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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Aluminum Kegs(OH NO! NOT AGAIN!) (Jim Griggers)
  Foxx (Rick Myers)
  M&F Yeast Question (Jim Griggers)
  kegs and O rings (John E. Greene)
  Homebrew Digest #500 (john_cotterill)
  Re: Keg Questions (Chris Shenton)
  the evolution of taste (long) (florianb)
  Going to GERMANY! (Fred Condo)
  Taste the Difference (Norm Hardy)
  Germany, Part 1 (Norm Hardy)
  Racking off the trub (Chuck Coronella)


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Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 90 10:04:26 EDT
From: Jim Griggers <brew at ncrmud>
Subject: Aluminum Kegs(OH NO! NOT AGAIN!)


Lord knows I don't want to start another debate about stainless steel
kegs vs. aluminum kegs.  A couple of days ago however, I went over to
a friend's house to share a couple of my homebrews, and mentioned I was
trying to get a stainless keg for my brewpot.  His response was, "When did
they start making stainless kegs?"

You see, years ago (1955-57), he worked for Reynolds Aluminum and was
in the reserch lab.  They would study kegs that had been returned with holes 
in them.  Corrosion from the inside out.  It turned out that the holes
were caused by the caustic cleaning solutions (powder residue?) that had
been left in the kegs after they left the brewery.  I think their solution
was to suggest more thorough rinsing before filling the kegs with beer!  I'm
sort of glad I wasn't old enough to drink beer back then, but I wonder if
they are any better with their processing today.

So you see, at some time in the past, at least some beer kegs were aluminum.
I have no idea if Reynolds still makes kegs, or whether any of the old ones
would be available now.

JUST A DATA POINT!  I KNOW I AM GOING TO BE SORRY I BROUGHT IT BACK UP.


     Jim Griggers                 * * * * *
     brew at ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM  *     *
     408 Timber Ridge Dr.           *   *
     West Columbia, SC             * * *
     29169                        *   * 


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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 90 9:25:48 MDT
From: Rick Myers <cos.hp.com!hpctdpe!rcm at hp-lsd>
Subject: Foxx
Full-Name: Rick Myers

Mike Schmidt (314) 872-3168 <schmidt at aec830.mdcbbs.com> writes:
>Subject: Keg Questions

>Regarding the home brew kegging system sold by Foxx as a complete kit.  I am
>slightly concerned by Foxx's photo of the kit in their 90-91 catalog as it
>shows a CO2 pressure regulator with only *one* pressure gauge (dispensing
>pressure I believe).  A question from a neophyte keg user is; how important is
>it to know both the cylinder pressure and the dispensing pressure?

I believe for $7 or $8 more, Foxx will sell you a double regulator system...

Rick

- -- 

*===========================================================================*
Rick Myers
Hewlett-Packard Colorado Telecommunications Division
5070 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO  80919 (719) 531-4416
INTERNET: rcm at hpctdpe.col.hp.com
*===========================================================================*
Disclaimer:  standard

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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 90 11:39:13 EDT
From: Jim Griggers <brew at ncrmud>
Subject: M&F Yeast Question


A little history.  When I started brewing last summer (1989), I used
Munton & Fison dry yeast.  It was the only yeast available from the 
local homebrew supply house.  I used this last summer and fall.  In
January 1990 I decided to try a liquid yeast.

I have been using Wyeast #1338 for the last several batchs.  This is
from one package that I started a culture from and stored
the slants in the refrigerator.  I am always amazed at how such a small
drop of yeast from the inoculating loop can grow so fast into such a
mass for pitching.

Anyway, this yeast seems to form a very thick top layer of yeast foam
that rises up out of the primary.  I wasn't prepared for this since this
was the first time I had used the liquid yeast in hot weather.  The primary
was a 7.5 gallon plastic bucket with a lock attached to a hole drilled in
the top.  Pushing foam out of a lock is a lot harder that CO2, and the top
of the bucket was all bulging out.  I attached a tube to the center post
of the air lock and lead this to a pot of water.  After a day the foam
went down and I racked to a glass carboy.  It is still bubbling away after
almost 2 weeks, and the room temp is almost 84. (I am working on getting
a beer fridge)

I decided to try a little experiment, so I made up another batch of beer
and used an old pack of M&F yeast(had been refrigerated).  It starts
out like gangbusters, bubbling gas out of the air lock in only 5 hours.
This batch is fermenting in my new(used) 7 gallon glass carboy. (I love this
and am not going back to plastic)  The foam on top however, is just an
inch thick and has no yeast in it to speak of.

