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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Eisbock ("Thomas Rohner")
  Czech beer tour ("Dave Burley")
  Re: Tri Clamp pipe (Dion Hollenbeck)
  RE: What to do with a beer that has lots of fusels? (jeff)
  what to do with fusely beer (Matt)
  Safbrew T-58 (Matt)
  Re: What to do with a beer that has lots of fusels? ("steve.alexander")
  Re: Nursing Stout (Andrew Walsh)
  Re: Pre-made sanitary fittings ("Mike Sharp")


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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:58:30 +0200
From: "Thomas Rohner" <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Eisbock

Hello all
i have sent this on august 2. but i sent it as HTML ;-(

here it comes again:

Hello Bill and everyone

i did a Eisbock several years ago. What i did: I brewed a high octane
Doppelbock in the 18 Plato range, let it ferment for 6 weeks, 
transferred it to a clean container 60 l or 16.something gallons.
(We use high density PE containers with a spigot and a 10 inch opening with
screw on cover.
It's easy to get and quite cheap around here, it's mostly used for cider.
After reading several HB books, i thought i need glass fermenters,
but these PE containers prooved to be the right thing for us.
They are very practical, have handles and don't break.)
I cooled it down to -5 C at first to see crystals forming, it was not
enough.
So i cooled down further 1C a day until i saw the first crystals.
I thought it's best to cool down slowly to let the water and beer separate.
I skimmed of the crystals with a sanitized sieve and cooled it down some
more.
I repeated the process, until i had removed around 20% of the volume.
Then i kegged and carbonized it. This beer was quite a blaster, but i only
did it once.
It concentrates every taste, it's a bit hard to predict how it will taste,
since it can put a perfectly balanced brew off balance when concentrated.
If i do it again, i would brew a "lighter" beer to start with, maybe in the
15 Plato OG range.
(By the way isn't it forbidden to do this in your country,
around here it actually is, since it's a form of concentrating alcohol like
distilling.)


Cheers Thomas



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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:21:51 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Czech beer tour

Brewsters:

Good article on Czech beer.

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/08/06/travel/06Beer.html?8dpc
 
The Ultimate Beer Run in the Czech Republic 
By EVAN RAIL

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley



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Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 08:40:27 -0600
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: Re: Tri Clamp pipe


Teddy Winstead said:
 >  I've been brewing with a RIMS setup for quite some time now (since
 > about 1994). Mine is currently some 1.5 inch NPT nipples with a T at one
 > end and an elbow at the other. I got this idea from Dion Hollenbeck, I
 > think. The problem with this setup is that the heating element goes in
 > the T then into the pipe nipple. I also have the wort inflow into the
 > top of the T. This is a fairly common setup if you look at online
 > brewery pics. The problem with this setup is that little bits of grain
 > and some occassional scorched wort get stuck in the end of the T near
 > the base of the element. Over time this will build up and give off
 > flavors and maybe occasionally dump sour bits into your new beer. In
 > fact, the problem with RIMS in general is that the heating element
 > chamber is tough to clean out and dry out even if you recirc cleaning
 > solution after your brew session and attempt to purge it with air or
 > gas.

The problem is not with the design or implementation, but your use of it,
or in this case, your misuse of it.  Probably my fault for not making my
RIMS pages more detailed on use.

What you describe is *exactly* why I tell everyone who asks me directly
about RIMS that after *every* brew, the heater elements must be taken out
of the heater chamber, the elements themselves lightly gone over with a
scotchbrite pad, and a straightened carboy brush run through the heater
chamber itself.  The elements and chamber are then hung up to dry for
several days and not re-assembled until bone dry.  With these
disassembled, getting everything clean and dry is a piece of cake.

Once disassembled, the heater chamber is *easy* to clean.  And, I find
that the chamber itself never gets any crud built up in it that cannot be
removed with a light brushing with hot water only.  Yes, if you try to
accomplish this with clean-in-place techniques, this will fail miserably.
This design is *not* conducive to CIP techniques.

I totally agree with you that clover tri-clamp fittings would make this
job easier, but for those who do not wish to buy these, a large crescent
wrench makes this an easy job.  The heater elements should not be screwed
in too tight anyway, as you do not want to deform the rubber gasket.  They
can *almost* be screwed out by hand, but not quite.  When tightening, I
recommend screwing in until finger tight, then using a wrench to turn 1/4
turn more only.

Thanks for pointing out the deficiency in my explanations.  I will try to
find some time to correct this on my web pages so others do not have to go
through this problem discovery process.

regards,
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen



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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: jeff at henze.us
Subject: RE: What to do with a beer that has lots of fusels?

From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: What to do with a beer that has lots of fusels?

>> I recently made a braggot...
>> ...that seems to have lots of higher alcohols,
>> possibly because of a recent heat wave.
>> What should I do with this brew?

You could just cellar it. I did that with a Pale Ale that got fermented at
too high a temperature with some 2nd hand WLP001 yeast that might have
gone astray. It was horrable, and others agreed with me. You'd swear the
main ingredient was nail polish remover. A little over a year later it
took 3rd place as a Belgium Pale Ale.

- --Jeff H. Canton, MI



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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 08:09:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: what to do with fusely beer

Peter Ensminger is trying to find something to do with a fusely
braggot.  The phrase "fusely braggot" just sounds bad, for one thing.

