrate glycogen is strongly correlated to sterol production in yeast. It seems likely the two are linked. Yeast accumulate storage carbohydrates throughout the log phase of growth, but also as a spurt at the point of flocculation. If you create a healthy anaerobic starter, then these yeast should be full of squalene and glycogen. If you expose such a slurry to O2 it begins rapidly decomposing the glycogen and producing sterol. This is one reason that the iodine test for yeast glycogen is a crummy test unless you keep the O2 away. Oxygen triggers this conversion so long as the squalene & glycogen are present. Anyway if your yeast starter is healthy & anaerobically finished then dropped into aerated wort (this probably applies to dry yeast too), then the yeast rapidly converts all the squalene&glycogen to to sterol. One or the other will drop low within abt 2 hours, and the levels only increase slowly throughout fermentation. Your best bet for oxygen utilization is very early on and then again long after 2 hours and I'd suggest 6+ hours. If your yeast is aerobically grown (say freshly off a stir plate) then it probably already has optimal sterol levels and there is no reason to aerate the wort/beer until 6+ hours after pitching when the yeast squalene & glycogen has started to increase. OTOH there may be no need aerate the wort at all in this case if your yeast have enough O2-lipids! == In a fine list of advantages for cold pitching Chad Stevens includes: << 4. No diacetyl. No need for a diacetyl rest because you've fermented in temperature ranges where the yeast are converting all of the precursors readily. >> I'm not sure I buy that one and would like to hear more on it. I think the major pathway to diacetyl is when pyruvate is converted to alpha-acetolactate on the way to amino acid synthesis, and the alpha-acetolactate is non-enzymatically decarboxylated to diacetyl. I can't see how fermentation temp makes a big difference here. The acetolactate doesn't pool because ... ??why?? -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 07:48:58 -0800 (PST) From: Glyn Crossno <graininfuser at yahoo.com> Subject: Why ask rye? The most I have used is 20% rye. In my experence most people do not even like that much, I do. Keep the grain bed hot. If the mash temps fall to low it is a slow sparge. I find bailing twine perfect for hops. It lasts the full season, but by the next spring you can just pull and break it. And it is VERY cheap at the farmers co-op, buy the BIG ball. Glyn So. Middle TN Return to table of contents
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