(Now after I have beaten around the bush):

What type of yeast is the M&F yeast?  It doesn't say it is ale yeast,
but from everything I have read it almost certainly is since it came
from Britain.

If you have used Wyeast #1338, and have fermented at high temperatures,
how long did the fermentation take?  The last time I used it, the room
temp was around 65 and the beer stayed in the secondary for about 1 month.

     Jim Griggers                 * * * * *
     brew at ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM  *     *
     408 Timber Ridge Dr.           *   *
     West Columbia, SC             * * *
     29169                        *   * 


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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 90 09:23:30 -0700
From: jeg at desktalk.desktalk.com (John E. Greene)
Subject: kegs and O rings

Mike Schmidt writes:

>Regarding the home brew kegging system sold by Foxx as a complete kit.  I am
>slightly concerned by Foxx's photo of the kit in their 90-91 catalog as it
>shows a CO2 pressure regulator with only *one* pressure gauge (dispensing
>pressure I believe).  A question from a neophyte keg user is; how important is
>it to know both the cylinder pressure and the dispensing pressure?

Not very.  All you really care about is the dispensing pressure.  Although
everyone I know that has ordered the system from Foxx has bought the dual
gage regulator.  I guess they just like to see what's going on.

>One last keg question. How much value is added by "William's unique lid sealing
>O ring", which is advertised to seal tightly at even the lowest dispensing
>pressure?

I never really thought that it made much difference until recently when I 
bought two reconditioned pepsi kegs from Fun Fermentations in Orange California.
At $35 each it was a reasonable deal.  I also have two kegs I bought from 
Williams that I have been using for the past year or so.  With the William's 
kegs I never have to worry about the keg sealing.  I just close it up and set
it in a cool dark place to carbonate for a week before putting it in the fridge.
The lids fit extra tight with the larger O ring.  I kegged my first batch in 
a pepsi keg on Tuesday and without pressurizing the keg the lid would leak.
Even then it took several trys to get the lid just right so I wouldn't get
little bubbles around the seal area when I applied pressure.  My next order to
William's will definitely include two O rings.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John E. Greene             If your feet smell and nose runs.... 
Sr. Staff Engineer                                     You're upside down.
Desktalk Systems Inc.      uucp: ..uunet!desktalk!jeg
(213) 323-5998             internet:  jeg at desktalk.desktalk.com

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Date:        21 Sep 90 09:24 -0800
From: john_cotterill%40 at hpd500.desk.hp.com
Subject:     Homebrew Digest #500

Can we get a notes group working on this subject???
John C.


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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 90 13:33:25 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Keg Questions

"Mike Schmidt (314) 872-3168" writes:
> Regarding the home brew kegging system sold by Foxx as a complete kit.  I am
> slightly concerned by Foxx's photo of the kit in their 90-91 catalog as it
> shows a CO2 pressure regulator with only *one* pressure gauge (dispensing
> pressure I believe).

For an additional $6, Foxx will sell you double-guage regulator instead. I
checked yesterday.

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Date: 21 Sep 90 13:02:47 PDT (Fri)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: the evolution of taste (long)

To direct some thoughts toward sponsoring race cars I offer the following
long thoughts.


John Steinbeck said, in Cannery Row , "No one has studied the psychology 
of parties."  Well, I claim, "No one has studied the psychology of beer 
taste, either."  I have a confession to make:  I've been drinking 
Budweiser lately.  Please allow me to develop this.

In the beginning, I drank Coors and Busch.  Then I moved from the 
Midwest to the Pacific Northwest and begain drinking Lucky Lager.  Then 
I got loose bowels and switched to Rainier.  Later, I moved to Germany 
and enjoyed Bavarian Lager.  When I Yankee'd back home, the micro brew 
revolution had begun, so I started in on the likes of Red Hook, Widmer, 
and Rogue River.  Then I discovered home brewing...I figured out how I 
could spend $10 and get something really good besides fried chicken out 
of my kitchen.  I thought, "This is great, now I can spend less on micro 
brews."  But then a series of strange things happened...