Anyway, one brainstorm was to add yeast and honey in the hope that the
fermenting yeast would get rid of some of the fusels by esterifying
them.  I doubt this will work because, at least for the numbers I have
seen, even in a normal 5G fermentation the percentage of fusels that
are turned into esters is very very small.  It seems unlikely that this
would be different in an "auxillary" fermentation--my guess is that
he'd end up with even more fusels.

Another brainstorm is trying to "soak" the fusels into oak/charcoal. 
For that matter, is there any substance at all that can be added to
beer that will react preferentially with fusels to produce a (safe)
flavor-neutral or -positive product?  I have no idea myself.

Barring that, I think there are two options.  First, fusel levels could
certainly be reduced by the simplest means: dilution.  Second, one
could attempt to cover up the fusels with strong flavors.  Perhaps a
combination of these simple plans is best.  Assuming he wants to limit
the effort to something short of brewing a "dilution beer," Peter
might, for instance, simply dilute the beer and dry-hop (or dry-herb)
it.  A step further would be to steep a couple pounds of specialty
grains in 2 G of water, add this to the 5G of braggot, and add a yeast
of great character like Safbrew T-58, or a weizen yeast, or even a big
brettanomyces clausseni starter.

Matt




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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 08:35:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Safbrew T-58

I recently used Safbrew T-58 for the first time.  This is a dry yeast
that is advertised as having an estery, spicy, peppery profile.  I
enjoy the convenience of dry yeast, so I was interested to try the only
dry "Belgian" strain I know of.  I haven't seen too much information
posted on this strain anywhere, so I thought I'd post my experience.

Tossing 20 grams (2 packs) into 5 gallons of a wheat beer wort, with no
rehydration and almost no aeration (as the yeast cells are said to be
pretty "well-stocked" when they are dried), fermentation was fast and
strong.  The resulting beer had a lot of very nice tropical fruit
esters and is really one of the better wheat beers I've had.  The yeast
was pitched at 70 degrees F, and the ferment was at 70-74 degrees.  No
yeast nutrients were added.

I don't know the yeast's origin, but the tiny Picobrouwerij Alvinne in
Belgium uses it for some of their beers (as stated on their website).

Matt



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Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 13:37:33 -0400
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: What to do with a beer that has lots of fusels?

Always good to hear from PeterE.

Peter A. Ensminger wrote:
> I recently made a braggot [...]  that seems to have lots of higher 
> alcohols, [...] What should I do with this brew? 
> 1) Add a bunch of herbs and/or spices to cover up the bad taste of the 
> higher alcohols.
It might be possible, but I suspect you'd always know they are there.  As

> 2) Add charred wood staves to the keg to "soak up" the higher alcohols.
This should work, but if you don't want the oak flavor try activated 
charcoal - aquarium supply places carry it.  Not clear what other flavor 
effects this would have.

> 3) Restart the fermentation by adding more honey and yeast. The logic 
> is that this will esterify existing fusels. See the discussion in: 
> http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4459.html#4459-9 and #4459-10
It could work, but I doubt it.   Yeast normally only convert a modest 
fraction of the fusels into esters.   Would a 20-30% reduction in fusels 
(being very optimistic here) solve your problem ?   *MAYBE* you could 
encourage a higher conversion rate by yeast selection, ester enhancing 
fermenting conditions, or by adding carboxylic ester precursors.

 -S




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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 09:41:33 +1000 (EST)
From: Andrew Walsh <awalsh at phys.unsw.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Nursing Stout


> 
> From: Dylan Tack <dylan at io.com>
> 
> I probably won't be the only one to post this, since it's the first
> google result for "beer" and "nursing".  But consuming alcohol is
> likely to be counterproductive:
> http://www.drgreene.com/21_1907.html
> 

Interesting read, Dylan. But I think the research has missed the mark, 
since it only deals with the effects of alcohol. Obviously what is needed 
is some research into the effects of beer.

As David Harsh wrote, it might be compounds in hops that have a benificial 
effect. I for one would like to hear a followup on this!

Later. Andrew xxx



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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:50:32 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pre-made sanitary fittings

Teddy asks about pre-made sanitary fittings and tube

"The problem with this setup is that the heating element goes in the T then
into the pipe nipple."

I'm sure you could order it made up from any one of a number of places (but
not cheaply).  You would actually have the whole heating chamber made out of
butt-welded tubing with ferrules only at the entrance, exit and heater
locations.  This would drastically reduce the number of tri-clamps and
fittings you'd need.  I could recommend someone to do it for you...but have
you considered using Swagelok fittings instead?

I have a similar setup (but with a T at each end and a thermometer in the T
opposite the heater) but the T fittings are 1" Swagelok.  The whole thing
comes apart with a wrench, and since it's not under a lot of pressure, it
doesn't need to be all that tight in the first place (they even make Teflon
ferrules for Swagelok, which doesn't have to be much more than finger
tight).  If you get a reducing Tee, you could use a standard cartridge
heater, and swage it directly into the run end of the T.  A Swagelok fitting
is pretty darn smooth on the inside--no place for solids to get trapped, as
in the case with threaded nipples, couplers and pipe.

Regards,
Mike Sharp

Kent, WA
[1891.3, 294deg] AR



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