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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Priming (sandven)
  Sign Me Up Please (Chris Brown)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #493 (September 11, 1990) (SCOTT)
  Northwest beers (Alan Garvey)
  Budweiser,Oxford & Wild Goose (durbin)
  Semper Crystal (Martin A. Lodahl)
  kegs on the cheap (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  recipe for Ken (R. Bradley)
  Trub confusion (Chuck Coronella)
  Germany - Part 2 (Norm Hardy)


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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 90 09:09:30 MDT
From: sandven at hooey.unm.edu
Subject: Priming

Hola - 

	I posted a question about a week ago and didn't get any response 
so here goes again.  I assume that you keggers out there don't prime, so
you can skip this.
	What works best - malt or corn sugar, and how much.  Is there any
difference in sediments, carbonation or head ? I'm about to bottle my fourth
batch and would appreciate any advice that I could get.
	Also - what the hell is this Wyeast (?) and why would it be better
than the EDME dry yeast that I'm using.  I guess I don't understand the
concept of the packet that swells and the steps that you go through before
you pitch the yeast.  Is this Wyeast liquid yeast (?).
	I know I can experiment and find what works for me, but I guess I want
to save some time and money on the process.

				Thanks,

				Steve (sandven at wayback.unm.edu)


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Date:         Tue, 25 Sep 90 11:32:45 EDT
From: Chris Brown <CBO at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Sign Me Up Please


Please sign me up for your home-brew mailing list.  Thanks

CBO at CORNELLC.CIT.CORNELL.EDU

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 90 08:36 PDT
From: SCOTT at VAXT.llnl.gov
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #493 (September 11, 1990)

Please remove my name from the mailing list. Thanks

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 90  12:30:57 EDT
From: Alan Garvey <Garvey at Umbriel.CS.UMASS.EDU>
Subject: Northwest beers

On a recent visit to Seattle I had the opportunity to taste several
Northwest beers.  I won't bore you with all of the tasting details
(especially because most of the beers are unavailable outside of the
greater Seattle area).  There were a few occurrances that I think are
interesting enough to pass along.

My two favorite beers were Sphinx Stout and Pike Place Ale.  The Sphinx
is brewed by Hale's (I think).  I've had it before and remember it as
being somewhat interesting, but nothing really special.  This time I had
it on tap (at Coopers, in Lake City) and at it was fantastic.  It had a
very up-front coffee, roasted aroma and taste with plenty of hops.  It
stood up very well in comparison to a Grant's Imperial Stout.

I have to qualify my liking of the Pike Place Ale.  Again I had it on
tap at Coopers and it was great.  It had a very assertive (you may have
noticed I lean toward less than subtle beers) blueberry-like aroma
with a malty, slightly sweet taste.  It was dark brown in color and had
plenty of body.  The blueberriness reminded me of some Thomas Kemper
beers I've had in the past.

However, I also brought a bottle of the Pike Place Ale back home with
me.  It comes in a really nice, one-of-a-kind Grolsch-like bottle.  The
bottle I bought came from the back of a store refrigerator and was dated
July 20.  It had the same blueberry aroma with a slight burned smell as
well.  The taste had a slight residue of blueberries completely
overwhelmed by what tasted like burned rubber.  It was completely
undrinkable.  I have no idea what could cause such a taste.  I am
somewhat surprised that the Pike Place Brewery people would allow such a
beer to exit the brewery.  I guess it is possible that this was an old
bottle and age had something to do with it, but I can't imagine how a
really strong burned rubber taste would result from aging an otherwise
healthy beer.

All in all the beer-tasting part of my visit was a success.  There
really are a huge number of interesting beers available.  I only managed
to scratch the surface.  People in the Northwest should consider
themselves very lucky.

