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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Homebrew In Literature #93 (jonm)
  Re: Germany, part 2: Bonn (Wayne V. Citrin)
  Mead, Cider and medieval drinks... (WITHALL)
  The Trub Crusade (Mike Charlton)
  Re: Northwest Beers (Rick Noah Zucker)
  Is it down? (Oran Carmona)
  Brew Mart "Dry Beer" and the beginner ("W. Gregg Stefancik")
  Mail Order (James Hensley)
  hornet nests (florianb)
  Pilsner and water (florianb)
  kegs and bottles (Bill Crick)
  florians remarks (Jay Hersh)
  Wyeast?  Why not! (Martin A. Lodahl)


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Date: Tue Sep 25 21:27:35 1990
From: microsoft!jonm at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Homebrew In Literature #93

I thought you all might be amused by this excerpt from _The_Great_Shark_
Hunt_, written by Hunter S. Thompson in 1964.  Thompson is describing the
age of the Beat Generation, typified by this story about his friend Willard:

	"Willard arrived shortly after I packed up and left for the East;
	we had a convivial few weeks, and as a parting gesture, I left him
	a five-gallon jug of beer that I did not feel qualified to transport
	across the nation.  It still had a week or so to go in the jug, then
	another few weeks of aging in quart bottles, after which it would
	have had a flavor to rival the nectar of the gods.  Willard's only
	task was to bottle it and leave it alone until it was ready to drink.

	Unfortunately, his thirst threw a heavy shadow on the schedule.  He
	was living on a hill overlooking the southern section of the city,
	and among his neighbors were several others of the breed, mad drinkers
	and men of strange arts.  Shortly after my departure he entertained
	one of these gentlemen, who, like my man Willard, was long on art and
	energy, but very short of funds.

	The question of drink arose, as it will in the world of art, but the
	presence of poverty cast a black light on the scene.  There was,
	however, this five-gallon jug of raw, unaged home brew in the kitchen.
	Of course, it was a crude drink and might produce beastly and
	undesireable effects, but ... well ...

	The rest is history.  After drinking half the jug, the two artists
	laid hands on several gallons of blue paint and proceeded to refinish
	the front of the house Willard was living in.  The landlord, who lived
	across the street, witnessed this horror and called the police.  They
	arrived to find the front of the house looking like a Jackson Pollock
	canvas, and the sidewalk rapidly disappearing under a layer of sensual
	crimson.  At this point, something of an argument ensued, but Willard
	is 6 feet 4, and 230 pounds, and he prevailed.  For a while ..."

I'd quote further, but this is already too long, and you get the idea.
Well?  Did anyone here ever get thirsty enough to start drinking out of
the carboy?  How was it?

	Jonathan


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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 90 08:28:29 MDT
From: Wayne V. Citrin <citrin at boulder.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Germany, part 2: Bonn

(Norm Hardy talks about Bonn beers.)

About the Bonnsch brewpub: I just wanted to mention that the pub serves the
beer in a very distinctive glass that they told me was designed for them by
some famous Italian designer.  It's based on the traditional thin, straight-
sided Bonn beer glass, but it's curved, so it's shaped like a parenthesis.
In the indented side are further indentations for the fingers.  Quite
unusual.  You can also buy the glasses at the pub, for four Marks each.

This brings up the fact that I've seen no discussion of beer glasses here.
Anybody have any opinions?

The main thing I have against the beer in Bonn, is that they insist on serving 
it in 2.5 dl portions. :-)

Wayne Citrin
citrin at boulder.colorado.edu

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Date:    Wed, 26 Sep 90 10:49 EDT
From: <WITHALL%CTSTATEU.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Mead, Cider and medieval drinks...

Greetings,

Does anyone have experience with making a hard cider?  Or and Mead? Or any other
medieval drink?   If so please send some recipes my way...


                                                  - Lisa Withall
                                                    WITHALL at CTSTATEU

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 90 11:45:57 CDT
From: Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: The Trub Crusade

I'm not going to class myself as an expert.  However, I think I've just
squeaked by the novice classification, so maybe I'd better put in my two
cents about trub.  I feel like I've launched a holy war against trub since
I first started racking the wort off the trub.  It made such a great
difference in my beer that I just can not express it in words.  I think
that Papazian may be wrong to suggest not worrying about trub, but I can
see his point.  It's a pain to do and does add an extra risk of infection.
I personally think that it is highly justified though.  Can you make good
beer if you leave the trub in?  I think that it must be so, since people
claim to do it.  My own explaination of this comes from a comment that
Byron Burch (repeatedly) makes.  If a flavour is kept near it's threshold
limit, it will add to the interest of the beer no matter how noxious that
flavour is. In this case, we have a cloying bitterness at the back of the
throat.  With a big bodied beer with alot of hops (eg an IPA), this flavour
may be somewhat masked.  In addition, fusel alcohols add the most
marvelous malty nose to the beer.  If the beer was made with good yeast,
and fermented at relatively low temperatures, the fusel alcohols may be
produced in small enough quantities so that the flavour just adds a bit
of complexity, rather than detracting from the beer.  In this way, you could
produce a beer of excelent quality even though the procedures were not as
good as one might hope.
               Any comments?
                    Mike
                    (The guy who pretends to know what's going on)

