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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Herms controller the second (Thomas Rohner)
  Re: Campden/sodium metabisulfite as time saving/2 day brewing aid? (jeff)
  Re: Cherry/Fruit Ale Question ("Eric Denman")
  RE: Cherries in Beer (Mark Nelson)
  Hops Rhizomes in S. Illinois ("SLRJK")
  HERMS controller ("Peed, John")
  Re;  Campden and metabisulfite ("William Frazier")
  Propane stove safety (tpunk)
  RE: Campden/sodium metabisulfite as time saving/2 day brewing aid? ("Jason Gross")
  MHTG 19th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition (Eric Schoville)


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Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 09:00:08 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Herms controller the second

Hi Ben
You heard a lot about Triacs and SSR's now. Normally a temp controller 
has a DC signal for heating. This is a so called open collector output 
(most of the times), that means it can raise the voltage to close to 12 
or 24 volts. It has a current rating in the 100 to 200 mA range. So you 
could hook up a couple of SSR's to it.(you only need one or two) These 
PID temp controllers are proportional in the way as they switch the 
load(heater) on and off with the correct pulse width. Since this heating 
stuff is rather slow in reaction, they work different than a lamp 
dimmer. That's called pulse packet modulation.(if my english hasn't 
failed me) It's important, that your driver(built in or SSR) switches 
while the voltage is close to zero, otherwise nobody in your vincinity 
can use a tv, radio or puter. But most of the modern day SSR's will take 
care of that. By the way, you will have to take a rather thick cabling 
in order to get 40 Amps through. Your standard PC power cable will only 
be good for 10 Amps or so.

Cheers  Thomas



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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 04:36:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: jeff at henze.us
Subject: Re: Campden/sodium metabisulfite as time saving/2 day brewing aid?

Brian asks about AG brewing over 2 days....

Brian:
I have not tried campden tabs, so on that I can't comment. But I've split
my batches over two days quite a few times - actually I prefer it. There
are a couple of ways to do it:

1) Overnight mash: I've made some nice beers by hitting my strike
temperature just before I went to bed and letting it go until I finish the
process in the morning. I use an insulated cooler to mash, so in the
morning it's still quite warm, and definately done converting.

2) Hold the wort overnight: A few times it just got too late, so I put the
wort in a kettle and left it on my back porch (covered) overnight to
finish the next day. Once I boiled it before I left it sit, other times I
didn't bother with the boil first. It was fine all those times. I suppose
that if you wanted it to sit for an extended period, you could boil and
cover. Bacteria growth would be minimum in that situation. I clamp the lid
with vise-grips to keep animals out.

3) The 24 hour mash: No, this probably doesn't work quite like you'd like
:) Things got busy in the middle of a batch and I wasn't able to get back
to it for 24 hours and the mash had soured on me. It also stuck to an
unbelevable degree. HOWEVER, if I had the time, I would have still sparged
it and boiled it - it would have been bacteria free after the boil, but I
would like to have tasted how the sourness blended with the flavor of the
beer (it was a wheat). If I attempt a "sour mash" again, I'll have to be
prepaired to deal with the massivly stuck sparge I anticipate now.

Now I generally plan on doing a brewing session overnight. Setup and do as
much of the mashing as I can the first night, then wake up early before
the family and finish up.

- --Jeff


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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:30:26 -0400
From: "Eric Denman" <edenman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cherry/Fruit Ale Question

Michael

fwiw, I recently brewed a Cherry Dubbel (adapted from the excellent
Radical Brewing book by Randy Mosher http://www.radicalbrewing.com/ ),
and, as I live in an area where sour cherries are quite difficult to
find, I turned to the internet.  I found a few places that would ship
them fresh, but the shipping costs were through the roof, so I ended
up going with dried cherries for the sour portion:

http://www.simply-natural.biz/Eden-Dried-Cherries.php

For a 5-gal batch, I used 24oz of the dried montmorency cherries, and
2lbs of sweet/bing cherries from the supermarket.  I would recommend
pitting the fresh cherries (if you use them), and blending the whole
thing up in a food processor or blender.  I omitted this step, and I
don't think I got as much cherry character as I was looking for.  I
hydrated the sour cherries prior to using them.