- --Alan Garvey
  garvey at umbriel.cs.umass.edu

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 90 12:57:35 EDT
From: durbin%cuavax.dnet at netcon.cua.edu
Subject: Budweiser,Oxford & Wild Goose

I have to disagree with Chris about Wild Goose, the Baltimore Brewing 
co., and Sissons; I never had any problems in areas of balance, 
smoothness and body. I believe that the BBC(their pils and dunkels)
 and Sissons(their weizen beer) are of quality and are comparable to the
German brews. Wild Goose is a different situation. At first I didn't 
like it, but after the first brew it left such a distinctive taste 
that it left me wanting more. It is quite different. Anyhow on the 
subject of heangovers I must say that I don't get bad hangovers after 
drinking Goose, which I drink quite regularly. Nothing like comercial 
brews.But then I'm not a bud man; when I do drink it gives me a stomach 
ache, I must be allergic to some ingredient in it. 
 I went to Kentucky last week and found a pleasant brew from Tenessee 
called Market Street Pilsner that was quite tasty and inexpensive, 4.20
a six pack.Highly recomended. For anyone visiting Munich I recomend 
going to the Andechs monestary/brewery and having their doppel bock. 
It is, in my opinion, the best in Munich. Also try Schneiderweiss, 
which is my favorite hefe-weizen and Augustiner export beer.
 Phil
   

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 90 8:27:37 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Semper Crystal

In HOMEBREW Digest #503, Ken Giles, on the brink of leaping into the
all-grain fray, asked:

>	... Would it ever make sense to use crystal malt in a mash?
> Wouldn't the enzymes convert all the residual unfermentables and
> render it ordinary?

It makes all the sense in the world, if you like the taste crystal
malts impart to beer.  While I don't doubt that the enzymes convert
some of the available starches, they won't do much for the existing
sugars and other products.  I frequently use crystal malts in
all-grain beers, both for flavor and color (chocolate malt, for
example, can add a lot of color before its taste becomes
detectable), and simply mash them with the pale malt.  Having as yet
brewed only one batch that did not involve mashing, I really can't
say if the effect is the same as steeping the grain separately.

Tying together the threads of crystal malt and microbrews:  One
night a few weeks ago, while walking back to my lodging after
sampling a brewpub's wares, it suddenly occurred to me that the
reason so many California brewpub ales taste alike is crystal malt
and Cascade hops.  Hasn't this really become too much of a good
thing?  I like both, but their ubiquity is almost enough to send me
back into experimenting with Cluster ...
				- Martin, the Abstainer (from Cascade)
= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 90 14:42:12 EDT
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: kegs on the cheap


In Homebrew Digest #503, Mark Montgomery bemoaned the high prices of
Cornelius kegs and described a place with new kegs for $55 + tax &
shipping.

Just thought I'd point out that there was an add in the latest issue
of Zymurgy (the one that most of us got about a week ago) from a
place in North Carolina called "Alternative Beverage" that advertised
Cornelius kegs (used) for $19.95 each.  They also had glass carboys
at $9.95 and 5# dry malt extract for $12.50.  Might be worth checking
into if you're unhappy about the capital investment required for
kegging.

- ---Mark Stevens
   stevens at stsci.edu


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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 90 17:41:33 CDT
From: bradley at dehn.math.nwu.edu (R. Bradley)
Subject: recipe for Ken

In Digest #503, Ken Giles says:

> I ... am casting about for a recipe that's simple, makes a good pale ale,
> and lets me concentrate on the mashing process. I'd like to attempt a single 
> -step infusion with English malt unless you'd like convince me otherwise.

Good choice, Ken.  It's a refreshing change from the sort of "kitchen
sink" attitudes that most homebrew authors seem to promote.  You'll get
good yield and lots of flavour from English malt, and a one-stage 150
degree mash will work fine.  Try the following for 5 U. S. gallons:

7-8   lb. English 2-row
1/2-1 lb. Crystal Malt (add to mash tun)
3     oz. Fuggles (boil)
3/4   oz. Hallertauer

Sure, sure, I know.  Hallertuaer is not traditional in English Ales.
Nor is a modern piano for Beethoven Sonatas.  But I think Beethoven himself
would have used one if he'd had one.  Add them as follows: 1/4 oz. 30 min.
before the end of the boil, 1/4 oz. 15 min. before, then the last at the
end - no boiling at all.  Let 'em steep 15 minutes.  Actually, almost any
boiling hops will do; I usually mix Northern Brewer with Fuggles or Goldings.
Just  make sure to get .12-.15 oz. alpha acid.