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 90 10:18:38 -0700
From: noah at cs.washington.edu (Rick Noah Zucker)
Subject: Re: Northwest Beers

>Date: Tue, 25 Sep 90  12:30:57 EDT
>From: Alan Garvey <Garvey at Umbriel.CS.UMASS.EDU>
>Subject: Northwest beers
>
>On a recent visit to Seattle I had the opportunity to taste several
>Northwest beers.  I won't bore you with all of the tasting details
>(especially because most of the beers are unavailable outside of the
>greater Seattle area).  There were a few occurrances that I think are
>interesting enough to pass along.
>
>My two favorite beers were Sphinx Stout and Pike Place Ale.  The Sphinx
>is brewed by Hale's (I think).  I've had it before and remember it as
>being somewhat interesting, but nothing really special.  This time I had
>it on tap (at Coopers, in Lake City) and at it was fantastic.  It had a
>very up-front coffee, roasted aroma and taste with plenty of hops.  It
>stood up very well in comparison to a Grant's Imperial Stout.

	No, Sphinx Stout is made by Hart Brewing of Kalama, Washington.
They also make the Pyramid Beers (Pyramid, Sphinx - next we'll probably
get a King Tut beer :-)).  IMHO they are one of the two best breweries in
the U.S. (please remember this is just an opinion).  Coopers thinks so
highly of Sphinx Stout that they used it to replace their Guiness tap
according to the local paper.

> <many comment on Pike Place Ale - good on tap, poor in the bottle>

	I have only had it in the bottle (I only go to Coopers if I
can arrange transportation home), and also did not like it.  It is
actually brewed by the proprietor of one of the local homebrew supply
stores, Liberty Malt, which not surprisingly is at Pike Place Market.

						 Rick N. Zucker

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 90 10:31:41 PDT
From: ocarma at unssun.nevada.edu (Oran Carmona)
Subject: Is it down?


Please add me to the HBD mailing list again. I have not received a copy in over
two weeks.
Thanks

ocarma at unssun.nevada.edu   or    ocarma at unssun.uucp

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 90 15:28:29 -0400
From: "W. Gregg Stefancik" <wstef at eng.clemson.edu>
Subject: Brew Mart "Dry Beer" and the beginner

Thus far in my home brewing career, I have only made two 5 gallon batches.
The first batch which was made from a recipe which came with my "starter
kit" turned out wonderful.  The second batch I made was made from a Brew Mart
"Dry Beer" kit.  And it has turned out to be almost undrinkable.  Since I
thought I was much more careful with regard to sanitizing and following good
procedures the second time,  I'm somewhat surprised that the results are
putrid.  Does anyone else have experience with this kit?

Gregg
wstef at eng.clemson.edu

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 90 11:58:53 PDT
From: jpaul at lccsd.sd.locus.com (James Hensley)
Subject: Mail Order


Does anyone have any addresses or phone numbers of mail-order homebrew
suppliers a little closer to me here in San Diego (CA:).  I've been ordering
from sebastian in florida, but the shipping is horrendous (farthest UPS zone)
So, if you would, please enlighten me to some mail order places a little 
closer to me.
Thanks.
	James

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Date: 26 Sep 90 15:39:59 PDT (Wed)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: hornet nests

Ken Weiss found me out when he remarks:

>And by the way, Florian, I bet you were the kind of kid who threw rocks
>at hornets' nests, just to see what happened... I'm kind of partial to
>Blitz-Weinhard myself. How could anyone dislike a beer called Blitz??

Actually, I grew up on a farm in the Ozarks, and yes, I stirred up some
trouble.  I actually used to tie rags onto long poles, dip the rags in
used engine oil, and torch hornet nests.  I've tried to make up for 
those bad little boy days in the past twenty years by donating blood,
contributing to charities, and putting moths outside.  However, I *did*
start home brewing because I wanted to "see what happened".

Florian, the twice redeemed.


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Date: 26 Sep 90 15:49:13 PDT (Wed)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: Pilsner and water

A couple of days ago, John Polstra corrected my statement about the
NW water being perfect for nothing:

>Actually, Florian's statement "it's perfect for nothing" isn't quite
>true.  It's great for Pilsners.  (Oops, there I gave it away.)
>If you're making ales in Seattle (especially if you're mashing), you at
>least want to add something to bring the calcium up to 50-100 PPM.

Yes, John, you are absolutely right.  My water analysis shows a similar
content.  I didn't know why my pilsners came out so well compared to my
ales (some of which have been big disappointments) until I checked the
water analysis.  Since then, I acquired a small balance and began fixing
mineral content.  I was going to write a letter in to the beer blurbs,
but then who would listen to a homebrewer from way out here in central
Oregon anyway?