People with more experience with cherries might be able to offer more
guidance, but those are my two cents.  Does anyone know approximately
how much of the sugar from a cherry gets fermented by a normal ale
yeast?  I was trying to figure out how much gravity the cherries
contributed to my batch, but I wasn't able to find any hard numbers
anywhere

cheers,
Eric
[425.7, 121.1deg] AR - Brewing in the heart of Washington, DC

- ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 19:08:19 -0500
> From: Michael Lindner <mikell at optonline.net>
> Subject: Cherry/Fruit Ale Question
>
> My brew buddy and I are looking to brew a cherry  ale. We've come across
> various recipes, and there seems to be quite a bit of variation on how
> muhc
> and of what to add to get cherry flavor. The recipe we've been leaning
> towards is "Cherries Jubilee" from "The Homebrew Recipe Guide", but have
> been
> unable to find a source for sour cherries. We can get unsweetened sour
> cherry
> juice, but have no idea how juice compares to adding whole fruit in beer.
>
> Any guidelines, anecdotes or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> - --
> Michael Lindner
>



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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:04:02 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Mark Nelson <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Cherries in Beer

Michael asked about the use of sour cherries in beer. I can't 
provide too much info, but I do have a source for dried sour
cherries. 

Country Ovens 
(http://www.countryovens.com/cherrystore/driedfruit.html) 
has 'pillow packs' of dried Door County, Wisconsin, sour cherries. 
I've used them in meads with good success. Somewhere on 
their web site they mention the ratio of their dried 
cherries to fresh, which I think is 1/8th lb dried to 1 lb fresh.
I calculated the amount to use from this information 
and my original recipe.

Hope this helps.

Mark Nelson
Atlanta






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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:46:30 -0500
From: "SLRJK" <slrjk at egyptian.net>
Subject: Hops Rhizomes in S. Illinois

Help,
	I'm being taken over by hops!  Actually, I need to move the hops I have and
there are WAY too many.  I have Cascade and Nugget.  You can come dig some
and take them on your merry way...but I would certainly take a sample of
your homebrew.  If someone else is interested, I can send them to you if you
pay postage.  Just let me know.

Steve in S. IL (Near Carbondale)
slrjk at egyptian.net
- --
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 3/31/2006



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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:04:21 -0700
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: HERMS controller


Ben asks about a controller with triac outputs.  Triacs switch AC, so
that's fine as long as you can find an external relay (or relays, solid
state or otherwise) that can handle 50 amps at 220 volts and can switch
AC with an AC control signal.  OK, so it's more like 40 amps, but you
need a little headroom.  

If you're asking if you absolutely need external relays of some sort,
then the answer is absolutely yes, unless you have some monster
industrial controller that's capable of accepting, what, 8 gauge wire?
And switching 50 amps.  At 9 kw, you're working with some pretty serious
power.  The typical controller has light duty outputs that are intended
to control heavy duty relays to switch the actual power that goes to the
elements.  If you use solid state relays, you will probably need to
mount them on heat sinks.

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN




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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:17:36 -0500
From: "William Frazier" <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re;  Campden and metabisulfite

Brian, use Campden or a metabisulfite salt to rid your water of chlorine and 
chloramine.  I think potassium metabisulfite crystals are easier to use 
because you don't have to crush Campden tablets.  I put 1/4 tsp in 10 
gallons of brewing water.  But, I would not use sulfite to prevent or delay 
bacterial growth in wort that is to be boiled the next day.  The pH of wort 
is too high for reasonable amounts of sulfite to be effective.  You would 
have to add so much you would definitely taste or smell sulfite...a burnt 
match aroma.

If you want to mash one night a brew the next night I would mash, sparge and 
heat the wort to near boiling.  Then shut the heat off, cover the kettle and 
turn off the lights.  Next day heat up to a boil and finish the beer.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA


 .







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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:02:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: tpunk at riseup.net
Subject: Propane stove safety

Howdy,
First, thanks for the thermometer recommendations!  I'm on the path to a
better thermometer.  I did heat my pyrex thermometer for several hours and
evaporated the water that got into the coil, and it works decently well
again, but I think I'm going to go for a waterproof thermometer so I can
have it dipped in my mash and continually monitor the temp.

However, I've read several recommendations to use a propane powered stove
to boil or to heat a hot liquor tank.  Do people really do this? 
Particularly, does anyone do this inside their home?  I'm under the
impression that propane is very dangerous to keep inside because it is
heavier than air and any leakage at all will seep into your basement
without you knowing, and when your heater pops on.... a bad scene ensues. 
I need a more powerful flame than my home stove, but I'd be very worried
about operating a propane stove in my house.  I don't have a garage... and
doing it all outside just seems kinda silly.  So my question is:  Does
anyone have a different set up that produces a good enough flame to make
ten gallon batches (i'm looking ahead) or any suggestions on how to avoid
propane?  I was thinking about trying to set up another attachment to my
natural gas line which I could attach a portable stove to that has a
bigger burner than my home stove, but I'd have to research that a bit as
I've never messed with the natural gas lines before.