After two years of home brewing, I switched to liquid yeast, full grain 
mash recipes, and temperature control.  Then I stopped buying micro 
brews altogether, and enjoyed home brewed beers with careless abandon.

Some time later, I went back into a local micro, had a pint of whatever, 
and got a headache.  Then I went to a different pub in Corvallis, had a 
pint of Widmer Weizen (the bartender stuck a lemon in it), and then 
another, and came to the conclusion that it hardly resembled the weizen 
beers I had in Germany, and that my own weizen beer brewed at home had 
better taste, and was closer to the style than what I paid $2.20 a pint 
for. The next morning, I had a headache.

The local beer blurbs from Portland contain articles based on the 
blabbering of self-proclaimed brew masters from the likes of Full Sail 
and Portland Brewing.  They claim that the Pacific Northwest water is 
"perfect for brewing ales."  In truth, it's perfect for nothing.  It 
contains very little minerals.  Thus, it can be tailored to "imitate" 
certain ale styles.  This is one example of how micro brewers are using 
near-falsehoods to market their products.  There are many others.  So 
how is this different from what the big boys do when they sponsor cars?  
At least Schludwiller costs less than $2.20 per pint for drinkable lies.  
I understand that brewing equipment is expensive.  I priced some 
recently.  But for the price, then one should get something really, 
really good.  Very few micro brews are.  So how are they any better than 
their big brothers?

Two weeks ago, I took a vacation in Northern Central California.  I went 
to my brother's farm.  He has a second refrigerator in the barn filled 
with Budweiser.  We talked mechanics, family history, how to grow corn, 
politics, why it doesn't rain anymore in California, and which beer is 
best to drink on a hot afternoon.  There was a little self-righteousness 
thrown in for good measure.  The conversation was good, the air was 
clean, the beer was right on target.

Last week I went to a fish house with a German friend here from 
Stuttgart.  We went into the bar to order a drink.  I remarked that he 
could now order a weizen beer brewed right here in the Pacific 
Northwest.  He replied, "I tried it a few days ago in Portland.  I'll 
have a Budweiser."  We both ordered Budweisers.  It went well with the 
fish.  We had a good time.  I didn't have a headache the next day.

At home, I have two kegs of home brew on tap and the rest of the 
refrigerator is filled with Blitz Weinhard.  You can get Blitz only in 
Oregon.  It's malty, hoppy, straightforward, no lies, headache-free corn 
beer.  At $3.50 per 12 pack of bottles, you can't beat the price.  I 
almost never buy micro beer anymore.  I don't see any good reason to.

Florian, the redeemed


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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 90 20:37:40 PDT
From: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com (Fred Condo)
Subject: Going to GERMANY!

Background: I'm going to the ICIS (International Conference on Info. Systems)
in Copenhagen in December. Being a poor student, I decided to find the
cheapest way to get to Europe, which is to fly to Frankfurt, Germany (I need
to do personal battle with the Swiss bureacracy, so I need to hang out in
Europe for a couple weeks anyway, so I'm getting a railpass). Anyway, the
upshot being that I will be in Germany and environs for about 2 and a half
weeks before the conference.

So... GERMANY, land where beer is the national drink. I would like to hear
from any other beer aficianado who, by chance, will also be in Germany and/or
Denmark in December (3rd through the 27th).

Barring that, I would like to hear from anyone who's been there or from anyone
who can tell me what beer-producing locales I absolutely must not miss.
Replies directly to me, please, summary forthcoming. Prosit!
*...........
 Fred Condo.     Pro-Humanist BBS: 818/339-4704, 300/1200 bps
 INET: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com     BitNet: condof at clargrad
 matter: PO Box 2843, Covina, CA 91722   Amer. Online: FredJC



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Date: Sat, 22 Sep 90 19:43:13 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Taste the Difference

Here is a promo for a beer festival of sorts in Seattle on Sunday, Sept 30.