Florian


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Date: 	Tue, 25 Sep 1990 16:52:08 -0400
From: hplabs!ames!gatech!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: kegs and bottles

About the keggin vs bottling time. I use a plastic
Rotokeg, adn it is a hell of a lot faster than bottling. I can 
empty, clean and fill the keg in about 20minutes! Bottle washing, 
handling, and bottling takes about: 30 minutes to wash bottles
30minutles to bottle batch, and a few extra minutes to clean primary after
using it to mix in priming sugar.
What I have been doing lately is to add enough priming sugar for bottling,
bottle 24 bottles, and put the remaning 3 gallons or so in the keg.
This laeves lots of gas space in the keg, and therefore I don't have
top mess with injecting CO2. The "excess" priming sugar causes lots of
gas to sizzle out of the keg's relief valve, purging the O2 in the large
headspace in the keg. This works well. It also allows direct comparison
of kegged vs bottled beer from one batch. There is a significant
difference, and have given friends both in one night, and some have liked 
one of the "beers" much more than the other!

Regarding pinging a CO2 cylinder to see how full it is, I don't 
believe thsi will work, because I THINK that the CO2 is just compressed
gas whereas the Propane is a liquid in the tank, so pinging works to wee
where the liquid is??

What do I KNow? Bill Crick maker of GroundHog Logger.



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Date: 26 Sep 90 13:57:26 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <75140.350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: florians remarks

Well certainly the micro movement is no paragon of virtue. Yes they too often 
make grandiose claims. And I do agree Bud is a good clean beer. I never 
questioned the ability of AB Brewers. Many people often think that they must be 
bad brewers. Contraire. It takes a great brewer to make a beer with so little 
flavor yet so free of defects (taste Piels or Schmidts with their prevelant 
DMS character compared to the clean crisp BUD). And to make a product so 
consistently at so many different sites is tough too. The problem I have is that
the emphasis is on quality control too much and not on the recipe enough.

I have a taste for real full bodied malty beers. I like amber and dark beers 
especially though I truly thrill to the great full bodied pilsener or kolsch.
Most american beers are decoid of full flavors. So while yes many micros miss
the mark, I think their greatest contribution is the re-eastablishment of a 
wider range of styles, and of an emphasis on beers produced locally and sold 
fresh. Along with the great, you get the good, the bad and the truly ugly.

If you dispose of the whole micro movement because you don't like some of the
beers (or even a majority) you do yourself a disservice in also passing up
the good. I feel that there are still a lot of good micros out there, among the 
growing contingent of them. 

 - Jay H

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 90 15:38:07 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Wyeast?  Why not!

In HOMEBREW Digest #504, Steve asked:

>	Also - what the hell is this Wyeast (?) and why would it be better
>than the EDME dry yeast that I'm using.  I guess I don't understand the
>concept of the packet that swells and the steps that you go through before
>you pitch the yeast.  Is this Wyeast liquid yeast (?).

Yes.  Sold under the brand name "Brewers Choice", it is indeed live 
yeast in a capsule of liquid medium, which in turn is enclosed in a
larger packet of liquid nutrient.  When you're ready for the culture
to begin to grow, you break the inner capsule so the yeasties can
feed.  For a "fast takeoff" after pitching, do this several days
before brewing, and when the packet swells up like the proverbial
football (7 hours to 5 days, depending on packet age and storage
conditions), pitch it into a "starter solution" that is really a
small quantity of a light wort.  You can make this from DME, malt
extract syrup, or by mashing, and it can be canned for later use. 
Its function is to give you a larger colony to pitch into your
"real" wort, and the best time to do so is at or just after high
kraeusen.  

To make the starter solution, I usually boil a little over a quart
of water, and add about 3/4 cup DME and a couple of hop cones (from
sheer superstition).  After about a 20 minute boil, I pour it
through a sanitized strainer & funnel into a sanitized champagne
bottle, the bottle partly immersed in a water bath.  When it's cool,
sanitize the outside of the packet and open a corner CAREFULLY with
sanitized scissors, shake the contents gently, and pour it into the
starter.  Fix an airlock, and brew a couple of days later.

Changing to this stuff made an instantly noticeable change in my
beer.  I'm reluctant to use anything else, any more.

A propos, I'm preparing to brew barleywine (leading a somewhat
chaotic life interfered with brewing it last weekend), and was
"saved" from resorting to Red Star Pasteur Champagne yeast by
stumbling across a fresh box of packets of Wyeast "Vintners Choice"
champagne yeast at my Friendly Neighborhood Retailer's.  I'm now
waiting for the packet to swell, and a thought occurred to me this
morning:  what's in that packet?  I'll bet that rather than the
microwort in the beer yeast packets, it's more like a grape must. 
Stay tuned for a report ...

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #505, 09/27/90
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