Conversion will probably only take 60 minutes, despite what all the books
say about 90+.  YOU control the body by choosing when to kill the enzyme.
The longer you mash, the fewer the unfermentables.  Why would you bother
adding crystal in the boil when you're dealing with all the other grain 
during the mash...you'll have plenty of work as it is.  The sugars coming 
from the crystal won't be very different from those coming from the pale 
malt, and will account for only a small minority.  Meanwhile, you can get 
all the body you want.  For example, this recipe could give you an OG as 
high as 50, and you'll get an FG as high as 20 if you stop the mash ASAP.
That's a lot of body!

Happy sparging!

Rob (bradley at math.nwu.edu)

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 90 17:12 MST
From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Trub confusion

In digest #502, I asked about racking off the trub:

>	... how will this beer be different than my previous batches? 
>  Will this be my first "crystal clear" batch of beer, or will it 
> taste better?

Martin Lodahl says:

> The sages & pundits insist that it will taste better, and my own
> experience tends to bear this out.  The presence of trub in the

But with this caveat:

> ...[extenuating circumstances] conspired to keep that
> IPA sitting on its trub in the primary for nearly 2 months.  To
> date, it's the best beer I've ever made.  Any conclusions drawn from

Rats!!  What's a novice to believe?  I hate when there isn't a straight 
forward solution.  The only person who feels strongly enough about it to 
respond has had ambiguous experiences.  I guess my conclusion will be to 
follow Charlie Papazian's sage advice: don't worry about it.  (That guy 
doesn't worry about <anything>. ;-)

Dazed and confused (but not worrying),
Chuck

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 90 18:49:18 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Germany - Part 2

The city of Bonn is the present but not-for-long capital of West Germany.
The University of Bonn is internationally known and is quite old.  Without
the political types, the city is best known as the birthplace of Beethoven.

There are 2 breweries in Bonn proper:  the first is Kurfursten, a financially
strapped brewery now only making a Kolsch.  The locals have a slang pun built
around the name which translates to "toilet bowl brush".  The beer wasn't
that bad but was pretty ordinary.  The second brewery is actually a brewpub
that makes a Kolsch-like beer called "Bonnsch", an unfiltered kolsch with
the yeast left (partially) in.  The size of the brewery makes many USA
microbreweries look like A-B in comparison!  No kidding.

What is kolsch:  a top fermented very pale ale, with OG around 1.048, and
lightly hopped.  The beer originated in Cologne (Koln) and there are currently
over 30 breweries making kolsch.  Many are available in Bonn.  The locals
swear by its digestive qualities.  My father-in-law describes it as
"softer" than a pilsener.  It is that, very drinkable, and smooooooth.

In fact, that is the character of German beers that I really noticed this
time around.  Even the ales (kolsch and alt-beer) are coooold conditioned
near 32f for 3 to 4 weeks before serving.  It really rounds out the flavor.
Those of us homebrewers with a fridge should consider putting the secondary
fermenter in for a few weeks to judge the differences.  Author Dave Miller
makes mention of this in his book.

Beers I liked here in Bonn:  Kuppers Kolsch, Fruh's Kolsch, Triumphator
Doppelbock (by Lowenbrau of Munich), Dortmunder Export Union, Veltins Pils.

Homebrew hints:  as mentioned above, cold conditioning of the secondary,
judicious hopping to acheive a balanced flavor, careful mashing to keep 
the grain flavor smooth and not "grainy".

Personally, I didn't think that much of the Kolsch's.  They were smooth
but not very interesting.  They reminded me of a micro-brewery lightly
hopped pale ale, but much smoother.  After a pilsener, the tongue is too
twisted by the bitterness to appreciate the "softer" taste.

Next....Nuernberg....   Norm Hardy


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #504, 09/26/90
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