Thanks!
Tim McMahon





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Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 10:16:35 -0600
From: "Jason Gross" <jrgross at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Campden/sodium metabisulfite as time saving/2 day brewing aid?

Brian asks, "But, just how effective is sodium metabisulfite at sanitizing,
compared to iodophor, etc...?"

I say it's not.  I wouldn't bet the farm, because it might work.  Wikipedia 
says "Campden tablets...are...used primarily in winemaking and beer-making 
to kill certain bacteria and to inhibit the growth of most wild yeast."  I 
would bold, underline, capitalize, and italicize "certain" and "most" if the 
HBD would let me.  Does anyone know the mechanism that would explain this?  
I have some grapes growing and would really like to get a better feel for 
this.

I'll list couple personal examples that fit in with Wikipedia's assessment.  
Several years ago, I used campden tablets with peach must, and they seemed 
to inhibit the fermentation as expected.

Fast forward to a couple years ago, I pressed about 20 gallons of apple 
juice to make some cider and cyser.  This was not done in a day.  So I 
thought, "I'll just add some campden tablets to the juice and press the rest 
of the apples next weekend."  Next weekend came and the juice pressed the 
previous weekend was happily fizzing and fermenting.  There was no pellicle 
or mold growing on the top, so I just let the wild beasts do their work.  
The story has a happy ending, however, as the resulting product was very 
tasty.  As a side note, I added the cider yeast from White Labs to the 
freshly pressed juice, which was notably different but also good.

This is the home vintner's digest, right?

Confused in Mandan, ND,
Jason Gross
[892.8, 296.2deg] AR




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Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 11:23:38 -0500
From: Eric Schoville <eric at schoville.com>
Subject: MHTG 19th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition

Dear Homebrewers:

The Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild is proud to sponsor the 19th
Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition.  Homemade beers will be
evaluated by the trained palates of experienced beer judges.  Beer
evaluation sheets will be returned to every entrant with helpful
comments and advice.  Awards will be presented in five categories.  The
Best of Show beer will receive the coveted WOOLY MAMMOTH plaque.  The
HAIRLESS MOUSE plaque awarded to the winner of the CMS category.  Come
to the competition to participate in the homebrew exchange and meet
other brewers and beer lovers.

The competition is sanctioned by the Beer Judge Certification Program
and will follow its competition procedures.  Each beer will be evaluated
according to Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) style guidelines as
indicated by the brewer.  Please contact us if you are interested in
judging or stewarding (see below).

When: Saturday, May 6th

Where:  Ale Asylum, 3698 Kinsman Blvd., Madison, WI 53704

Entry Requirements: Three 12 ounce or larger bottles per entry.  Bottles
and caps should have no labels or identifying marks.  Attach one
completed entry form to each bottle with a rubber band.  Include an
entry fee check payable to the Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild.

Entry Fee:  $5 per entry
Entry Form: http://mhtg.org/contests/2006%20Big&HugeEntry.pdf

Categories:
       Big Ale (Original Specific Gravity: 1.050 to 1.060)
       Big Lager (1.050 to 1.060)
       Huge Ale (>1.060)
       Huge Lager (>1.060)
       CMS (Ciders, Meads & Sakes) (>1.050)

Prizes will be awarded to all place winners in each category.

Entry Deadline: Deliver entries to Big & Huge Competition, c/o Ale
Asylum, 3698 Kinsman Blvd, Madison, WI 53704 until Thursday, May 4th.
Affix a copy of the registration form to each bottle with a rubber
band.  Any questions?  Contact Mark Alfred, or Mark Schnepper (see below)

About the Club: The Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild, Ltd. is a
nonprofit club devoted to the brewing and appreciation of well-made
beers.  Visit our website for more information:
http://mhtg.org/contests/BigNHuge2006.html

Corporate Sponsors: Ale Asylum; All About Beer Magazine; Beersmith;
Briess Malt and Ingredients Company; Cynmar Corporation; Freshops; Hop
Union CBS LLC; Logic Inc.; Glasses, Mugs and Steins; Malt Advocate
Magazine; Midwest Supplies; Siebel Institute of Technology; Sierra
Nevada Brewing Company; White Labs Inc.; Williams Brewing Company

For further information, contact:
Mark Alfred at (608) 217-4160, mailto:hulsie2002 at yahoo.com
Mark Schnepper at (608) 882-4523, mailto:mschnepper at yahoo.com



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