From 2 to 6 p.m. the 2nd annual "Taste the Difference" will take place.
Ten regional microbrewers will have one of their beers on tap for sampling.
Designated drivers get in free.

Price is something like $6 for 5 glasses of beer, $9 for all ten (use the
designated driver).  The glass size is I'm sure less than a pint.  Food 
and a homebrewing lecture are also on the docket.

Where:  the Phinney Neighborhood Center on 65th and Phinney Way N., just
up the hill from Green Lake.


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Date: Sat, 22 Sep 90 19:39:25 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Germany, Part 1

Here is the long awaited (long avoided actually) summary of a homebrewer's
trip to Germany from July 8 - 31 of this year.

After having gone in 1984 and 1987 I was very anxious to try the beers
that got me interested in homebrewing (in 1985) and fascinated with
pilseners (1987).

I traveled and had the beers of five major cities:  Hamburg, Bonn,
Nuernberg, Munich, and Duesseldorf.

Today I will discuss the beers of Hamburg.

In the north of Germany, Hamburg is a seaport town with population 
slightly more than 1 million.  The pilsener is the beer of choice.
Specific gravity of 1.045 - 1.050 and HIGHLY hopped, these beers can
wow or depress depending on your orientation.

This time around, my taste buds found the pilseners to be quite bitter
on the tongue but wonderfully aromatic to the nose.  The beer says
"quality" in the art of brewing.  

The old saw about a tap pilsener being no good if served in less than five
minutes is widely accepted here.  One beer took ten minutes as the barkeep
patiently added more foam every 90 seconds or so.  Ahh, it makes one
appreciate the wait when the nectar touches the lips.

Homebrewers would have to use alot of German style hops in the boil, and
a fair amount in the finish to capture the bitter but aromatic character.
The key here is low alpha acid hops.

My favorites in Hamburg were Moravia Pils, Ratsherrn Pils, Warsteiner,
Astra Urtyp Pils, Flensburger Pilsener, and Holstein Alcohol-Free Pils.

Of course, one MUST have these beers on tap to get the best of Germany.

Most bars had more than one beer on tap, typically an Alt beer or Kolsch.
But the pilsener sits on the throne of Hamburg beers.

Homebrewer hints:  to make a pilsener at home requires proper fermentation
temperature control and at least 30 days.  A long boil of 90 minutes is
necessary (I think) to get a sparkling wort.  Of course, liquid yeast is
vital to ensure a clean tasting beer.  The ultra pale (light) color of the
pilsener is hard to get with extracts (at least for me).  All grain brewing
with almost all pale malt will get the color right on.

Enough....Bonn is next.     Norm Hardy


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Date: Sat, 22 Sep 90 19:12 MST
From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Racking off the trub

Howdy:

This talk of wort chillers in the last few days has got me thinking.  
Since I'm an extractbrewer and I only boil about 1.5 - 2 gallons, the 
chilled water I've been adding to make up to 5 gallons has taken the 
temperature of the wort to around 80 deg. F.  But Pete Soper's discussion 
of a cold break like a "Boston Snow Storm" got me thinking.  I've never 
really looked for a cold break before.  Well, I just brewed Thursday night, 
and looked for the cold break.  I wouldn't describe it as a Boston snow 
storm, but maybe like a late November snow flurry.  The layer of settled 
trub (?) was about an inch and a half thick in my fermentor!  So I racked 
off the clean wort into another fermentor and finally pitched the yeast.  
I guess the reason I never noticed this before is because my primary 
fermentor has always been a white plastic bucket. (I've just switched to 
glass.)   ;-)

So my question is, how will this beer be different than my previous batches? 
I never bothered to remove the trub before.  (As I recall, Charlie Papazian 
says that breweries go through a lot of trouble to do so, but to not worry 
about it.)  Will this be my first "crystal clear" batch of beer, or will it 
taste better?  The funny thing is, previously, when I racked the beer to a 
secondary, I thought the junk that was left behind was all yeast! ;-)  Now 
I know better.


Thanks for your help,
Chuck

P.S.  You know, one of the best parts of this hobby is that there's always 
something else to learn (at least so far.)

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #502, 09/24/90
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